Big List of DSB Feature Requests

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Lunever
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Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

- Right, since I didn't have internet for a few days but still proceeded in DSB, I'm making a new post consisting of bug reports, impressions, questions an suggestions.
- Some of them might not concern the DSB engine itself but rather the DM dungeon, still it'd be nice if DSB as a DM clone would have a fully functioning DM1, no matter whether Joramund updates his dungeon or whether Sophia offers some lua script to correct it.

Severe bug:
LUA-error when trying to take the powergem with the firestaff. .
Firestaff and the powergem wallitem are used up, but no empowered firestaff appears. Dead end, game unsolvable.

Code: Select all

OBJ: 405 system archs
OBJ: 406 total archs
 gamedir D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm (base:0)
INIT: Starting fullscreen mode
INIT: Using color depth of 32
INIT: Starting FMOD
INIT: Triple buffering unavailable or disabled.
LUA: Lua initialized
Parsing base/global.lua
Parsing base/graphics.lua
Parsing base/inventory_info.lua
Parsing base/util.lua
Parsing base/triggers.lua
Parsing base/conditions.lua
Parsing base/monster.lua
Parsing base/monster_ai.lua
Parsing base/methods.lua
Parsing base/damage.lua
Parsing base/xp.lua
Parsing base/magic.lua
Parsing base/msg_handlers.lua
Parsing base/hooks.lua
Parsing base/system.lua
Parsing base/render.lua
Parsing base/startup.lua
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/startup.lua
Parsing base/objects.lua
OBJ: 405 system archs
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/objects.lua
OBJ: 406 total archs
DUNGEON: Attempting to load
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/dungeon.lua
LUA ERROR: base/triggers.lua:33: Sound is nil
SHUTDOWN: Shutting down...

Minor bug:
LUA-Error when putting the last item (Bow) in the Riddle Room:

Code: Select all

INIT: Parsing configuration file
INIT: Using gamedir D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm (base:0)
INIT: Starting fullscreen mode
INIT: Using color depth of 32
INIT: Starting FMOD
INIT: Triple buffering unavailable or disabled.
LUA: Lua initialized
Parsing base/global.lua
Parsing base/graphics.lua
Parsing base/inventory_info.lua
Parsing base/util.lua
Parsing base/triggers.lua
Parsing base/conditions.lua
Parsing base/monster.lua
Parsing base/monster_ai.lua
Parsing base/methods.lua
Parsing base/damage.lua
Parsing base/xp.lua
Parsing base/magic.lua
Parsing base/msg_handlers.lua
Parsing base/hooks.lua
Parsing base/system.lua
Parsing base/render.lua
Parsing base/startup.lua
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/startup.lua
Parsing base/objects.lua
OBJ: 405 system archs
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/objects.lua
OBJ: 406 total archs
DUNGEON: Attempting to load
Parsing D:\Spiele\DM\DSB\dm/dungeon.lua
Drain:
- The aforementioned to high stamina drain is probably mainly a significant problem for newbie players,
since it induces increased food drain, and you have to play through pretty quickly toward the Screamer-Chamber and train there,
if you don't want to run out of food, which kinda spoils the fun of exploring and solving riddles
(and deters players from skipping training).
Normally I don't train since to highly levelled characters decrease the challenge,
but in DSB I just had to train in order to have the increased vitality counter the to high drain
(after repeatedly having to drink Ya-potions in mid-combat).

XP:
- Part of the XP issue is the much lower success rate of spells compared to non-DSB.
My craftsmen wizards resorted to shooting worms with Um-Fireballs, because higher powered fireballs mostly failed.
From my memories I think I used to shoot worms rather with Ee-Fireballs. However, later on this discrepancy more and more vanished.
- Generally it's not bad that the highest spell difficulties do not always work when you're just an adept, but instead occasionally require a LoMaster oder an UmMaster, but on the low levels (-, neophyte, novice) this needs to be amended a bit.

Character direction:
- It'd be good if on a melee attack a character that is not turned toward the front monster would turn automatically toward the front
if there is no other monster adjacent in the direction he is currently turned toward.

Spell durations:
- My impression is, that shield spells have a much to short duration. I consent that in vanilla-DM they had a to generous duration, but I'd prefer rather something in-between vanilla and current DSB.
- I consent with the much shorter potion durations in DSB (compared to vanilla), especially if you drink a character up to a ridiculous high stat, but if you have just a little increase, the effect vanishes a bit to quickly. So I'd suggest to smooth out the curve a little.

Visual angle:
- Probably from RTC I'm used to see monsters on a tile diagonally before the party. In DSB this depends on the monster position within a tile and its graphics size. I think if there is some monster on any position diagonally before the party, the player should always see at least some small (but still clearly significant) part of the monster. Maybe the monster graphics display could be corrected with some X-offset, if less than a certain number of X-pixels are visible (and if there aren't 2 walls on the the 2 non-diagonal tiles between party and monster). When walking through a hall (instead of a tight corridor), this would enhance the impression of spatial perception instead of some "tunnel gaze".

Encumbrance State (yellow):
- Is not always immediately updated to non-yellow when drinking Ku-potions.

Skills:
- I just gained melee with Halk without actually gaining a fighter level. Later on I had 2 characters train a little against rats, one with the Hardcleave, and one with the diamond blade, both characters were cleaving. When the hardcleave-wielder gained berzerk, I switched weapons and noticed, that the other character (the one who only cleaved with the diamond blade) also had gained berzerk.I repeated that process with 2 other characters, same result.
So I assume, that DSB is using rather the original internal skills (which I like much more than the RTC simplifications).
Is that valid for all of the hidden skills of original DM so far? Or are there differences between DSB/DM/DM2?

Monster resistances:
- Had to throw quite a few high power fireballs on a Slimer. Aren't they supposed to be fire-susceptible?

Illusionary walls:
- Monsters (in this case a rat) don't seem to follow through illusionary walls.
- Monsters should ignore an illusionary wall once the party has entered it or has shot a missille through it.

Wizard's Eyes:
- Sometimes they don't use their Zo spells. Probably a closed opaque door just says "You don't see the party",
even after party opened it, fired missiles through it, and closed it again.

Lightning Bolt:
- Seems to have the same area effect in DSB as Fireball. Is that supposed to be? Or shouldn't it instead hit just targets in the same row?

Gigglers in the Void:
- In the void level I never encountered any gigglers at all. Does the engine run several levels on full speed simultaneously?
Probably the gigglers are killed by the Wrath-of.God-like fireball machine long before the party enters the level.
- I suggest keeping the gigglers on their starting position until the party firstly enters the level. Of course this could be done by adding in a few monster teleporters, but it might be more handy to add a flag to dungeon levels that says "freeze level until it is entered first" if it is set.

Mana-items:
- Some items like the Staff of Manar are supposed to increase the mana regeneration rate by some internal multiplier. Didn't notice this in DSB.

Rusters:
- Do rust monsters have a rust attack in DSB? Didn't see stuff rusting. I'd suggest it as an option (I'd like to see lost content reimplemented).

Malfunctioning traps:
- In the What-is-underfoot-is-soon-overhead corridor of fire the floor triggers only respond to party and not - as they should - to items too.
- The poison-trap protecting the diamond blade doesn't work. I can just take the blade an nothing happens at all, neither darts nor poison clouds.

Wall items:
- In the copper-coin-shop the coin slots don't disappear but are instead shown over the alcoves.

Non-corporeal monsters:
- Might be just coincidence, but so far I haven't seen any immaterial creature (ghosts or water elementals) pass any door.
Does their AI take into account that they can pass opaque doors?

Turquoise key treasures:
- The flamebain doesn't increase anti-fire. Shouldn't it?
- I'd like to see lost content reimplemented - in this case the "spit fireball" action for the dragon spit.

Sitting ducks:
- Stone golems take to long before hitting the party. At least once in a while they should immediately strike when the party steps into reach. Even an inexperienced player will walk through that level without taking a single hit.

Sound:
- Walls should have a stronger effect on reducing the volume of monster steps.
Currently a monster in a room completely secluded by walls are to indistinguishable from monsters coming straight toward party.
- An in-game sound volume control would be nice too.
- Implementation of the DM music (nitendo) as a sound option (music on/off) would be a cool atmospheric feature too.

Shortcut keys:
- The shortcuts for switching the leaders position in the party in nice, but even more I'd like to have 2 buttons that just mirror all the character positions vertically or horinzontally.
- A quickload button would be handy, especially for game testing purposes when you want to test, whether some behaviour can be reproduced.
- Allowing combinations of keys for shortcut-keys (like CTRL+S) would be good - especially for stuff like the "Quit" shortcut.

Saving:
- I'd like to have more savegames slots.
- Sometimes the editor doesn't keep the last directory path used when restarted.

Monster movement & outlook:
- I prefer the monster behaviour of DSB (monsters make turning+moving as 1 action and don't waste time moving quarter-tile-wise) before that of RTC. However, the general idea of RTC that monster movements just looks smoother, if they move quarter-tile-wise and first turn and then move, also has some merit - in RTC the monsters just took to long for those partial movements (the player could easily react to those partial movements when the game ran on standard speed). So my suggestion is having the monster turn and change position like in RTC, but only for a very short moment that doesn't use up monster actions. That would look pretty, without spoiling the monster tactics.

Smarter monsters:
- Monsters lurking behind corners, ready to strike.
- Monsters that have been damaged by a closing door not walking a second time under the same doorway while the party is standing adjacent to the door (instead they'd use ranged combat or retreat behind the next corner - see above).
- Monsters coming 'round the corner, firing their missile and retreating into the shelter behind the corner again.
- Monsters breaking cycle-running in various manner - not only by changing direction as well as by waiting for the party to move, but also by fleeing into a tighter corridor and then lurking there behind the corner (see above).

Projectile weapons:
- Smarter ammo stacking (small items should preferably go to small quiver places and not to the scabbard first).
- As a general option, please add taking ammo from a container in the left hand, like in DM2.
Anyone who'd like to always play DM2-style can turn it on, anyone preferring vanilla-DM1 can turn it off.

Wish-list:
- Original Intro- and Endmovies, no matter how low the resolution was back then.
- More items eligible für pouch and quiver (wands, magic boxes, potions, etc..).
- True poisoning of monsters by DesVen and possibly OhVen.
- More ninja XP for actually inflicting damage to monsters (similar to RTC).
That'd make ninja a useful class instead of an auxiliary class for fighters gained by throwing stockpile around.
I'd change "Jab" (rapier) being a ninja attack. (I'd also like to do a couple of other things with other ninja skills later on, like using the coinflipping-skill for EOB-like lockpicks instead).

Since I'd like very much DSB to be the pinnacle of all DM versions, sequels, engines and clones, it'd be wonderful if on the one hand it'd stays close to the best core engine (vanilla-DM1), but also takes the best features of other canon games (CSB, DM2, and a tiniy bit of Nexus) and clones, or at least allows those features as options, and a few unique improvements. That's why I still would like to see:
- An option for having an action icon for each hand of a character (similar to DM2).
- An option for iterative action regeneration (similar to Nexus).
- Actions for non-weapon items (throw, consume).
- Optional additional mini action icons that are always available (kick, war cry, sheathe/draw).
- Castle Skullkeep! With optional Amiga or PC graphics.
- Transparent pits (with reduced light level). To see monsters lurking in the pits below and on briges overhead was a cool atmospheric feature in Nexus. I think this could be archieved without actual 3D.
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Gambit37
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Re: Features for DSB

Post by Gambit37 »

Wow, that's a massive list! I'm sure Sophia will have lots to say about this, but here's a few comments I'd like to make:
- Do rust monsters have a rust attack in DSB? Didn't see stuff rusting. I'd suggest it as an option (I'd like to see lost content reimplemented).
Not in the standard dungeon, but there is code already provided in the supplied test_dungeon that gives them the rusting ability. It would be easy for the DM dungeon creator to add it. (Which therefore makes the point: Why are the DM and CSB dungeons not included with the DSB download? It would make sense to have these in the default package.)

Some of wish-list items I think "break" the standard DM interface, and I suspect that Sophia's answer to those would be to have dungeon designers add those features through Lua scripting themselves.
Some specific comments:
An option for iterative action regeneration (similar to Nexus).
^^ What does this mean?
Castle Skullkeep! With optional Amiga or PC graphics.
This is a huge undertaking. It's not just a question of building the dungeon, but also adding all the graphics and missing functionality. It's a huge, huge, huge job, and since most people don't seem to like DM2, I doubt the effort is really worth it to be honest. I would rather people invested their valuable time in building custom adventures.
Transparent pits (with reduced light level). To see monsters lurking in the pits below and on briges overhead was a cool atmospheric feature in Nexus. I think this could be archieved without actual 3D.
??? I don't think there is any way you could reasonably do this with the current sprite/tile based engine. There's no concept of "looking down" to see what's there, because the lower levels aren't actually viewable from the current level. You would need a completely different engine, surely?
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Lunever
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Re: Features for DSB

Post by Lunever »

I'm absolutely for including DM&CSB in the default package.
I'd even be for including a couple of additional custom dungeons in the default package, but DM+CSB first and foremost.

I know that some wishes probably won't be fulfilled, some have been sugggested by me before and have been discussed in the past. But since this was quite a while ago and DSB continues to develop it might be worthwhile to reconsider one or another of them. Since the recent DSB releases had been mainly about stability and efficiency in regard to data handling and dungeon designing, it might be time for interface improvement for actually playing.

Nexus comparison:
In vanilla-DM a character is completely action-incapable for a certain time depepending on the attack he performed (for example quite long after a berzerk).
In Nexus, attacks are regained succesievely. With an axe, you can swing again after just a few moments (but not yet chop or melee), after a few seconds you regain "chop", and after a few more seconds you regain "melee" too (of course only if you already have the necessary skill). I find this approach smarter than the original vanilla-DM1 approach).

I know DM2 is a huge undertaking. But actually I think you'r not entirely correct about how worthwhile it is. Many DM fans including me didn't like original DM2 because of the awkward interface. It had a few improvements, and some stuff that were doing the opposite of improving the game, firstly forcing the party move by slowly scrolling half-steps (without actually using halfsteps. Would the scrolling have been pretty quick, it might even have been an improvement). But, playing DM2 in RTC was just cool, I very much enjoyed it. Also, implementing DM2 in RTC did cause some engine improvements too as a side effect.

Transparent pits (I am aware that this is the most difficult wish): Am I thinking to simply? I'm not talking about a vertical view from above or true 3D. I'd just take the ordinary 2D-image, move it vertically down (or up), maybe rescale it it tiny bit smaller, and give it a significant lower light level. For a fist shot maybe the darkened monster image only. For example there could be a dark grey mummy head be visible through a pit. A single pit might be a bit small for display, but a room full of full-tile transparent pits might let you see the bazillion of mummies lurking below.
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Gambit37
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Re: Features for DSB

Post by Gambit37 »

Ah, right, thanks for clarifying the Nexus action-recovery thing -- I don't remember that from playng it myself; it's a nice little feature, well spotted.

Transparent pits the way you describe just really aren't possible. All DM engines start by drawing a solid floor image, then placing solid pit images over the top. If you make the pit images transparent, you'll just see the floor through them. And then there's a world of hurt in rendering any kind of monster in there: I think it would just look like it's weirdly floating somewhere in the floor. Sorry, I'm pretty certain this isn't possible with the way the DM engine works; of course Sophia will probably go and prove me wrong ;-)
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Re: Features for DSB

Post by Lunever »

Probably you are right about the engine and the drawing of the graphics, but still I found it worth a thought.

EDIT: To make DM1 and Nexus match, I would leave the original action regenerating times (like quite long after a berzerk), regain the most time cosuming attack options after the full intervall as usual, but regain less time consuming attack options after some fracture of that time (depending on how fast that less time consuming attack is compared to the attack performed). The action icon should be two thirds "greyish" if 1 of 3 actions is regained, one half greyish if ine of 2 actions is regained, one third greyish if 2 of 3 actions are regained, etc..
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

I didn't make DSB DM1 and I don't maintain it, and, there's more than enough with the core of DSB that I need to look at.
So, I'm not going to address problems with the DM1 dungeon, at least for right now.
Lunever wrote:The aforementioned to high stamina drain is probably mainly a significant problem for newbie players
Yes, I've already reduced the stamina drain. I'll release a DSB 0.52 as soon as all of the severe bugs are gone-- it's being tested at the moment.
Lunever wrote:Part of the XP issue is the much lower success rate of spells compared to non-DSB.
Right, I've fixed this too. :)
Lunever wrote:It'd be good if on a melee attack a character that is not turned toward the front monster would turn automatically toward the front
if there is no other monster adjacent in the direction he is currently turned toward.
This shouldn't be too hard.
Lunever wrote:My impression is, that shield spells have a much to short duration.
DSB's clock ticks 5 times per sec, compared to CSBwin's which, at its default speed, only ticks at 4hz. So, that might be part of it?
The actual math to generate the number of ticks the shield lasts is pulled straight from CSBwin.
If anything, DSB shields will last longer. In CSBwin, if you already have a shield strength of 50 or more already, any new shield is reduced to 25% power. In DSB, use of logarithms smooths out this abrupt drop in power.
Lunever wrote:Maybe the monster graphics display could be corrected with some X-offset, if less than a certain number of X-pixels are visible (and if there aren't 2 walls on the the 2 non-diagonal tiles between party and monster).
This would be really messy. I'm not really all that excited about messing with the monster renderer, unless there is some serious display bug. This is not one.
Lunever wrote:Is not always immediately updated to non-yellow when drinking Ku-potions.
Good find. Fixed that.
Lunever wrote:So I assume, that DSB is using rather the original internal skills (which I like much more than the RTC simplifications).
Right. You will occasionally gain new skills without "leveling up" as your hidden subskills gain more experience.
Lunever wrote:Is that valid for all of the hidden skills of original DM so far?
As far as I can tell. :)
Lunever wrote:Had to throw quite a few high power fireballs on a Slimer. Aren't they supposed to be fire-susceptible?
Yes, they are. Maybe it just had a lot of hp?
Lunever wrote:Monsters should ignore an illusionary wall once the party has entered it or has shot a missille through it.
For the most part, they do ignore illusory walls that the party has stepped through. Monsters with the property of smart are better about this, so if non-smart monsters are too stupid, maybe I can do something about that.
It would be too complicated to track where missiles were coming from, so I am probably not going to do anything with that.
Lunever wrote:Sometimes they don't use their Zo spells. Probably a closed opaque door just says "You don't see the party",
even after party opened it, fired missiles through it, and closed it again.
If the monster doesn't get a turn while the party is still there, it doesn't count as being "seen." This is probably the issue. Now that I think about it, it could well be the issue with the monster not going through illusory walls, too.
Lunever wrote:Seems to have the same area effect in DSB as Fireball. Is that supposed to be?
As far as I know, yes.
Lunever wrote:Does the engine run several levels on full speed simultaneously?
DSB runs the level above and the level below the party at full speed, and freezes every other level. It does it this way mainly because at the time I thought that was how DM did it. It isn't, it might but how RTC does it or something... I actually don't know. But whatever, it works, so what's how DSB does it, too.
Lunever wrote:Some items like the Staff of Manar are supposed to increase the mana regeneration rate by some internal multiplier.
I don't find any reference to this on the DM Encyclopedia. I would have probably noticed this in the CSBwin code, too, but I didn't. Are you sure this isn't something from DM2, RTC, or some other non-DM1 engine?
Lunever wrote:Do rust monsters have a rust attack in DSB? Didn't see stuff rusting. I'd suggest it as an option (I'd like to see lost content reimplemented)
As Gambit pointed out, I'm not going to put this in the core game, but it's fairly easy to do with Lua and I've created a rusting ruster archetype that designers can use in their own dungeons.
Lunever wrote:Might be just coincidence, but so far I haven't seen any immaterial creature (ghosts or water elementals) pass any door.
Does their AI take into account that they can pass opaque doors?
Mostly.
There was a bug (that I've already fixed) where Materializers would waste time trying to zo or blast doors they could just pass through.
Lunever wrote:The flamebain doesn't increase anti-fire. Shouldn't it?
It should. It does.
Lunever wrote:I'd like to see lost content reimplemented - in this case the "spit fireball" action for the dragon spit.
It exists. Just not in the default DM1 dungeon.
Lunever wrote:Stone golems take to long before hitting the party.
They are slow. They're slow in DM, they're slow in RTC, they're slow in every version. They're just slow. :mrgreen:
Lunever wrote:Walls should have a stronger effect on reducing the volume of monster steps.
This is unlikely to ever be implemented.
Lunever wrote:An in-game sound volume control would be nice too.
I'll think about this one. :)
Lunever wrote:The shortcuts for switching the leaders position in the party in nice, but even more I'd like to have 2 buttons that just mirror all the character positions vertically or horinzontally.
This is unlikely to ever be implemented.
Lunever wrote:Allowing combinations of keys for shortcut-keys (like CTRL+S) would be good
Since Ctrl itself can be bound to something, this is probably not going to happen.
Lunever wrote:I'd like to have more savegames slots.
To add more slots, I'd have to redo the entire saving interface. It works as is, so it's a very low priority.
Lunever wrote:Sometimes the editor doesn't keep the last directory path used when restarted.
I think this is more to do with Windows than anything I can control.
Lunever wrote:I prefer the monster behaviour of DSB (monsters make turning+moving as 1 action and don't waste time moving quarter-tile-wise) before that of RTC. However, the general idea of RTC that monster movements just looks smoother, if they move quarter-tile-wise and first turn and then move, also has some merit
My goal in DSB was to make monster groups move like they did in DM. They do that. I'm not really interested in making any big changes beyond that.
Lunever wrote:Smarter monsters
They behave like DM monsters. What more do you want? :mrgreen:
Seriously, while I'm always looking for new little things to add to the AI, I don't want to give them any particularly groundbreaking or crazy tactics that would make the game feel less like DM, not to mention being a lot of work for me.
Lunever wrote:Smarter ammo stacking (small items should preferably go to small quiver places and not to the scabbard first).
Ok, I'll add that.
Lunever wrote:As a general option, please add taking ammo from a container in the left hand, like in DM2.
This should be done already. If it's not working, I'll look at the code later.
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Lunever
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Right, the fixes you've already announced sound good.

The more esoteric suggestions not adressed - please just reconsider them when you're to-do-list should be completely empty one day ;-)

Flamebain: Didn't keep the savegame (there is a reason I asked for more slots), but I doublechecked twice before posting. The anti-fire value displayed was the same with or without flamebain. Is the modifier internal only? Or does it take some time to be updated?

Switching row/line: I just thought it'd be easy to implement and would improve the players capability to aim at a specific monster in a monster group as well as improve support for an all fighter-party.

Smarter monsters: Well, since DM2 too tried to make monsters smarter, I don't think it would be un-DM to spice things a little bit up.

Shield spells: I measure time and what I can do during a spell. In vanilla MS-DOS-DM1 As an impression, I proceeded farther with the same YaIr-duration than in DSB.

Ammo containers: Right, if it already should work - Can you tell me how I can make some LUA-command in order to simply change the properties of all existing chests in the default DM1 and CSB dungeon to gain quiver capability?
Last edited by Lunever on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Paul Stevens »

DSB runs the level above and the level below the party at full speed, and freezes every other level.
This will break CSB's randomizing algorithms.
CSB starts a level when the party enters and
it continues to run after the party leaves.

I think I am right about this. In fact, when
testing the "Dragon opening Doors" problem
I saw a chest fly across the room very unexpectedly.
I attributed this surprise to the Gigglers doing
their thing in the randomizer room.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Staff of Manar: I think it was in some old thread about hidden properties of items in DM1 and DM2. The staff of Manar can't have been from DM2, since there is no Staff of Manar in DM2. And it's not from RTC, because this information went into RTC, but with a different mechanism - George gave all mana-boosting items a mana regeneration rate boost too if I remember correctly. I'll try to find the source.

EDIT:

Staff of Manar: I found (and remember now) that way back I already posted this and was searching for the source and didn't find the post anymore. It was some thread so old that it was even before the forum merging, so if it's not in the CSBWin code just forget about it.

However, some item properties from DM2 could be applied to DM1/CSB too, at least for the items that exist in both. Some can be found in this thread:
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... den#p55798

EDIT2: There was some hot fix for the firestaff, right? Is that still available anywhere?

EDIT3: How about a variable in a DSB dungeon that sets what and how many levels beyond the party should have its monsters and/or mechanisms running? So if a dungeon like CSB causes problems, this might be an easier remedy than to manually rework all those giggler randomizers in order to make them somehow fit into DSB?

EDIT4: Now comes a very long edit (consisting of many quotes, though I didn't take the effort of tagging them as quotes.
Not sure where to post now you have split the topic. I'm bumping some other old suggestions. Maybe some of them could make it on your to-do-list?

Sophia: "This can all be done already via Lua modifications. Not what you wanted to hear, I know. ;) However, I think there is a certain point when the right answer isn't to try to force new/exotic/non-DM-like features into the core engine or base code but rather to do something like make a "code library" available so that designers who want to use various advanced mechanics can just "plug in" what they want. "

I'd like a "spice up DM1+CSB"-library code. Maybe some suggestions could be made by such a code option.

Adamo: "I don`t know how it is in DSB, but in original DM some monsters (like skeletons or demons) has "can see in darkness" flag set.
There are TWO factors responsible for detecting a player : sightrange (how far the monster can see, used in AI calculations) and awareness (how far the monster can automatically detect the player and persue them): => sightrange is responsible for noticing a party when a monster is placed directly in a line and faced to the player* (that could be called a visual perception). The current light level have great influence on the sightrange. For example WIZARD`S EYE has sightrange = 10, but this value applies only to the full light level. In full darkness it will decrease to one (every next dark value divides monster`s sightrange by 2 rounding up). Of course, there`s also "can see in darkness" flag, which if is on, the monster always has a full light perception (rive, mummy, flame, skeleton, couatl, water, demon and lords will always see you from the same distance no matter the dungeon light value)."

Does DSB do this too?

Lunever: "Mouse buttons - since mouses today have more buttons than an old 2-button Amiga mouse - can you support them, for example for the keymap?
That'd be great!Also, Nexus featured a couple of item handling functions DM1 didn't in order to compensate a little for the missing mouse. Well, we have a mouse, but some functions might still improve the interface. For example Nexus used a button to directly transport an item from the floor/alcove etc. to the inventory."
Sophia: "Mapping extra mouse buttons in the keyboard mapper is actually kind of a pain to implement because Allegro's methods for processing keyboard input and mouse input are so different. However, something like this could work-- a sort of "click on an object and immediately click on the inventory bars" macro is what it'd break down to. It might be useful, too. While I am amenable to adding shortcuts and other features for players like this, part of the challenge of DM, at least to me, is managing your inventory and being prepared, all while the game goes on in (mostly) real-time around you. We don't want to make it too easy. ;)"

Any chance to support more modern mouses than Amiga/ST ones directly by now?

Lunever: "Speaking of Amiga/PC-differences: Some used Mana for items, some used charges. What'd be best imho would be use Mana when there is Mana, and use charges when Mana is empty. "
Sophia: "I think it's based on attack method, not version or anything like that, at least going from what the DM encyclopida and my own digging around in the internals of CSBwin suggests. For example, a wand can calm and heal even when it is out of charges, because they are designed to only use mana-- they do not use charges. Spellshield uses charges but very little mana instead."

I still think that it was different in different DM1 platforms. A synergy between both methods would be good for most items imho.

Lunever: "But at least the rock piles are cute and nice. From RTC I got used to monsters spreading out and ganging up on you in mixed parties, like rockpile+trollin+mimmy or animated armour+materializer. In DSB a rockpile actually keeps a 4-trollin-group from attacking since he is blocking a corridor although in theory there is enough room. I know, its very DM, but I liked the smarter mixed monsters."

Does the current version allow mixed monster groups?

Lunever: "Ninja combat - EOB allowed a thief to use his backstab damage when attacking a creature from the rear. I don't find it anymore, but I think I remember some years ago GG replied positive to this, but I can't remember anymore to what extend this was implemented in RTC. Still, doesn't really matter, I suggest increased ninja-level-dependant damage when attacking from the rear."
Sophia: "I'll think about backstabbing, etc. Trying to tweak too much at one time is probably how messes like this one show up in the first place. ;)"

So how about this as a DSB option?

Lunever: "A Main difference are weapons - you just click a weapon in EOB (I think from memory it was a rightclick on the weapon icon) and get an attack, which made 2-weapon-fighting easy to handle. The different combat actions of DM are much more sphisticated. Still, have a weapon release its most powerful attack on a right-click would be cool."
Sophia: "I could see it being handy, but the greater variety and sophistication of DM's combat actions makes deciding which is the "most powerful attack" a bit of a sticky issue. Should a club throw or bash? Should something like fury shoot a fireball, or do its most powerful melee attack ? How about a wand, what should it do? (these questions are rhetorical, you don't have to answer them if you don't want to and my point is I think the answer isn't very clear)"

You could allow selecting the standard attack by player selection (right click on a weapon action sets it to default).

Lunever: "Stats - The stats raise rather quickly to their new maximum after a level-up. That makes it difficult to see the changes (and keep to them in mind in order to compare to other clones). Can you store changes on levelup until the eye is clicked next, so that on that next click there will be a "+x" displayed behind every raised stat, and have the raised class highlighted on that next click? "
Sophia: "Showing which class got the level up in green seems like a good idea. That's easy enough to do and to fit into the current interface, so I'll add that. But, the "+x" thing seems like it'd change the interface more and I'm not sure where I'd put that information."
Lunever: "Levelup: Maybe you can in addition to the green highlighting of the class also highlight the raised stats' name."
Sophia: "Good idea, I'll do that."

Problem is, that often you are promoted during combat, and when you finally look up, you don't see anymore how muc each stat was raised.
Would still be handy not to have to write down your previous stats on paper if you want to know how your characters develop.

Lunever: "It might actually be nice - if you smooth out the curve - to change the dashing if the shield box lines (long lines, short interruptions for a strong shield, short lines with longer interruption for a weak shield)".
Sophia: "This would be easier to do if the shield graphic was dynamically drawn instead of just being a static bitmap, of course. ;)"

So, can the current DSB version do it dynamically?

Lunever (about stat-boosting potions): "Nexus also featured a somewhat shorter duration than DM1 and capped the maximum to 170, probably for exactly that reason. I recommend something like this for DSB too - you don't have to stick to exploits and loopholes of the original.
Sophia: "Good thought. While I want to remain quite faithful to the original, this applies mostly to "normal play," not using tricks to completely remove the game's challenge. ;)
Lunever: "Stat-potion duration. I found that to be one of the couple of things they got pretty right in Nexus. The duration is long enough that you can boost yourself a little without having to reboost all the time, but just not long enough to boost everything to maximum with a normal character's mana (resting in between to get more mana would reduce the first boosted stats quite a bit. Resting/boosting was kinda equilibrium. The first stats before bosting were still somewhat above their unboosted state, but a good deal away from the boosting maximum - so I could either boost the other stats significantly, or reboost the first ones a bit (the boost got somewhat weaker results the nearer you got to the maximum). Also, 170 seemed a good choice for maximum. Of course, if there was to be a maximum, I would not necessarily take a fixed value. I would take something related to the initial value, so it still makes sense to boost rather Halk's strength for melee than Tiggy's. ... Summa summarum the DSB maximum should be somewhere between the latest cap from Nexus of 170 and the original vanilla exploit of 255, and it should somehow consider the inititial stat, so I'd propose: Let potions work normally (as before) until they reach 170 (and only let them boost until 170 at first), and let give them a very low boost once past 170 (but leave the maximum at 255, applicable for stats of 169 or greater)). The low boost could be (spell level div 6) * (initial stat div 5), total minimum 1. The drop over time should be fast like now (DSB 0.40) as long as above 170, but slow like DM1 if equal or below 170. Optionally, the slow drop can be curved out smoothly. ... Oh my,now I found something really broken. The current stat maximum in DSB isn't 255 at all, it's 999 ! I wanted to catch up a little in wizard/priest levels with Halk, so I let the other characters brew some wisdom potions. However, you should think with wisdom 999 Halk would be casting like hell. He doesn't. Neither his mana regeneration rate nor his spell casting failure chance seem to be much impressed by his wisdom. To me it looks as if wisdom didn't do aynthing in DSB. "
Sophia: "There's a lot here and I'll have to think about it a bit more and try a few things. My basic aim, and I think yours too, is trying to be (mostly) true to DM while making the whole mechanic less exploitable. Of course, this stuff is all accessible in the base code-- stat boosts are handled by the various potion_effect functions in objects.lua, and stat draining by the sys_update function in system.lua, so feel free to play with it yourself, too. ;)"

I noticed that in DSB you can still boost even way past 255. I'm still for the 170 limit. Also, potion duration was absolutely perfectly balanced in Nexus imho.

Lunever: "Where do I get the new monster_ai.lua ?"
Sophia: "I'll email it to you in a bit. :)"

I assume it's by now in the core engine of the current version?

Lunever: "So now there are many new shortcut keys. Can you also allow <CTRL + Something> as a choice for keys? (Like STRG+S for quicksave for example)."
Sophia: "No problem."

Maybe you could allow it as long as no function is keyed to CTRL only? Same for other key combinations like with ALT and/or SHIFT and similar?
BTW: German characters like ä ö ü can be used but stay invisible in the config menu. Can this be changed by using a broader range of characters?

Lunever: "Custom dungeons - is Zo just boolean, or can you edit a door to require a certain amount of Zo to be opened?"

Is it?
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

Lunever wrote:There was some hot fix for the firestaff, right? Is that still available anywhere?
I don't know. Sorry.
Lunever wrote:How about a variable in a DSB dungeon that sets what and how many levels beyond the party should have its monsters and/or mechanisms running? So if a dungeon like CSB causes problems, this might be an easier remedy than to manually rework all those giggler randomizers in order to make them somehow fit into DSB?
I'm not sure what is actually causing the problem in CSB. Is it because the level runs when the party isn't on it, or that the level isn't running when the party is more than one level away, or that it runs at full speed, or what?
Lunever wrote:Does DSB do this too?
DSB uses sightrange and awareness in the same way, but it doesn't have a "darkvision" flag; I guess I somehow missed that one. I'll add that.
Lunever wrote:Any chance to support more modern mouses than Amiga/ST ones directly by now?
I doubt it, particularly since my own mouse isn't very fancy so testing wouldn't be easy.
Lunever wrote:
Sophia wrote:I think it's based on attack method, not version or anything like that, at least going from what the DM encyclopida and my own digging around in the internals of CSBwin suggests. For example, a wand can calm and heal even when it is out of charges, because they are designed to only use mana-- they do not use charges. Spellshield uses charges but very little mana instead.
I still think that it was different in different DM1 platforms. A synergy between both methods would be good for most items imho.
I really don't want to go digging around and trying to emulate everything every platform may or may not have done, particularly ones whose internals aren't as well understood as CSBwin, i.e., Atari ST CSB. The current version of DSB behaves (as far as I know) like Atari ST CSB. If anyone wants something different, they can write some custom Lua code.
Lunever wrote:Does the current version allow mixed monster groups?
No. Mixed monster groups with the current monster movement mechanics would be an atrocious mess. DSB designates one monster on a tile the "boss" and has that monster control all actions of the monster group. This is fine if they're the same type, but different types would do different things and the whole "boss" approach won't work. I considered just leaving them separate groups, but then they'd be oblivious of each other, and weird things would happen like if you had two mummies behind two rockpiles, and the party stepped back, the mummies would advance first because the two groups are unaware of each other and do not block each other. (And all the checks to prevent those kinds of messes are not code I relish the idea of writing)
Lunever wrote:I suggest increased ninja-level-dependant damage when attacking from the rear.
So how about this as a DSB option?
I'll add a backstab property for attack methods that will do this. It'll probably only be enabled on "STAB" in the base code, to avoid too many balance issues, but this way custom designers have an easy way of adding or enhancing this behavior.
Lunever wrote:You could allow selecting the standard attack by player selection (right click on a weapon action sets it to default).
I could. I'm not hugely wild about this idea but I'll put it somewhere near the bottom of my perpetually very long todo list. :)
Lunever wrote:Problem is, that often you are promoted during combat, and when you finally look up, you don't see anymore how muc each stat was raised.
I agree it's not optimal, but it's at least more clear than it was.
Lunever wrote:So, can the current DSB version do it dynamically?
No. The graphics are still the same old ones from CSB.
Lunever wrote:However, you should think with wisdom 999 Halk would be casting like hell. He doesn't. Neither his mana regeneration rate nor his spell casting failure chance seem to be much impressed by his wisdom. To me it looks as if wisdom didn't do aynthing in DSB.
Very high wisdom doesn't do anything for your spell casting in DSB or in DM, because wisdom with respect to determining the chances of spell failure is capped at 115.
Lunever wrote:I noticed that in DSB you can still boost even way past 255. I'm still for the 170 limit. Also, potion duration was absolutely perfectly balanced in Nexus imho.
I do like the idea of diminishing returns from potions when you start boosting stats very high. I'll add something like that.
Lunever wrote:Where do I get the new monster_ai.lua ?
I assume it's by now in the core engine of the current version?
Yes.
Lunever wrote:Maybe you could allow it as long as no function is keyed to CTRL only? Same for other key combinations like with ALT and/or SHIFT and similar?
I'd really rather not. It is doable, but I'm not sure why I thought it wouldn't be a problem-- it would be a mess, and I'm not sure how much gain there would really be.
Lunever wrote:Custom dungeons - is Zo just boolean, or can you edit a door to require a certain amount of Zo to be opened?
It's boolean. Of course, that's possible to change by hacking around in the Lua code for zo spells.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Paul Stevens »

The problem is that NOT running levels distant
from the party causes the Giggler randomizer
to stop. That randomizer distributes objects
to far corners of the dungeon.

In Conflux, too, there is a lot of important activity
going on in many levels, no matter where the party
happens to be.

I forget the details but I think the Atari engine
continued to run all active levels at a reduced
rate. Probably added as an afterthought when
CPU limits started slowing the game play.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Right, seems that a few of my less weird suggestions made it on your to-do-list, so I'm very curious about the next release.

Sophia: "I do like the idea of diminishing returns from potions when you start boosting stats very high. I'll add something like that."

Well, I'm not sure whether I understand what "diminishing returns from potions" exactly means, but I suppose it's something similiar to what I suggested.

Zo-spells: I think easiest would be to add a "spellable" door property similar to how bashable or fireballable a door ist. Would be a cool feature for riddles, especially if a dungeon designer could also design a hold portal spell that increases that property of a door. Even something like the first encounter with the Balrog in LotR was possible.

EDIT: Firestaff:

I found an old hotfix-workaround: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=28586&p=110410&hilit=firestaff#p110410
Still, this needs to repaired in the dungeon.

EDIT2: Right, so I finished the DSB-DM1 test by fusing Chaos. Well, no matter whether someone likes the somewhat silly generic DSB-outro or whether it is possible to implement the MSDOS-movie, the outro speech of the Grey Lord (which can be taken from RTC for example) is absolutely missing. Please add it to the default DM1 dungeon.

EDIT3: For a quick test I just used RADTools to convert the MSDOS Endmovie into an *.avi file. It worked fine and the file created can be watched with VLC media player. What movie file formats/codecs is DSB supporting? I guess with XMedia Recode it can be converted into any format desired.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

Paul Stevens wrote:The problem is that NOT running levels distant from the party causes the Giggler randomizer to stop. That randomizer distributes objects to far corners of the dungeon.
Thanks for the clarification. I'll fix this issue.
Lunever wrote:I think easiest would be to add a "spellable" door property
Ok, consider it added. :mrgreen:
Lunever wrote:What movie file formats/codecs is DSB supporting?
At the moment, nothing.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

No movies so far? In that case I suggest implementing support for some format that has been used by other clone engines too, saves converting issues.
Don't know anymore, I think *.ogg and/or *.mov had been used so far? Of course *.avi would also make sense, since converting *.smk to *.avi onbviously works fine too.
The RADTools also has an option to convert an *.smk movie into pictures like *.bmp, that might be useful also.

Currently I'm having a look at the test dungeon, before looking into CSB.
Can you make the quiver be more like the original DM2 quiver? That is:
- Currently arrows are drawn from a quiver-item in the scabbard slot. But they are autosorted to the 3 single quiver places instead of into the quiver-item first.
I'd prefer it the other way round.
- Currently arrows are drawn from a quiver-item only, if that is in the scabbard place. In DM2 you could also hold a quiver-item in your left hand, which gave an archer a total of 19 arrows, which is reasonable (I think most archers carry some 20 arrows). The way it is now still limits you to 12 arrows, which is a bit to few imho.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Gambit37 »

Phew, give the poor girl a chance! You're making every-bodies heads spin with all these requests, LOL!

For the record, no DM clones support movie formats. RTC has a basic animation format, but it's severely limited and not much good to be honest. DSB is better and can animate static bitmaps at any speed which could be played in conjunction with a backing track, but it does not support OGG or anything else. Supporting movies might be nice, but I think it's way down the list of priorities.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Well, adding in a few finishing text lines along with a Grey Lord appearance and after that couple of bitmaps taken from the movie will certainly do for now.

Right, *.avi was used by Nexus, but that's not exactly a clone.

In the test dungeon the firestaff transformation does work properly, so probably the malfunctioning transformation in DM1 can be repaired easily.

EDIT: Can the test dungeon be finished?
Last edited by Lunever on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

For what it's worth, I would just like to add that DSB does support ogg vorbis audio.
At least some of it... I know Gambit had some .ogg that wouldn't load for whatever reason... no idea what was up with that. :)
Lunever wrote:Currently arrows are drawn from a quiver-item in the scabbard slot. But they are autosorted to the 3 single quiver places instead of into the quiver-item first.
I'd prefer it the other way round.
I'm open to changing it. I wonder if anyone else has any opinion on the mater...
Of course, it's certainly not difficult to change with custom Lua if someone has a strong opinion on the matter for their own dungeon.
Lunever wrote:Currently arrows are drawn from a quiver-item only, if that is in the scabbard place. In DM2 you could also hold a quiver-item in your left hand
In DSB, you can get this by setting the arch's ammo_holder_hand property to true. It's false by default for a quiver because the idea of firing a bow while you were holding a quiver in your hand made no sense to me. :mrgreen:
Lunever wrote:Can the test dungeon be finished?
It is already finished. Or it will never be finished.
It's just a test dungeon. :)
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

I'm not exactly a media file format expert. Do different *.ogg files maybe use different codecs?

Well, of course you are right that no one actually would hold a quiver - cooler would be a quiver with more item slots. Since I've just seen the DM2-like money box in the test dungeon I assume a bigger quiver could be created in DSB? Like with 16 arrows? (I think DM2 just went the easy way by cloning and modifying an 8-items-only chest).

What I ment was if the test dungeon can be solved, that is do something that will trigger the DSB-outro.

EDIT:
The "CSB add matgic map" dungeon - I can play it, but if I try to open the dungeon.lua in ESB, the Editor crashes.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Gambit37 »

Sorry, I meant DSB does not support .OGV - Ogg encoded videos - or any video format.

As for Nexus using AVI -- well, AVI is just a "container", it's not a video format in and of itself. AVIs can contain videos compressed using all sorts of different codecs.... but that's a whole other conversation ;-) Nexus used the TrueMotion codec, but this is long since dead and not used by anyone anymore
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Well, since XMedia allows to change file formats as well as codecs, the interesting question is - should Sophia at some point decide to implement some video support, what format and codec would be easiest to support?
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Gambit37 »

You can't change codecs on an already compressed video without introducing more compression, unless you use some kind of lossless codec. Anyway, you'd want to start with the original high-res uncompressed sources...
To support old pixel-based movies that come with old games, you need a lossless codec. Something like the TSCC (Camtasia) codec is very good for that. BINK Smacker also does it.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

I hope we'll see some animation in some future DSB release.

Meanwhile, back to playtesting:

If in DSB a door has a fire resistance of 60, does that mean I need to produce a single fireball that does 60 damage (impossible with reincarnated characters for quite a while), or can I shoot a series of Lo-fireballs to eventually tear the door down?

Maybe I better wait with CSB for 0.52.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

Lunever wrote:If in DSB a door has a fire resistance of 60, does that mean I need to produce a single fireball that does 60 damage (impossible with reincarnated characters for quite a while), or can I shoot a series of Lo-fireballs to eventually tear the door down?
The former. Doors do not have "hit points" or anything of that sort.
Just like in DM, you have to produce all the damage required to smash down the door in a single attack, or the door stays standing.
The alternative would make setting a power level needed kind of pointless, because any door could be smashed down with enough tenacity.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

When approximately can I have a 0.52 (a version with fixed lowlevel XP, spellcasting success and stamina drain)?
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

Lunever wrote:When approximately can I have a 0.52
Approximately right now. :mrgreen:
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Oh wow! But it's 2:33 AM now here, it'll have to wait ...
Thanks for the quick release!

EDIT: What's already on your to-do-list for V0.53?

EDIT2: Will you include a debugged DM1 and/or CSB (with magic map) default dungeon in the next release?

EDIT3: Since for my favourite CSB party I have to choose Buzzzzz and Petal before I can choose Lor and Kazai, it feels strange to not have my front fighters at the first two character slots like I'm used to. I hope V0.53 will allow to rearrange them.

EDIT4: Thinking about the "pounce" flag: I'd suggst not making it a flag, but some variable that determines, how often a monster will make a surprising attack - worms wohld do it quite often, golems only once in a blue moon.

EDIT5: Thinking about character import - as an alternative to a full fledged import tool with portrait editor like in original DSB, I suggest an import mirror of life. A dungeon designer could set whether it'd work like a full-fledged mirror of life, or whether it can be used as an "ressurrection only" or "reincarnation only" mirror of life.

EDIT6: BTW, I tested V 0.52 CSB+MM and posted the report in the DSB DM+CSB fix thread.
Last edited by Lunever on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

*bump*
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Sophia »

Lunever wrote:What's already on your to-do-list for V0.53?
At the moment, a lot of stuff related to getting the renderer fully supporting images with alpha. I have a few small fixes for monster AI in mind, too. Then the lower priority stuff, like non-DM-ish UI improvements. Somewhere in there, I do want to support character importation, too. Really. :P
Lunever wrote:Will you include a debugged DM1 and/or CSB (with magic map) default dungeon in the next release?
No, I don't plan on that. I'm working on the core engine for now. Other people can fix DM if they want to.
Lunever wrote:Since for my favourite CSB party I have to choose Buzzzzz and Petal before I can choose Lor and Kazai, it feels strange to not have my front fighters at the first two character slots like I'm used to. I hope V0.53 will allow to rearrange them.
Sure, I can look into this.
Lunever wrote:Thinking about the "pounce" flag: I'd suggst not making it a flag, but some variable that determines, how often a monster will make a surprising attack - worms wohld do it quite often, golems only once in a blue moon.
I'll add a variable that lets designers tweak it.
Lunever wrote:Thinking about character import - as an alternative to a full fledged import tool with portrait editor like in original DSB, I suggest an import mirror of life. A dungeon designer could set whether it'd work like a full-fledged mirror of life, or whether it can be used as an "ressurrection only" or "reincarnation only" mirror of life.
If I'm going to handle importation, I'd rather handle it like CSB or RTC do, where you just form your party outside of the game environment.
Lunever wrote:BTW, I tested V 0.52 CSB+MM and posted the report in the DSB DM+CSB fix thread.
Thanks for the bug reports. :)
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Lunever
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lunever »

Great, looking forward to V0.53

And right - of course you have your own priorities in regard to your to-do-list, but there's one thing you should consider:
Most people stumbling upon some DM clone here firstly want to recapture their original experience with DM1/CSB, and some of them get then interested in custom dungeons.
If currently someone would ask me how to best play DM, I would have to recommend CSBWin or RTC before DSB, although DSB is not discontinued like RTC, and DSB imho has the best engine, the best editor, the most versatile open structure etc..
So an inclusion of debugged DM1+CSB as default DSB dungeons in the default download package would make DSB much more appealing to new players.
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Lord_BoNes
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Re: Big List of DSB Feature Requests

Post by Lord_BoNes »

Lunever wrote:If currently someone would ask me how to best play DM, I would have to recommend CSBWin or RTC before DSB, although DSB is not discontinued like RTC, and DSB imho has the best engine, the best editor, the most versatile open structure etc..
So an inclusion of debugged DM1+CSB as default DSB dungeons in the default download package would make DSB much more appealing to new players.
Although I haven't commented much on DSB, I must say that this a very valid point. Including DM1, CSB & DM2 was what gave other clones a "leg-up" on DSB.

And there's my 2 cents :P
 
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