Is this a RTC Bug?

Questions about how to create your own dungeons and replacement graphics and sounds.

Moderator: George Gilbert

Forum rules
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
Post Reply
User avatar
DM_Player
Adept
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: USA

Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by DM_Player »

In a game that I've been working on forever (nearly complete now), I want the final battle to be with just one character. In my game, this character starts the game in the party before any other characters are added, so its member 1. So, this character starts the game solo and ends the game solo.

To remove the other characters, I use a trigger that is operated by EACH PARTY MEMBER to trigger relays that check each character in the dungeon (except the one that will have the final battle) and if that character triggered the event (i.e., the character is in the party) then I use the wall item action ACTION REMOVE CHARACTER FROM PARTY to remove the character and place it back in its original mirror. This does remove the 3 characters that will not be part of the final battle from the party, but there's an issue. If the character that I want to remain is the PARTY LEADER, but one of the other characters is currently highlighted in the rune selector (doesn't matter which of the other 3 is highlighted) then after the 3 characters are removed the rune selector goes blank and no longer displays the runes.

Since RTC can be buggy, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing something wrong so I made a bare bones test dungeon. It only has 3 tiles, 4 mirrors with characters in the mirrors, and a trigger (op by each party member) with a pressure pad graphic. I then added 3 relays, each checking for one of the 3 characters to be removed. These relays triggered an ACTION REMOVE CHARACTER FROM PARTY event to put the character back into its mirror. In this bare bones dungeon, the same error (rune selector goes blank and doesn't display runes) occurs when the characters are removed. Interestingly enough, it seems that if the character that remains is in any other position than member 1, then the error doesn't occur! I could test this in this bare bones dungeon, since all of the characters originally start off in mirrors (but in my dungeon this is unfortunately not the case).

I don't believe there is a way to change which character has the rune selector active and since the member order of the characters is determined by when they are added to the party, it looks like this will be a bug without a fix. I think my only option is to give an in game warning to be sure that member 1 isn't the leader with another member having the rune selector active before the characters are removed, but I would welcome any other suggestions or fixes.

Thanks!
DM_Player
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

Strange one... Never noticed this before, so i set up a quick test and got the same results.

I think it must be connected to the EACH_PARTY_MEMBER and EACH_LIVING_PARTY_MEMBER OpBy, since this doesn't happen if you use a simple PARTY OpBy to target your relays.
The problem with that is that a member would have to be selected and removed one by one.

I obviously don't know about what you want to do with your dungeon, so i have a couple of questions...

Do you need all the other members to be removed at the same time?
Is it possible you could set up a small scenario where the player must remove the party members before you can progress, or would that spoil the flow of the dungeon?

I set a floor trigger OpBy as PARTY and had it target conditional relays for each character and it worked fine, but the particular character has to be selected for it to work. Not ideal, but it gets around this rune selector bug.
A way that works well is to have the trigger cycling rapidly via a relay loop. Then you don't need to step off the trigger square... You just select the characters and they exit the party. You could trap the party on the square and have the relays also target a further set of conditions, so that the exit will only open when only your original character is left.
I didn't try this, but it's definitely doable. Don't know if this will fit in with what you want to do.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
DM_Player
Adept
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by DM_Player »

Sauman,

Thanks for checking this out. Since we're both seeing the same thing occur, it looks like it's an RTC bug.

Removing the party members in this dungeon is part of a multiple ending sequence. Keep the party whole and declare success is one ending. Remove the party members and fight a final solo battle is another ending. So I don't think I really have a way to remove them one at a time when the non-wanted characters are designated as the party leader (in order just to use a party trigger), but I'll think about it. Maybe I can come up with a dialog that has some kind of grand farewell for each character where they have to be the leader first. Otherwise, it will be back to putting an in game warning about an this RTC bug to give a player a chance to set everything up to avoid it.
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

Aah... I've misunderstood. I thought your starting character would always be the leader. My mistake.

But yes, i'd agree it looks like a bug. I used EACH_PARTY_MEMBER a number of times in my last dungeon, but not concerning mirrors so didn't notice anything amiss. Something to look out for in future.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
DM_Player
Adept
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by DM_Player »

The work around that I decided on is to remove all 4 characters from the party and then add the one character back into the party. This causes the rune selector to go back to normal and display the runes. It's not ideal, as you have to re-equip the character, but I expect that a player would be re-equiping the character for the final battle anyway.
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

Nice... How far are you from finishing this? Looking forward to playing it.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
Chaos-Shaman
High Lord
Posts: 2642
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: The Gates of Hell

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Been through all of this trouble, it is a bug, the runes would disappear and would sometimes come back when adding a character back. I was hoping someone would find a way to fix that. If you have a starting character, what can happen is the mirror where the character was frozen in can hold a different character when removing. I look forward to your dungeon DM_Player. Strange things can happen in RTC. Help if I can.

Removing a character while over a trigger can cause a crash or at least that's what I think it is.
keep your gor coin handy
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

DM_Player... I know this is an old one, but there is a way around this problem. It's not very elegant though.
I had forgotten all about this bug until I stumbled across it again in my new dungeon.
As CS mentioned in the above post, adding the lead character restores the runes to the rune selector. I tried this over and over and it seems to work every time.
So removing a character, then removing and adding the lead character in the same trigger or relay is virtually imperceptible. The only problem is that all the lead character's objects are dropped and they take a temporary stat hit.
The stats can be restored immediately via a 'boost character by object' action.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

D'oh... Sorry!
I had only read the last post. Only just read further up and realised you already did that. :oops:
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
Chaos-Shaman
High Lord
Posts: 2642
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: The Gates of Hell

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

I am sorry I missed this one.

I also had it crash while adding the character back. The spell book has caused a crash as well. Boosting stats has also had a crash when adding removing characters
keep your gor coin handy
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

I had a crash when I first tried the remove>>add>>boost thing, but I had a condition set wrong in a relay.
Since then it has worked everything.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
Chaos-Shaman
High Lord
Posts: 2642
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: The Gates of Hell

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

What was the condition? I over boosted the health I believe. I am not a programmer nor understand how George put this together. All I have is trial and error info and a bit of common sense. This is why we need to work together, there are things we both tried and know about.
keep your gor coin handy
User avatar
Saumun
High Lord
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: The Ether

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Saumun »

It was just the wrong character name in the relay that caused the crash (but strangely no diagnostic report).

But now something equally strange happens.
I cloned an object (any will do... I used a cape) and boosted all the stats in it, then had the relay target a boost by object action (the cape).
This works exactly as expected when I add a character, but strangely not when I remove and re-add the lead character. Instead it seems to have a negative and seemingly random effect.
I tried using negative values, and adding slight delays but no joy as yet.
It is something I'm going to play around with.

The dungeon (part one) is now finished, but untested. It's little bits like this that I'm tidying up at the moment.
“Grynix Ernum Quey Ki Skebow Rednim U Os Dey Wefna Enocarn Aquantana” - Anon
User avatar
Chaos-Shaman
High Lord
Posts: 2642
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: The Gates of Hell

Re: Is this a RTC Bug?

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

It was just the wrong character name in the relay that caused the crash (but strangely no diagnostic report).
Had this when starting with a character without a mirror, you can change who goes into the mirror. That screwed me up for a while.
This works exactly as expected when I add a character, but strangely not when I remove and re-add the lead character. Instead it seems to have a negative and seemingly random effect.
You got it, that is exactly what happens. Sometimes when an object is removed and added, rrrrrrrrrrr, it gave me a headache :? as you say it may be from it being a target or having different settings.
keep your gor coin handy
Post Reply