Escape from Order's Prison (GENERAL THREAD) (RTC)

[Soaponarope]

Download here:
Download this dungeon from this Shared OneDrive (in the 'Custom Dungeons' folder)

Hints & Tips thread:
http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 31&t=28951

Updated version available. Monster spawning reduced in some areas, difficulty tweaks, added hints, small fixes. Smaller size due to sound converting.


The dungeon is very large and quite difficult, though has several convenience features like shortcuts and teleport spells. It is much larger than the original game, and will likely take around the same time as DM+CSB together to complete. There are 17 large levels, though due to the fact you teleport around a lot like in CSB, it seems more like 100 small levels which later connect to each other. It uses standard graphics from all three original games(with a few additions) and a mix of original and custom sounds.

Despite the graphics being the same, most everything has been redone. All monsters except screamers are cloned and all items except for some basic clothing have been reworked. Some of these changes are minor,(like most starting monsters just have health and resistance tweaks), while others function very differently(such as necromancers who teleport around summoning undead). Hundreds of new attack methods have been made to make a wide variety of items and things to do. Many game mechanics have been altered to make things more balanced (for example ninjas I felt were useless in the original game) or diverse (all weapons were pretty close to being the same in the original).

There are 58 spells, 50+ monsters, 19 characters, and hundreds of items. It uses three tilesets, though mostly the standard one.

Unlike the original games, who you have in your party will affect the game. Characters may give hints or their opinions and certain items or areas in the dungeon can only be reached by certain characters. Not everything can be obtained in one playthrough; to make the game more replayable and characters more unique. For this reason the reincarnate feature has been disabled. Also some characters will not join with each other, though there is still a wide variety of possible parties. I strongly recommend taking a full group of four, though it is not required. Dialogue will assume at least two members.

The first part of the game is fairly linear and similar to the original game in how it's played. Later on the dungeon becomes very non linear and splits off into a dozen ways to go, with a central hub area that can be used as a storeroom, and can be teleported back to. In my opinion the game gets much better once it gets to this non linear stage, as I learned how to do more advanced things. I figured I should keep the first part more simplistic as players build up their characters, so the puzzles and such are more like the original (though more challenging).

The start of the game can still be kind of tough at times due to the fact your characters are so weak and a few hits can kill them, though you get a lot tougher once you start gaining levels, and the first few levels come fast. I don't think it's too hard, but if you have any trouble with certain areas/monsters let me know.

Puzzles in the game are equally challenging, and the first real puzzle area may be difficult for some. It uses the simplest of mechanics but is rather complex, and it's possible to make it a lot harder than it was meant to be. My first play tester got stuck here and it has since been toned down, but I will need feedback on whether people find these type of combination puzzles frustrating or fun.
As the game progresses some puzzles become more similar to point/click adventure games, as I learned how to do more "outside the box" mechanics.

This game took me a very long time to complete and I hope it is enjoyed by the community here. I will be checking in often to answer questions and give hints.

[Soaponarope]

A note about food-

Characters require different amounts of food, most are subtle, though the character Canzeln requires four times as much as a typical human. This will pose an added extra challenge of constantly needing to find food quickly. The beginning has limited food (fine amount for typical party, though for Canzeln and three others its just barely enough). Later on food becomes less an issue due to respawning edible monsters.

Though a nice extra challenge once you know the dungeon somewhat, you probably don't want this playing for the first time. I played Canzeln on my last playthrough, and though he is a powerful and interesting character, I advise new players not to take him in case they get a bit lost.

[Zed5Duke]

Sound good, will try it later.

[raixel]

Downloading now. Will let you know what I think. From your description though, this could be the next Conflux.

[Jan]

Yes, the description seems pretty impressive. I hope to find some time and play it this week. Thanks for the game beforehand, anyway!

[Soaponarope]

Though I'm guessing most of you do this anyway, just a reminder to please save on several slots. Though I have tested it a ton, other people may still find issues and I don't want anyone to get stuck.

As far as I'm aware the only way to get stuck is by relocking doors with lockpicks from the other side, then dropping the lock picks, then teleporting to a location before this door. If anyone does this, they deserve to get stuck. In general don't drop lockpicks or skeleton key, as they are used many times.

There are places you can access that are meant to be out of your league however, such as the knights at the beginning(though this comes with warning).

Have fun!

[raixel]

LOL, I just ran into the 'knights at the beginning'. Thanks for the warning ;P. Of course Im the type that if I see a sign that says "DANGER DOWN THIS WAY DO NOT GO OR YOU WILL DIE!" I, of course, have to go there.

On a side note, the 'beast of insatiable hunger' char (dont remember exact name) appears to be unplayable, due to his hunger. But maybe thats just me.

[Gambit37]

Sopaonarope talked about the hungry character further up the page...

[Soaponarope]

LOL, I just ran into the 'knights at the beginning'. Thanks for the warning ;P. Of course Im the type that if I see a sign that says "DANGER DOWN THIS WAY DO NOT GO OR YOU WILL DIE!" I, of course, have to go there.

I am that type as well, and I expected people will go in. It's just rather a warning to save the game there, so players don't get frustrated if they let them out early.

On a side note, the 'beast of insatiable hunger' char (dont remember exact name) appears to be unplayable, due to his hunger. But maybe thats just me.

He is not unplayable, I beat the game with him and three others, and did okay with food, though I also know the dungeon and all it's secrets very well! But yes, he is only recommened once you know the dungeon. Think of him more as an advanced challenge character.

[Chaos-Shaman]

Just had a go at it. Thanks Soaponarope. 17 levels indeed.

[Soaponarope]

Does this mean you played and finished the game already!? If so, I'm surprised to have only just now heard from you.

[Lord_BoNes]

12.9mb! Holy crap! You say that you haven't used that many custom graphics & sounds, how big is the actual TXT file for your dungeon? I personally would look into that... I only use PNG files for graphics (keeps the filesize right down, a 700+kb file can become less than 20kb) and MP3 files for pretty much all my sounds (again for filesize, 200+kb can become less than 20kb aswell). I've got a fair bit of custom graphics & sounds myself, but my dungeon file compiles to about 1-2mb.

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention, where PNGs are concerned, always save before adding any (the editor can sometimes crash when loading a PNG) if the editor crashes, then open the PNG in windows paintbrush and simply re-save it. It seems that when some paint programs save a PNG, they save it in an incompatible way that kills the engine

[Soaponarope]

The txt is over a meg and I used quite a bit of custom sounds.

12.9 mb is nothing these days though, I didn't think anyone would care about keeping the size down.

I recently downloaded some games off steam for a whopping 35 gigs.

[Lord_BoNes]

Some people (like myself) have a strict amount of downloading that they can do (I'm on prepaid internet, if I overuse it, I lose it until I put more credit on it)... so, yes, I'd have to say that there are still people out there that care. I'm not degrading your work, just saying that you could achieve the exact same results for probably less than 10-15% of its original size. On top of that, smaller files usually load faster.

Think about this for a moment, if you can download a map that's 1-2mb in a minute or so, instead of having to wait several minutes for the file to download (and have more download usage used)... you'd appreciate the extra effort the creator has put in.

[Soaponarope]

I didn't mean that in a negative way, just that I didn't really think about keeping the size down. I noticed that the other large dungeons lately are larger in size.

The sounds are thus either as is from the source and not converted or recorded by me.

I'll consider this in the future.

[Lord_BoNes]

Where other dungeons are concerned, yours is about the largest I'll go. Considering, if you compact things, you could squeeze what would normally be over 100-150mb of data into that 12.9mb dungeon file... now, doesn't that sound inviting?

[Gambit37]

Where other dungeons are concerned, yours is about the largest I'll go. Considering, if you compact things, you could squeeze what would normally be over 100-150mb of data into that 12.9mb dungeon file... now, doesn't that sound inviting?

I guess you won't be playing mine then... It's music that takes up a lot of space. Even one or two long MP3 tracks at reasonable quality will take up around 2-3MB each. The only way around that is to used MODS or MIDIs but it's very hard finding good quality, relevant music in that format.

I have a lot of scene setting stuff at full 640x480 resolution: even with clever techniques to reduce the filesize while maintaining quality, these are still largish images.

I concede that some of this stuff might be considered unimportant compared to the dungeon itself. However, I've always been more interested in making a full experience rather than just a dungeon, and all the extra imagery and sound is a big part of that. I imagine my dungeon will be over 50MB when complete. If you give me your address Lord_Bones, I'll send it to you on a disk

[Lord_BoNes]

@Gambit: Yes, but you've gone to extraordinary measures to ensure that your dungeon IS as small a filesize as it can be. I did say "about the largest" and there would obviously be exceptions to this... I know that you've poured soooo much time and effort into your dungeon that I'd see your dungeon as an exception. The main reason for this is that I've spoken to you on a few occasions about your dungeon, and it's sparked alot of my interest, most dungeon designers wouldn't go to the effort that you do, and therefore wouldn't grab my attention as much if I see a 50mb dungeon file.

I understand your point, a decent quality dungeon is usually very large in size... but in this particular case, the dungeon file could be significantly smaller, and that would assist members like myself who have limited internet usage.
As I said above:

Think about this for a moment, if you can download a map that's 1-2mb in a minute or so, instead of having to wait several minutes for the file to download (and have more download usage used)... you'd appreciate the extra effort the creator has put in.

I was simply meaning that people are more likely to download a smaller file, that's all. I wasn't trying to be insulting or anything like that... and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

[Gambit37]

No offence taken at all. Anyway, we're going offtopic. Back to Soaps custom dungeon...

[Chaos-Shaman]

It must be a pain with restriction on file sizes for downloading. How do you update your computer? Those file sizes are bigger than ever. This concerns me a little here. So a well compressed 50 to 100 meg dungeon with a fast download and loads of extra work is useless to some. That's a shame.

[Chaos-Shaman]

I like the Dungeon so far soapy. Those puzzles seem designed for the avid DM player. So what's the suggested playing time to finish it?

[Soaponarope]

Hard for me to say on the playing time, as I knew everything and thus will have took a lot less time than others. But definitely longer than DM.

Glad your liking it. I was confused by your first post as I misunderstood "17 levels indeed" as you saying you played through them all.

I was thinking, "Wow, really? You must be the greatest player ever to have already finished this one without a single question."

[Soaponarope]

Bones,

I put a lot of time and effort in to my dungeon as well, as have the others here. I simply wasn't aware the size was an issue to some.

Even one or two long MP3 tracks at reasonable quality will take up around 2-3MB each.

Yes, I have one of those in which takes up space. Though not really integral to the dungeon, a full length song plays in the credits cause I thought it was funny. This can be removed to cut the size I suppose.

Also I use ambient sounds on certain levels which take up a good amount of room.

So though I can cut the size some by converting, it's not as much as you think unless this stuff is removed.

By the way what program are you using to convert wav. to mp3. I am looking for one and they are either not working or want me to buy it. Windows media player I know used to do this, but it seems they removed this option in the latest version. Probably cause they want you to buy something else...

[Gambit37]

I use Sony Sound Forge for all my audio editing, but it's not cheap.

I did a quick search for Free Audio Converter and found these.
http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dv ... verter.htm
http://free-audio-editor.com/otherfreep ... verter.htm

I've not tried them -- and be sure to virus and malware check, they might be loaded with nastiness....

[Lord_BoNes]

I use Goldwave mostly. But, sometimes (if Goldwave is having a b**ch fit) I use Winamp. Just look around for torrents for Goldwave, and then find a copy of the LameMP3 DLL (otherwise it can't save in Mp3 format) and chuck it in the "Files" folder under where you install Goldwave.

[Soaponarope]

Hmm, not a fan of torrents for multiple reasons.

I did grab that freeware you posted Gambit and it's does the job, if a bit annoying(why does everything want to install it's own toolbar these days?) Thanks I didn't find this in my search.

Though I noticed it wasn't cutting down on size much at all, and that's because though they are wav. files they are quite compressed already and have lower bit rates (about the same as a common mp3). Only going to see a huge difference in size when the wavs. are at their standard high bit rates of 1411kbps or so.

[Gambit37]

I could write a whole document on how best to optimise your sounds, but unfortunately I don't have the time. (It's quite an art in itself). Try googling for help?

[raixel]

Hey Soap. I got a crash when fighting the trolins on the 2nd level. Specifically I was picking up their clubs and throwing them around.
I dont know if its RTC or what, but I thought you should know in case its something you can fix. Heres the text of the diagnostic file.

RTC (V0.49) Diagnostic file - Tue Mar 22 09:34:59 2011

Error:
an access violation exception.

Stack Dump:
RTC.GetTileWallset(int 1547);
RTC.DrawDungeonView(char 6, char 27, char 3, char 0);
RTC.ProgStateInDungeon();
RTC.DoFrame(int 50);
RTC.WinMain();


Also something interesting happend a bit before, dont know if its related. I was standing ion the door tile of where the trolins are. There were a couple of clubs and worm rounds there and a trolin behind and in front of me, I was facing 'away' from the door back towards the previous area (sorry I dont have a compass so cant tell you exactly what direction) I was using the 'fear' spell on the trolin behind me, then turned around and killed the trolin in front of me. I threw the clubs and rounds and they disappeared into thin air as soon as I released them (didnt leave my tile) Then the trolin that was behind me appeared directly in front of me. I moved a couple squares and threw a couple more clubs (not at anything in particular, just chucking em) and thats when the crash happened.


EDIT: Ok. Its happening every time I step in this certain square now. Do you want the save file?

[Soaponarope]

Wow, er, this sounds bad. Right as you got back to playing too Sorry Raixel. Yes I would like to look at the save file, though I don't know if I will have any idea how to go about fixing whatever just happened.

I did experience something sounding similar when playing the original DM. At the start of the worm level, where there were a couple rock monsters, I was throwing/shooting stuff at them and all the missle items just vanished after being shot. Then the rock monster just vanished without leaving a cloud or rocks. I reloaded a previous game before going down to lvl 3 and this didn't happen a second time. So it sounds like this may be a freak bug in RTC, though I don't know the cause.

Do you have a save before the strange event with disappearing objects? Sounds like whatever happened here caused saves after this to be bugged.

I will see what I can do, though I could use some help here if anyone knows anything about this, or what the error message means exactly.

[raixel]

Upon further experimentation, i have found out which tile causes the crash every single time. I made a save standing directly in front of said tile, then reloaded that save. It still crashed. I went back to an old save(before bug) I had and ran to the spot and it was fine. So I believe you are right and it happened at some point after the disappearing bug and corrupted all my saves from that point (the tile is right next to where the bug happened, but oddly enought wasnt the tile I was throwing things at, it would have been off to my char's left sides). I can email you the save if you want, all you have to do is step forward one square to get the crash. I wasnt TOO far in the game fortunately, but I do hope you can help. My last priest level gained a LOT of stats. .