Worst Company in America

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raixel
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by raixel »

Ohhh, well that makes sense.

Yeah, true. And thats what causes EA to be like it is. I think eventually though, they'll piss enough people off that it'll change. Hopefully. All I have to say is thank god for the huge upsurge in indie games, and Steam (which makes said inde games easy to get ahold of)
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Gambit37 »

Sophia is going to have a field day with the new SimCity reviews and the absolute destruction that EA is getting in the press!

Mostly 1 star reviews on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/SimCity-Limited-E ... 007FTE2VW/
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3HI7AMO8M ... 7AMO8MJ9PF

Polygon's "re-rate the game on an ongoing basis" policy is interesting for SimCity. The first rated it as 9.5, then dropped to 8, now it's at 4!!!!
http://www.polygon.com/game/simcity-2013/2630

The modern gaming copy protection of "must have always on internet" is only going to work if the infrastructure is robust enough. Every time a new game is released where the servers can't handle this setup, it's another nail in the coffin of this model of "copy protection". They really should just stop all this crap or companies like EA are going to vanish up their own backsides: if there's no customers left to buy your products because you pissed them all off, you have no reason to exist.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Sophia »

I actually forgot that I had made this thread or I certainly would've commented about that here. :mrgreen:

It's a gigantic mess, and it is somewhat depressing to see this game that I grew up with and loved have such a piece of crap bastardization as its "latest and greatest," but if the end result of this is more people deciding not to buy from EA, then... well, that's at least something.

As if this wasn't enough of a debacle already (but with EA, there's always a way to stoop lower, isn't there?) they at one point stated "If you regrettably feel that we let you down, you can of course request a refund for your order... though we're currently still in the process of resolving this issue." However, what they didn't say was that, yes, you're free to request a refund, but they're probably going to say no. (Eventually, that post was taken down, now they just link to their refund policy which basically says "All sales are final. We have your money, hahaha!")

This about sums it up:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2416387,00.asp

(But hey, when the community turns against you, make some fake accounts and fire back! Just make sure you're signed into the right ones...
http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/gal ... 4.jpg.html )
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Seriously Unserious »

I love this post! :D

I'm also NOT a fan of EA. [EA RANT]Their business model reminds me of the crocked E, yeah, I'm referring to Enron, I'm sure everyone here remembers Enron. I hope the management at EA that's making these crooked decisions quickly remembers Enron, or perhaps EA will eventually suffer the same fate as Enron. Shutting it's doors forever among scandal, lawsuits, criminal charges and disgrace.

I used to like sports video games, then EA got a strangle hold on that genre and ruined it with their "EA Sports" games, and either bought everyone else out, or squeezed everyone else out. I've played a few of the EA Sports crap games and was extremely disappointed with them. The controls were ugly, and I frequently found myself getting frustrated by the players I'm controlling not doing what I wanted them to do. Then there's the management side of sports. I love games that either have that as a well-made option, or where that's a primary feature.

Then came The Sims 2. In itself it's a good game, don't get me wrong, but I detest the sales model EA used for that game, and is using for The Sims 3, and their latest debauchery of Will Wright's premier creation, Sim City. Interesting that he recently left EA, now with the debacle of the latest Sim City going on.
EAImage[/EA Rant]


BTW Sophia, thank you so much for that link to that article about other city building games, there's a couple in there that I'm definitely interested in. :)
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by beowuuf »

Was it my imagination or did I see that people who were pushing for a refund were actually being threatened with a suspension of their Origin account? ie don't like the one game, how about we block all your games?
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Gambit37 »

Definitely not your imagination -- assuming that the transcripts of help-chats were not faked, I've seen at least two where the EA rep said a user's origin account would be "affected" if they tried to get a refund.

@SU: You don't need to quote an entire post when your reply appears directly after it. I've deleted that as it's unnecessary, thanks :)
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Sophia »

Seriously Unserious wrote:I used to like sports video games, then EA got a strangle hold on that genre and ruined it with their "EA Sports" games, and either bought everyone else out, or squeezed everyone else out.
Oh yes. I think that Madden has only gotten worse ever since they signed that deal that let them be the only official NFL game. No need to innovate when you're the only one, I guess... imagine if they'd spent all that money they spent on exclusivity on actually making the game better. :roll:
Gambit37 wrote:Definitely not your imagination -- assuming that the transcripts of help-chats were not faked, I've seen at least two where the EA rep said a user's origin account would be "affected" if they tried to get a refund.
The issue was that the person threatened to chargeback that transaction with their bank. It's standard procedure for digital distributors to ban the account involved when that happens. As far as I know, they aren't banning people merely for asking for refunds. (Not that I'm defending them. It's just that they've done enough crap that is legitimately and provably bad it doesn't help the "anti-EA" side any to accuse them of things they didn't actually do)
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Sophia wrote:The issue was that the person threatened to chargeback that transaction with their bank. It's standard procedure for digital distributors to ban the account involved when that happens. As far as I know, they aren't banning people merely for asking for refunds.
As I understand it:

1) EA produce a game that is not fit for purpose
2) Customer asks for refund, EA refuse.
3) Customer makes chargeback through credit-card company to--quite rightly--get their money back as the product does not work.
4) Customer is penalised by EA for the chargeback by having their account closed, and thus any access to their other games.

How is that in any way an ethical stance for EA to take? Their product is broken and they know it.

I guess the problem is that most digital goods aren't covered by distance-selling regulations and are usually not eligible for a refund. But you won't necessarily know that the product is faulty until AFTER you've downloaded/bought and played the game. In situations like these, the honourable thing for a company to do is make the refund anyway. But we know EA is not honourable.

The last (and probably only) EA game I bought was Spore. I had to install all the EA download manager junk (it was before Origin). When I reinstalled my computer a few months ago, I lost Spore and all the install files but I couldn't be arsed to work out how to get it back: I'm never installing any EA nonsense on my computer ever again.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Gambit37 wrote: I'm never installing any EA nonsense on my computer ever again.
I'm with you on that.

My sister bought a new computer and Sims 3 and played around with it for a few days but wasn't happy with it, even though she was a huge fan of Sims 2, it just had too many features chopped off, which seems to be EA's standard practice now. Get the customer to invest a large sum of money in a chopped down game, have a lot of visible, but unusable, features, then charge almost as much as for the original game to get those features activated.

As much as I personally enjoyed Sims 2, and like the upgrade to the features in Sims 3, I won't be buying it or installing it on my computer. If EA were to sell it as a complete game with all the features active at the time of purchase, and wasn't being to dictatorial and suppressive to their customers, I would definitely have been interested in buying Sims 3, and the latest Sim City. Thing being as they are though, not a chance!
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by beowuuf »

It's the state of second hand games selling, piracy, etc that has brought in all these anti-consumer measures. I believe you can't even get a refund on an opened box game anymore? Or is that just in America? Whether it's an over-reaction, money crabbing, justified, or some point in between is up for debate, of course.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Sophia »

Gambit37 wrote:As I understand it:

1) EA produce a game that is not fit for purpose
2) Customer asks for refund, EA refuse.
3) Customer makes chargeback through credit-card company to--quite rightly--get their money back as the product does not work.
4) Customer is penalised by EA for the chargeback by having their account closed, and thus any access to their other games.

How is that in any way an ethical stance for EA to take? Their product is broken and they know it.
Right, taken as a whole, their conduct has been completely unethical. I don't disagree with you.

All I was saying was that it's a fairly standard procedure to for digital sellers to ban the account in the case of chargebacks. Valve, Amazon, etc. do it too. This is purely to defend against credit card fraud. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, if the seller provided some recourse when a product is sold that is clearly defective-- which EA is not doing in this case. And that part is the real problem here, not really the fact that they handle chargebacks the same way as pretty much everyone else in their industry.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Sophia »

beowuuf wrote:It's the state of second hand games selling, piracy, etc that has brought in all these anti-consumer measures. I believe you can't even get a refund on an opened box game anymore? Or is that just in America? Whether it's an over-reaction, money crabbing, justified, or some point in between is up for debate, of course.
Piracy is a convenient scapegoat for anti-consumer crap.

Some people will always want something for nothing, but there's nothing to really be done about them. The real problem (that software vendors hate to acknowledge) is that pirates don't just provide something for free, they make it more convenient. Instead of having to deal with a bunch of DRM and garbage, you just install and play. What actually thwarts piracy is providing a reasonably-priced product more conveniently than the pirates can. That's why services like Steam and GOG have done so well.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by beowuuf »

It's why apple succeeded too, though their closed ecosystem bothers me more than something like Steam. Still not quite sure why. Perhaps Steam lets me play on any system, itunes forces me to use an iPod and an iPod forces me to use iTunes.
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Sophia wrote:What actually thwarts piracy is providing a reasonably-priced product more conveniently than the pirates can. That's why services like Steam and GOG have done so well.
^^^ This, exactly.

EA and the other big companies could self-destruct with all their anti-consumer practices. There are very clear models out there that work very well as proven by Steam and Gog, yet EA seem intent on failing to understand them, and thus are failing to understand consumers and what consumers want. Hopefully this most recent debacle will finally give them some real insight into the damage their approach is doing. (Of course, it likely won't because there are STILL too many morons giving money to EA in the first place. I really wish consumers would REALLY speak with their wallets and stop buying EA games, instead of giving in to their basic desire of "Gotta have that cool new game.".....)
beowuuf wrote:It's why apple succeeded too, though their closed ecosystem bothers me more than something like Steam. Still not quite sure why. Perhaps Steam lets me play on any system, itunes forces me to use an iPod and an iPod forces me to use iTunes.
That's exactly why I've never bought into the Apple machine and why I've never owned an iPod. And it looks like it's going to go the same way with Microsoft and their Windows 8 marketplace.

It's getting to the point where I'm going to be severely restricted in what I'll be happy to buy in the future! I'm not looking forward to the next few years -- unless things like the SimCity debacle will start to bring some sense back to the industry big-players...
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by beowuuf »

My first iPod was a gift, so I put up with the design crap (plus you could load it without iTunes). The new iPod I bought since there was nothing else available closeby right before last new year was an imprvement design wise, then only when I tried to load it did I get the suckerpunch of iTunes only interfacing.

I've just been forced to quickly change my laptop, and so of course was forced to have Win 8. Thing is, the simpler interface is actually osmehting my mum would probably prefer, so I took the chance that even if I hated it, it would be for the reasons my mother would like it, so we could swap laptops.

Win 7 - aside from some network security quirks that annoy me - has behaved itself well. I cna mostly slap win 8 in to some semblance of useability, however it's by making it as much like 7 as possible. I don't use my laptop for much, so I haven't truly found the limits and blocks that might be in win 8 for serious use.
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Re: Worst Company in America

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As a brief diversion, some clever souls have already ported the problematic SimCity 2013 to HTML! See here!
http://tholman.com/playable-simcity-2013/
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Gambit37 »

Oh, this is interesting. EA now say "have a free game on us". Not "Yes, you can have a refund" or "Yes, we'll look at an offline patch", but "Have a free game you probably don't want and that we know most people won't redeem." Fecking chancers!

http://www.ea.com/news/a-simcity-update ... ur-trouble
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Gambit37 wrote:As a brief diversion, some clever souls have already ported the problematic SimCity 2013 to HTML! See here!
http://tholman.com/playable-simcity-2013/
Ha! That's great! Plays just like the real thing. :shock: :mrgreen:

In response, they're really rolling out the astroturf:
http://www.gamekicker.com/gaming-news/e ... -aggregate
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Sophia wrote:All I was saying was that it's a fairly standard procedure to for digital sellers to ban the account in the case of chargebacks. Valve, Amazon, etc. do it too. This is purely to defend against credit card fraud. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, if the seller provided some recourse when a product is sold that is clearly defective-- which EA is not doing in this case. And that part is the real problem here, not really the fact that they handle chargebacks the same way as pretty much everyone else in their industry.
Not necessarily. I bought a DVD on eBay, and when the vendor didn't deliver or respond to my inquiries, I contacted eBay about it and reported that vendor, then contacted my credit card provider and had a charge-back done on that vendor without any bans on my eBay account. It was the vendor who got banned.
beowuuf wrote:It's why apple succeeded too, though their closed ecosystem bothers me more than something like Steam. Still not quite sure why. Perhaps Steam lets me play on any system, itunes forces me to use an iPod and an iPod forces me to use iTunes.
That's not entirely true. I have an i-Tunes account, but I don't use an iPod. If you right click on your m4a formatted song, you can choose an option to convert it to mp3 format, and then it's usable on almost anything. The reverse is also true, i-Tunes can read mp3 formatted music so you can upload music from any device to i-Tunes as well. It's just not as simple as doing an i-Tunes to iPod connection and requires more manual steps, but it can be done.
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Gambit37 wrote:As a brief diversion, some clever souls have already ported the problematic SimCity 2013 to HTML! See here!
http://tholman.com/playable-simcity-2013/
:lol: I tried that link and got a message saying I won't be able to try to play again for 30 minutes! :lol:
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Sophia wrote:In response, they're really rolling out the astroturf:
http://www.gamekicker.com/gaming-news/e ... -aggregate
What's the article say?

When I clicked on that link all I got was a blank grey screen in the text area.
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Seriously Unserious wrote:Not necessarily. I bought a DVD on eBay, and when the vendor didn't deliver or respond to my inquiries, I contacted eBay about it and reported that vendor, then contacted my credit card provider and had a charge-back done on that vendor without any bans on my eBay account. It was the vendor who got banned.
That is something completely different from what I was talking about. I was referring to sellers who sell digital (i.e., not physical objects like DVDs) items directly-- you're talking about buying an actual physical item and going through an intermediary like eBay where a third party actually delivers (or doesn't deliver) the goods.
Seriously Unserious wrote:When I clicked on that link all I got was a blank grey screen in the text area.
Huh, it works fine for me.
But anyway, it's just an article about an EA and/or Maxis employee being banned from a prominent gaming forum for acting like just an interested person-- 'distorting the news aggregate,' as they put it.
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Interesting about itunes having a converter for mp3, i will check it out - I used winamp to cheat that before, streaming off the ipod

And old ipods could be loaded from other programmes, but a year ago the gen 6 ones couldn't be, that's what i meant regarding vice versa
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Sophia wrote:Huh, it works fine for me.
But anyway, it's just an article about an EA and/or Maxis employee being banned from a prominent gaming forum for acting like just an interested person-- 'distorting the news aggregate,' as they put it.
Well, fancy that :shock: an EA employee getting banned for spamming about his/her company, what a shocker. :lol:

Interesting about itunes having a converter for mp3, i will check it out - I used winamp to cheat that before, streaming off the ipod

And old ipods could be loaded from other programmes, but a year ago the gen 6 ones couldn't be, that's what i meant regarding vice versa
Ah, ok, so Apple went proprietary on the software for loading the iPod. I didn't know that, but then again, I don't use iPod's so how would I? :P
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Re: Worst Company in America

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This is amusing and embarrasing for EA:

Modder Runs SimCity Offline, Maxis Remains Silent
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03 ... ns-silent/
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Re: Worst Company in America

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On one hand you can say that the stupid online-only system is EA's perogative: if you don't want to play online, don't buy it. No one will force you to buy the game. And that would be easy to swallow if it was not for the fact that EA are buying up some really loved developers and destroying them.
Gambit37 wrote:This is amusing and embarrasing for EA:
[snip]
Wow, blatant lies. :? I wonder how much more they can get away with before their fanbase abandons them.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Sophia »

oh_brother wrote:I wonder how much more they can get away with before their fanbase abandons them.
Probably quite a bit, considering what they've already gotten away with.

This, after all, is not some isolated incident for EA. Let's not forget the Mass Effect 3 mess, the Dead Space 3 fiasco, the annual load of crap that is Madden, and, of course, Origin itself...
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Re: Worst Company in America

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Gambit37 wrote:This is amusing and embarrasing for EA:

Modder Runs SimCity Offline, Maxis Remains Silent
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03 ... ns-silent/
WOW, a dishonest company lying. What a shock. From that video of the hack, Sim City 2013 looks like it would be good if it weren't for all the lies, incompetent server management, and Machiavellian limitations on what the user can do with that game, with the promise that if you buy it in tiny little bits and pieces, each costing the price of a full game, you will eventually, in a few years, get a fun game, $400 dollars later that is.

What a load of crap. Take a fun game and break it down into a waste of time and money why don't you! :x

I'd say EA's management has gone insane and spread the contagion of insanity throughout the company. I can see why Will Wright left the company, he had to protect his sanity to be able to continue to make wonderful games like Sim City, The Sims, and many others. Good for you Will, I hope you catch on at another software developer who makes honest games, sold honestly and makes an honest buck doing it. The way it should be.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Sophia wrote:
oh_brother wrote:I wonder how much more they can get away with before their fanbase abandons them.
Probably quite a bit, considering what they've already gotten away with.

This, after all, is not some isolated incident for EA. Let's not forget the Mass Effect 3 mess, the Dead Space 3 fiasco, the annual load of crap that is Madden, and, of course, Origin itself...
The sad truth is there are too many people out there who mindlessly follow the big money advertising, buy something from a company they already know makes crap, then complain about it amongst themselves when what they just bought turns out to be crap, then go and buy the next mass marketed product from the same company again, and the cycle starts over again. The problem is not enough people actually look, they just follow whatever they're told to follow. That's why we get Enron's and EA's out there doing what they're doing, enough people let them get away with it for that kind of behavior to seem attractive to those of a criminal mindset.

Hopefully this latest fiasco will wake enough people up that they will actually start looking, and stop buying the EA crap, and force EA to either get back to producing quality software, or die. Considering the type of people left in EA, I'd say the more likely scenario would be for the company to self destruct spectacularly if people do wake up and stop supporting EA's behavior, or at least doing nothing about it. Judging by all the reaction so far, this may be that awakening, and that proverbial "last straw that broke the camel's back" and EA will either clean house, clean up their act, or fail spectacularly. I certainly hope so. I'd say it's still not too late for EA to save themselves by fixing their Sim City problem, and getting a sudden case of honesty. They definitely still have the resources and enough credibility that they could turn it around if they are willing to try. If EA does nothing about SIm City, and their next major release is another flop, I think you may see the beginning of the end of EA. There is a huge wave of angry backlash going on against EA after their miserable Sim City failure, and if they follow that up closely with another failure, that may just end up riding the wave of the Sim City backlash, and build up even stronger, and leave EA with suddenly dropping sales. Especially with the way EA is snubbing the major reviewers and media that hype their games for them. Do that enough times and good luck getting good reviews from them in the future.
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Re: Worst Company in America

Post by Gambit37 »

People who learn nothing from history are doomed to repeat it.
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