Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Modern experimental clones programmed by forum member Rasmus.

Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 18-Nov-09 05:22

Hello, I am a new member to this forum, but I must say that I have been here alot to get information about how the DM mechanism works.

The reason for this is that the last year I have been working on a new Dungeon Master clone called Dungeon Master Tribute or DMT. It has the same basic mechanism thanks to the sourcecode on CSB win, but it is fully in 3D created with Direct3D including bumbpmapping, shadowing and the whole lot.

The DMT levels is an exakt replica of Dungeon Masters original levels.

If anyone is interested in watching my final work on DMT, you are all welcome to visit my webpage:
http://www.dmtribute.webs.com/

Thanks
Rasmus Ljunggren
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 18-Nov-09 21:34

I might add that I am going to put a progress box on my website. For now, I have done all the creatures except three, and the itempictures has to be renewed. When this is done, I have a fully playable Dungeon Master in 3D. The only problem is that my weakness is the 2D graphics. If anyone want to help my with the items and character pictures I would be truly greatfull.

I think I will be able to create a beta version before January. If anyone is interested in being a beta tester, this is easily arranged..
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby beowuuf » 18-Nov-09 21:37

Sorry, belated welcome to the forums!

Had a quick look at the screenshots, but have been a little busy so apologies for not posting sooner. Good luck with it!
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Gambit37 » 18-Nov-09 21:44

Hi, welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new clone -- looks very impressive.

I'd offer to help with the artwork, but I'm already too busy with my own projects. Perhaps one of the other artistic forum members might be able to help you out.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 19-Nov-09 00:31

Beowuuf and Gambit37, thank you for the welcome :) Well it isn't that important if nobody can help me with the grafic, the game will be still be completed in a couple of months :)

The progress page at http://www.dmtribute.webs.com/ is now completed and the to do list will be checked off as fast as possible.
More info about the game are also added, game mechanismes and diffrences from the original etc.
More screenshots will be added soon.

I hope I won't sound repetitive, but I will post my progress on this page as I go along if anyone is interested ;)
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 23-Nov-09 03:23

Two days spent fixing the keyholes and adding new bumpmaps to the leveltexture. I also took a little time of from the "checklist" and added lensflares to some spells, and also adding fogs to the dungeons. Screenshots on the fog and bumpmaps are now available at DMT:s gallery.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Bit » 23-Nov-09 11:49

Yummy!
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 30-Nov-09 03:05

The red dragon creature has been completed, I have also added a screenshoot on him at the DMT homepage.
All the old dungeonobject that has been with the game since the beginning has been remade and modified to fit the new enviorment.
The Championpictures fixed thanks to an avatar creation program found on the net *lucky me* :)
Added that the creatures needs to spill blood (or whatever they are made of) when hitting them to the checklist..

Now, back to work ;)
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Bit » 30-Nov-09 03:41

Hmmm - no blood - too much blood everywhere - have a nicer idea - slap the dust out of them.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 30-Nov-09 08:30

Dust? Hmmm.. Well they goes into dust at the end, maybe if I make colorfull slaping dust.. I like that idea, it's easy to create and I think I'm gonna use it :D DM is not a bloody game! ;)

While we are at it. I was thinking about creating higher difficultys when the player kills chaos and want's to replay the game.. This will be easy to fix and makes the game endless.
But if I'm gonna do this I will need some variations. Like xtra items, or maybe as I prefer to make it easyer for me, adding attributes to the weapons and armour like in diablo.
The creatures also have to be harder to kill, to do this I also need some ideas on what xtra special attacks the creatures would have.

If anyone has some ideas on "item attributes" or "creature attacks" I would be glad to accept them :D

ps. this doesn't meens more work before the beta is released, only more afterwards ;)
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby ian_scho » 30-Nov-09 09:15

Not seen a creature 'blind' the players yet. The sight recovery would be graduated over time. You could even turn the whole screen green from a thrown poison blob.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 30-Nov-09 09:58

That's a good idea.. The poisonblob does makes the screen green for a short moment.. I have already added "stun" so that a hero can't preform actions over time.. A blindstatus would have to be a party effekt, I like the idea, but the screen should be blury instead of black so that the player don't confuse it with that the lights has gone out ;)

Thank you Ian..
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Bit » 30-Nov-09 16:03

Damaging armor or other items, so you need repair stuff - that's another old style thingie.
Other things from even the old Bard's Tale or Wizardry: Making a character mad so it slaps his comrades.
Disable magic - and and and.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby ian_scho » 30-Nov-09 20:21

Ohh, breakable items - keep it simple. Not for keys obviously. Good idea.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby ian_scho » 30-Nov-09 20:22

lol, maybe diamond edge shouldn't be breakable!
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 30-Nov-09 21:52

Damaging / breaking items will give the ruster it's original purpose back :) But if I do this, then I need to add skills to characters, or link it to one of the 16 hidden skills, and the item should have some kind of level so that it's describing how hard it is to repair it. Either you can repair it or you can't, and the weapon/armour can be fully used untill the "durability" wears of and it breaks.
Good idea!

Disable magic, reminds me of Final Fantasy 6. There it was some levels you couldn´t use either Magic, items or attacks. Forces some players who only relies on one thing to think again. Maybe the breaking item and disable magic will go hand in hand forces the player to have some variation in his training.

This is very easy and fun to add, but the only thing I am worring about is that when stuff like this happens, the player must have full control and knows what have happend, so that the gameplay doesn't get confusing. We already have 4 heores to keep track of, and one more status flashing icon above the heropicture might not be enough as warning.
Maybe something in diablostyle that a full armour can be shown underneath the heropictures and describing when the headgear, footwear etc. has breaked. But I am running low on screenspace :S

You guys have given me something to think about ;)
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Bit » 2-Dec-09 03:51

Hehe, I add another basic idea to think about (well, an option):
Forget all about a second run with enhanced difficulties etc. - instead add the DSA-features of CSBwin, so that people can create and play custom dungeons. I have no idea if this would make sense for your clone, how much work this is, and if it could be applied at all. I just thought I point you on this.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 2-Dec-09 05:02

Well, my dungeon is created from the RTC textfile, so this is very posible. But there will be more bugs because I have only checked so that the DM mechanisms are working, so the person who imports their own dungeon have to dubblecheck this. An other thing is that the creatures and items still have to be from the original DM. But I suppose this wouldn't be so much trouble. If I sat down and worked on this. It would be possible within certain limits to even change the 3D cretures looks and attributes, the same goes for the items and dungeonobjects. The spells on the other hand is a little bit harder to change from the "outside". But the changecode might be a little bit "blury". I think I will release some kind of editor that imports RTC files after the betatesting.
But I will still create the dm dungeon with higher difficulty and more creatures with more skills, this is because I want some kind of original map that doesn't end, and where the players can compare their levels on.
By the way, I think those who have created a dungeon would like to add more difficulty to that too without sending a army of creatures ;)

You know, it would be real fun if the players could post thier progress from within the game to a website where the "levels"/"best items"/"number of creatures killed" are beeing shown. Then we would have a competition :D
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 2-Dec-09 05:03

I also have a question to all of you who have played DM2. What did you think of the shops (you can rate it from 1 to 5)?
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Bit » 2-Dec-09 05:34

I always loved shopping, so in DM2 too. Then again - DM world had not the size of Might&Magic or comparable games, so the shopping system didn't really fit. Next is: the items that you can buy can't be found in the game (or shouldn't be). To balance this out would be a great challenge.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Trantor » 2-Dec-09 06:04

On a scale from 1 (worst) to 5 (best), I would rate the shops in DM2 either 1.5 or 2. The idea of shops is fine, but I didn't like the way they were implemented. The whole bargaining was tedious, it was dubious how many gold coins were worth as much as an emerald etc. Also, the possibility to sell stuff encouraged farming which I consider a bad idea. This is especially true because you could buy practically the best equipment in the whole game in the shop at the very start of the game! Just farm a little (the axemen were very useful in this regard), and you get all you ever want. This takes away the feeling of accomplishment you would have if you needed to fight or solve some puzzles for your equipment. It also didn't help that there was only one shop at the very beginning. A better idea would be more shops throughout the game that have better and better equipment.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby ian_scho » 2-Dec-09 07:19

One of the most common questions in the DMJava forum was... How do you make a shop? Dungeon designers like the idea, that's for sure.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Trantor » 2-Dec-09 07:21

I like the ability to earn money and spend it on equipment, but I prefer simple stuff like the slot machines linflas used in Sukumvit's Labyrinth.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Trego » 2-Dec-09 07:53

Well I like the idea of shops, I give it a 4 (if 1 is the worst), but...

Trantor wrote:... the possibility to sell stuff encouraged farming ...


yes I also agree to this, and 'may' have been guilty of this too, but I also found that may characters were lugging around a champion worth of gems and coins with the idea something better may be found to buy latter on (but alas no).

I'm not big on the bargaining idea, especially if money is so easy to come by (farming, and almost all items could be sold).

I did like the way the shop keeper turned the table to buy or sell you items, but any simple design that doesn't take up too much space in the dungeon, would be good too.

And I like the idea of the players completing tasks before being able to buy the big shiny weapons or armour, that is, if they don't get the better items instantly after the monster is slain or puzzle solved.
It's not a bug in the program, I've just gone and done something weird.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 2-Dec-09 18:14

I agree about the farming business, as soon as I came to those treechopers I could by all the items in the game and the rest got boring :S But I do like that the farming activities motivates training in the game.
With some modification most of the members that have submited a message on the postquestion seems to like the idea.
As I mention before the shop will only be activated when you replay the game.
I was thinking something like this:
After completing the game your characters can take their weapons and armour with them to the new game.
Some of the monsters will have some chance to drop all kind of weapons/armour/items with diffrent attribute, and that is where the shop comes in handy.
Adding some kind of townportal spell to the runelist that goes to level 0 where the shop is located, also the skeletonkeys will go to teleportation devices on all the levels so that you easly could go back and fight some favorite creatures.
The shop shouldn't have a so big storage, more like a room with some alcoves that have some items you can pick and pay for. If you leave the room without paying for the items, you will get some angry and very hard to defeat guard after you.

Suggestions and remarks are welcome ;)

I also have a question to Trantor. What is this slotmachine you talk about? How does it work?
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Ameena » 2-Dec-09 21:33

There's a "slot machine" in CSB too, in that room just around the corner from the stairs that lead up to the DDD - it's where you can spend your Gor coins, if you so choose...if I remember rightly you can get some stuff like the Dexhelm and some Ful bombs and a few other bits...Ra shield or something too, I think...
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 2-Dec-09 23:50

Okey, that I do remember. I was always saving all the gor-coins in the beginning so a could use the at the slots. This would be a very easy way out, maybe I could have some kind of a "gamble room" next to the shop.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Trantor » 3-Dec-09 18:10

Rasmus, your suggestion reminds me a bit of the Nightmare and Hell difficulties of Diablo - finish the game, then replay it with some new features. It could work, but make sure you add enough stuff that makes going through again worthwhile, because I often have trouble finding the motivation to replay a game.

Ameena basically summed it up with the slot machine. The major difference is that in CSB, you never know what you get - you put in a coin and see what appears. In Sukumvit's Labyrinth (and my upcoming dungeon, too), you know what you are buying before putting coins in the slots.
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Rasmus » 4-Dec-09 00:51

Haha, You got me there Trantor :) I get alot of insperation from Diablo when it comes to itemcreation and the way the game seems to be more concentrated on your characters items and skills than of the gamestory.
Don't missunderstand me, I don't want too want to focus all the "replayingmotivation" on how your characters can be better. I have plans of making some changes in the dungeon with some hard to defeat minibosses and increase the puzzel difficulty, maybe changing some rooms and make them random. One thing that I think makes a rpg game real good is when you have possibilitys to do a really hard challenge from the beginning of the game, then my motivation goes throw the roof and I just can't wait to be strong enough to defete the challenge.
An example on this is Final Fantasy X (the next best rpg series ever according to me) ;). I manage to defete the final boss at calm lands after 600 hours of gameplay, but it was worth every minute :D
I have a hundreds of ideas in my head that I have collected in my head during the years on how to modify DM, but some might not be so popular.
It is very important that DMT:s gameplay are directed to you guys, the DM fans. Therefore, it is also very important that you criticize and comes with sugestions, but I think the most of them will come with the release of the beta version.

And too be honest Trantor, the posibilitys to buy items in a shop and to buy random items also reminds me of Diablo 2 :)
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Re: Dungeon Master Tribute, a 3D version of the original.

Postby Trantor » 4-Dec-09 05:56

It seems we like a lot of the same games Rasmus, though I always thought the optional bosses in FF10 were just too over the top. I mean, the Weapons in 7 and 8 were fine, but in 10, you had to train your characters so far that it just got silly for me. Oh well.

Your ideas to increase replay value are exactly what I meant. With such changes, the motivation is sure to stay there. You seem to have some very good ideas, I'm looking forward to DMT!
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