personal arsenal of spells

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Leslie
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personal arsenal of spells

Post by Leslie » 19-Jan-18 12:58

I am not sure if we had such a topic before... I'd like to know, do you have a personal "arsenal" of spells which you use through the entire dungeon of DM, or maybe in custom dungeons as well? On the other hand, are there spells which you never use?

I actually use only a small subset of the spells that are available. From the combat spells, I use FUL IR and DES VEN, and DES EW where needed. Although I try to avoid DES EW and use the vorpal blade instead if available. I hardly ever use OH VEN, and OH KATH RA only from items that produce it. I am not aware of any situation in DM where OH KATH RA would be better than FUL IR, although more expensive. FTL balanced that in CSB, where you can use OH KATH RA against golems and knights.

From the potions, I only use VI, YA and VI BRO. Never had any use for the ability buffing potions.

Other spells I use are YA BRO ROS to map places where you get teleported / turned, FUL of course, as well as YA IR and FUL BRO NETA.
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Ameena
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Ameena » 19-Jan-18 15:23

As far as offensive spells go, I pretty much only use Fireball, with a bit of Harm Non-Material Being against mobs that need it. I will use the Open Door spell if it's needed to solve a puzzle, and obviously a single Zokathra near the end of DM. Potion-wise I will make Health and Cure Poison potions as needed (both my characters have one flask each which they keep in their off-hands), and the occasional Stamina potion early on when I'm running around too fast for their stamina bars to keep up ;). I think that's about it, though.
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Saumun
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Saumun » 19-Jan-18 16:27

Pretty much the same... fireball. Occasional des ew. Stat boosting potions don’t last long enough to make them worth it (except in RTC where they last for ages, and ARE worth it).
Very rare for me to use a stamina potion (except if starving you can last a long time on just these... but I’m never starving in DM or CSB, so mainly for custom dungeons).
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terkio
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by terkio » 19-Jan-18 20:50

Pretty much as said.
I like the see through wall spell. Comes handy in tricky puzzles and confusing dungeons.
I like to cheat in RTC custom dungeons with stat boosting potions that last very long, for max strenght, agility, wisdom ( RTC only )
It is fun to wack tough monsters in one shot with the inquisitor at max strenght, or disrupt in one shot with a vorpal when at max wisdom.
Some spells I found no use: Darkness and invisiblity. Making ven bombs is wasting flasks.
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 19-Jan-18 23:22

I find that DES VEN is useful on level 3 against trollins, and also later in the dungeon against gigglers (and trollins too). It is more mana efficient too. IIRC it can hurt wizard eyes, pain rats, rusters, and vexiriks too, although I usually fireball them.
OH VEN works GREAT against wasps. You can kill a wasp deep in the dungeon on level 11 with UM or ON level poison clouds. All the wasps on level 6 will go down to a LO OH VEN except two in a specific location I cannot recall that either need a second casting or an UM OH VEN.
I the magic footprint spell useful on level 3 in The Matrix, but rarely need it anywhere else.
Lightning bolts are the only spell that can harm animated armor or stone golems according to the hint book. I've confirmed that they can kill animated armor, but I usually just punch out the stone golems and work on my often-neglected ninja skills at the same time. I've found punching is usually the best way to deal with stone golems and rockpiles.
Other than that, fireball and DES EW are my main attack spells, depending on the target.
If I'm in a tight spot, such as stuck between two monsters, I might cast the shield spell.
I also sometimes use it or the potion variant when fighting animated armor. Or when raiding the oitus regeneration room's treasure.
I try to keep four mana storage potions available at all time "just in case" if I'm caught napping with low health and mana. I almost never actually use it, but it has saved my butt a few times. Not just from being caught napping, it saved a champion from dying of poison a few times when I was out of mana and potions because I misread the bar on whether or not I had enough left to make that last cure poison potion.
I don't usually find the stat boosting potions that useful except for using the strength boosting potion for solving two puzzles. One is on level 3 in "time is of the essence" when I might need to give it to somebody like Tiggy when finishing that section.
The other is on level 6 when you have to shoot that arrow a really long distance. Drinking a KU potion helps increase your chances of making the shot.
Other than that, I don't use them.
I might use fireshield on level 8 if I'm chasing a giggler just in case I run into one of those roaming fireballs. I also cast it before moving around the red dragon, and it can be useful on level 13.
Other than that, it's protection isn't usually worth the mana cost against vexricks or materalizers, and I can't think of anything else off-hand that deals fire damage that it would protect against. Vexricks and materalizers cast fireballs, but they also cast poison spells of both varieties and so there is only a small chance of getting any use out of the fireshield. Wizard eyes only cast lightning bolts.
Most of the time I don't even bother on level 13, as despite what the hint book says, it doesn't seem to help against black flames.
ZOKATHRA gets cast only once the entire game, at LO level. I usually keep disposable objects such as scrolls in my champions' left hands that I can throw at enemies or use for puzzles. Heck, death by scroll is the leading cause of final death among mummies on level 2.
The open door spell is cast only to solve puzzles. That's it.
Poison bomb is not used, I just horde the ones found in the dungeon until I can unleash them against the red dragon after freezing him with a magic box.
I don't use the thief's eye much anymore.

Again, fireball is my main kill weapon, and my main potions are VI potions and VI BRO potions. I might drink the occasional stamina potion early on, but those are sparing.

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Saumun
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Saumun » 20-Jan-18 00:10

I’d also point out that personally I don’t use spells at all for the most part, unless I’m in a tight spot (and apart from light spells and vi potions).
I usually prefer straight-up fighting.
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slickrcbd
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 20-Jan-18 00:36

I can't believe I left out the light spells. I guess we all assumed it was so obvious. I don't really see any advantage of OH IR RA over FUL other than it uses a different hidden wizard skill, so I might use it from time to time just to practice something different if I just woke up from sleeping and the light spell has expired, but otherwise it seems a waste of mana.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Ameena » 20-Jan-18 10:25

Ohh yeah, oops, I did sort of forget that most basic of basic spells, the one I use as a light source, lol. So yeah, add that one to my list :D.
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PaulH
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by PaulH » 5-Feb-18 22:35

The DM spell system was innovative, but predictable - the first thing everybody did back in the 80s was try every combo of rune! RTC added a neat feature where you had to learn the spell first.

Either way, you quickly found that the lightning spell wasn't worth the effort, and the main offensive spell was the fireball. However the poison spells have their uses... they can be fired through portcullis. And make quick meat of wasps, trolins, and as the oh ven cloud lasts, it can take out several for little mana outlay. It can also make some creatures back off.

I also use the ku potion. Cheap strength, and quite long lasting. Useful for hauling heavy armout (and extra damage).

RTC and Adamski's creations have added many new features.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by scifo76 » 8-Feb-18 08:31

The spells I used on my last playthrough were:
Light source (spamming this alot, for leveling up the champions' Wizard skill)
Fireball
Poison cloud
Open door (once)
Zokathra (obvious)
Health potion (tons of it, also for leveling up the champions' Priest skill)
Weaken Nonmaterial Beings (very few times, before finding Vorpal Blade)

In this playthrough I didn't make one single Cure Poison potion, despite being infected multiple times. I just decided to let the poison run out by itself, drinking Health Potions and sleep.

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Erik Bauer
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Erik Bauer » 4-Mar-18 12:21

FUL IR , FUL and VI are the most used. I find FUL IR to be the best magic missile in the whole game, full stop.

Just after there are VI BRO and DES VEN and DES EW, OH VEN. Poison Bolt and Poison Cloud provide some tactical help (Striking through some kind of doors and force monsters to move back can be very useful, at times)

Only in later runs I started to use OH KATH RA, FUL BRO NETA and YA IR (And I'm very very happy with them). Never used shielding spells back then, but now I realized they come very handy in stressful situations and Lightning Bolt seems to have a little "edge" over fireballs against tough opponents.
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slickrcbd
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 5-Mar-18 08:21

Which opponents do you find Lightning Bolt to be useful against over fireball?
According to the hint book, supposedly it will damage the animated armors and the stone golems while those are immune to fire, but I never confirmed it by killing one with lightning. Other than that, what is lightning useful against?

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by JETENGINE » 5-Mar-18 17:07

At the risk of going off topic, I noticed that Lightning Bolt was effective against tiger striped worms, but they are never encountered in Dungeon Master, at least not in the original.
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Erik Bauer
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Erik Bauer » 5-Mar-18 18:58

slickrcbd wrote:
5-Mar-18 08:21
Which opponents do you find Lightning Bolt to be useful against over fireball?
According to the hint book, supposedly it will damage the animated armors and the stone golems while those are immune to fire, but I never confirmed it by killing one with lightning. Other than that, what is lightning useful against?
Exactly against the two you named. It seems to have good effect also against rock piles but it's hard to tell since it is a very difficult spell to cast at beginning of the game.
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slickrcbd
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 5-Mar-18 23:42

IIRC, Poison Cloud works against rockpiles, and they are slow enough that often they'll get the full effect of a LO or UM level poison cloud before moving.
Although that too is a difficult spell to cast at the beginning. I usually just punch them out. Literally, as in practice my ninja skills by removing a weapon and just punching them. Fireball definitely works too.
They can be tough for some of the champions to use this method, but it is worth it to toughen them up so they aren't worm food on the next level.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by NiceyAckerman » 7-Apr-18 06:08

I don’t use the poison spells much. FUL IR is the standby. I have killed knights with the lightning bolt, but it takes a long time. During training, I have three champions make ZO BRO RA potions (mana) and feed them to the fourth who then works on wizard spell practice. When that one gains a wizard level, it’s the next guy’s turn. I like to use invisibility to get through a room full of monsters, but even the MON strength spell doesn’t last long.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 20-Apr-18 02:43

It seems the summary for offensive spells goes like this. What spell to use depends on the monster, with fireball as the default.
  • Poison bolt is useful against trollins and lone gigglers (gets the job done while using less mana and practices a different skill), as well as lone vexiriks. GROUPS of vexiriks get fireballed.
    While it can hurt wizard eyes, pain rats, and rusters, I personally use fireball.
    Mummies and swamp slimes are immune, rockpiles and scorpions are resistant.
  • Poison Cloud is extremely effective against giant wasps. It is also useful if you have a monster trapped or frozen or if you need to get them to move. Other than that, it isn't that useful because the monsters just move away.
  • Lightning bolt is inferior to fireball, but is the only spell that hurts animated armor or stone golems. Against anything else, don't bother unless you are trying to practice other wizard skills.
    Des EW is the only spell to hurt non-material beings. Namely ghosts, materializers, water elementals, and black flames.
  • Everything else gets fireballed
About the wasps, I'm serious, most wasps on level 6 will die from a LO OH VEN and all will die to an UM OH VEN. However, if the first LO OH VEN doesn't kill them on level 6, a second will.
On the later level, you never need more than an ON OH VEN.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Maven » 21-Jul-18 07:40

Don't underestimate Dain potions.

Sometimes the most powerful tactics aren't obvious.

slickrcbd
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 22-Jul-18 16:44

I fail to see how it helps since it is the champion who drinks it, but you, acting as Theron's ghost that makes all the decisions. You don't feel the effects of the potion.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by MasterWuuf » 31-Jul-18 22:15

Fireball, of course.
The lightning spell seems to work better on the knights. (Any truth to that?)
Poison cloud, unless the critters keep getting away, then I use poison blast.
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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by slickrcbd » 1-Aug-18 00:41

As far as I know, lightning is the ONLY spell to work on the animated armor or stone golems, although I never personally confirmed that it works on the stone golems. I've dumped all my mana into PAL or MON level lightning bolts as well as draining Stormring and Bolt Blade and failed to kill a single golem.
I've had better luck punching them out. Literally, best way I've found is to use MON YA IR or drink a couple of MON YA BRO potions, and punch them until the champion gains a ninja level or is low on HP, then switch champions or drink a potion.

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Re: personal arsenal of spells

Post by Ameena » 1-Aug-18 14:51

I think lightning works because it has a physical component to the damage, which is something that works against Knights and Stone Giants.
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