Gain skill level

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danielcg
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Gain skill level

Post by danielcg »

In ST Chaos Strikes Back and Interplay DMII, I can easily gain levels until I reach <> Master then gain further level is much harder. In Chaos Strike Back, I made to MON Master Level but very hard to get it!!!

In RTC, gaining << Master (Beyond Expert) is much harder than supposed to gain.

Gaining all skill levels below << Master are properly correct. However, I have some tables for "Masters" below:

<< Master is 125% value of difference of adept level and expert level
[] Master is 125% value of difference of expert level and << Master level.
= Master is 125% value of difference of << and [] level.
<> Master is 125% value of difference of [] and = level.
Pal Master is 200% value of difference of = and <> level.
Mon Master is 150% value of difference of <> and Pal level.
Archmaster is 200% value of difference of Pal and Mon level.

If I play Interplay DMII Skullkeep in emulated DOSBOX, I can easily gain levels until <> Master level.
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

Where are you getting these values?

Each level requires double the experience to reach from the previous. Of cours,e each level has a 'weight' factor to balance this for experience gain, so the dragon elvel has a large multiplier compared to the worm level. Or, for example, you would find your calculations different if you trained at the screamer room rather than the rat room

Did you sit in the same areas or are you comparing RTC DM to ST CSB and PC DMII< becuase thta is apples and pears (different dungeon level modifiers depending where you are)
danielcg
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Post by danielcg »

It is based on my "prediction" by playing ST DM/Chaos Strike back lots and I encountered same effect with Interplay Dungeon Master II (I also played it lots). Values I suggested are based on my "prediction" calculations and may be nearly 90% accurate, I think.

Yes, I am comparing RTC DM to ST CSB and PC DMII.

Since the master levels are "Series" and have to be divided to 6+1 different masters. Each master level is known as "Sub-level". That why, experience gain between master levels is little tougher than previous master. Getting << Master is only 125% experience required of getting expert level. However, getting PAL Master and above are properly much harder than <> Master.

These tables I suggested are based on normal difficulty (easier difficulty I suggested for Version 0.44 will gain levels easier).
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

Just from playing DMII I know experience must be weighted highly on all levels as you gain levels so stupidly fast, so comparison to CSB and DM is probably not a good idea. Agaon, the layout of CSB dungeon and DM is different too...comparing ST or PC DM t RTC DM or RTC CSB to ST CSB is a much saner comparison method, as you then have only one variable - the engine, not three - the dungeon aswell and the engine's dungeon level assignment

I am sure the experience model is identical (GG can correct me) so it does take double the experience between levels - hence your predictin model is based on linear travel through the DM dungeon with the weight increase, or highlights some fault in the engine
danielcg
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Post by danielcg »

I like to know if compare ST DM or PC DM to RTC DM is good or not for experience level gain.

If RTC DM worked as expected, ST DM/Chaos Strike Back or Interplay DMII Skullkeep might have any faults in the engine. I am not sure which experience gain in DMII Skullkeep or RTC DMII is correct. I may have found the exploit in ST DM, ST Chaos Strike Back and Interplay DMII.

Thanks for the information! I thought getting << Master is little too hard on RTC DM/Chaos Strike Back/DMII. Easier difficulty setting will help me as soon as these difficulty settings become available in next versions.
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George Gilbert
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Post by George Gilbert »

As beowuuf says, the RTC model for XP -> Levels is identical to all the original games (DM / CSB and DM-II) in that you require double the experience to get up to the next level (and the master levels are considered entirely separate, not sub-levels).

Namely:

0. - (0)
1. Neophyte (500)
2. Novice (1000)
3. Apprentice (2000)
4. Journeyman (4000)
5. Craftsman (8000)
6. Artisan (16000)
7. Adept (32000)
8. Expert (64000)
9. << Master (128000)
10. [] Master (256000)
11. = Master (512000)
12. <> Master (1024000)
13. > Master (2048000)
14. /| Master (4096000)
15. Archmaster (8192000)

What I'm far more happy to believe though is that the amount of experience you get for doing a given action at a given point in the game is wrong! If you can find any concrete examples of this, then please do let me know.
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

*gets the pillow ready for the too little too much conversations over a few iterations*
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George Gilbert
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Post by George Gilbert »

It is not a conincidence that I live only a few miles away from: http://www.secretnuclearbunker.co.uk/index2.htm

:shock:
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

Cool! Then again, what can several layers of concerte do that a fluffy pillow can't? : ) CAn a nuclear bunker protect from the boogie man? I THINK NOT!
danielcg
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Post by danielcg »

George Gilbert, thank you so much for give me detailed information about experience gains.

I just started Dungeon Master II in RTC and think Dungeon Master II design is still in development. However, it is very good result!

1. Weapon Strength level meter and Armor Strength level meter are not present. In Interplay DMII, I can check armour/weapon/weapon's magic strength.

2. If I ever get poisoned by any creatures in Interplay DMII, I can see poison strength meter show up in each character who got poisoned. It may not be present in RTC.

3. I noticed that the merchant did not "rotate" the table but however properly buy or sell things. Also, the merchant did not properly place selected item on rear of the table to show me if there is available selected item to be bought.

4. My money box has all coins mixed and did not seperate each of different coins into the groups. Interplay DMII does that but RTC does not.

5. Graphics is based on default VGA graphics, not based on SVGA mode. In SVGA, I can see symbols above the runes and explain me more details. I have played Interplay DMII in SVGA mode, not default VGA mode.

6. In weather, it is very hard for you to make exact weather timings. Don't worry about timings. However, in severe thunderstorm, the lightning did not touch the floor. Will I still take damage from lightning sent by the weather in RTC? If not, I could go freely even in severe thunderstorm. In Interplay DMII, I have to go inside and wait for the thunderstorm to go away because if I ever get hit, my characters will move to adjact area and took big damage.

I also found known bug in Interplay DMII (not RTC), the game would crash if my attribute exceed 170 and my skill level that involve attribute is high enough (Ususally <> Master or above). Anti-fire and Anti-magic however can exceed 170 without crash in Interplay DMII.
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Post by Ameena »

Another couple of differences are that there are no Scout or Porter Minions, and it's also not possible to change character names. But these are just 'cause that's how the RTC engine works since it was made for DM/CSB rather than DM2.
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Post by beowuuf »

Yeha, some of those differences we DO want in RTC DMII though.Andf money does seperate out into the various sets if you give the shop keeper your coin box

Everything else is a little too much hassle for the gain I reckon... plus I hate the rorating table as it takes an age to get your stuff, did you not notice in RTC you can keep laying down stuff instantly and it gets converted? It's cool. And i hated the power indicator, a little too cartoony and removes the mystery of the weapons

And i really hated the graphical interface for doing anything in DM2- you couldn't keep doing spells and attacking, and the party leader swappign was painful. I prefer that RTC is giving us the DMII dungeon but keeping the much prefered DM interface
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Post by Gambit37 »

Yeah! What beo said!!!!! WOOT!!!
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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

*breathes* and I hated that little bloody chest/money box interface where you had to cancel all your actions just to open the damn thing ... and... and... *Faint*

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway, just wanted to point out that DM II is a hot topic as some people didn't like the interface around it, so while some additions like the maps /porters might be nice, alot of the interface changes might not be as welcomed!

Was cool to open chests and sacks real time on the ground and pick stuff iup, or pick items out of a pile, but that's minor complex stuff
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Post by Adamo »

I like DMII-RTC much more than an original verion, for example because there`s no annoying semi-double step in RTC (thanx God!). Even though I cannot play RTC DMII on my coal-powered machine (*), but I played it on my friend`s computer and I found it very cool (I also played the Amiga version in the past, but never really liked it as much as DM/CSB mainly because of the movement style)!

(*)- in fulscreen it runs quite ok, but I cannot play fullscreen because of my broken monitor
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