Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Forum for the finished DM D&D game 'Time's Champions' run by beowuuf

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beowuuf
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Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by beowuuf »

Anyway, so one of the major plot beats has been put out into the open - your characters seem to be having a little deja vu because you appear to have been thrown back in time by the Grey Lord.

So, I thought I'd open a thread about my reasons why for everyone to see, and then let you guys comment, and ask questions. Not too many questions, because time travel is inherently complicated and bad, and if you poke aroudn too much you might find plot holes. Stop it! :D

Why? (metagame-wise) I needed a few criteria for the plot, and for smoothing the mechanics of DM with D&D. I wanted to be able to have you guys just start without needing a back story, and yet be able to gently nudge a reason you guys were together if the dynamic didn't have a natural cohesion. I also wanted to have you guys able to develop a backstory, or be able to just maturally let the character flow out of what you were playing. Wiping the mind of your characters metagame wise seemed an idea to slowly introduce spells, etc (good for me toying with the game, but also building up your characters abilities like DM) and also let you all concentrate on RPing with each other in isolation of a character agenda.

Of course, reincarnation fits in with alot of this, except a) I didn't want to force you guys to be cute with the 'oh, we have woken up here, beside these mirrors) and be thrown into a metagame from the start. Plus, I liked the idea of you being able to choose if you recalled a backstory, or if your characters actions in the game mattered enoough that his history wasn't as important.

Mechanics wise, obviously there are several game-y aspects of DM I wanted to introduce to D&D and the game. Being able to heal while sleeping, having food drain faster, levelling up much faster, etc. Again, I liked the idea that this could be subtly introduced, and be part of a mystery (hence temporal energy letting you guys recover and 'live' faster for a while...the idea was to slow it down over time, instead the various actions of the party meant it was easier just to abandon it as a mechanic.)

Plot wise, it gave me the ability to throw in little warnings or oddness to nudge the plot if needed ( don't think it was needed much) or create a better bond for the group (don't thinkit was necessary, but I hope your history/non-history together has given you more to play off of than your initial intereactions).

So yeah, thatwas my 'reasoning' for time travel


Why? (game world wise) Well, it seems the Grey Lord has pushed you guys back in time for some reason. And I hope I have pitched enough concern about the Grey Lord that while he is good, he is obviously normal in his good/evil axis and balance that he is not necessarily does serve 'balance' and have a balance of traits to deal with rather than a black and white good. So yeah, don't count on him doing something 100% safe and right in sending you back in time.... It seems you guys did meet, did journey throug hthe dungeon before (though perhaps a few weeks later than you are now) and more or less beat the bad guy. However, it appears the 'more-or-less' is the important part, and somehow something went wrong./ ewnough for the Grey Lord to push you backwards. It seems the soul stone referenced may well have been how you triumphed before...and yet somehow it was not enough.

How does the mechanic work? Ok, so this is not going ot be Terminator nor back to the future rules. Terminator rules - you can physically go back in time, but nothign you do changes your own history (either you are pre-destined, or you will remember everything as it was before). Back to the future rules - you go back in the past physically, but mucking aroudn there can erase your future and thus yourself.

Instead, think more about the time travel in the Sorcery gamebooks. In that, you can mentally travel back into your own past, or physically travel back in time beyond that, but will then most likely get lost. In that, going back without proper knowledge you can get assimilated into your own past self and so just relive your life again. However, that travel is 'allowed' (there is a spell for it, after all, and the time serpent existed)

In this case, there is no hint of time travel in the DM world. I'm quite happy for that, as it gives a new note for what you guys are doing. It also answers the question 'why don't people do this if it exists' if I make it bad. Very bad. (OB will already know this, I think I said bad five times to him :D ). The idea that the world would basically try and make you forget yourself if you go back beyond your time, or just try and mentally bond you to your old self still seems cool, but to me is a survival mechanism. And to me, no spell exists because not even the High Lords would try and do this. Because they would, of course, simply lose their personality (and likely magic, if magic causes this, it seems likely the natural counteraction of the world is to erase the ability to use that magic).

However, what if you were the Grey Lord, who's know to be a little bit short-focused (power gem anyone) decides that the present must not be allowed to continue? Well, people who didn't actually create the time travel willgo back. Therefore, technically the old future will still exist (as the person who cast the spell and created that link is still there). Therefore, until that future is irrevocably 'shattered' , that means there are two potential futures (which is bad) and two points in time connected together (which is also bad).

Hey kids, anyone notice those earthquakes?


So anyway, here's how it's worked. Imagine a first run. There were hints in the backgroudn that two weeks later than 'now' you guys all met, travelled the dungeon together, did heroic things (like defeat Soorec and so forth) and together with the Grey Lord saved the day. Almost.

At the end of that, the Grey Lord blasts you guys backwards in time. Your physical bodies go into a limbo of quantum potential. You mentally rejoin your old minds. However, it appears your bodies in the 'now' were yanked from where they were to where your future bodies would have landed, pulled together as it were.

It appears your minds tried to self-heal by shutting out memory of your immediate future given the collision of two trains of thoughts. Especially, your minds shut down to any magic you had (because magic caused this, and so magic is bad as far as your brain can comprehend.

So now you guys are in the 'now' doing a second run, where you actually hadn't met yet, have been teleported into the dungeon, and have to stop what's going on apparently.

Your minds have tried to navigate the sheer wrongness of what has happened. Slowly, they have knit together the most acceptable 'first run' memories of how you guys met, to form a false history and fill in the oddness of knowing people you have not, actually, met before. Your minds sort of (when you first slept) tried to deal with this, and each of you were offered a choice of the modified memory, or the reality of not knowing the peopel around you. Note there were alos alot of will saves as either future memories tried to intrude, or your mind tried to make sense of strangeness. That had settled down.

So, for a while you guys have moved on happily. However, now for some reason Ameena's weird reappearance has been triggereing a second wave of memory hits. Ameena seems to be walking around compeltely recalling the first run events, and totally forgetting anything about the 'second run' branch you guys have lived. Westian seems to be recalling the future memories now, while still keeping his foot firstly with the second run memories. Falkor seems to have been gently drifting into a few third run memories. And Haynuus seems to be floating in the immediate now, seeing both sets of memories but not selecting either as the truth.


Anyway, just so you guys get some idea of the timeline:

Both runs:
Westian is in his order, Haynuus is wondering around looking for some direction, Ameena meets Helm on the road then spends an evening sleeping after they part, and Falkor has net with a mage called Fex but declined his offer, hanging around in Viborg. Note, this is where - in this first run - all your guys actually ended your backstory on. The next thing you know, you were in the dungeon!

Something had happened a few week ago that eventually storred the interest of Westian's order. Brother Deephold was dispatched. Deephold has met up with Fex as a guide to Anaias, Helm has been drafted as the thief, and together they have ranged into the dungeon. And apparently found some strange stuff.

First run:
Obviously, Deephold's mission does not work. By a few week's later, in secret Westian is dispatched. He encoutners and befriends Haynuus, while in Vioborg Ameena has come to Viborg and met Falkor. Westian meets up with Falkor, since Falkor is the last lead to Deephold's guide Fex.

The group go into the dungeon, have a set of exciting adventures, including defeating Soorec, and then somehow get blown back in time two weeks backwards...

Second run:
The group's past selves are teleported from being settled in their evening routine, to appearing at the start of mount anaias and knocked unconscious by the efforts of their future selves minds sharing space. Meanwhile, Deephold's mission is already going to pieces, with Fex apparently desertign the group, and Helm trying ot get back to the front door.

The group essentially reconstruct the two week's of future memory that would place them in anaias as present memory, and then move onwards to solve the mystery!

Apparently, because Ameena has no memory of her now, encountering the spirit girl is not something they had done before...



Anyway, is that clearer? At the moment this is really to clarify and remind Ameena/OB, and is only probably a revealtion to Ian. Obviously, Raixel as a lurker of the paty's story might be interested in that plot point, and hopefully money and LB might return and be able to catch up at least on that plot beat.


So, questions? Comments? Criticisms? Theories?
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by Ameena »

Can I criticise the fact that you spelt "criticism" wrong? ;)
As for the time travel thing, as you said, none of that is news to me since I've already been through it all before, during the time Ameena had separated from the group. There are still some details, therefore, which presumably I know but no-one else does - I imagine at least some of those will come out IC at some point though :).
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by ian_scho »

I loved OhB's explanation to Haynuus as well.

I'm glad you've explained it more here, though. Also, the actual time travel thing doesn't impede the actual story telling, albeit the event order will be more complicated. Discovering the soul stone and checking out Deephold are not inherent to the time travel, I presume.

It'll be interesting to read Raixel's story in the end though!
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by oh_brother »

So Theron/Gholst is presumably related to the bad stuff that was going down. And Theron's sister only appeared in the second run, so her appearance could have been caused by, or an (indirect) cause of, the incident. Unless she was there and we just did not see them.

So clearer indeed. Good to have it localised in one location.
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by beowuuf »

Theron/Gholst is likely very related to the bad stuff. Theron's sister is very likely to have been missed by the more determined and more put upon first run versions of yourself. Since you've been a little out of your heads, and open...let's just say Theron's sister might well be an opportunity (together with the earlier time frame) that your previous first run selves never got!

I might update the plot thread too at some point, depending on what happens soon.
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by Ameena »

I think I probably know a bit more about what happened with Theron/Gholst than the rest of you (errm not counting Wuffy of course ;)), but not that much more. Likewise, I'm certain I know one or two things about the Grey Lord which the rest of you haven't come across yet - this has sort of been hinted at by Ameena herself IC, though.
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by beowuuf »

AS I think I hinted, I'll bring all of Ameena's stuff out of the darkness OOC by the start of September anyway, although I think IC the blocks never seem to connect correctly for any huge revelations. Then again, this might be for the best...

So as players you can see what happened to the poor murafu if you are curiopus and want an insight into what's happening, but obviously can leave it alone if you want to preserve the IC mystery for the charatcer.
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by ian_scho »

The problem with Ameena knowing the plot is getting coherent information out of her! She has such a different perspective of the world around her :)
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Re: Wibbly wobbly time-y wime-y

Post by Ameena »

Plus she can't remember half of what she's seen since she parted from the group. And there'd be the matter of asking her the right questions - possibly the problem with playing a murafu in play-by-post is that their conversations tend to take a different shape than those of other species - murafu conversations (that is, between themselves) tend to consist of someone asking a brief question about something, but then the answer has more questions asked about it, and so on, so it can take a while to get the full story but once it's out, it's out in about as much precise detail as possible. Though given the fairly fast speech rate of murafu when amongst their own kind, it actually doesn't take too long.

Example murafu conversation...
Murafu 1 - "Where have you been today?"
Murafu 2 - "I found a cave and explored it."
Murafu 3 - "Cave? Which cave? Where was it?"
Murafu 2 - "It was over by the river, by those big rocks not far from the waterfall."
Murafu 4 - "Ooh yes, I've been there...it smells strange there."
Murafu 1 - "What was there?"
Murafu 2 - "Well, I sniffed around, and I found strange paw prints."
Murafu 5 - "Ooh! Did they have claws? What did they smell like?"
2 - "No, no claws. They were a funny shape - sort of divided in two. And they didn't smell too predator-ish..."
3 - "So you went inside?"
2 - "Yes."
4 - "What was in there?"
2 - "Well, nothing, straight away..."
6 - "Didn't it smell like those predators we heard last night?"
2 - "No, no predator smells. It smelt like something had been scared, though."
1 - "Ooh...what was it?"
2 - "Well, I went further into the cave, and then I heard a noise."
7 - "What was it?"
2 - "Sort of a shuffling noise, like something moving."
1 - "Something big?"
2 - "Yes. Much bigger than us."
5 - "So you went closer?"
2 - "Yes...I went closer until I could see it."
1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (overlapping) - "Ooh! What was it? What did it look like?"
2 - "It was really big...it had as many legs as us, and a tail. And it was white, with black markings. It had a big head, with little horns and big eyes."
3 - "And big teeth?"
2 - "No...well, I suppose it did have big teeth, but they weren't sharp. I think she was female."
6 - "Did she see you?"
2 - "Yes - I went forward to get a closer sniff."
8 - "What did she do?"
2 - "She looked down at me and she spoke..."
1 - "Ooh! What did she say?"
2 - "Well, it sounded like...(deepens voice and makes a mooing sound)"
1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 - "Ooooh! And then what?"
2 - "Well, she seemed a bit scared, so I left her alone and came back here to tell you about it."
5 - "So she might still be there?"
2 - "Maybe."
7 - "Ooh! Maybe we can go and help her!"
5 - "That predator must have chased her in there last night..."
10 - "Yes! Let's go and see!"
(General agreement from all around, plus some more murafu who are still showing up)

All of the above conversation would have been held at a very high rate of both speech and excitement (both getting faster as it went on), with, as you may have noticed, more and more murafu joining in as they heard the conversation/saw a group of murafu talking together.
So, that's why it's a bit difficult to get details out of Ameena in a PBP game, 'cause she's used to talking fast and being constantly interrupted with more questions and stuff - murafu expect it and more or less look forward to it, because it's one of the many ways in which they socialise with each other, and one of the many things they miss when out exploring the world by themselves...though even the murafu who do this (like Ameena) aren't generally alone for very long - murafu get all over the place, and they seem to have this knack for finding each other, so it's not uncommon for one to travel alone all day and yet somehow manage to find another one in some sheltered spot and snuggle up to sleep for the night :).
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