TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

So what would the downside(s) have been to us reaching into the crack and grabbing what we could of our memories to level up to eight? And what would have happened had we taken the Path of Light or Reason? A fight with grak-graks and Blackskulls (both at once?) and a more immediate confrontation with Dolo?
Oh, and I hope Helm is properly better from those Screamer spores or whatever it was...it would be no fun for him if he got out of the dungeon only to keel oevr a few days later and leak plant bits out of his mouth :(.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

REachng in to the crack would have been trying to bridge the two timelines. The benefits would have been a) level 8, and b) infinite mana (keep casting your maximum spells). The bad sides would have been a) the intesifying of the earthquakes, etc as reality was effectively collapsing, and b) Lord Chaos able to screw with you guys first before the final confrontation.

The path of reason would have had you guys 'outthink' yourselves. You would have required light (the spell) and truth (a single declaration of truth from each of you) to continue. As you said, you would then have been required to fight the grak graks. This would probably have been the easiest tasks to complete, and the weffect would only be to not go anywhere, but of course forced you in to the toughest fight - a fight that might have found you while you were stuck reasoning in the dark!. Reason would have left you with an echo of prediction in the fight - the ability to anticipate an enemiy's reaction to your moves would have givne bonuses on insight, etc and also turned crit fails and successes for/against the players to player advantage.

The path of light would have tried to obliterate your sense of self too, but by overwhelming and blinding your whole senses so you were alone (the exact opposite of the truth path). You would need to reason (recollect those aroudn you, and also reason that you needed the darkness spell) and also once more a single declation of truth (to 'find' each other). Obviously, it would force you in to a confrontation with Dolo. And obviouslly, you would be alone with no senses if you failed to succeed with it, in which case Dolo would have had a much easier target. The path of light would have left you with an echo of illumination, allowing you to see the room as with truth (though in that case, still from each character POV) and also aided any perception.

The path of truth was the most dangerous in terms of the players actually being overwhelmed by the puzzle itself, and not a secondary enemy. The other two would leave you in a vulnerable state, not actually turn you mad. The benefits of course were the echoes of connection (knowing what was happenign with each other, etc) and also the fact that the path of truth gave you access to the connected pits. You decided not to take that advantage, but you could have bypassed the other two routes and made surprise attacks on the blackskulls above.

Little was I to know you'd break Dolo's mind and turn the grak-graks against the Blackskulls :D


And yeah, Helm will be cured one way or the other. The Grey Lord and Theron can heal people far more completely than Deephold and Westian. And even then, I think it was just a low hit points total that made me not allow the spores to fully cure when you attempted the heal.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by ian_scho »

@Ameena I didn't read your post until now but had not forgotten about the antidote that Haynuus was carrying! I've already handed it over.

So what were Ameena's magnetic stones for?

Also I didn't quite get the Falkor / Soorec relationship. From the encounter in Soorec's chambers they knew each other before or Soorec knew of his dark past?

Deephold entered with Helm, the treacherous mage and Umgold. So he had the same plan as Westian/Us I suppose. To investigate where The Grey Lord had gone and then oh-bugger-let's-get-him-back-again type thing.

The trolins right at the start were running from the Blackskulls, then? They did indicate they had a king and a small part of his plan.

Sleep dude!
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Well, originally the magnetic stones were found in Dolo's room. You might suspect a weak mage might wsih means to defeat a powerful, METALLIC BODNIED warrior if he wanted to. So the magnetic stones were somethign he could attach to a soldier and basically incapacitate them by binding their limbs together in their armour.

Funny, Ameena went to all the trouble of leaving Haynuus hanging to go look in the chest, found some non-violent means of defeating Garax, then went 'magic is scary' and got doinked trying to stab the human :p

So yeah, that's what they were for - narratively for why Dolo had then, but also as you might spot they were a reward for going a weird route.


Falkor and Soorec did not have a relationship before you guys met Brighteyes. What happened was that Gholst saw Falkor when Falkor temporarily went to the ethereal plane the first time Gholst appeared (waaaay back in the temple). So Gholst told Soorec - quickly - to go find Falkor, sicne Falkor had basically defied Gholst, and also just had piqued Gholst's interest. As you maybe saw, Gholst tried to instantly kill Falkor when Theron was around, because Gholst didn't want Theron to know that the warlord was detaching and walking as he pleased when Theron slept. And partially jsut to kill Falkor for defiance, if he couldn't speak to him before.

So yeah, that's why Soorec wanted Falkor - because Gholst did. With all the confusing cvhain of command, you can see why the soldiers sent you you were so confused as plaiable regarding Falkor's importance.

When Brighteyes met the group personally, he didn't really know why Gholst wanted Flakor either. Meanwhile, Money decided to have Falkor use mental messages to the gnome, in order to have Soorec show his hand and betray the group. It was quite a good idea, except of courrse it was entrapment, and Falkor was saying 'I want to betray the group for Seeroc, I'm in league with Seeroc too' when Seeroc/Soorec was standing right there. Anyway, that was why there might have seemed to have been some familiarity between Soorec and Falkor. Partially Soorec knew of the halfling from Gholst, partially he had been mentally contacted to start with, and then the rest was Soorec's faulty assumptions based on what Falkor had said.

Funny, Money had Falkor share the plan with Westian right before the big shock fight and reveal, and both money and OB still trusted Brighteyes, even though they knew he was duplicitous somehow :D


Deephold had the original mission to find out wh ythe soul stone no longer worked. Deephold and Umgold met up with Fex and Helm (it should have ben Fex and Falkor, but I said Falkor would have distrusted Fex). Westian's mission in the alternate timeline two weeks later would be the same (with the addition of find Deephold). Technically, this time around, Westian had no mission as he was still in the church during this second run.


My non-canon idea for the creatures in Lord Chaos's dungeon in DM were that some were real, some were twisted forms of others, and some were pure magical conjurations. My thought was that in DM, the top Trolins were magical creations, copies of the Trolin King. With the Grey Lord gone and the soul stone shattered,. those magical creations - that the Grey Lord would not dispel, for reason I will try to explain IC next post - started to disappate. Lord Chaos had fashioned themin mockery of King Grrl, having captured the Trolin King. Thus, the magical creation's last thoughts were of the king being captured - it was the King's personality at the time echoing in their fading minds. So really, they were sadly trying to free themselves - in a way - or to help a Kign that not only was free, but actively hated them and wanted them dead.

The Blackskulls were dominating the dungeon, but were mostly hunting the fake Trolins as part of a deal with the King. Afetr all, those Trolisn were a mockery of his form, but why waste Trolin lives and appear weak killing them, his own embarrassment, when he could bargain for the blackskulls to do it.


Anyway, eyes hurting, so I think I will sleep after all :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Sorry, did mean to finsh the post early, but Cyprus preparation seems to have taken my tiem today, so I am back to eyes hurting and it being way too late! Hope the update makes sense, and ties up anything needing tied up.

As said before, perhaps a final reaction post if you like, and then at some point over the next week or two you guys can converse OOC if you like, and then each of you individually can write your own epilogue. I think you know betetr than I where your character will end up, and which NPCs they may well take with them or latch on to :)
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Quickly tidied up the final update post this mornign, probably introducing new errors and missing old ones :p
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Just made my own final post...Ameena basically ensuring she fulfills her promise to Farel bu making sure Ardur gets wherever it was he was supposed to go (and bringing Farel's armour too, since I seem to recall he asked that be brought back...armour or sword or both, can't remember now - she must have got Ardur to carry it anyway because there's no way she'd manage it herself ;)), and saying a fond and affectionate goodbye to those who part ways after leaving the dungeon. After she's done with Ardur she'll just bugger off to the first murafu place she can find and get her fix of proper social contact that she's been missing all this time - if anyone else will have chosen to go with her they'd have been welcome ;).
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Awwwwwwwwwww.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

And lol, a great end to Haynuus, he ended up screamer farming in Anaias! And the business went ok afetr a shaky start. Won;t quote the funniest lines, but I did laugh out loud a few times, as I've come to expect from your Haynuus posts!

*sniff*

It's all ending!
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

And now an epic Westian ending! Cool he ended up connected to Anaias in the end too, aswell as journeying around. Without, you know, ever quite losing his arrogance. I liked that! :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Oh, I forgot to say...or re-iterate...please feel free to ask any questions regarding plot, etc now it's all supposidly over and explained.


And feel free to let me know anything you really enjoyed or were put off by storywise/mechanics wise/dungeon mastering wise, PbP wise, etc. Just in case I host another game, it's nice to know for you lot specifically! And feedback in general is always cool :)


Once more, you were great players that invested in your characters and the story, and always had some wacky plans or reactions to throw in to the mix. it's been fun!
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

I can't say I had any particular complaints or anything about how the game was handled. I personally would never go near a time-travel plot (I mean, I'd never write my own) because of the masses of potential fuck-ups that lurk there, but even though this one was confusing it worked out alright in the end and my character didn't have the mental capacity to understand it anyway, so that's alright ;). If you host another game I'll make a character who's a little more morally-ambiguous ;).
It's a shame that not everyone was able to stick around for the full duration of the game but well, sometimes RL things just come up.
Now did I have any other questions...hmm, what happened to Darke? Or Darc, or however it was spelt. And Small-Small? And the baby oitu thingy and its mum? And those baby Rock Monsters that got born? Did they just die straight away 'cause their mum was dying or something? Did all the Blackskulls get their arses kicked by the grak-graks in that end battle down the Path of Reason? Well, and trolls I suppose, wherever that fight happened. And what happened to the two lurking-at-the-back-of-the-room Blackskulls in the final fight? Did they get ganked by someone? And did Deephold end up finishing off those Mummies? Or did Aurek help him, or something? I can't really remember. Did any other Blackskulls end up switching sides like Passin did? What happened to him in the end, anyway? Or was that explained in the last post...hmm I can't remember, lol.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

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Darke, hmm, did I not have his head greet you at some point when you first investigated the main hall? Or was that a little beat I left out out of forgetfulness/taste? He was in the main hall along with all the 'elite' blackskulls you met at the front door, but he and the other named guy (grr, started with an F I think) were killed when Dolo's grak-graks (pretending to be Soorec's grak-graks) went mad when Dolo went mad. That was the scene you had just interrupted, and why the hall was on alert right then. And why there were only two ordinary unnamed blackskulls in the hall, instead ofthe four that should have met up with Drommal.

Small-small was the one leading the attack of the pain rats, and she survived. You can assume that if Ameena revists Anaias to see Westian/Haynuus, she will find that the pain rats are a little bit easier to deal with, espcailly sicne you will match the primative version of a god that small-small started to instill in these creatures. Since I think Falkor'/money's actions happened 'off camera', Falkor tried to calm a Giant Scorpion at one point, realising they were twisted by Chaos and in metnal anquish, not just evil. So that one slightly more docile scorpion is what grabbed the Grey Lord's attention - together with Ameena's affect on small-small - and made him think there was hope in creating a balance with the creatures of chaos left in the dungeon.

The baby Oitu and the mother oitu will have been fine. If that poor mother was the one Haynuus ended up capturing, I'm sure Ameena could have subtly slipped the chain off and used some non-verbal commuication and good will to get that Oitu to stay put. Thoguh it's probably another one :D And the baby rock monsters will have been born. The Grey Lord did say that he could see the path of you guys through your actions. So that would include feelign the presence of gthe new life from nothing more than Chaos's magical summonation. He will have personally ensured they were born with real rock creatures, and one more it would have been a way to start some form of understandign with those creatures he used to fear were jsut twisted remnants of Chaos's actions.

Yeah, all the blackskulls would have been killed in the path of reason - sadly, that included Brohur beng killed too. Still, he was a bully that would have taken the souls on in a heartbeat if Sergeant Arbrut had ever offered him the chance. An unpleasant man, and you guys don't need to feel guilty about his death unless you wanna.

The Trolin battle was happening elsewhere. The Trolins were fighting on the level where Dolo and Soore'cs lairs were, away from where the secret tunnel had beem. But yes, between the grak-grak fighting the guards outside the main hall, and the Trolins killign the bulk of the blackskulls, and the level 9/10 forces being killed by the pain rats and wandering in to Purple worms (yes, I put purple worms in level 10, just for the fun of it to mess with your guys) then that's the blackskulls wiped out.

Umm, the two blackskulls, I'd need to check the updates. I think Petal ganked one, Passin ganked one? They both rushed forwards...no, wait, jsut checked the maps. Yeah, Theron was forced to kill one due to the stuff that was happening (pertrification) and the other was the one that fully rushed forwards to be ganked by Passin and Petal.

Deephold was knocked down by the final mummy, it was - off camera, I think, or no, I think it was actually mentioned - that Petal and Falkor and Helm came to the rescue, just when Deephold looked dead. Aurek killed the first but then moed to help you guys in the centre, since Deephold indicated she should be ok. Which he was :D

Passin was the only one who swicthed sides. The basic footsoldiers might have, but more in fear at the 'real' blackskulls dying. Instead, they were wiped out by combats and grak-graks. None of the 'real' ones would ever have turned. After all, they were evil enough to not only actively take on the souls of all those they had killed, but were then happy to their power by killing more people. So yeah, basically the group picked the right blackskull wannabee with a backstory to try and turn. Odd how that works, isn't it? What were the odds :D

Since no-one claimed Ardur in the end, and Westian and Haynuus kinda went off of the Order of Larethian (whcih was cool, you guys both chose the mountain) then I imagine Passin would have acted as a guardian of sorts to get the boy back to Varette/Banville (it was half suggested, but Passin's fate was left up in the air at the last post). Obviously, one path is for Passin to try and atone for his actions by joining the region, with the Grey Lord's recommendation to Zed. Aurek might (hopefully) be able to post? If so, perhaps Aurek persuades Passin to work with him, whatever Aurek ends up doing. That one I will leave up in the air for now, but those are the two futures I can see. Ardur won't become a knight, but I can imagine him becoming more like a Gaius in a way, like some form of scholar but advisor or friend to a knight.


Whenw, such a small paragraph, but so many questions :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Farel's spirit asked Ameena to make sure Ardur was safe and taken to some place/person along with, I think, Farel's armour and/or sword - Ameena agreed to that and I mentioned somewhere in her epilogue that it will have been the first thing she concentrated on doing after getting out of the dungeon. Anyone who was vaguely friendly to Ameena will have been welcome to join her in meeting fellow murafu, so Ardur and Passin are by no means exempt from this offer ;). Ameena will also have stopped by to visit Mount Anaias at least a few more times during the course of her life - assuming she lived out a normal murafu lifespan, she will have just about managed to hit fifty years, give or take a few.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Indeedy, so if Passin stays with Aurek, Ameena would still see Ardur safe to his parents and stuff :) And yup, Farel's armour and weapon would have made it back to probably Ardur's family (since they had been close friends with Farel) and become heirlooms of a wrthy family.

Helm would have probably stayed around the Viborg area, I imagine, especially with Haynuus around. Helm would have accompanied Ameena with Ardur though. Whether he would then have returned to Viborg, or accompanied Ameena for a while longer, I can leave up to you :)
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by ian_scho »

Not sure how to recommend any improvements Beo! Will think about it though :)
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

More screamer slices and drunsticks? :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Since Farel specifically asked Ameena to help Ardur, she will have done what he asked as best she could, so long as the people she took him to didn't try to squish her or anything ;). If Helm wanted to stay with Ameena, she will most certainly not have said no ;). After ensuring Ardur's safe arrival at wherever Farel had asked for him to be taken, she will have headed out to find some murafu so she could get a bit of RnR and stuff - if Helm wanted to stay with her, she will never have told him to sod off so basically if he ended up accompanying her for the rest of her life that would be fine by her, lol.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by oh_brother »

I was going to have Passin come back to the monastery (not necessarily as a cleric or paladin) to earn forgiveness. Also I had been planning to invite Falkor back to teach magic, but then I realised that Westian would not just settle back into his old life. Also money has not been around so I didn’t want to write his epilogue!

As for the game I really enjoyed it. You clearly put a lot of effort into it! Sometimes games feel a bit arbitrary, and you are very aware that you are playing against a DM, instead of being in character. That did not happen here, it did not feel like the world was changing with your whims. Even though I am sure you must have made some stuff up on the spot it never felt that way. I never felt that the immersion was broken, and that allowed me to take my character more seriously (not just a bunch of stats to beat people with). The story was very good, and fitted nicely into the DM world without being just a re-run of DM/CSB.

I think if we ran another DM-DnD game we should revisit the spells now that we have had a couple of playtesters, just to try to make sure everything is balanced. Or maybe that is just because spell casters are uber-powerful in DnD – clerics and especially wizards are (I think) easily the most powerful characters in DnD, but definitely not in DM. But anyway it wasn’t vital that everything was perfectly balanced in this game as we were not a bunch of rules lawyers, and we were all (players and DM) role-playing rather than roll-playing.

PbP is a good medium. It means you can have a deep game without having to have an all-night session, you just post when you can. Of course the downside (if you want to call it that) is that it takes longer to do some things – reaching a consensus between a number of players takes a lot of posts.

So all-in-all I really enjoyed it, and would definitely go again at some point in the future! :D Maybe Raixel reappears at some point and runs her game.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by oh_brother »

And I forgot to mention: there is no way I would have played every free day for TWO YEARS unless I really, really, really enjoyed the game! :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Thanks OB :D I'm glad you couldn't see times when you were going towards pre-determined set pieces, and encountering things that were constructing aorund your heads :) I think it was always a mixture, I always had an idea what was happening around you, and NPCs always had a through line of the players didn';t alter their plans, but I always wanted to be sure that player actions had an impact, and if thart meant you wandered over to an area that wasn't quite sketeched in yet, or wanted to shatter a carefully constructed set piece, all the better!

For example - Dolo should have been alive and well in the final room, as should Soorec :D You were supposed to be walking in to a calm meeting of everyone being all evil and standoffish and explainign the plot as evil guys do when they gather together at an ending, not, you know, being at the epicentre of everything going completely crazy with them at each others throats or dead :D


I agree the magic system is tough, D&D is all about the magic as a creative outlet (with many other classes getting spells) while DM is very much about simple utility and combat spells. Definitely figuring out some more flexibility, and balancing its power, without making it un-DM would be something I'd like to have tried.


Anyway, we shall see if Raixel can return for hosting a new game, and who knows how bored I have of my evenings back :D
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Well, hopefully Raixel will eventually come back and start running her game once we all get the final bits of character gen done (I know I had one or two things still left to sort out on mine, besides keeping her a secret till she appeared in-game ;)). If not, and you want to run another one, Wuffy, then that will be cool, I'm sure ;). Would you be using the same system as before? I mean, the same rules system of DnD 3.5-crossover-with-4th-sort-of-thing? Because that seemed to work pretty well - wasn't as complicated-looking as 3.5 anyway ;). Though yeah, maybe for casters the magic system is complicated? Having never tried a caster class in that system (always played a Rogue in NWN and backstabbed the fuck out of everything while my henchman tanked :twisted:) I have no idea ;).
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Aww, sad dead forum :(

I'm back, I might do a few final behind the scenes comments for your interest at some point soon.
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Hey wb Wuffy, how was it in Cyprus?
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Gambit37 »

Welcome back Fuzzface. Hope you had a nice trip?

I think there should be some kind of big forum wide announcement to celebrate completion of the game! :-)
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

Thanks!

For a forum wide announcement, I think those who were interested in the game probably asked every so often, and so will pick up on the mentions, while those who

I might put something in my sig file for a while, more to honour the cool players. Might start doing that tonight :)


As to cyprus, yeah, manages to get around ok, find my place, and meet up with the people I was going across to meet up with. REally great weather except for the day of the wedding (turned cloudy, a coupel of drops of rain during the ceremony, then went back to sun for the pictuyres, so all good in the end!)

Was based in Paphos, so was great to wander around some of the outlying bits, and also walk around Paphos itself and see the coast and the archealogical sites. The mozaics, the tomb of the 'kings', and all the bits on the edge that maybe people don't usually check out.

Getting back was fine right up until HEathrow, where delays and queues meant I gambled on trains back to basingstoke since I had a 2 1/2 hour wait for the next coach, and ended up 40 quid out of pocket to be home 30 minutes earlier :( Ah well!
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oh_brother
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by oh_brother »

Welcome back! Gald you enjoyed the trip!
beowuuf wrote:the tomb of the 'kings'
Was one of them Filius, explorer of combinations?
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beowuuf
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by beowuuf »

lol, it might have been once, but they left it in the state that players usually do - everything open and all the goodies gone!
Was unable to (permenantly) kill off ian_scho (Haynuus), Ameena, oh_brother (Westian), money (Falkor), raixel (Petal) and Lord_Bones (Aurek) in the DM D&D game Time's Champions!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THOSE WHO MADE THE GAME WHAT IT WAS - GREAT!
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Ameena
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by Ameena »

Lol to your sig - but maybe you should add in the word "permanently" as the fourth word ;).
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ian_scho
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Re: TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

Post by ian_scho »

Hey, glad you enjoyed the trip Beo :)
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