Experience multiplier in DM2

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Jet
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Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Jet »

Hello,

I'm playing DM2 with an Amiga emulator (WinUAE) once again and I have 2 Questions in mind:

1)
I read a lot about gaining experience in DM/CSB and that there's an experience multiplier wich is applied on top of the basic experience calculation (e. g. dealing with the dragon in Level 13 of DM gives a multiple of xp compared to fighting in level 1). Is there such a multiplier in DM2, too? I mean is it more rewarding to train one's characters in a specific area?

2)
Which area is the best for training one's characters, experience multiplier issue ignored? Like in DM there is a black flame in level 12 or so where one can level up really quick. I thought about training at the cemetary area, because the ghosts aren't that tough and also can't be hurt. So attacking them with STAB while being under attack the whole time should bring the ninja level up really quickly. That should save me a lot of time. What do you think?

Regards
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Bit
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Bit »

-> 1) If there were a Dragon in level 1, you surely would get the experience points too. If you would survive it...

-> 2) If you want to save time, you should not play games...
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by beowuuf »

@bit Actions dictate XP not creatures.


@Jet Welcome to the forum.

Not sure about an experience multiplier (I believe this would be intact), but the axeman area nets you axes for sale so can build money at the same time
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Bit »

Yeah, but a dragon in DM in level 1 would take much slaps... :D
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Seriously Unserious »

if you could survive even the bite, never mind the mon-level fireballs.

just be careful telling that dragon he's got dragon breath. he just might agree with you... Image
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by beowuuf »

I put a couple of dragons in level 2 (level 1) in my custom dungeon... each just had something wrong with them or were avoidable. A 10hp dragon takes an axe to the face the same as any other critter :D You just need to be able to dance well to deliver that blow.
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Bit »

stairdance :D
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Jet
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Jet »

Hi,

thanks for your replies! Of course it could be any other creature in Level 1. The xp gained would still be the same.

I do not rush through computer games, on the contrary. I've been playing games since 1989 and try to get the most of any game that is worth to be played. But it is a nuisance noticing that there exist much better training areas, than I previously knew. I remember spending hours of punching screamers in the screamer room in level 3 of DM. Only to eventually hear about the xp multiplier and that training against the pain rats in lv 9, for example, is much more rewarding... I enjoy playing games but I want to be efficient where it makes sense.

As I read, the graphics.dat file of DM/CSB contains the information of which multiplier is applied in a dungeon level. For DM2, it is said the level or area information is stored in the dungeon.dat file (according to DM enceclopedia). So if this is true, one may possibly find the information by looking through the file.
Have you guys ever made investigations concerning the difficulty level of an area/level in the dungeon.dat or graphics.dat file? Maybe someone of DM2's clone developers?
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Jet wrote: As I read, the graphics.dat file of DM/CSB contains the information of which multiplier is applied in a dungeon level. For DM2, it is said the level or area information is stored in the dungeon.dat file (according to DM enceclopedia). So if this is true, one may possibly find the information by looking through the file.
Have you guys ever made investigations concerning the difficulty level of an area/level in the dungeon.dat or graphics.dat file? Maybe someone of DM2's clone developers?
That's something I'd like to know as well.

Also, I just noticed we all forgot to say something the other day, and that's

Welcome to the forum, Jet! 8)
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by beowuuf »

beowuuf wrote:@Jet Welcome to the forum.
Speak for yourself :p


Sphenx and kentaro made small in-roads in to editing the DM2 dungeons. Check the tools forum and the encycopaedia. Also the DM2 maps generated from the game engne itself will hint at depths and so XP modifiers
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Bit »

Jet wrote:...I've been playing games since 1989...
That sounds good! I've thought we got one of those rusher kids here - that's why my answer was so cynical. Have to apologize then, and good that Beo was reasonable.
I'm also busy with DM2 since two years, but still it's all in anonymous runes there, so I couldn't help you with such a variable. Hope the other hints help you - and then ... Welcome!
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Seriously Unserious »

beowuuf wrote:
beowuuf wrote:@Jet Welcome to the forum.
Speak for yourself :p


Sphenx and kentaro made small in-roads in to editing the DM2 dungeons. Check the tools forum and the encycopaedia. Also the DM2 maps generated from the game engne itself will hint at depths and so XP modifiers
apparently I missed your welcomeing of Jet! :|
That sounds good! I've thought we got one of those rusher kids here - that's why my answer was so cynical. Have to apologize then, and good that Beo was reasonable.
I'm also busy with DM2 since two years, but still it's all in anonymous runes there, so I couldn't help you with such a variable. Hope the other hints help you - and then ... Welcome!
I can't say I blame you, with a name like Jet, he looks like a speed freak :P
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Bit »

tststs. mocking about names is seriously unserious! at least a bit. :P
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Seriously Unserious »

yes!
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Sphenx »

Jet wrote: As I read, the graphics.dat file of DM/CSB contains the information of which multiplier is applied in a dungeon level. For DM2, it is said the level or area information is stored in the dungeon.dat file (according to DM enceclopedia). So if this is true, one may possibly find the information by looking through the file.
Have you guys ever made investigations concerning the difficulty level of an area/level in the dungeon.dat or graphics.dat file? Maybe someone of DM2's clone developers?
Like for DM1, the info is in the dungeon.dat (same structure!).
For more insight, DMDC2 is currently the tool for it!
Grab it here: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/719
The info is found in level headers, in the "difficulty" box.

For answering to the first question, in DM2 the place with the highest XP multiplier is the Void with Dragoth (xpmod=13)
Then, almost all Skullkeep levels have xpmod=10
Dru Tan's cave has xpmod=10
The cemetery has a xpmod=8 (and just after the Tree Gorgons place has xpmod=9)
The Axemen forest has xpmod=8 so it might be an interesting place to train.
etc ..
The Sun Clan Village has xpmod at 1 & 2.
And the "Sleeping Vault", the starting cave has xpmod=0; when xpmod=0, then the light is always permanent.
Jet wrote:I thought about training at the cemetary area, because the ghosts aren't that tough and also can't be hurt. So attacking them with STAB while being under attack the whole time should bring the ninja level up really quickly. That should save me a lot of time. What do you think?
I am not sure that stabbing ghosts will bring "full" xp points, it may be like stabbing in the air which does not give as much xp as stabbing a non-ghost creature (I may check that point in skwin).
And being under attack will increase fighter skills, not ninja.

More questions :?:
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Jet
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Jet »

Thanks to all for the tips and the warm welcome!

@Bit: Never mind. I don't like these kiddies, too. But we should not be too hard on them. I mean, they grew up with WoW and the like... ;-)

@Seriously Unserious: I'm actually no speed freak.

@ Sphenx:

That's exactly what I was looking for! I already took a first look at the editor. Looks pretty neat. So this makes it really clear that training in the starting areas is a waste of time. Why bother casting fire shields in the sun clan village, if I could get around 9 times more experience in an area not so far away?

No, stabbing ghosts won't bring the maximum xp, thats for sure. Because I can't hit it with a dagger. It might be arguably stabbing in the air, but while beeing under attack should give two times more xp than doing it without beeing attacked. Action xp (stab) x under attack bomus (x2) x experience multiplier (e.g. x8) = total xp. The only question is how many base xp points will I get while not hitting an enemy. Maybe I could track that in a mem editor...
I only brought the cemetary example, because I read about someone training with the flame in DM in level 12. He was able to quickly gain high skill levels.

The sheer fact of beeing attacked will, of course, increase the fighter skill. But stabbing increases the ninja (hidden fighting) skill. That's what I meant.
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Jet
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Jet »

Thanks to all for the tips and the warm welcome!

@Bit: Never mind. I don't like these kiddies much, too. But we should not be too hard on them. I mean, they grew up with WoW and the like... :wink:

@Seriously Unserious: I'm actually no speed freak.

@ Sphenx:

That's exactly what I was looking for! I already took a first look at the editor. Looks pretty neat. So this makes it really clear that training in the starting areas is sort of a waste of time. Why bother casting fire shields in the sun clan village, if I could get about, say, 9 times more experience in an area not so far away?

No, stabbing ghosts won't bring the maximum xp, thats for sure. Because I can't hit it with a dagger. It might be arguably stabbing in the air, but while beeing under attack should give two times more xp than doing it without beeing attacked. Action xp (stab) x under attack bomus (x2) x experience multiplier (e.g. x8) = total xp. The only question is how many base xp points will I get while not hitting an enemy. Maybe I could track that in a mem editor...
I only brought the cemetary example, because I read about someone training with the black flame in DM in level 12. He was able to quickly gain high skill levels.

The sheer fact of beeing attacked will, of course, increase the fighter skill. But stabbing increases the ninja (hidden fighting) skill. That's what I meant.
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by beowuuf »

Strange, these posts were stuck in the queue awaiting approval, even though a) I thought only a poster's first post was to be approved, and b) there was nothing indicating a post awaiting approval anywhere else!


This is probably much too late, sadly my admin account e-mail is linked to beowuuf rather than my other e-mail address, and it's been over a month since I checked it :(
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Re: Experience multiplier in DM2

Post by Sphenx »

Jet wrote:Maybe I could track that in a mem editor...
Or you try running your savegame with the current version of skwin downloadable here : dmbuilder.sphenxmusics.fr/files/skwinspx.zip. :)
You have various exe versions, try "SKWin.Mod.Release"

This will displays every gained XP ingame! so that you could check by yourself what is more efficient.
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