New Player Question

Discuss anything about the original Dungeon Master on any of the original platforms (Amiga, Atari, etc.).
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

Well....I was thinking, too, the rubis key was only giving extra stuff opening ornate doors. As well as the two golems at the firestaff, I thought there was no way to escape but getting caught in between.
Well, false memory !

Very long ago, when I completed the game I had missed the
Spoiler
Winged key
I remember, I had Chani and Elija, forgot the other two, may be Darou and WuTse.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Ameena »

I think I've only ever gone for it once or twice. It's not necessary, after all, just a minor convenience :). And yes, it's super-easy to grab the Firestaff and saunter your way aaaaall the way back along the corridor, because the stone giants are sooo sllooowwww :D.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

No news from Slide... Wonder if he completed it.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Ameena »

Hopefully he didn't mass-ragequit everything due to getting frustrated over keys and stuff ;).
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

I think he died from starvation, trapped in the low levels with not enough food and water. :(

It would be lovely if we could send a rescue team.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

I all. The real me is still alive and Tiggy The Intrepid Avatar is too. Due to the inconveniences of being alive in a real economy, I took some time off but then returned to the Tomb of the Firestaff.

There was a gorilla / golem behind a rainbow door. I dispatched it using a combination of the sword and the door. My sense is that it was easier than using just the sword. I have no idea the HP penalty for being door whacked but it has to have been better than the 2 or 3's I was regularly scoring using the sword / dance method of golem extermination.

This rewarded me with the Inquisitor presumably crafted in Spain during the late 15th Century.

I do have a question. I learned how to create a strength potion. I noted the rated fighters in the Museum Maze of Pictures all had a good deal of strength so thought to imbue Tiggy with same so as to make him / her more effective. I got Old Tigs loaded up like a Tour de France competitor in the 1970's figuring this would give me a one shot kill or close.

My first whack - a 3 same as no potion. I didn't note a significant average hit increase on or off potion. Are the potions, like fireballs and Ninja skills, pointless in a later game?

Meanwhile I"m stuck again. I have but one key Master. It's not very masterful as it's unable to open anything where the name would imply anything. There are several blue - green doors apparently (I can see through walls too) closets with various goods. The labeled room, which based on this thread is opened with a Ruby key, also seems to be a supply closet. Then there is another door with what I take to be a RA key needed. Also there is a supply closet behind a rainbow door with no apparent way to get it open.

Based on reading this thread, I think I"m missing, at the very least, a ruby key. Well, that's a fine kettle of fish. I figured the key would be behind the rainbow door with Insquisitor so was bitterly disappointed to find that not the case. I'm now faced with the daunting and discouraging proposition of searching all 12 levels looking for a key I seem to have overlooked at the first run through. That's not my idea of joyous game play.

Is there a cheat code I can use to manufacture a ruby key or another one to open the door to the supply closet?
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

Here is the ultimate cheat: All maps with all items from the DM Encyclopedia.
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/1517
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

Unfortunately, you cannot progress further without the ruby key. You do indeed need one more ra key, but it's through the ruby key door.

Since i don't know how much info you actually need, i'll cover the next bit....
Spoiler
The ruby key is at the end of level 11 beyond a wall text that says "Enlarge My View". You need the Magnifier from level 10 to get it. If you don't already have it, it's near the very end of level 10 in a room with a red button (don't press it).
Spoiler
You can get to these places very quickly via the skeleton staircase, but i don't know which levels you've opened.
As for potions, it depends how many you drank. Try making a few and drinking them all in one go. You should see a difference. They wear off quite quickly though (especially if you sleep). Also, you'll find the difference in hitting power more against soft bodied monsters.
With or without them, dropping a door on a monster is always a good ploy.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Jan »

One more remark: You don't actually need the
Spoiler
Magnifier
in the
Spoiler
Enlarge my View
puzzle - curiously, the
Spoiler
Eye
will react to any object you use ("click") on it. Nobody knows whether it's a bug or if it was intended. So, the way to the Ruby Key is quite easy.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

:oops: I'd forgotten about that. It's certainly true of the original ST version.
I think i recall Slide is playing in CSBwin, so that should indeed work (i think). In the DSB and RTC ports i think you have to use the magnifier.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

Yes, I"m playing CSBwin. I'm not clear where the 'end' of L11 may be. IIRC, L11 is right above the knight level. There is a small continuation of the level beyond the stair to L12. That leads to a small room with several doors opened by gold coins holding supplies . To me that's the end of L11 and I can't remember any engraving about enlarging a view.

I don't have a magnifier - another item I either passed or missed. I hope the bug exists - assuming I can find the area to try the bug on.

This returns me to again commenting on the design of the game. There seem to be some vital items which have no highlight to communicate they are vital and mixed in with the many useless items such as jewelry. I suppose if you are a foursome you can just carry everything but why would you? Anyway, I'm severely restricted in both mass and space - my own fault, but it's part of the game.

I may reluctantly go to that site cited by terkio to find a map to the ruby key. If the Enlarge my View hint was familiar to me, that's one thing, but I didn't see it and can't visualize where it may be.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

The "Enlarge My View" eye is only a few paces from the stairs down to L12.
Where the room with the coin slots is just east of the stairs, the eye is just west and north of the stairs.
You go through a door and it's opposite a skeleton keyhole. Try clicking on it with any object and it will open a wall next to you. If that doesn't work, you'll need the magnifier.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

Yes. I went back there and found that passage I'd oddly just strolled past before. I can't account for me having missed it completely. It wasn't subtle in any way.

The eye responded to the Mirror of Dawn which I kept for some reason. I think I just forgot it stuck in the bottom of a chest. I didn't test with other items.

I recovered the Firestaff but the Zo Kath Ra spell did nothing except create what I take is Corbomite or something similarly named or something that looks like that. Anyway, the spell created an orange thing and didn't seem to have an effect on the Firestaff despite the scroll implying differently.

So later on, upward by being downward to see what's below the knight level.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

You can use the zokathra spell somewhere. You'll know when you see it. Travel as far down as you can. It's quicker with a winged key (it can take you down and into the bottom level straight from the firestaff level), but not entirely necessary. If you've already left the firestaff level, i wouldn't bother going back for it. If you decide that you do want the winged key, check a post on the previous page.
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

Hi Tiggy,
Anyway, the spell created an orange thing
So far soo good
and didn't seem to have an effect on the Firestaff despite the scroll implying differently.
Well.....It should have an effect.

Try again, I think the exact location to click on the amalgam is quite finiky. To me you've perfecty understood the power gem ritual.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

Not going to worry about zo kath ra for the minute. Instead, headed down to what I call L13 which is below the knights or, upon taking an inventory, maybe up to L3 / L4 to replenish supplies. Either way, onward by downward.
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

To replenish on food and water, the best rest place is at the room with a fountain at the rat level.
Not far, as mentioned a while ago, you have a room with infinite food. A room where rats respawn closed with a porticullis to safely slaughter them.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Ameena »

Cool, gratz on getting hold of the Firestaff :). If you're desparate for food and water, as Terkio mentions you can return to Level Nine and have a drink in the small room just around the corner from the Central Stairwell, and get food from the Rat Room which is east as far as you can go and then turn left - I think you were there before, when you first cleared this level :). But you're pretty close to the end now so you shouldn't need too much. There's no more water to be found at the bottom levels of the dungeon but there is one source of food :).
The "orange" thing you got when you cast Zo Kath Ra is literally called a Zokathra spell but yes, it does have the same graphic as the corbumite from earlier in the dungeon :D. You don't use it on the Firestaff, though - this is hinted at in a couple of the scrolls from the lab on Level Seven, one of which reads "The Power Gem is sealed in the mountain by a strange magical force", and another which reads "Zokathra might create a plasma that could burn through the amalgam encasing the Gem". So find a thing that looks like a gem that is encased in some weird stuff, and try using a Zokathra on that :).
Don't worry, you shouldn't miss anything now - now that you have the Firestaff, you will only need to worry about the lower two levels of the dungeon unless you're about to die of thirst in which case see the start of this post for where to get a drink ;).
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

Hi slide,
You better follow Ameena and Saumun, I again posted wrong infos. I confused the zo kath ra spell that you quote as orange with the power gem plasma.
To me, the item you make with the zo kath ra spell is yellow; Yellow when dropped on the floor, I forgot it is orange when in the inventory.
Make sure you save once you have completed the firestaff ritual. Save before you leave the room.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

Thanks all. I took another break due to quotidian necessities but plan on venturing downward again soon. I'll try the rat room tango rather than the easier screaming cabbage room or now, rather unchallenging worm regen hallway or room.

Perhaps with my enhanced fighting skills and hp I'll fare better against the rats than on the first go around. So far I've found two foes which are so difficult that I tend to avoid rather than engage: rats and scorpions. The squeaking crabs are bad too. I suppose a good player could actually clear out the room on L12 where so many seem to be, but I gave up and instead ran in, took a look and then fled several times in search of something or other. Even then it was touch and go with many saves.

If anybody has played DM on, say, an Amiga or PC and CSBWin, are they both calibrated the same? This seems very difficult to me for a game which had such wide appeal.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Saumun »

You're so very close to completing it.

I generally don't bother with the L12 Oitu room. Hardly seems worth it for a couple of bombs and speedboots.

To answer your question... Yes! Paul S would be able to give a more succinct answer, but CSBwin (as far as i'm aware) uses the actual Atari ST code, and so will be the same (albeit faster).
As for me personally, i played the original Atari version and the Amiga version, but not the PC.
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terkio
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

My first DM play was on a Atari 520 STF. At that time DM was considered difficult and there was something to be proud bragging, I am Dungeon Master level 14 or so.
Most of us have re played it many times, know all the tricks ( yes .....there are 4 pairs of speed boots, yes one can kill an Oitu bare handed ), so to experienced DMers it is an easy game.
I have replayed DM PC, looks easier but not sure, it actually is.
I use a lot of training usually at the rat level where I have plenty of food and water. Others prefer not to spend time training.
Super experts set records at the fastest at completing DM.
Look for a video by Paul H. With Stam at the axe, he goes very fast to it without picking much items.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho5E05Bi3bU
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

That video was amazing. The guy has the reflexes of a bat and seems to have memorized the entire game. Also I note he had many one shot kills at the start. I wasn't ever able to come close to that.

Well, I"m at end stage having the charged firestaff. During the conflict at that level, my wife asked me why I was trying to beat up a dinosaur's tail. Oddly, this, which I take to be the major battle aside from end game, was much easier than many other earlier foes. The foe was strong at L14, but predictable and rather slow. I didn't take a single hit aside from the first one when I was wandering around the room thinking I was alone.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by terkio »

Good move. What stats do you have ? Health, Mana, Fighter Ninja Priest Wizard levels.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Jan »

slide wrote:Oddly, this, which I take to be the major battle aside from end game, was much easier than many other earlier foes. The foe was strong at L14, but predictable and rather slow. I didn't take a single hit aside from the first one when I was wandering around the room thinking I was alone.
That's correct and I agree. That's because he's too slow, he's alone, and the room is quite large. But wait till you see those creatures in Chaos Strikes Back (CSB)! Once you finish DM, take your character to CSB, and you'll see that DM was only a "playable demo" to CSB - you won't complain about easy fights with dragons any more, trust me! :twisted:
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Ameena »

Hey, sounds like you're doing good, killed the Dragon and got the completed Firestaff :D. See, I told you there was one more source of food in the dungeon ;). I'm usually still working my way through Screamer slices by that point, though, so I never get to actually eat any of the steaks. Now you've complete the Firestaff, all that remains is for you to use it to complete the game :).
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Re: New Player Question

Post by MasterWuuf »

Scorpions: Seems three top-level fireballs and one mid-level fireball will do the trick.

Rats: If you can't seem to fight them 'hand to hand' and win (keep from getting killed or poisoned),
you can lure them to the gate and close it. Then, shoot poison blasts at them through the gate, resting when needed.
You can keep at this until they die (if you have the patience) or at least weaken them and then rush in,
pummeling a weakened opponent. Then back away and wait for them to regenerate.

Water and Food problem: I found you can keep the levels up about halfway, if you keep well-fed or well-watered.
If a person makes it to the rat regeneration room, staying gorged on food should be possible.
Then, if you want, you can make a run back to fill all your water skins and flasks with water.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by slide »

Hi All

Disaster hit here. I had a catastrophic computer crash - unable to boot. In some ways a worse thing occurred. I had three backup archives made by Paragon Backup which I paid full retail for. I now feel like a fool because the software was unable to read any of the three archives so I lost not only the game, but all my saves including the last one where my only task left was to tackle the guy in the fire room and 'fuse' him.

Therefore, for me to complete the game, I'd have to locate CSBWin again and start from scratch. I feel too discouraged to do that now. The game loss is the least of my issues overall. I only lost a tiny fraction of my needed data due to using cloud storage for much but some important items are, apparently, forever lost into the aether.

I'm also quite annoyed that my query to Paragon asking if it's possible to extract at least something from the archives has gone unanswered now days later. If I choose to try again later, I likely will choose a different team. I may include Tiggy, but will surely have a fighter such as the tyrannosaur.

As to some of your questions: terkio: I'm an expert in all areas except Wizard where I"m a square master.

Yes, Ameena - it was nice to have some t-bone style steaks after the mundane diet of cabbage slices.

Jan, looks like my PC won't be traveling to CSB. Owell. I've heard that's many times more difficult than DM and I barely was able to handle DM. I'd not have been able to do it at all if not for this thread with its helpful veterans.

Wuuf: I hadn't considered that I could toss a poison cloud through a gate so never did. If I return to play another round someday, I"ll keep that strategy in mind. I tended to be overly invested in fireballs to the detriment of other remedies.

Thanks to all again. I'll drop by again soon.
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Jan »

Oh, that's bad, I'm so sorry to hear that. That's an immensely bad luck. :|

However, I somehow fell that you will be back. :twisted: And that you will go for CSB next. :twisted:
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Re: New Player Question

Post by Ameena »

D'oh, that's not great news :(. It's a shame you've lost all your progress, but consider that if you play through the game again you now know what to expect, what kind of stuff you need and what you can leave behind, and that perhaps taking the physically-weakest character on a solo run isn't the best idea if you want an easier time of things ;).
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