Chest and alcove questions.

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PaulH
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Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

I am having problems with seemingly the most simple of tasks - just can't seem to get used to the editor nor the mechanics.

All I want to do is for a wall alcove to send a message to a shooter when the object in the alcove is picked up. I have

- Alcove as a trigger
- Needs constant weight, with specific item highlighted
- Send activate message to trigger

Nothing happens.

Also when I try and put a potion in a chest, it dissapears when I look at the entry again, but still thinks something is there. I then get an error message when checking layout.

The chest is cloned, but added huge for objects so can fit swords in there.
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lbk
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by lbk »

If this is a one time deal, you can simply clone your chest and put a trigger on the square that the party would be standing on when they pick the chest up, make that trigger activate when the cloned chest is over it. That way when you pick up that particular chest it will trigger the shooters.

Hope that helps.
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Gambit37
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Not sure about your second problem, but the first problem is simple: Remember that with "Constant Weight" triggers, the activation type needs to be the opposite of what you want to do. So change it to "Deactivate" rather than "Activate".

Translated to English, setting the trigger this way says "While object X is on this trigger, DEACTIVATE the shooter." This obviously implies that the opposite is true: "While object X is NOT on this trigger, ACTIVATE the shooter."

It's a bit confusing but you'll get used to it after a while.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by beowuuf »

Hmm, you changed the state of the clone chest to be accept 'huge' items. So will a sword stay in the chest?

If so, has the clone somehow forgotten the property of accepting smaller items? Or is the potion itself a clone that has lost it's only 'small' property?
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PaulH
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

I tried the deactivate, but it didn't work either.

The potion wasn't cloned, so not sure what is going on lol.

I thought about using a pressure pad infront of the alcove, but this set up will need to be repeated many times.

Anyway,a fresh day so will use fresh eyes to check it over.

Many thanks.
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Gambit37
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Can you clarify what the setup should do? It's not clear from your original description whether you want the shooter to start or stop when the player picks up the item from the alcove.

It also sounds like you may have a messed up file, given the other problems you've got. Do you keep rolling backups?
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

I do have some backups, I hope!

Put simply, I want the party to be hit by a fireball when they pick something up from the wall alcove.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Your original setup with my modification should work fine then. Difficult to help further without seeing your code...
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lbk
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by lbk »

I agree with Gambit, a setup where you have the constant weight trigger deactivate the shooter when a certain item is on it would work. I tried it out on a small dungeon and got it to work.

Code: Select all

[Items]

; Level 0
ref000500-1	WALLITEM_SHOOTER			5	0	0	SOUTH		TYPE=(DOUBLE)	SHOOTS=(DUNGEON_SPELL_FIREBALL)	STRENGTH=(40)
ref000602-1	WALLITEM_ALCOVE_ORNATE		6	2	0	WEST		OPBY=(CLOTHES_LEGS_DARC)	ACTION=(DEACTIVATE)	TARGET=(ref000500-1)	OPTIONS=(CONSTANT_WEIGHT)
ref000602-2	CLOTHES_LEGS_DARC			6	2	0	WEST
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PaulH
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

This is my code:

ref156352-1 WALLITEM_ALCOVE_SQUARE_DM2 63 52 16 WEST OPBY=(MISC_CHEST_2) ACTION=(DEACTIVATE) TARGET=(NULL) OPTIONS=(CONSTANT_WEIGHT,SOUND:NULL)
ref156352-3 SWORD_SWORDOFSTRIKING -1 -1 -1 NORTHWEST
ref156352-2 MISC_CHEST_2 63 52 16 WEST HOLDS=(ref156352-3)
ref157253-1 FLOORITEM_TELEPORTER 72 53 16 OPBY=(ALL) DESTINATION=(61,52,16)
ref157453-1 WALLITEM_SHOOTER 74 53 16 WEST TYPE=(SINGLE) SHOOTS=(DUNGEON_SPELL_FIREBALL_DM2) STRENGTH=(50)

Anything wrong there?
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Gambit37
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Your first item, the alcove, isn't targeting anything. Make it point to the shooter, your last item.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

Many apologies, I copied the wrong text for the opposite uncompleted mechanism lol.

ref155952-1 WALLITEM_ALCOVE_SQUARE_DM2 59 52 16 EAST OPBY=(MISC_CHEST_DM2) ACTION=(DEACTIVATE) TARGET=(ref157453-1) OPTIONS=(CONSTANT_WEIGHT,SOUND:NULL)
ref155952-2 MISC_CHEST_2 59 52 16 EAST
ref157253-1 FLOORITEM_TELEPORTER 72 53 16 OPBY=(ALL) DESTINATION=(61,52,16)
ref157453-1 WALLITEM_SHOOTER 74 53 16 WEST TYPE=(SINGLE) SHOOTS=(DUNGEON_SPELL_FIREBALL_DM2) STRENGTH=(50)
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PaulH
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

Hmm, I deleted the chest and started again and now it works. Very strange.

Thanks anyway.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Lol, I was hoping it was a case of forehead slapping "doh's" that would be uttered by your good self and some mild embarrasment ;) Alas, it seems not: the code looks fine to me. I'm confused. Are you sure that the shooter is facing the right way, and not into a wall or something?

Did you also manage to clean up your file to get rid of the weird clone problems you mentioned before?

EDIT Crossposted! I guess the cloned chest had caused some problem connections; I've seen this from time time -- the editor links clones to the wrong objects and all hell breaks loose...
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PaulH
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

Yes, i believe you are right on the cloned front. I just couldn't fathom it, was spending hours trying to work it out.

Onwards and upwards. A huge relief.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Save a new file and start from there. Quick! :)
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PaulH
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

Now it has stopped working again.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by PaulH »

I have solved it by using the mouse as a simple activator of the alcove.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Lord_BoNes »

@PaulH: I have a tutorial on alcove mechanics you might be interested in. It's here.
 
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

*Also when I try and put a potion in a chest, it dissapears when I look at the entry again, but still thinks something is there. I then get an error message when checking layout.

Messing with the bag, coin, chest, quiver is risky. Don't delete an item in them and replace it with something else. It crashes everytime, and you lose some of the dungeon txt :(
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Lord_BoNes »

@Chaos-Shaman: I believe that the reason for your disappearing item (inside the chest) is that you're swapping the chest into either itself or another version of itself (a clone)... whenever you swap a chest/bag/quiver only use a global swap, any other kind of convert or swap kills off the contained items. The same thing applies for monsters and the items they are carrying.
As for the editor crashing, I sure hope you're using my launcher... at least you'd have a backup from whenever you last launched. It's alot easier that having to try and re-construct a broken TXT file.
 
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

@Lord Bones:

That may be the case Bones. I never tried to swap the chest though. Just delete an item out of the chest, then tried to replace it. It even happens if you try and change the text of a scroll. Try it and see.
I've learned over the years to copy the entire RTC directory at least once every time I go to work on it. And it's very easy to copy the txt file just before fooling with the RTC engine. It's really touchy in some places. I think you mentioned about how sometimes you need to resave a file as well because RTC has trouble with it. I found those files appear grayed out slightly in the directory view, making it easy to find the problem file. RTCEDITOR does not report a problem with the file, but it won't run it unless you save it again as you pointed out.
I have not tried your launcher yet, but will adventually. Lord Bones, if you need bandwidth, or help of any kind, I wouldn't mind in the least helping out. I can see how much effort you put into RTC. How much you love DM.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Lord_BoNes »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:...to copy the entire RTC directory at least once every time I go to work on it.
This just seems abit overkill :shock:
Chaos-Shaman wrote:...sometimes you need to resave a file as well because RTC has trouble with it. I found those files appear grayed out slightly in the directory view, making it easy to find the problem file. RTCEDITOR does not report a problem with the file, but it won't run it unless you save it again as you pointed out.
Another thing that I usually do is to run a BAT file containing "attrib *.* -r /S /D" aimed at the main RTC directory. This just simply makes sure that all files have the read-only flag turned off. There used to be issues in the audio editor, but I think GG fixed it in v0.49.
Chaos-Shaman wrote:...if you need bandwidth, or help of any kind, I wouldn't mind in the least helping out. I can see how much effort you put into RTC. How much you love DM.
Thank you very much for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.
Chaos-Shaman wrote:...I never tried to swap the chest though. Just delete an item out of the chest, then tried to replace it. It even happens if you try and change the text of a scroll. Try it and see.
Hmmm, that is interesting. Have you tried to swap the item into a "null object"... clone a FUL_BOMB, set lifetime to -1 (instant expire) and all it's convert objects to NULL.
I remember seeing something like this with an object a party member is carrying... the item's icon goes all dodgy (keep's changing to random other icons).
If the above solution doesn't work, try swapping to a "null object" with a lifetime of 1 (instead of -1) and then I give it a blank icon, and a name "  " which is a space followed by an ALT code 255 (hold ALT, press 255 on the number pad, and release ALT) the 255 code is the character code for a "null character". Putting the "null character" after the space stops the editor from trimming the space off the end of the string. Having this blank string stops the item's name popping up for a moment in the top right (1 tick, before it expires).

I hope I've helped Image
 
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I think it was soaponarope that was inquiring on the chest. Thanks for the in depth description though. When I need to fool with the chests etc, I just delete the whole thing, to make sure :)
To copy my RTC directory takes 2 minutes. It's a well worth it 2 mins. I make a tea and it's done, and I have 7 location saves, just to make real sure! First year using RTC almost put me off,
but I knew in time that I'd learn the spots not to mess with. I doubt any other engine is going to offer the scope of abilities that RTC has. It is buggy because it can be changed in so many ways,
that it'd be a while before anyone knows the true capabilities of the engine. GG is a true master wizard. What a brain. He must of dreamed RTC, because it's like out of a dream to me.
I can spend an hour in the bath, and in all that time, my mind would be so actively working on the possibilities he left behind. Beating Chess at level ten is nothing compared to what it must of
taken GG to plan RTC. I'm still in awe that he's not here looking after his first baby. The plan is to be here when he comes back. Chaos is loyal to the Greylord.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Sophia »

Chaos-Shaman wrote:I doubt any other engine is going to offer the scope of abilities that RTC has.
I don't mean to hijack this thread with promotion of DSB, because I'm well aware that it's not for everyone. However, this sentence is just plain not true. :)
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Speak your mind Sophia. I'm curious to hear what you've done in comparison :) If you say you have an apple as equal to GGs apple, I'd love to know how far you've gone. To succeed you'll have to get a new lamo like myself to learn on their own, and then build a dungeon. When I see this, I'll believe it. I told you 4 years ago that everything was a test. You probablly don't even remember our conversations. I don't forget. Man, I know some trolls that do not like being dismissed as stupid. You'll find out later. Careful what you say, that's my suggestion to you. Some fruit looks good to eat, but looks can be deceiving. I do wish that you've made a comparible engine as GGs, cause I really do love DM. I won't piss on your engine, but please stop pissing on GGs. He's a master, and has earned the tittle of Greylord. I'm not insane either Sophia, but I'll play this game as long as it takes.
Just have a read of ALL your messages and see for yourself your own negativity. Maybe that will shine some light on the situation. In a game a chess, often you'll win when your opponent underestimates you and your moves. I'm sure you're mature enough to understand what I'm conveying here. Maybe I'll shine a little light for you. You made a help file for RTC, but pulled it off the shelf. Why Sophia, WHY? It was to help others, but you were so pissed at GG, you yanked it away. In my eyes, that's a no no. You don't get what you want so look what you do. I ASKED YOU for a small amount of help, oh boy, were you irrate about that. You said....
IF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH RTC I DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF IT. You can see the problem, you got some people looking at your file for help, then ask you for help, then this is the attitude you offer.
I wish that you straighten out what ever it is that made this mess. I await your engine with a peaceful handshake when you're ready Sophia. On a funny note, you stole my favorite avatar, which is why you see chani skeletons :) It's up to you from here on end whether you want to tolerate each other or not. Try not to hack me or RTC down so much, maybe the trolls will go away. They are formidable, and very real, hehehehehe
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Gambit37
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

Um..... Wow. Where did all that come from!? OK, Chaos-Shaman, Sophia posted with a smiley, there is no need for you to get so mad. The fact remains that DSB *is already* more powerful than RTC, so it's right for her to point out that your claims about RTC are incorrect. DSB allows total customisation of *everything* in the game, RTC does not.

There's also no need to dig up the past. All those arguments are over. Just let it lie. As for the rest of your comments, I strongly suggest you edit out the personal attacks in your post or I'll edit it for you. And please get a bit of perspective over George. Sure, he's a smart guy and RTC is a great tool, but Sophia is a smart girl and DSB is also a great tool. Both George and Sophia deserve equal respect for what they have achieved.

Please stop behaving so childishly or this thread will be locked.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by beowuuf »

Agreed, don't not bring up the past nor launch an personal attack on an admin that I believe you have good relations with!

You've said in the past you think you've said things you think people are annoyed with. The answer was no, you hadn't. This is definitely something annoying. Please do not do it, or if you have to take it to a private place and accept the consequences that someone might not care to engage with you.
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Yes, it does seem childish, and so I agree. But what I said was dealing with that very thing you accuse me of. There has been a continual attack on my end. God bless the forum for the proof. It's not in anyones best interest that's for sure. If we can get along is a much better choice by far. Sorry I got so mad when I saw an administrator give me the fail sign with no smily. I'll do my best to reframe from getting excited.
I'm sure that Sophia will make the best engine in the future. @beowuuf, i am aware of the risk here on engagement, have been all along. That gets me upset more than ever.
Thanks for editing my ranting. I'd like to go back to my normal self, you know, chaos who never uses capitols, speaks low key, sounds a little dipsy.
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Gambit37
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Re: Chest and alcove questions.

Post by Gambit37 »

For the record, I have not edited your post.
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