Global Swap Issues

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Saumun
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Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

I have come across something pertaining to this exact issue in another thread, but there was no reply or follow-up to the post in question.

I'm having trouble swapping an object for a clone of the same object. The only difference is that the cloned object has an animated icon and the original doesn't.
The issue is this:-

it only appears to work when stepping on the trigger while already facing north. If you step on the trigger in any other direction it doesn't swap the object.... just north. It also doesn't work if you step on it from another direction and then turn north.
Strangely though, swapping the cloned object back to the original works every time and in any direction.

I've tried the fast global swap and the regular. I've tried using multiple triggers, relays, etc... I've tried cloning completely different objects rather than just from the original. I even cloned the original twice... one to imitate the original and one for the animated object. In this case it didn't swap at all (even stepping north).

Or did it? I previously tried cloning a compass for one that worked in reverse. When the trigger was stepped on, the swap happened and then immediately swapped back despite having no action relating to this (and i DID take out the directional swaps in the 'convert' tabs) . Could this be what is happening in the issue above? If so.... Why?
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

I don't understand why you're having problems. It works as expected for me. Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to do...
I guess you're swapping between items that can go in the inventory? I've tried that with a DM2 sword: I created a clone that just has an animated icon, put some triggers activating the swap_global or swap_global_fast actions to turn the original to the clone, and it worked, in any direction. A lever swapping back to the original works as well. I tried with two existing floor objects, it works too.
The compass swapping is more complicated since you have to swap all the possible versions of the compass: it requires numerous actions.

The txt and RTC files are there (the link lasts 1 week): http://we.tl/cPPUNupB3M . Hope it helps. If not, I need more details on what you're trying to do.
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Saumun
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

I'm such an idiot... and apologies for wasting your time (not to mention a post).
When considering the directional dependencies (as in the compass), i wasn't looking at each direction as a different object.
In the case of the compass, i was only swapping MISC_COMPASS for the new object, and not considering MISC_COMPASS_EAST, etc, as also requiring an action.

D'oh :oops:
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terkio
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by terkio »

I see we better be ready for a magnetic storm area in your dungeons.

I hope this will not pop up the debate how the DM compass should work. The needle of a real compass points to North, the DM compass is right.
"You can be on the right track and still get hit by a train!" Alfred E. Neuman
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Saumun
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

I neither confirm nor deny.
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

:) That's ok, it took a few minutes to build the test, compute, send and write the message. At least it brought me back to RTC, it might help me going back to my old dungeon in construction.
Oh, and I actually did the same mistake as you with the compass.
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Saumun
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

Igor...

When you say 'back to RTC'... Have you switched to other editors or are you just sporadically working in RTC?
I have used RTC simply because it was the first one i found. I downloaded DSB/ESB a couple of weeks ago with a view to learning how to build.
After today's issues, i'm leaning even more to learning DSB (no chance of the object limit being increased in RTC since it is no longer supported).
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

I sporadically work in RTC.
I just left my dungeon for about 2 years, but I need to finish it some day... The txt file is about 1500ko, I have about 1 000 new gfx files, including most of the Black Crypt gfx that were never extracted before: it's big and it would be a shame to leave it unfinished.
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Saumun
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

I know this isn't quite the same thing, but can someone tell me how to steal or destroy a specific object in the party's inventory.
I've never tried it, and want a specific item destroyed when it is carried past a certain point.
The steal options in the actions seem to only cover mouse, hands or all and doesn't allow an object to be selected.
I can't do a global swap, as it requires a second object. I just want the object destroyed whether it is on mouse, in hands, or inventory.
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

It would probably be better to create a new topic for this question, so other people interested in it can find it. The best would be to let the admin move it to a new topic (maybe?).
My first idea is the rust_party_all action, with strength 100. I don't know if that would do it for you. From my testing, it corresponds to a 100% probability of activating one single "rust" conversion (convert tab of the item) on any item in each character inventory, including any piece of armor or anything in hand. It doesn't affect the item in mouse though, so you'd need an additional rust_mouse action. I guess you'd better test it to see exactly how it works. You can change the "rust" conversion to lots of things, but I can't find a way to simply destroy the item, or even to destroy a given item through an action. Is there anything like that?
Also, remember that the player could throw the item above the action activator...

Also, what is the "expire" tab about in the items convert tab? And the break tab? Which items use them and how are they activated? It might be interesting to look into this...
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

Mmmh, I forgot some classic tricks. Just swap (or "rust") the item for an invisible, silent "cloud", and that's it, the object is destroyed.

Edit: it won't work for swap, but it works for rust... This would be a solution if you don't want to use rust for something else, nor for several items that the player could own at the same time.

New edit: it does work for swap, not for swap_fast. And it won't destroy an item that the player is not carrying. I guess that's just what you need
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

Allright, I've been talking too fast... Too bad we can't edit our posts after a few minutes, sorry for the third post in a row...

Forget everything else I said, here's a working, very clean solution: an "on and over" trigger activated by the item you want to delete. It activates a swap_tile action. Strength: 100 (100% probability), swaps the item into a silent and invisible cloud (which is the best destruction technique i guess). And that's it, I think, the item won't go through. It only destroys this item, and only when it's on this tile, be it on the floor, in air, in the inventory, in hand, in the mouse. If the party carries dozens of these items, they will even all be destroyed at the same time.

Maybe these post could go in a "how to destroy items" topic. Both the swap_global and swap_tile could be very useful in many dungeons.
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Igor Poulpupov
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Igor Poulpupov »

4th post in a row? Yesssss.
You actually don't even need to swap the items into a cloud, swap_global and swap_tile accept "null" as second argument. I guess you were trying to use swap_global_fast. Anyway, in what you want to do, you have to use swap_tile.
BTW, I guess a swap_global would have solved the problem you had with switches in a previous topic, supposing of course that these switches were unique cloned objects.
Also... This has all already been discussed here: http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=28877 :/ Searching "destroy" in the RTC editing subforum was the solution...
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Saumun
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Re: Global Swap Issues

Post by Saumun »

I was going to start a new thread, but was wary of starting another that may get one answer and then die (not sure of the etiquette here), and thought it may be sufficiently close to the original topic.

Anyway... That works fine. Thank you. I was indeed using the fast swap and assumed the regular swap would be the same without actually trying it. I really should know better than that.

The cloud thing is a nice idea though. I have used invisible clouds for other things, but it didn't occur to me to swap for it.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
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