dealing damage continuously to the whole party

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Leslie
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dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Leslie »

Did anyone yet try to build an area in which the whole party takes damage continuously?
With a relay activating a damage_bymonster action in a loop I can deal damage to the party leader, but not to all characters at once.
And a damage item on the floor just deals damage when the party is moving.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

The ‘Damage’ floor mechanic hits the whole party, and you can put it in a relay loop like anything else (activate and deactivate), but isn’t there a party_bymonster action? I’m not at my computer.
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Leslie
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Leslie »

I did not see a party_bymonster action, at least not in the list of the wallitems in the action category. Am I looking at the wrong place?
Damage tiles on the floor, activated in a loop by relays, actually work. But they also damage creatures.
What I could do is giving each square it's own relay, activating only the damage mechanic on that particular square. That's using a lot of relays, but works.
What are the bells that never ring? Enchanting smell, beautiful thing.
What are the lions that never roar? The wind blows their children far over the shore.
What are the gloves not worn by the hand? But worn by the foxes throughout the land.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

I’ll have a look later today. I’m sure it can be done.
Another way is to clone a certain spell (say poison bolt), take out all bitmaps and sounds to make it invisible and silent.
Fill the area with shooters, shooting that spell on a relay loop.
Clone the monsters for that area, and reduce their poison bolt damage to zero, so they won’t be affected.

But I’m sure it should be possible with actions. As I said, I’ll check later.

Edit: For the setup above, you’d also need to clone a cloud for the spell, and take out the bitmaps for that too.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Also, how is the damage started? Via a floor trigger?
If so, which OpBy are you using?
DAMAGE_BYMONSTER should work for the whole party if the trigger is set with a ‘Each Living Party Member’ OpBy.
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terkio
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by terkio »

Hello Saumun, this constant damage to the party reminds me of a dungeon of yours.
A dungeon in which there is a level that has poisoned air, so the party could not survive for long, unless you had the right gear.....of course.
Was that "Dark Reign 2" ?
You sure know how to damage continuously the whole party. :-)
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Yes, that was Dark Reign 2.
It was done with floor damage tiles that didn’t activate if you had the breathing apparatus.
With hindsight, I could have done it more efficiently with action mechanics.
You live and learn.
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Leslie
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Leslie »

Saumun wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:24 am Also, how is the damage started? Via a floor trigger?
If so, which OpBy are you using?
DAMAGE_BYMONSTER should work for the whole party if the trigger is set with a ‘Each Living Party Member’ OpBy.
I have a floor trigger which activates a relay. The relay then activates the damage and itself again after some seconds. It is done in this way to get loop working independently from party movement.
The ‘Each Living Party Member’ OpBy works if I do not use the relay. Then each party member gets the damage. But as soon as the relay comes into play, again only the party leader is damaged.
What are the bells that never ring? Enchanting smell, beautiful thing.
What are the lions that never roar? The wind blows their children far over the shore.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Hmmm, yes.

Here’s an idea that might work. I haven’t tried it, but can’t see why it wouldn’t. You’d still have to use damage tiles, but it would cut the number of relays needed to just three.

Clone the damage tile. Call it whatever you want, then set up two action mechanics... with ACTION_OBJECT_ACTIVATE in one and ACTION_OBJECT_DEACTIVATE in the other, and your cloned damage tile as ‘Object 1’ in both.
Have the relay loop activate them at your desired timing, and they should switch on/off all your cloned damage tiles.
It won’t work any differently than what you already have, but is much more efficient.
Alternatively, use the shooter/invisible spell idea I detailed earlier (the advantage being that you can make monsters immune to the spell, and thus take no damage).
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Leslie
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Leslie »

Saumun wrote: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:50 pm Clone the damage tile. Call it whatever you want, then set up two action mechanics... with ACTION_OBJECT_ACTIVATE in one and ACTION_OBJECT_DEACTIVATE in the other, and your cloned damage tile as ‘Object 1’ in both.
Have the relay loop activate them at your desired timing, and they should switch on/off all your cloned damage tiles.
It won’t work any differently than what you already have, but is much more efficient.
Tried this, and it works :)
Actually I don't even need the ACTION_OBJECT_DEACTIVATE mechanic, it also works with just a relay looping the ACTION_OBJECT_ACTIVATE mechanic.
When I have some more time I will experiment with a damage tile dealing stamina damage. Maybe that one does not hit monsters, I don't know yet.
Many thanks Saumun :)
What are the bells that never ring? Enchanting smell, beautiful thing.
What are the lions that never roar? The wind blows their children far over the shore.
What are the gloves not worn by the hand? But worn by the foxes throughout the land.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

I’m playing around with stamina drain in part 2 of The Trail, but haven’t tried it on monsters.
I’d imagine that since they have no stamina stats, it probably does nothing to them... but I don’t know for sure.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Perhaps using the party's tile will give the desired effect to all party members.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Hmm, yes.
You could keep the action mechanism you already have, but just put a single cloned damage tile on the party square. Then you could simply activate the loop with a trigger, and deactivate the loop with another trigger when you leave the area.
This way, the monsters would not be affected.
Would also cut down on objects even more.

However, there are certain things that don’t seem to work on the party tile, like party triggers activating will not work without movement. Can’t promise a damage tile would be any different... but worth a try.

Might check that out myself later, if time allows.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

like party triggers activating will not work without movement.

there is no way around this unfortunately, but if the trigger is deactivated and then activated it should work and if that is in a loop it should continue looping. It's been sometime that I have goofed around with the party's tile, it's the key to a lot of effects.


We investigate together more on this, as you say, time allowing. My next two months are very very busy with children's birthdays and holidays. I'll still devote some time on this. I already have done some testing on it, as you say, triggers won't work without movement.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

I’ve tried in the past to have an inactive trigger on the party square that activates to make something happen, but it never works until the party turns or moves.
Of course it’s possible to turn the party, then turn them back via actions, which would force the trigger to be operated. What’s more, it can be done imperceptibly quickly (I know, because I did it in The Trail).
These things can definitely be done... sometimes it just takes a couple of extra actions to hack around the problem.

As for Leslie’s thing with the damage tile... that may work without hacks, since after the initial trigger it isn’t relying on OpBys to activate it.
Can’t be sure. Will try at some point.
I’ve done continuous damage areas before, but used lots of objects. Be interesting to see how much I can simplify it.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Of course it’s possible to turn the party, then turn them back via actions, which would force the trigger to be operated. What’s more, it can be done imperceptibly quickly (I know, because I did it in The Trail).

Yes, I have done that too, turning the party will activate the trigger. I am wondering if teleporting the actual party to a tile with a trigger and back again might also work to set off the trigger. I tried so many things I wish I could remember it all. I have a lot of accumulated notes on RTC, about 10 years worth. It will be nice to work with others on some of the issues.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Yes, it does work. That’s what I did for certain secrets in The Trail, and also a portion of the KuRos level.
If you teleport there and back with the timing left at zero, the effect is imperceptible (of course the queuing must be correct).
I’ve done it in levels with different wallsets, lighting, etc.
You can’t tell it’s happened and it works well.
In all these cases, I used it to force a trigger.

I also use the trick in rows of several instantaneous teleports, so that even if you throw something or cast a spell it appears as if you’ve never moved, as they’re teleported mid-flight and continue on their trajectory.
Cases in point (again in The Trail)... Bellande House appears to be on the same level as the town, but isn’t. The Sewer appears to be on the same level as the lower caves, but isn’t.
All done by rows of teleports.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

Hmmm, that is great. There were some interesting things in your dungeon.

So far RTC has shown capability, would you like to start a new topic on this. We can list all the things that have been tried, like the banking/trading system, teleporting etc. That would be interesting to chat about, and if we're feeling up to it, try and implement it in a dungeon.
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Saumun
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Re: dealing damage continuously to the whole party

Post by Saumun »

Yeah, we can do that.
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