Who believes in bad luck

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zoom
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by zoom »

Chaos-Shaman wrote: so i ask everyone, is luck considered to be karma?
Definitely not.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by cowsmanaut »

Well if you want to get into lucky charms. Things often considered to be lucky are not always so. The rabbits foot wasn't so lucky for the rabbit.. and the horseshoe over the door might just fall on your head.

I still participate in certain events relating to "make a wish" like blowing out candles, or when you see a clock or counter doing all the same number 3:33 for example, or a shooting star, or looking for a four leaf clover (I found one for Sandie because she insisted they were a myth.. and such a statement required that I show her the error of her ways :P I then gave it to her as an engagement present). These things (aside from the candles) are often rare events.. things noticed only once in a long while so, of course people make wishes on them. Then there is the wishing well or fountains (of which we have several, and even have signs everywhere about not throwing coins into this place because it will hurt fish etc.) Sports is full of superstition.. wearing the same shirt or socks or some other routine pregame to ensure best chances of winning. The funny thing with all of this, is that wishes and "luck" come to them so infrequently, you'd think they'd realize it's not the event.. and yet they only seem to remember the times it's "worked".. but i mean if you point out "hey, you've been doing this 20 years and only won 2 games.. " you'd probably get "so?" and they'd walk off angry :P

Oh, and never go hunting for 4 leaf clover with a dog.. if the dog doesn't suddenly burst forward and eat half the patch you're looking through.. they'll likely wander over and pee on it.. :P
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

zoom wrote:
Chaos-Shaman wrote: so i ask everyone, is luck considered to be karma?
Definitely not.
how do you define karma?

let's say that someone has taken the chances to drive drunk. now they know they shouldn't do it, they also know that it's possible to get pulled over and caught. now the first 2 times that person never gets caught for his chances they took, but on the third time testing their luck, they got pulled over and arrested for DUI. now one could say that they had bad luck, or another person could say they deserved to be caught, karma has fulfilled itself, balanced out, you get what you deserve. now is karma/odds/luck all one in the same, or is their a certain definition that can be labeled to both, with clear boundaries. maybe luck only applies if you believe in it. if a person does not care, or believe in it, how do they describe misfortune/fortune?
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

hehehe cows, you drive down the middle with luck. i wonder if you take many chances. luck could be i guess thought of as energy and number balance. if you spin the wheel on crown and anchor, it is all of natures forces at play to where the wheel will stop and all of mans design into probability. it is obvious the wheel is set more to bad luck then to good luck. if one is a gambler, why do they think they are going to be lucky, they know the odds. is there such thing as natural luck, or is it predestined? say a person missed a flight because the cabby got stuck in traffic, but that flight crashed. what would this be called?
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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The brain is very good at recognising patterns. I can't remember what it's called but there's some kind of thing which has someone's doble-barrelled name - the "Someone-Someone Effect" which is where this happens. Like when you come across a word for the first time and then over the next few days suddenly it seems to turn up a lot. So in relation to this thread, if you were to, for example, wear a particular shirt for the first time and something really good happened, you might associate wearing the shirt with the really good thing happening because on previous days when you'd been wearing a different shirt, nothign really amazing (or maybe even bad stuff) happened. Something like that. It seems silly, but this is how our brains work, apparently!
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by beowuuf »

I recall one psychology thing had poeple read a paper. THose that felt they were unlucky missed something those who felt lucky saw. It was an advert saying 'if you read this out you'll win £1000 or something like that. So yeah, if you brain is deciding to perceive somethign a certain way, it will. So it's not just we see patterns, we can filter and force patterns too!
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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prepare for the worst, hope for the best. I think that is the general theme for me. Wishing, for me, is more about participating in a game. I don't actually expect it to come true.

In some cases the term Lucky or good fortune has become something other than it's definition to some. The example you present, a person who survived this event by not participating would be called lucky or fortunate, even by someone who did not believe in luck. Their meaning is that, they are glad or at least think it's good that they didn't die. Not that they think the hand of god or fate or whatever stepped in. There are some though, that will truly think that this is exactly what happened.

As to defining luck vs karma. It is clearly different. Luck or fortune is not earned, it is granted or simply happens. Karma is earned. Karma in the traditional sense is not done to seek immediate reward.. such as a man helping a woman across the street hopes to earn good luck (via karma). Karma is recorded in order to affect ones future evolution on a spiritual level. The one who earns enough karma points manages to break free of the reincarnation loop and is allowed to move on. I think it's in this interpretation of karma leading to a point system that some conclude that you can "spend a few points" in order to get an immediate reward. It's not a coffee card where you've purchased enough coffees to get your next latte free :P

I think this is an issue we face often that ideas of certain things evolve as people pass this information on. Ie Karma starting as a record of deeds over multiple lives to break free of incarnation loop to : "if I get enough good karma I might win the lottery." There's another thing here, that one says that a good deed is not a good dead unless it is selfless. That the person doesn't expect anything in return. This is part of that spiritual journey. That you should simply do the right thing because it is right.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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Believing in luck is like tickling an enigmatic Sphinx that threatens to override your life at any second. It could lead to paradise or hell, but one should walk his own path for a while, coping with randomness and darkness, wishing and fighting like a mere mortal. Past karma will be the same as future karma if one just waits until the end. I don't know if reaching Nirvana is the ultimate answer, it sounds definitive, like murdering time while unexplored combinations still remain. I believe existence hasn't exhausted all its potentiel yet. Sorry if I'm cryptic.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by oh_brother »

I think believing in luck can have a bad effect on people. Mainly because most people who believe in luck think that they are very unlucky people. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - they assume things will not work out and then don't try so hard. Also it creates a tendency to focus on all the negative things that happen and ignore the positive. I remember reading a study in one of my brother's psychology books ages ago. It went something like this: a group of people are given a maths problem to solve. Half of them are told that it is fairly easy. The other half are told that it is next to impossible. As you can imagine the people who were told it was simple had a much easier time solving it. I have seen this is real life with people complaining about their luck not doing anything to change it, they just feel hopeless.

But just to clarify I don't think that positive thinking has any mystical properties. And everyone is entitled to feel sorry for themselves from time to time (nothing is more annoying than people telling you to "turn that frown upside down" or whatever when you are grumpy).

Maybe this is what Zyx said above, I have absolutely no idea! :? :D
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

@fippy & beowuuf: i do believe the brain is fooled into certain thought patterns, not that it has to be fooled, but it wants to be fooled and it's up to the individual to decipher it correctly.

@cows: to suffer to achieve the ultimate stage just seems wrong. if one does not achieve power, then one can not help make change. nothing produces nothing. if by any lucky stars i won big money, i'd spend it helping the poor, but they can't be helped unless you have some sort of asset, being selfless is awesome no doubt, but suffering is not necessary. i read some books on Zen and Buddha. most of this is common sense stuff. to starve for years, and walk through streets begging is not appealing. it is smart to live life low i agree. it is most certain disaster if you live like the Jones next door. if one evolves out of the reincarnation loop, they will no longer be able to influence others in a positive way, basically abandoning everyone else still left behind, this is a little selfish, so it is self defeating, for it is WANT. Ignorance and want are impossible to avoid. A Christmas Carol story says it all.

some books read: Science of Self Realization, Awakening to Zen, Basic Teachings of the Great Philosophers.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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@Zyx: man was not meant to stagnate. we were given emotions which some call spirit. Nirvana might as well be thought of as commiting suicide with no fear to reach it, heh, i'd rather take a chance at spinning the wheel :lol:
in other words, i'm not going to press my luck :) it may transpire to some unwanted karma buildup.
i wouldn't want to call somebody who has a gun in their hand too many unpleasant things, they may just use it, this to me is creating bad luck karma and i would certainly not do it, hehehe, be stupid if i did, which brings us back to odds. odds mixed with nature produce luck. Chaos Theory also mentions this type of effect. i always thought that, 2 + 2 = 4 , but in reality, 2 + 2 does not make the same 4, because time has passed since the last 4, it can't be the same. it's 4, but a slightly different 4. every particle has moved in the universe. say if it were apples to apples, the second group of 4 apples would be slightly more ripe with time.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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@brother: this is true. most people want to believe what they hear, a natural want to do good, a natural gullable state to be friendly. if somebody says you can't do it, and you like them, you are likely to believe it, but if you didn't like them, you'd want to prove them wrong. so the spirit of emotion that gives the will to challenge or to simply just except what was told. it's how one feels through karma buildup. if they don't like you, don't expect help, so you look into the karma of why they don't they like you which is usually something that was done wrong, or not of their best interest, and this knowledge of why is not always up front, but often hidden, leaving you wondering why this person works against you goals. it's a tricky world. bad karma can come from the least expected places. say you bought the nicest looking car on the block, you head out to work one morning and find it's been egged. now you can get angry all you like, but the fact is the jealousy karma happened, and you should have thought about buying something that could generate this karma. buy something real nice and it could make you even more unhappy, so it's a tricky place to be.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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Hehehe, you always need good wine to have good luck - or is it that you need good luck to have good wine? :roll:
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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hehe :) the clover didn't look so good becaue it was picked on the 13th, so it was a few days old. was having a drink of wine with the screamer, at least it began to look like one :lol: the wine,screamer and clover are seen as all good for the body.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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these are some of the books i found time to read, posting them to display i'm not that crazy, well maybe just a little :)

Your Brain is God - Timothy Leary
The Doors of Perception - Aldous Huxley
When the Impossible Happens - Stanislav Grof
Food of the Gods - Terence Mckenna
Invisible Lanscape - Terence and Dennis Mckenna

Sacred Vine of Spirits Ayahuasca - Ralph Metzner
World of Shamanism - Roger Walsh
The Sacred Heritage - Donald Sandner
Plant Spirit Shamanism - Ross Heaven and Howard Charing
Weather Shamanism - Nan Moss
Shamanic Spirit - Kenneth Meadows
Journeying - Jeannette Gagan
Chosen by the Spirits - Sarangerel
Magic Mushrooms - Clark Heinrich
DMT The Spirit Molecule - Rick Strassman

odds,luck and karma, and spirits, most of it is psychological and a good read.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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I have not read any of those books and probably won't either. I'm more a fiction reader for the joy of reading some fantasy story about knights and dragons and so on.. Though get me to the TV and it's non stop documentaries on this historical civilization or that new discovery. It's a matter of how I like to 'digest' my information :P

Anyway, I don't think one needs to suffer to do good, nor do I think they need to amass power to do so either. You see, you're looking at the situation as something that needs one man to help many. Why not 1000 people to help 1000 people? Or even to just be able to live a good life.. one which doesn't harm others. I've been through some horrid things.. I've lived on the street even.. I got myself up and got out of it.. I'm a teacher who loves nothing but the feeling that comes from opening someones mind to new possibilities. I'm not rich, nor powerful, nor do I really desire power. However, I think I do well for myself and for others. I help in my own way and it doesn't cost me a single cent. (well unless it's me buying a hot coco for the guy sitting in the cold, which I do every winter, many times)

Good Karma to me is just a matter of doing the right thing for the right reasons.. so yeah, perhaps I'm wrong.. maybe that's not what it is.. maybe there are those who think I should be suffering and living poor as can be off the land.. I've done it.. so I guess I got a few points.. but I'm not at all interested in going back to it :P
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Zyx »

Interesting thoughts and readings.

@Chaos, I agree with you about spinning some more the wheel, about things changing with time. I recommend reading Heraclitus, Husserl and Bergson about it.
But then I don't understand the aim of the one who reached his aim (Siddhārtha). After perfecting karma during 11 000 lives and reaching enlightenment about the Great Wheel, he found nothing better than quitting. Is this all there is to do about the existence of the universe? Did he ponder everything? Would an awaken universe conclude no better? I am wrong in thinking than something is better than nothing, in preferring life on planets rather than thermal death, is it just illusion? Diversity, love and creativity seem full of promises to mortals, would an enlightened reject them and embrace oblivion?
Some configurations of matter or beliefs yield synergy and allow facing bigger and more complex problems. Evolution and history have shown that previously inexistent phenomena can emerge through time (or at least that their potential can be realized). Where does this track could lead ? (Hegels says God, but it's a static concept, so it doesn't convince me).

Back to the luck concept: its depends on the meaning you give it. What you see as undesirable may be unavoidable for some higher goal, and thus justified if you only knew the goal. Maybe difficulties teach something that flat satisfaction can't, but you have to believe in something transcendent then, to accept living a life of bad luck. Religions invented an Answer, but Nietzsche killed It. Having a conviction is like mineralizing definitively your brain, so when can you be so cocksure?
Is the meaning only found in existence? Then why should I waste time thinking? Is it found by freeing myself from this world? Then why would I waste time living? Questions, questions, and Buddha's answer can't quench them.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by cowsmanaut »

another good example is Murphy's law.. which just happened to us. Our first new car, we've had it less than a month, and some @#$% hit it in the parkinglot yesterday and drove off. Looks like $500 damage minimum. So I'm hoping that he/she gains a lot of bad karma :P
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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Found in the source of CSBwin:
CHARDESC *LocateInWings(ui32 fingerprint);
i16 word64; // In the original it appeared that this was
// intended to hold an adjustment to damage
// resistance. When an attack was made by a
// character a positive or negative value was
// added to this word. When the attack expired
// (when the character's attack was no longer
// disabled) the adjustment was subtracted.
// Unfortuately, some attacks required no time
// for recovery. In such cases the adjustment
// was made when the attack occurred but, since
// it never timed out, the adjustment was never
// canceled. When a player did hundreds of these
// attacks the adjustments added up until they
// overflowed. Then the value suddenly changed
// from +32767 to -32768. It was not too terrible
// because the final computation was limited to
// to the range (0, 100). But it was noticeable
// and probably hid smaller effects of armor, etc.
// Since this word is used for only this one thing
// and since only one adjustment can be in effect
// at a time I have changed it to set the value
// and clear the value instead of adding and
// subtracting. Wish me luck.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

cowsmanaut wrote:I have not read any of those books and probably won't either. I'm more a fiction reader for the joy of reading some fantasy story about knights and dragons and so on.. Though get me to the TV and it's non stop documentaries on this historical civilization or that new discovery. It's a matter of how I like to 'digest' my information :P
you might like some of them. i like what you like, but in a game or movie although i'd most likely like reading them.
Anyway, I don't think one needs to suffer to do good, nor do I think they need to amass power to do so either. You see, you're looking at the situation as something that needs one man to help many. Why not 1000 people to help 1000 people? Or even to just be able to live a good life..
i agree, helping is all you need to do, what i don't agree with is Wanting out of life that we were given, taking the easy road as many from the East believe. my master taught me one simple lesson and the most important to him - Kindness Is The Rule - that being my father.
one which doesn't harm others. I've been through some horrid things.. I've lived on the street even.. I got myself up and got out of it.. I'm a teacher who loves nothing but the feeling that comes from opening someones mind to new possibilities. I'm not rich, nor powerful, nor do I really desire power. However, I think I do well for myself and for others. I help in my own way and it doesn't cost me a single cent. (well unless it's me buying a hot coco for the guy sitting in the cold, which I do every winter, many times)[quote\]

Good Karma to me is just a matter of doing the right thing for the right reasons.. so yeah, perhaps I'm wrong.. maybe that's not what it is.. maybe there are those who think I should be suffering and living poor as can be off the land.. I've done it.. so I guess I got a few points.. but I'm not at all interested in going back to it :P
yes, you are most likely to have a more fulfilled life that way for sure :D
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

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Zyx wrote:Interesting thoughts and readings.

@Chaos, I agree with you about spinning some more the wheel, about things changing with time. I recommend reading Heraclitus, Husserl and Bergson about it.
sure will, the greatest philosophers book speaks of heraclitus and many others, and i wished i could remember everything i read, i read those books 2 to 3 times and i still can't remember. it is interesting read on these freaks, Plato, Kant, Descates,Spencer, Rousseau,Comte, Spinoza, Berkeley, Dewey, Santayana, Hegel, Leibnitz, Locke, Aristotle, Bacon and others. [quote\]
But then I don't understand the aim of the one who reached his aim (Siddhārtha). After perfecting karma during 11 000 lives and reaching enlightenment about the Great Wheel, he found nothing better than quitting. Is this all there is to do about the existence of the universe? Did he ponder everything? Would an awaken universe conclude no better? I am wrong in thinking than something is better than nothing, in preferring life on planets rather than thermal death, is it just illusion? Diversity, love and creativity seem full of promises to mortals, would an enlightened reject them and embrace oblivion?
that's right. in order to have an aim, it is want, those who seek anything can't pass this barrier. things live and die for a reason. we have this planet that all lives on, and it isn't all for nothing that's for sure. something started it all, science says action reaction, there must have been an action reason for life and death. i see it none other than a spiral, P.I. proves that there is no perfect anything, no such thing as a real circle, which leads to a forever changing wheel of events on an axle. who ever made the axle knows, for they are not perfect... to put it blunt, God is not perfect, and so here we are.
Back to the luck concept: its depends on the meaning you give it. What you see as undesirable may be unavoidable for some higher goal, and thus justified if you only knew the goal. Maybe difficulties teach something that flat satisfaction can't, but you have to believe in something transcendent then, to accept living a life of bad luck. Religions invented an Answer, but Nietzsche killed It. Having a conviction is like mineralizing definitively your brain, so when can you be so cocksure?
Is the meaning only found in existence? Then why should I waste time thinking? Is it found by freeing myself from this world? Then why would I waste time living? Questions, questions, and Buddha's answer can't quench them.
you are putting your thinking in overtime Zyx, this is the beginning of the search for Why. most people are happy with doing absolutely nothing, as long as it leads to producing physically chemicals that produce some sort of good feeling. simply eating does this, hence why you see many large people. nothing wrong with being large and jolly :| the doublehelix sP.I.ral of imperfection attraction outweighs the mundane boring, we all want to escape. :mrgreen:
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

TOMi, thank you :)
i was wondering how the luck was done, i figured it was something lke gooddeeds/badddeeds=karma each deed being +1 -1, so when an event occurs, it checks this value, then execute good or bad scenario. the rabbits foot does not seem to operate in that manor.
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Clodius_one »

Yes, you all described well all the circumstances of a bad luck.

But for some, a bad luck, would be to undergo the bad go out by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I ear a bad story who that arrived at them. The poor people, it was atrocious for them. Yes it's certain, the chance was not on their way. They are all found in a very annoying situation. It arrived in the late 80's I believe. They had nevertheless all left from their home of an honorable intention. They were at least two groups of twenty four on thousand which, being captured alive and embedded in magic mirrors. They were hung at the entrance of dungeon to discourage new adventurers who would venture to pass under the gate to take up the challenge.

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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

huh, two groups of 24 on the thousand ? that's a lot of champions, but I have no doubt you have control, :lol:
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Clodius_one »

Sorry I forgot to precise the fact that these 2 group went on different time period. Anyway, I'm sure you got the picture.
For the God sake! free them as often as you can. They deserve peace after all. :D
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

this is the dawn, I'll set with that.... ... just counting .. . :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Bit »

there must be a reason that, when i got a chance of 99:1, the 1 happens with 99:1. :P
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by terkio »

Not I. I am not a loser :wink:
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Re: Who believes in bad luck

Post by Bit »

/me looks at terkio's signature...- that's it! ;)
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