[Custom dungeon] Skeleton Key [RTC] [Zed5Duke]

Custom dungeons for RTC
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Zed5Duke
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[Custom dungeon] Skeleton Key [RTC] [Zed5Duke]

Post by Zed5Duke »

Version: V1.03 for RTC V0.49
Platform: RTC
Author: Zed5Duke
Date published: 2009, November 7
Date last updated: 2009, November 24

Story:
Only one person sir Henric survived dungeon. Once in tavern when was drunken, he tell story about treasure which lay deep inside. This story spread around kingdom, because he quickly become rich, and it could be true. Many peoples come to explore dungeon, the same as you. Well most of adventurers never return, but maybe you will have more luck.

Notes:
Size: 30 levels
Difficulty: Hard
Graphic: DM1

Inventions:
-its dark, and light spell dont work (torch is nice survival part of game)
-neck is changed to forearm, it look like two left hands (to hold torch and shield)
-almost every puzzles are new and original (there are few clues, but all hidden)

Download:
Download this dungeon from this Shared OneDrive (in the 'Custom Dungeons' folder)
Last edited by Zed5Duke on Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Jan
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Jan »

30 levels! OMG!

Is it possible to kill the demon on the fireball level (with the iron key)? He must have been hit by hundreds of lethal fireballs and still doesn't seem to have a single scratch. :?:
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by PaulH »

Levelettes ;-)

Played for 10 mins and already completed about 8 of them. It is good stuff, nice puzzles, but in reality just an extension of the last dungeon in style and theme.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by RAF68 »

a dungeon new thank you zed I am going to play it all in succession
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Jan »

As Paul said, it's nice and there are many new and smart puzzles, but I'm afraid that it's getting too repetitive and monotonous for me. :( I don't count the levels, I must be somewhere between 10 and 15 (two levels bellow Olaf), but I'll abandon the game here - at least for now. Anyway, thank you for the dungeon, Zed. :D
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Zed5Duke »

Dungeon is ready but with this size, am sure there could be something wrong, so wait few days until offcial fully tested version. Sometime i have weird crashes in rtc, today i found that important triger placed on level 12 is now missing and i must fix it and check all maps again.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Jan »

WHAT?!? Oh, no! :(

EDIT: OK, it seems that by a coincidence I've abandoned the game directly on the level 12 with the problem with the missing trigger - I checked it and I'm on the level with "you are trapped" text and I can't find the way down - so it's the level 12, isn't it?
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by the master »

Stuck on the bit where there seems to be rain coming down in front of a chest. Irs just below the demon level where you et the iron key. Do I just keep bashing or is there a switch nearby.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Jan »

I don't remember the solution exactly, but I think the "rain" is removed automatically when you open the door to the next level. Have you opened it? That one with the gem-shaped hole? If not,
Spoiler
read the scroll nearby (talking about dirty hole for something not valuable)
- it's a good hint.

But I don't think it's a good idea to play this dungeon now - I recommend waiting for Zed fixing the bug(s). :!:
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key

Post by Zed5Duke »

Ok ready to play, i made overall testing and walk trough entire game.
It fix one missing trigger, but also give new items, puzzle, level, monsters, and balance water/food/light items.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by linflas »

i passed the "you are trapped" level and now i'm stuck on the one below with the puzzle where there's an antman and a skeleton : i put the object in front the f... but the pit doesn't open.
big issue is food, i had to restart three times to complete puzzles faster = no fun !
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Jan »

I'll have to start again with this new version. But I'll wait until Linflas (or someone else) finishes it - I want to be sure that this version has no major bugs and can be finished. One futile attempt was enough for me.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Gambit37 »

Another food problem? Zed, please learn from our previous criticisms.... ;-)
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Zed5Duke »

i put the object in front the f... but the pit doesn't open.
Do you mean in front on floor?, you must put
Spoiler
bone to mouth
then you will hear sound, this puzzle work i test it yesterday
big issue is food
There is lot of hidden food, and yesterday after test i got even thought that maybe should limit food, because its too much (i finished game with two chests full of food)
I want to be sure that this version has no major bugs and can be finished.
Its fully playable now, i finished it twice, fast by test character and slow in normal playstyle.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Trantor »

Zed, I don't think you are the best judge when it comes to the amount of food in your own dungeon. Don't forget that you know all the traps and riddles, and know where all the secrets are. Another player will often stop and think about what to do next, and they will not find all the hidden stuff.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by linflas »

most of hidden food is poisonous, so you must keep it but not eat it until you have enough HP to *not* die during sleeping time...
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Zed5Duke »

Food is faster consumed when rest because time speed is increased, and during game i rest very often so its no matter when i dont stop and think about puzzle. If i finish game with several food items then it should be enough for even very slow play style.

Anyway:
Difficulty: Hard
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Gambit37 »

Zed, Trantor is right: you're not the best judge since it's very very difficult to be objective about playtesting when you already know exactly how to finish the game. The tendency is for a designer just to test things to see they work, rather than test all possibilities.

If you're not already doing so, I would suggest asking other forum members to playtest your dungeons before releasing them. But it sounds like that's what we're doing anyway ;-)

For the record, I stopped playing villain pit because the characters were too weak and there wasn't enough good food. It just wasn't fun in my view.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by beowuuf »

I agree, I think we playtest the dungeons when he releases them :)

I think Zed already stated the intent and how he wanted to make the challenge, so either people like that, or so far they don't. I cannot comment as I haven't played played this one, I know Villain pit seemed unfair but was actually well balanced - food came at the right pointt and the fights were doable. There is a fine line between frustrating and unfair, and sometimes it's perception. Certainly Zed might be the only one to do dungeons in this way, and by now people know what to expect, so is there a reason to force a change in the intent?

However, I think Zed you are setting yourself up for a niche market. Alot of people have little free time, so a demanding or punishing dungeon that requires restarting can be offputting. Then again, that hasn't hurt the sales of Demon's Souls!

Or, to put it another way, I seem to be avoiding getting back to my proper work now I've got stuff ready to go out the door. So yeah, I'll stop now! :)
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by PaulH »

Zed, we aren't having a go at you, but trying to offer constructive criticism.

People do not all play at the same speed, and your dungeon sort of limits people to a particular style of play which is putting people off. Sure we don't want all dungeons to work on exactly the same principles, and some dungeons do work well in this way, but I think there needs to be more flexibility. As I said before, integrating some of your puzzles into a larger dungeon with more of a story would work well for many and allow them to follow their own course (ie training, exploring).

One of the first traps I fell into was not supplying enough food in my dungeons. I thought it was enough, but then again I wasn't exploring the dungeon or working out puzzles as I knew the answers. It took a few revisions before my playtesters were happy!

Maybe more characters? 3 or 4 isn't really enough in my opinion, and offering one with 5 hp while offers a hard challenge limits things further. Many times one monster bite kills even the top characters. There is a difference between hard and frustrating.

One solution to food is to make the player work for it - offer some hardish monsters that drop food items that reginerate. Offer coins to buy food (when the alternative could be say ful bombs).
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Zed5Duke »

Here is food statistic (this element is well balanced)
-1/3 is hidden or beyond puzzle/trap
-1/3 is holding or protect by monster
-1/3 just lay on floor
-2/3 is poisoned

In fact its easy because at level 3 you dont worry about poison (just understand scroll) and later food increase in amount and energy value.

---

I have idea for dungeon with this stats (better balance and different playstyle)

-1/2 items lay on floor (and belong to dead champion) but food its rotten (poison), and equipment is rusty, tattered (broken after battle)
-1/2 all valuable stuff (also just gold treasure) beyond puzzle or boss monster

And there is no puzzle or hard enemy to next level, just labirynth with stairs down. Ok so player may go trough all labirynth easy, but he will be stoped by lack of equipment, and sometime need solve puzzle or kill tough monster. In this system you dont need to kill and solve everything.

Also removed grapple, and beside stairs alternate way down level by pit, there is no return and everything hard (puzzle, boss, trap) and good (treasure, valuable equipment) you may expect by jumping to pit.

Usual level: labirynth with weak monsters and almost useless equipment, then choice stairs down or pit. You may go down by stairs or jump where expect treasure and difficulties. When solve it open way to labirynth where again the same choice. Player may finish game with that amount of treasures as he is able, even with nothing just hungry wearing dirty pants and branch. Now task is not to kill last boss like in usual game, but find that much gold as possible.

Its good because its for all players from weak to experienced. Uh and there will be rank statistic and game end, which will be count by amount of treasures (just any item with treasure name) 1: beggar 2: peasant .. 10 knight .. 20 champion .. 30 lord.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by beowuuf »

Sounds interesting,... although I'll miss my war grapple :)
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Jan »

Oh, great, more poisonous food! :) After two apples, I'm usually poisoned like a Russian spy in London! :mrgreen:
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by linflas »

At scorpion level, my strong character who survived from death hundreds of times by lack of food, killed a demon, a scorpion, tons of mummies and skeletons will die in a few minutes because of... water. What a brillant ending ! I'm too far into the labyrinth to start again, so I give up for this one and am very disappointed, because puzzles were very good.

Image
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Jan »

Aww. That hurts. A few questions for Linflas:

1) You don't have any wizard levels? Why?

2) Did you find any other water fountains except the first level? From what you wrote I guess that not. I'm on level 15 or 17 and I had to get back for water to the first level - a bit annoying. I remember that there was a fountain on level 10 or so in the previous version, but Zed probably removed it - or it is well hidden.

3) What level are you on? You must be very deep!

I agree that the puzzles are very interesting.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by beowuuf »

I hate hat the RTC engine went for lack of food/water killing you - in original DM you could survive one with stamina potions (and you could be on 1/2 stamina too)
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by linflas »

Jan wrote:1) You don't have any wizard levels? Why?
I never stop and tell me "hey let's gain some wizard levels" or any other class if there's no need in the story. Except the snake staff i can't use, i never needed fireballs or similar to fight.
Jan wrote:2) Did you find any other water fountains except the first level?
No, but i filled my waterskin once an drank reasonably. What is unfair with water is that you must dodge the first demon (unkillable i suppose) to reach the upper levels... so i did it once only, thinking that there may be another fountain later.
Jan wrote:3) What level are you on? You must be very deep!
I haven't counted, probably something like 20.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Jan »

I'm now one level bellow the first scorpion (it's a strange level) and have one water flask and one last gulp in the water-skin. Aww. The demon on one of the upper levels is an ugly guy, isn't he? I don't want to go back... :?
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Jan »

And - finished! :)

Finished in 4 hours and 20 minutes (one of the longest Zed's dungeons).

Many levels were monotonous and repetitive, but the ending was quite interesting and cool. I liked it, although the final bosses were a bit weak.

Water was the biggest challenge - at the end, I had only one remaining water flask, and the only fountain was dozens of levels above.

I enjoyed (again) Zed's sense of humour - the messages on scrolls, the items (eating dead mouse), and the names of the creatures made me ROFL -
Spoiler
Brutal dentist, Toilet manager, Anorexia nervosa, Pudding, Vital Olaf, Master Yoda, Skeletron, etc.
So - again - thank you, Zed, for this dungeon!

PS: @Linflas: The end is only two or three levels bellow the scorpion.
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Re: [RTC] Skeleton Key (1.03)

Post by Zed5Duke »

In fireball room with demon there is clue behind wall
Spoiler
last two no ammo
and here is tactic to kill him: he is tough and fireproof, only way is to kill him by close combat, ok but there is no space
Spoiler
you need relase fireballs near alcove and lure him there
In update version i leaved only one fountain to give extra challenge, but ok i see many players dont like too much difficulties.
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