Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Discuss Chaos Strikes Back, the "expansion pack" for Dungeon Master.
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luke41
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Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by luke41 »

I am playing CSB for the first time, and am not sure what is the best way to deal with the abilities of my champions.
The question is, like in DM, whether to resurrect, reincarnate or import the champions. Reincarnation means lower starting abilities but faster learning, while resurrection higher abilities at the start and slower (and in absolute terms lower?) learning. How is it with imported Champions from DM? Are they learning as fast as reicarnated champions from CSB-prison?

After my first hours (days... to be honest!) of CSB, which I started with REINCARNATED champions, they are learning well, but are still lower than ressurected:
(values means: starting reincarnated // starting ressurecting // my values after going around in level 8 & 9, killing some mummies, worms and eyes and munchers):
BUZZ: 140-81-90 // 280-163-180 // 194-114-153
ALGOR: 150-125-40 // 300-250-80 // 224-206-76
AROC: 135-100-75 // 270-200-150 // 175-132-119
PLAGUE: 205-75-80 // 299-137-143 // 410-150-160

As you can see, some champions learn a lot (Algor, Plague in strength, Aroc & Buzz in Mana), but now I am stuck with some monsters its too hard to fight them (it seems... it always seems too hard, and then there is a way...). Like the start of the level with 4 Oitu-Spiders from all sides, or the room with 5 or 6 Vexirks (I cannot kill ONE of them so far, despite 3 greenboxes and a hell of 4th-power poison-clouds or fireballs!!!).
What do you think - should I train more (creating munchers or worms by stepping on some plates), or would it be better to start all over with a resurrected party?

By the way: Maybe the best way is to take the characters from Dungeon Master than a reincarnated CSB-party (my DM-Savegame is after killing the dragon and close before winning over Chaos!):
GOTHMOG: 260-103-120
ELIJA: 170-64-100
AZIZI: 207-85-3
TIGGY: 113-45-116

The problem is, that ELIJA is underperorming here, by time and levels Gothmog managed to be better PRIEST and WIZARD than Elija, and AZIZI can only fight & throw, no magic... Furthermore, TIGGY is still VERY WEAK (113)...
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Ameena »

I don't bother taking the CSB champions - I always just import my party from DM that I'm already attached to ;). In my case, these days, that's only two characters since I stopped playing with a full four ages ago (that said, I haven't played the game for a while now either...as in, a couple of years or so, I think). Since CSB starts off so much harder than DM I don't think Resurrection is the way to go since this completely wipes everyone's skills so they can't even cast a crappy Lo-level Fireball. That's why all the CSB champs start off as Experts and stuff - that's the level you should roughly be when you start the game in order to have some chance, I think, and that's roughly the level you should finish DM at if you went through and did at least most of the content. I pay no attention whatsoever to how fast either of my characters level up in stuff...I just make sure they both hit stuff and cast stuff so that they both level up at stuff. About the only thing I don't really bother with is Ninja levels, till we're at about Level Nine or so (of DM), at which point I park somewhere safe and have my first character pick up something heavy (like a boulder or chest) and throw it repeatedly, easy to do as it lands directly at my feet so I don't have to move in order to pick it up. Because I'm lazy, the minute they level up enough that I do have to move (Journeyman, I believe), I switch to the other character and get them to practice instead till they're at the same point. That's it, job done, and then I carry on with the game :D. Both those characters did fine in CSB last time I ran them through both games (they were Reincarnated when I started DM).
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Saumun
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Saumun »

I also personally favour importing DM champions. Also, i don't really concern myself with levelling up in CSB. It's just not that kind of dungeon (IMO).
Were you fighting the vexirks with reincarnated champions?
CSB should tailor the difficulty according to you party's strengths (this may depend on which engine you're using... i'm not 100% sure).
For more info on the merits of resurrection/reincarnation, go here:- http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 28&t=29487
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Phoenix »

The choice between resurecting and reincarnating champions ultimately comes down to stats. If you reincarnate you will get higher values for strength, dexterity, etc... at the cost of skill levels. If you chose to reincarnate, as I do, try taking time to train in the prison before you start the main dungeon. It's posssible to train your champions to apprentice levels or until you run out of food and water. If you do this, when you start the main dungeon you will have your food and water restored to half ( if I remember correctly). Kill the initial worms and collect all items in the supplies for the quick area (especially the vorple blade and flask) before you enter the junction of the ways. The easiiest path to complete the game from the junction is KU -> ROS -> DAIN -> NETA. I don't recommend taking the DAIN/NETA paths first unless you have at least expert wizard/priests.
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Paul Stevens
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Paul Stevens »

I find all this talk about 'which character', 'resurrect or reincarnate',
'leveling up', etc. rather amusing. I can start with any single
character, resurrected, reincarnated, imported, or whatever and
easily finish the game. The big problem is figuring out how to deal
with the monsters and in what order. There is usually a way to
deal with them that requires little skill or strength. By the time you
have dealt with all the easy monsters you will be advanced enough to
enter the DDD with confidence.

I myself just started with a reincarnated Toadrot. Clearing the worms
in the opening room requires patience, but nothing difficult. Then to
the worms in the basement to gather food. Then to the Scorpions and
Dragons upstairs to get the first 'Key'. Again, simply patience. Then
to the basement for the second 'Key' and, as I recall, a nice weapon.
By this time, even a reincarnated Toadrot is quite capable.

Chaos Strikes Back is mostly about knowledge rather than power.
It has been finished in ten minutes with a single champion :!:
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Thorham
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Thorham »

Paul Stevens wrote:I find all this talk about 'which character', 'resurrect or reincarnate', 'leveling up', etc. rather amusing
Indeed. It doesn't matter what you start with. I started my first real play-through with reincarnated Chani and Syra (reincarnate -> save -> import). Only the start of the game is actually hard that way.
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Re: Champions: Import, Resurect, Reincarnate?

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I found weak characters can compensate with war cry. it is possible to dance around tough guys with a weak character, war cry gives the party a chance to cast spells for healing while fighting and can give a hit before the monster can hit back. a warriors way.
keep your gor coin handy
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