Features for DSB

[Lunever]

So, since I'm through with Nexus for now, I'll play DSB and it's current dungeons next (although it might be a couple of days til I have time to begin with DSB).

Doing so might be good to check once more for differences to original DM and see whether any of them need to be adressed.

But it might also be a good opportunity to see, whether DSB is good for other suggestions, some of them from other clones and games (even Dungeon Master Nexus contains a couple of good ideas), and some that never made their way into other clones. Some might just be stupid ideas nobody else except me would want. Some might be actually useful but never caught the interest of other clone programmers, and some haven't been suggested so far.

I'm aware that the answer to about any suggestions is "You can do that with dungeon mechanics", but there's a difference between having something implemented in the engine and converting half of each dungeon into a computing engine made of gigglers. Or modify each dungeon with LUA scripts. Having a couple of things some people like and some others don't would better be placed as an option in some option menu I think.

First question before making any suggestions at all is - what is DSB aiming for? Any DM clone so far had 2 detrimental goals: On the one hand be as true to the original as possible, on the other hand improve certain elements of the original, like technical stuff, graphics, sound, speed, complexity, user interface and so on.

Although not everything new was a good idea, Skullkeep and to a lesser degree Nexus contain game elements that have not been in DM1/CSB. Do you want to have them in DSB? (I certainly do, at least some of them).

I think of 2 weapon fighting or summoned minions, in regard to Skullkeep. Later canon spells per default.
Or the inverse approach to weapon speed of Nexus - you're not inactive for a fixed time after a weapon action, like running around defenseless for half an eternity after a short berzerking stroke, instead the weapon options return subsequently - after a few seconds you regain swing, after some more seconds you regain melee, and after some moments more you regain berzerk.

Also, character import/export is imho an important theme ever since the oldest computer RPGs. Even old Bard's Tale II let you port chars.
Difficulty adaptation is consequently an issue too if there is character import. It took some time and playtesting to finetune it, but imho RTC had a strong point there in the end.

Most important - monster AI. Imho that belongs to the most difficult stuff to implement, but also the most worthwhile. Smart monster AI scripts so much improve the challenge, because you just don't find an easy exploit in their behaviour. It makes them foes rather than targets. When I replayed Baldur's Gate Tutu with strongly modified AI scripts I once more noticed how much more rewarding it is to have worthy enemies. When I played recently Nexus I noticed, how easily bad AI scripts can ruin a fine game.

For DM and its clones there is much that can be done in regard to monster tactics. I haven't played much yet, so it'll take some time for me to evaluate the current AI, but the question here too is, whether the aim is to have monsters that are as DM-like as possible, or monsters that go beyond DM, maybe even an intelligence/wisdom stat for monsters. Monsters that have a mana reserve and regain it according to their wisdom. Monsters that slowly heal according to their vitality, like characters, and thus have a good reason to retreat when severely injured - and return later on, full of vengeance (currently fleeing is just for flair, but tactically useless). Monsters that will react by moving if they stand in a large hall and see an incoming missile flying in their front/perception vincinity. Monsters that will lurk behind corners, strike advancing adventurers and retreat round the next corner, ready to strike - instead of just advancing to attack or running to flee. Monsters that employ hit and run tactics for their ranged attacks - and so on.

Monster senses - DM distinguished at least between visual and non-visual, but monster perception could be so much more interesting. Audio - investigate a new source of sound. Hear party steps (inhibited by ninja levels, and by walls of course). Tremorsense - perceive party movement, uninhibited by walls.

Don't know, maybe some DM2 stuff already is possible, like apporting wolves?

Sides - Monsters that are allies (minions), monsters that fight each other. Could greatly enhance plot possibilities.

Z-Axis. Sure, a 2D-engine can't do the vertical stuff of some Nexus riddles in a sensible manner. But actually, what I liked most about the true 3D environment weren't the couple of vertical riddles (though some were interesting), but the view of large halls. You have a large hall with a bridge, or a broad chasm, you see at least its walls and maybe a monster walking there. Or you see a bridge over your head and a monster walking on it. A bit could be done also in 2D/pseudo-3D.
For example transparent pits, that will let you see the top of another ingame layer shaded darker and positioned deeper.

If you have actually read this entirely without shutting down your browser - would be interesting what idea you have where DSB generally will be going.

[Sophia]

Wow, what a post.

what is DSB aiming for? Any DM clone so far had 2 detrimental goals: On the one hand be as true to the original as possible, on the other hand improve certain elements of the original, like technical stuff, graphics, sound, speed, complexity, user interface and so on.

I'm trying to allow as many options as possible, while making the DSB base code as true to DM as possible. If that makes sense.

I think of 2 weapon fighting or summoned minions, in regard to Skullkeep. Later canon spells per default.
Or the inverse approach to weapon speed of Nexus - you're not inactive for a fixed time after a weapon action, like running around defenseless for half an eternity after a short berzerking stroke, instead the weapon options return subsequently - after a few seconds you regain swing, after some more seconds you regain melee, and after some moments more you regain berzerk.

This can all be done already via Lua modifications. Not what you wanted to hear, I know. However, I think there is a certain point when the right answer isn't to try to force new/exotic/non-DM-like features into the core engine or base code but rather to do something like make a "code library" available so that designers who want to use various advanced mechanics can just "plug in" what they want.

Also, character import/export is imho an important theme ever since the oldest computer RPGs. Even old Bard's Tale II let you port chars.
Difficulty adaptation is consequently an issue too if there is character import. It took some time and playtesting to finetune it, but imho RTC had a strong point there in the end.

Yes, character import and export is somewhere on my todo list.

Most important - monster AI.

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on DSB's AI after playing the game. It's one area where, rather than trying to be exactly true to DM, I tried to create the same approximate experience, while at the same time making the monsters sneakier and smarter.

the question here too is, whether the aim is to have monsters that are as DM-like as possible, or monsters that go beyond DM, maybe even an intelligence/wisdom stat for monsters.

Well, DSB monsters have flags like "stupid" or "crafty" that can influence their behavior, but that's probably not what you meant.

Monsters that slowly heal according to their vitality, like characters, and thus have a good reason to retreat when severely injured - and return later on, full of vengeance (currently fleeing is just for flair, but tactically useless).

Yes, this is definitely doable. I don't think I'd obfuscate it as much as "vitality," though-- I'd probably just give the monster a "regeneration rate" stat, and it would regenerate that number of HP per time interval. Per tick, ten ticks, per monster turn, I'm not sure what the best interval is.

Monsters that will react by moving if they stand in a large hall and see an incoming missile flying in their front/perception vincinity.

DSB monsters already do this. If it's a little hard to notice, I actually had to tone it down because initial tests had missiles almost worthless against monsters that could avoid them.

Monsters that will lurk behind corners, strike advancing adventurers and retreat round the next corner, ready to strike - instead of just advancing to attack or running to flee. Monsters that employ hit and run tactics for their ranged attacks - and so on.

The lurking around corners requires a more intelligent grasp of the dungeon layout than DSB monsters really have or could easily get right now, but they do already perform hit and run tactics if they're fast enough to do so. The "swarmy" and "paranoid" monster flags, in particular, will bring out this behavior. In the DM dungeon, you can see wasps/munchers, gigglers, and couatls behaving in this way.

Monster senses - DM distinguished at least between visual and non-visual, but monster perception could be so much more interesting. Audio - investigate a new source of sound. Hear party steps (inhibited by ninja levels, and by walls of course). Tremorsense - perceive party movement, uninhibited by walls.

Interesting. I wonder how it would actually affect the game, though.

Don't know, maybe some DM2 stuff already is possible, like apporting wolves?

I think it's all possible with the right amount of Lua hacking. I know ian_scho made some extensive hacks to monster_ai.lua to support friendly monsters, though I'm not sure how up to date that stuff is.

Z-Axis. Sure, a 2D-engine can't do the vertical stuff of some Nexus riddles in a sensible manner. But actually, what I liked most about the true 3D environment weren't the couple of vertical riddles (though some were interesting), but the view of large halls. You have a large hall with a bridge, or a broad chasm, you see at least its walls and maybe a monster walking there. Or you see a bridge over your head and a monster walking on it. A bit could be done also in 2D/pseudo-3D.

This would be really hard to do with the current renderer.

[Adamo]

Lunever, you can check and compare all DSB and CSBwin monster descriptions, flags, etc.:
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 53&t=28438

[Lunever]

Many options with a base code true to the original makes sense. What made DM so interesting was not only that for its time it was technically brilliant - it also had a brilliant rpg-wise internal math. The internal skill design with many items subtly increasing internal skills is great, as is the handling of effect stacking (from playing I guess much is Gaussian or logarithmical rather than linear) and the combat probabilities are also very well designed. So if what you're saying is that you want to stay true to that kind of design while at the same time trying to implement more smart components that utilize the fact that we have less ressources restrictions than FTL had back then, that perfectly makes sense

Speaking of it - how much of the original internal skills and skill modifications due to items do you use in DSB?

Nexus-Weapons: Interesting. How difficult would it be to create a LUA script that does the Nexus weapon speed - and am I correct in that such a script could be applied to all dungeons per default once I had such a script and would like to do so? Same goes for Skullkeep-like 2-weapon fighting.

Current AI - Well, since I don't want to get into DSB in just some 20 spare minutes (or when I should go to sleep ) but would rather like to start with a few hours uninterrupted, it might still take a couple of days, but once I'll have started I will have a close look at the AI from a players perspective. Usually I'm good at finding AI loopholes and exploits, so it could be nice to find some, report them and later on find them fixed and encounter new surprising monster behaviour next release and so on.
Of course I know that not every player likes the monsters to improve - and there should be caps. If every monster suddenly dodged everything the game wouldn't be compatible to new players anymore. But closing loopholes like that stupid circle-strafing I found mentioned earlier certainly is a good idea.

The AI flags you mention actually sound quite interesting. That's even better than an intelligence score, since they allow a dungeon designer to specify very precisely how a specific monster should behave.

Monster stats - certainly there can be a regeneration score. But having the same stats for characters and monsters further evolves a strong basic principle of DM: Mostly the same laws of virtual physics apply for characters and monsters alike. Monster and characters alike suffer from falls, crushing doors and sometimes even friendly fire. If you have stats like mana, wisdom and vitality you can introduce believable NPCs easily too. These values can be Mana/wisdom infinite and vitality zero as default, but a clever dungeon designer could utilize them. But for current tactical issues different stats might do it. A slow regeneration for normal, living beings would be a good mechanism. Retreating is for tending wounds and regrouping. Fleeing from an enemy that can heal wounds without any own healing ability is not exactly intelligent. Monsters that don't have infinite mana might also make some intersting fire-fights that aim for emptying the enemies mana before closing in. Of course, some monsters may be smart enough to withhold a reserve. And if the party retreats to regenerate mana, so do the foes while the party sleeps. How much of that is already doably with current stats, and how much would need more LUA?

Lurking around corners. Might not need as much grasp of the dungeon layout as it seems on a first glance. If the monster shares neither x- nor y-coordinate with the party, but has exclusively either an (x+1 or x-1) or an (y+1 or y-1) position compared to the party and there is a clear x- or y-path to the party from a tile adjacent to the monster, but a wall in the tile adjacent to the monster in the direction of the party, a "skirmish"-flag might make the monster face the wall - sidestep - fire - sidestep back behind the wall. If the monster can't fire it'll turn 90 deg and wait there until the party comes into reach or until the party appears in a different path of sight or enters a different tile adjacent or adjacent diagonally.
Probably half-gibbersih and utterly incompatibel with other flags, but you get the drift. Maybe an unnecessary thought though if other flag combinations actually make monsters do this already, as you mentioned - though the latter might only make them lurk behind corners and some other flag makes them fire and cover.

Tremoursense: If you know a monster relies on tremoursense only, you could retreat beyond its tremoursense reach, wait for it to pursuit, stand still, and let it pass. Of course monsters with mixed senses might not be fooled so easily.

Audio: It'd be so great if you could throw a stone unto a wall to make a monster investigate the tile where the stone fell. Of course monsters should not react to other monsters that have the same side as they do. And they should only follow new sounds, not to the last sound they already heard - not the infinite firball launcher next room that has been firing for ages. And once they directly perceive the party they don't chase stones anymore. They could also hear the party, even without a direct line of sight. Walls should diminish real monster sound ouptut as well as monster hearing range. Ninja levels should lessen the opponent listening range slightly (not to much - requires a careful balance).

Visual perception. Should contain a "darkvision" flag (yes per default, but can be changed). Monsters that solely rely on visuals should have their visual range decreased if there's no light. Light generated by the party should negate this completely. But since sometimes there is light in a room or you have an outdoor setting with maybe even human monsters, a monster should not always see the party from far away if it's dark. Ninja levels might lessen the opponent visual range slightly (not to much - requires a careful balance).

Z-Axis: I feared this might not be realistic. I wonder though, whether there might be some means to fill a part of a pit with a part of an image from the level below. Just a thought, might be much to complicated, but would very cool if possible.

[zoom]

all good and sound, lunever. Here are my thoughts

A slow regeneration for normal, living beings would be a good mechanism. Retreating is for tending wounds and regrouping. Fleeing from an enemy that can heal wounds without any own healing ability is not exactly intelligent.

I guess it all boils down as to what you see monsters are. In dm, as I see it, monsters are parts (predictable) that are there to slow you down. They are a simple game element. You as a party have an advantage over them(regeneration) and it is not exactly fair, but I think it is good that way. Given, some monsters like dragons could have regeneration, would probably even fit. THen give the monster also a level and exp, because you will get experience abuse by the player... then make it visible that the dragon just evolved..
could get ugly game - design wise, there is a box in a box containing a schrödingers cat and so on...
careful!

Monsters that don't have infinite mana might also make some intersting fire-fights that aim for emptying the enemies mana before closing in. Of course, some monsters may be smart enough to withhold a reserve. And if the party retreats to regenerate mana, so do the foes while the party sleeps. How much of that is already doably with current stats, and how much would need more LUA?

how do you tell/can you tell when the mana reserve of a monster is depleted? Without that(alternate image of the mana-aura-lost-monster comes to mind) it would not be good design.
as stated above, it would drastically change the game...!!

Tremoursense: If you know a monster relies on tremoursense only, you could retreat beyond its tremoursense reach, wait for it to pursuit, stand still, and let it pass. Of course monsters with mixed senses might not be fooled so easily.

breathing creates resonance in your body and I would doubt that a tremorsense monster could be fooled in that manner. There should be a spell(silence) that protects the party similar to invisibility from tremorsense

[Lunever]

Mana depletion - If that should actually be used for opponents, there's no reason to see their reserve. You can try to wear them down a bit, you can have judje by experience how many fireballs such a monster can cast, but in the end, you might still get a surprising fireball. After all, you don't see the health of a monster (except in Nexus) or the ammo of an archer in Skullkeep either (right, if he ceases to shoot at you he's out of ammo).

Tremoursense is just a name, suitable for perceiving the party's movement.

[Adamo]

Lunever:

Visual perception. Should contain a "darkvision" flag (yes per default, but can be changed). Monsters that solely rely on visuals should have their visual range decreased if there's no light. Light generated by the party should negate this completely. But since sometimes there is light in a room or you have an outdoor setting with maybe even human monsters, a monster should not always see the party from far away if it's dark. Ninja levels might lessen the opponent visual range slightly (not to much - requires a careful balance).

I don`t know how it is in DSB, but in original DM some monsters (like skeletons or demons) has "can see in darkness" flag set.
There are TWO factors responsible for detecting a player : sightrange (how far the monster can see, used in AI calculations) and awareness (how far the monster can automatically detect the player and persue them):

=> sightrange is responsible for noticing a party when a monster is placed directly in a line and faced to the player* (that could be called a visual perception). The current light level have great influence on the sightrange. For example WIZARD`S EYE has sightrange = 10, but this value applies only to the full light level. In full darkness it will decrease to one (every next dark value divides monster`s sightrange by 2 rounding up). Of course, there`s also "can see in darkness" flag, which if is on, the monster always has a full light perception (rive, mummy, flame, skeleton, couatl, water, demon and lords will always see you from the same distance no matter the dungeon light value).

=> awareness is responsible for noticing a party in a more subtle way: a monster "senses" a player no matter the place he is sided to the player (in a sense of hearing or something). For example: worms has no eyes, but they will always "detect" you from 10 tiles (awareness = 10), even if you`re standing behind them.

There are a lot of monsters with great sightrange, but low awareness and with disabled "can see in darkness" flag, which practically you don`t have to fight with, because they just won`t sense you in a darkness. Wizard`s Eyes is the best example: when there`s a lot of them in a level, just don`t use the torches and light spells (or use darkness spell) and you can easily try to omit them. But then you won`t see anything too (I`m not sure about this, but maybe the "FUL" light spell differs from "OH IR RA" light spell in a way that "OH IR RA" won`t influence into the monster`s perception).

When a monster had a great sightrange, but awareness = 0, you coud just stand behind him hitting in his back and he wouldn`t notice anything (unless he change his position because of the random moves).

* - more or less in a line, it might take a bigger (player`s for example) range, but for sure he won`t see you when you`re standing behind him.

[Lunever]

Mouse buttons - since mouses today have more buttons than an old 2-button Amiga mouse - can you support them, for example for the keymap?
That'd be great!

Also, Nexus featured a couple of item handling functions DM1 didn't in order to compensate a little for the missing mouse. Well, we have a mouse, but some functions might still improve the interface. For example Nexus used a button to directly transport an item from the floor/alcove etc. to the inventory.

Having that function along with the ability to map it on the 3rd mouse-key might make ammo-handling easier (you just middleclick the arrow on the floor to refill your quiver).

Experience - say, before I try to cast Lo with Halk and Tiggy's wand several hundred times - do I get a minimum amount of XP for a meaningless spell like in original DM? I hope so.

[Lunever]

Next one - RTC placed items on their supposed inventory slot. When you clicked boots into a barefooted character's inventory, they'd be put unto his feet instead of into the bagpack. I'd like to have that in DSB too.

[Lunever]

Ammo is automatically placed in the quiver, but action weapons are not auto-placed into the scabbard. That means recollected thrown clubs go to the backpack. I'd prefer RTC-like behaviour here too, so you can throw around a number of clubs and just recollect them unto the general inventory in order to be rearmed. Anything that makes playing ninja-style more amenable is appreaciated btw.

[Lunever]

When clicking a savegame slot. the name entry gets empty again. It'd pe better if it was prefilled with the last savegame name chosen, so I don't have to reenter something like "Level 1" every time. Ends up everything being named just "a".

[Lunever]

New suggestion: You can throw anything you like left or right by clicking it into the proper room half. But if you throw something from the action menu, it always stays where the character ist. Could you implement a function that will allow to throw unto the side the player wants to throw it? Like, depends on whether you click the action on the left side or the right side, or if you right-click or middle-click the action, the opposite lane will be the target.

[Lunever]

Screamers seem to be helpless against quick forward-swing-backward. They should bite people doing this.

[Lunever]

Might be subjective - but I have the strong impression that torches burn out to quickly and XP seem to be different. It seems to me that the first levels take much longer than in DM.

[Lunever]

If I click above the character names instead of precisely unto them I don't get into the inventory. The black border above the game should be off limits for the mouse pointer.

[Lunever]

Can't store scrolls into the pouch. Should be able to.

[Sophia]

Having that function along with the ability to map it on the 3rd mouse-key might make ammo-handling easier (you just middleclick the arrow on the floor to refill your quiver).

Mapping extra mouse buttons in the keyboard mapper is actually kind of a pain to implement because Allegro's methods for processing keyboard input and mouse input are so different. However, something like this could work-- a sort of "click on an object and immediately click on the inventory bars" macro is what it'd break down to. It might be useful, too. While I am amenable to adding shortcuts and other features for players like this, part of the challenge of DM, at least to me, is managing your inventory and being prepared, all while the game goes on in (mostly) real-time around you. We don't want to make it too easy.

Next one - RTC placed items on their supposed inventory slot. When you clicked boots into a barefooted character's inventory, they'd be put unto his feet instead of into the bagpack. I'd like to have that in DSB too.

Ammo is automatically placed in the quiver, but action weapons are not auto-placed into the scabbard. That means recollected thrown clubs go to the backpack. I'd prefer RTC-like behaviour here too, so you can throw around a number of clubs and just recollect them unto the general inventory in order to be rearmed. Anything that makes playing ninja-style more amenable is appreaciated btw.

Both of these are not that difficult, so I will add them.

When clicking a savegame slot. the name entry gets empty again. It'd pe better if it was prefilled with the last savegame name chosen, so I don't have to reenter something like "Level 1" every time. Ends up everything being named just "a".

Ok, I'll change that.

New suggestion: You can throw anything you like left or right by clicking it into the proper room half. But if you throw something from the action menu, it always stays where the character ist. Could you implement a function that will allow to throw unto the side the player wants to throw it? Like, depends on whether you click the action on the left side or the right side, or if you right-click or middle-click the action, the opposite lane will be the target.

I will be blunt and say I'm not too excited about this idea. Part of the challenge of DM is moving your characters around to make sure they're in the right place to make their attacks. That said, some sort of keyboard shortcut for rearranging your party could work... though I'd have to figure out what the most useful keys would be. Maybe "swap leader's side" and "swap leader's row" would be enough.

Screamers seem to be helpless against quick forward-swing-backward. They should bite people doing this.

Screamers are pretty helpless in any version of DM, aren't they?

Might be subjective - but I have the strong impression that torches burn out to quickly and XP seem to be different. It seems to me that the first levels take much longer than in DM.

I think you're right about the torches. I've gotten this feeling myself, and I think there's something broken in the engine making this happen. I'll look into it. I'm less sure about xp.

If I click above the character names instead of precisely unto them I don't get into the inventory. The black border above the game should be off limits for the mouse pointer.

Blocking the mouse pointer from entering certain portions of the playfield is just a mess in windowed mode, because then what do I do when the mouse goes out of the window? I think the best solution may simply be to be more careful, and use the keyboard macros if you're really in that much of a hurry.

Can't store scrolls into the pouch. Should be able to.

Oops, ok, I'll fix it.

[Lunever]

Well, handling inventory is part of the challenge, right. But bluntly, ninjas are in original DM largely a fighter training-addon, and playing ninja-style is a pain in the ass in DM1, so anything that improves ammo-handling and the usefulness of unarmed combat and ninja weapons will be welcome. RTC already had some improvements there, DSB also improves the ammo-handling. Still, I welcome everything that further improves it. I also liked that RTC gave more weight to ninja levels in regard to ninja levels increasing ranged damage than original DM, and gave more xp for ranged hits damaging monsters than original DM. Might be a thought for DSB too.

XP - I really think that initial levels (starting reincarnated) are much slower. And - do I get XP for meaningless spells so I can train Halk, or do I have to wait til the Theowand? I'm sure in some original version I could do this, and in some I couldn't (Amiga an PC might have had slight differences there).

Speaking of Amiga/PC-differences: Some used Mana for items, some used charges. What'd be best imho would be use Mana when there is Mana, and use charges when Mana is empty.

The suggestion with the lane-switching mainly follows the thought, that it seems strange a character can't shoot at someone standing right before him, just because he stands half a tile sideways. A switching shortcut button as you suggested might be enough to amend this though. Maybe you can utilize the Nexus character switch symbols for this.

Screamers - hmyes, but I think in original DM and RTC they bit you at least somtimes when you where jumping at them. The DSB screamers seem to completely helpless against this simple manouevre, so maybe they should kinda ready an attack from time to time too. DSB mummies hit me when I try to treat them like this.

[beowuuf]

RTC lets monsters attack when you advance, original DM never did - you can pretty much kill a screamer with fast movement.

[Lunever]

Well, in that case I prefer the RTC behaviour.

[Lunever]

Key for quicksave, key for quit game?

[Lunever]

XP - it'S bad enough to be considered a bug. In DM1, even bashing a bit at a door would give you one or another fighter level. I just went through level 1 and killed most of the screamers and mummies by swinging falchions at them, and it didn't even get me a single neophyte level.

[Lunever]

Can't press door switches with an item in hand (mouse-pointer-hand)

[Lunever]

When attacking rockpiles, about one out of fourty hits with Hissssa wielding a sabre or Halk wielding a falchion produces a hit. Might be subjective and I know they are tough, but I'm not sure whether it was that bad a quota in original DM.

[Lunever]

But at least the rock piles are cute and nice. From RTC I got used to monsters spreading out and ganging up on you in mixed parties, like rockpile+trollin+mimmy or animated armour+materializer. In DSB a rockpile actually keeps a 4-trollin-group from attacking since he is blocking a corridor although in theory there is enough room. I know, its very DM, but I liked the smarter mixed monsters.

[Sophia]

Would you mind making a single post and editing it? The posting flurry is a little hard to follow, and it is more work to quote it when I want to reply.

[Lunever]

Ok, from now on I'll edit a single posts and assume that you'll check it from time to time.
Starting with this post, adding content later (have to leave now anyway, I'll continue tomorrow).

RTC gave more weight to ninja levels in regard to ninja levels increasing ranged damage than original DM, and gave more xp for ranged hits damaging monsters than original DM. Might be a thought for DSB too.

XP - And - do I get XP for meaningless spells so I can train Halk, or do I have to wait til the Theowand? I'm sure in some original version I could do this, and in some I couldn't (Amiga an PC might have had slight differences there).

I really think that initial levels (starting reincarnated) are much slower. It's bad enough to be considered a bug. In DM1, even bashing a bit at a door would give you one or another fighter level. I just went through level 1 and killed most of the screamers and mummies by swinging falchions at them, and it didn't even get me a single neophyte level.

Speaking of Amiga/PC-differences: Some used Mana for items, some used charges. What'd be best imho would be use Mana when there is Mana, and use charges when Mana is empty.

A character-position-switching shortcut button as you suggested sounds good.

Key for quicksave, key for quit game?

Can't press door switches with an item in hand (mouse-pointer-hand)

When attacking rockpiles, about one out of fourty hits with Hissssa wielding a sabre or Halk wielding a falchion produces a hit. Might be subjective and I know they are tough, but I'm not sure whether it was that bad a quota in original DM.

[Sophia]

Sorry, I think wasn't quite clear. Once someone replies, free free to start another post, so that way the thread will still get bumped properly and such and new information won't be appearing in "old" posts and other confusion-inducing stuff.... I just meant, it's difficult for me to read/quote/etc. all your comments when they're spread across 5 little posts, so if you keep having new thoughts before I (or anyone) has replied then it might be better to not spread them across many posts. I probably wrote too much and made it even more unclear, but you get it.

[Lunever]

Sure - what I meant is, when I post a single issue and you read it, but do not yet reply (because you want to consider whether to change something I reported or suggested), just have a look into the thread later on, sooner or later I'll add more.

I try to carefully look at small details, so probably I'll report loads of stuff, some minor, some major. Easiest is anytime I encounter something go windowed, post it (or edit it in), go fullscreen and so on.

[Sophia]

Thank you! Much easier! If I missed a point from above, just poke me with it again.

RTC gave more weight to ninja levels in regard to ninja levels increasing ranged damage than original DM, and gave more xp for ranged hits damaging monsters than original DM. Might be a thought for DSB too.

DSB already does give ninja skill more weight in determining the damage of a thrown item, and (like in RTC) items thrown by a skilled ninja can do double-digit impact damage-- pretty much unheard of in vanilla DM, but I think it's a change for the better.

XP - And - do I get XP for meaningless spells so I can train Halk, or do I have to wait til the Theowand? I'm sure in some original version I could do this, and in some I couldn't (Amiga an PC might have had slight differences there).

No version of DM that I know of gives XP for meaningless spells, are you sure you didn't mean failed spells? You can warcry screamers to get a priest level and then cast Lo Ya, even without a flask you'll still get priest XP. Unlike most custom dungeons, you actually get a flask pretty soon, too, so then you can even make potions. Chani is one of my favorite champions anyway (I'm sure you had no idea!), and she makes a good helper for someone manaless because she can lend her moonstone to give a boost to the training.

I really think that initial levels (starting reincarnated) are much slower. It's bad enough to be considered a bug. In DM1, even bashing a bit at a door would give you one or another fighter level. I just went through level 1 and killed most of the screamers and mummies by swinging falchions at them, and it didn't even get me a single neophyte level.

I looked at some traces from CSBwin and compared this to some debugging code I stuck into DSB and honestly I'm a bit mystified. The xp given for physical attacks is generally the same-- if I create very controlled conditions like using a magical box on a monster and only checking the xp given by a miss (so the random factor of bonus xp given for damage done doesn't come into play), the values are exactly the same.

War crying on the other hand, I'll admit, gives significantly less XP at the moment because of a curious bug (a feature?) in DM, where you get XP both in the function that actually executes the war cry, and in the main attack method function. This means you're actually getting double the XP that the attack method specifies for a fear-causing attack. Rather than trying to replicate these hijinks I'll just double the XP that fear-based attack methods give you, and this behavior should feel much more like DM.

Speaking of Amiga/PC-differences: Some used Mana for items, some used charges. What'd be best imho would be use Mana when there is Mana, and use charges when Mana is empty.

I think it's based on attack method, not version or anything like that, at least going from what the DM encyclopida and my own digging around in the internals of CSBwin suggests. For example, a wand can calm and heal even when it is out of charges, because they are designed to only use mana-- they do not use charges. Spellshield uses charges but very little mana instead.

A character-position-switching shortcut button as you suggested spunds good.

Key for quicksave, key for quit game?

Ok, these sound fine.

Can't press door switches with an item in hand (mouse-pointer-hand)

You can't in CSBwin, either.

When attacking rockpiles, about one out of fourty hits with Hissssa wielding a sabre or Halk wielding a falchion produces a hit. Might be subjective and I know they are tough, but I'm not sure whether it was that bad a quota in original DM.

Ok, while I think you're exaggerating a little, I do think there may be a problem here. I did some tests in CSBwin and DSB, both using a completely unskilled fighter swinging a sword at a rockpile, and found that while in CSBwin, I was able to score a paltry hit on the rockpile roughly half of the time, where on DSB my hit rate was closer to 1 in 10. The problem more than likely is some global discrepancy in the combat, but shows up more prominently in the case of weak characters against rockpiles because of their high armor.