Character creation!

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Ameena » 18-Apr-12 20:33

Ahh, ECL, that's the one I was thinking of! I suppose it doesn't really matter anyway - it's more a thing for GMs really, isn't it?
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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 18-Apr-12 20:37

Yeha, it's a numbers balancing thing, but it does mean you get less of your cool class shinies like sneak attack dice compared to everyone else. Still, your race shinies should make up for it.

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 18-Apr-12 21:35

beowuuf wrote:So drop him down to level 3 but give him the lizardman stuff he doens't already have?
Yeah, except for the natural attacks, and the "2 levels of humanoid" (see above rant about "why on earth do they *always* have to add the monster HD in, it totally makes the LA adjustment stupidly high for 90% of monsters that wouldnt have such a high LA if they didnt do that!"). Actually, come to think of it, those stupid 2 levels are really the only thing making it have an LA at all.

I think the +5 AC bonus might come in handy though! If you don't think that'd be enough to help him out, theres other things we can add, though. Like maybe a few extra HP or something.

On a completely unrelated side note, I noticed I'm now a Pal Master. Poo. I like Ee master better, cuz it made me think of someone going Eeeeee! really high pitched. Which amuses me greatly. I wanted my title to be Eeeeee! Master. That'd be awesome!

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 18-Apr-12 21:52

Lol, in that case a few months in to your game, check your post count again. I'm presuming it will be above the 1050 for Archmaster, and then you cna have a shiny rank as you desire :D Eeeeeeeeee! Master or even Eeeeee! (Dungeon) master :)

I'll do the adjustments and see how Ssssil looks soon, and PM them to you for your perusal

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Re: Character creation!

Post by oh_brother » 19-Apr-12 13:40

Level 3 sounds great. I have done up my char sheet to reflect that. Some questions:

(1) House rules before (and what I based current hit points on) are maximum for level 1 (so 10 for a fighter), and min 8 for each level thereafter. Is this still the case?
(2) I think I have 5 feats: level 1, level 3, being human and 2 fighter bonus feats.
(3) I have 12 skill points. I started making these out for the skills on the d20 rules website, but then remembered about house rules...just want to confirm we are using condensed skills before I pick them.
(4) What do we get for starting equipment?

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 19-Apr-12 17:13

The max hp at first level is a D&D normal rule. The minimum for later levels was my house rule to ape DM and let me throwe nastier critters at you/ Otherwise the rogues and mages might have been even wimpier :p So I wouldn't take it as read. Maybe try out the split skills and see if you still get a good set of bonuses you like?


And as for fighters feats, yes indeed - 'fills the hand' as a D&D PSA once said :D

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 19-Apr-12 17:53

I'm still extremely wavering on the co+ndensed skills, honestly. Ive started a discussion in the rules thread about my thoughts on this.

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 19-Apr-12 19:07

Ok, starting equipment will be based on background, similar to DM, instead of just handing out a random gp amount and outfitting yourself. For instance, OB, Artaxes, as a fighter (if we're going with something similar to the background we discussed) can pick one non magical (read plain, common, steel) weapon(im assuming the weapon he focuses in, but keep it normal), studded or plain leather armor, one shortbow and 20 plain arrows, one set of his unit's fatigues, and a pouch of 1d10 gold as his latest pay. Basically stuff he would have as a mercenary that was issued to his unit.

Ameena, based on her char's background wouldn't have as much, but would have a scavenged weapon, a set of ragged clothing, (or hide armor, if you can come up with where she found it), and 2d20 copper coins she scrounged up.

Thiy would have her 2 sais, her monk robes (whether or not they would be obviously of the order she just left or not is up to you, Ian), 10 shurikens and 2d6g she ripped off from the fat pig when she fled.

I hope LB gets on, so we can discuss his char's background.

In addition everyone gets 15g to spend on non weapon/armor items such as bedrolls, rations, ect. (btw, a plain canvas tent is 5 gp, the 10gp one in the PHB is a thick waterproofed one). This 15g represents stuff you have aquired pre campaign and any left over $ disappears if not spent. You can also spend any of your starting pay on stuff too if you want. The only thing you can't buy is magic items/potions/flasks ect.

Sssil starts with what he has now. Even though he has a couple little magic items, compared to the rest of the group, I don't see thi sbeing a problem as I'm sure it will equal out very shortly.

If you want something from a published source and I dont have it, (which really isnt likely. Ive got an insane DnD collection), post the item, stats, cost and desc on here.

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Re: Character creation!

Post by ian_scho » 19-Apr-12 20:02

Level 3 is great. More toys to play with :)

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 20-Apr-12 03:02

Ya. I usually start all my campaigns at 3. It gives plenty of room for improvement and lets your characters grow, but you wont get killed by one lucky roll from a goblin. Is everyone cool with the starting gear?

If you think your char should have something I didnt list, let me know. I know its not balanced, but I wanted to do something like DM. Some chars get like a full set of armor, some a weapon, some nothing. If you guys don't like this, we can do it the "give a random amount of gold and buy stuff" like in the PHB, but considering most of you guys' backgrounds that really doent make sense

Um, oh. Just a warning, magic items might be priced differently than what you'd expect. I don't think it matters much right now, but just thought i'd let you know. I tend to kinda run my own economy, cuz as I said before, I run a low-permanent magic item campaign. Like at 5th lev, one of my long-running campaign's best weapons in the whole group was a falchion +1 that did an extra 1d6 cold damage per hit. Conversly, I love wonderous and charged items. So don't be surpised if lots of weird objects that mimic spells and weapon oils that cause effects like magical +es and burning show up, but a +1 longsword is something to be in awe of. I also think this fits iwth DM a lot better too. And I dont follow the whole "amount of gp worth of magic items per lev a char should have" thingy in the DMG either. One of the things I dont like about 3(.5) is how they made it structured per lev how much magic a char should have. If you follow their guidelines, it gets so its like "ho-hum, another sword +1. Im just gonna sell it for the 2,000(!) gp" by the time your like 6th lev. This also affects monster CR, but Ive worked it out over the years/ So don't go by the books about how much a magic items worth, k?

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 20-Apr-12 07:22

I have no problem with that. The reason the group managed to hold their own...ish...against level 12 and level 15 opponents in my game was because those opponents didn't have their equivalent magical items boosting combat rolls and AC. So your opponents had hp to soak up punishment and the bonues to do some crazy combat manoeuvres, yet were still manageable to hit and defeat. And hopefully you guys felt you could also take combat penalties to attempt stuff yourself. And it still made lower level mooks a credible threat.

Even in a normal D&D game, I hate the automatic magic items tied to advancement axis. As a DM... as a player, I liked for example Ameena giving me my magical shinies I was due :p Though she handled it better even then, where it was existing equipment that got enchantments, in line with the personality of the characters, so you could still argue part of the magic was just augmenting the character's own skill anyway. :D

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Ameena » 20-Apr-12 19:43

Ahh, we need to get on with our game at some point, when we both actually have time ;). I think the reason I did it that way was kind of because, say, I wanted Mort to have a new weapon but because of the fact that his old one was an heirloom or ancestral thing or whatever it was (don't remember exactly but I know it was of sentimental value to him and stuff), I figured it'd be easier to just bung an enchantment on it. That and you weren't anywhere that would have uber magical gear just lying around ;). I just go with the narrative and think "Hmm, I think I'll do this next", and see where the story goes. I'm not hugely into all the mechanics and "You must have this thing at this level" and stuff. I'd rather just take part in telling a good story and let everyone have fun :).
Plus, if enemies have uber gear, it's no fun when you can't hit them because their resists are so high, meanwhile they clobber you for masses of damage or mess you up completely with status effects because they have loads of special attacks or whatever that generally balls up your day.
I'm not really that bothered about loot, generally - it's nice to have a cool wep with a funky attack that does stuff, but I could play through a whole game and get my thrills out of just...well, playing it. Rewards can come in other shapes besides physical items your characters can use, after all. Coming up with a cool idea and the GM liking it and letting something good come of it even if you get a low roll is good, for example, as it rewards the coming-up-with-a-good-idea. In some games my dice hate me and so I roll low pretty consistently so rarely achieve anything of note, which is frustrating, especially when the thing I keep failing at is supposed to be my character's specialty.
I don't think inventory is gonna be an issue for my char in this game, anyway :D.
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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 20-Apr-12 19:53

Yes we do! Any chance of Ja'ph joining us? Shiraka always seemed to be very much your character, but I can imagine our wonderful rague/roger might be fun to jump in to. And a second charcter to make a party of five, invulnerable to any tanking goblin kings and biting snakes! Mortaar can't afford to get ganked again! :( His dignity won't allow it! :p


I like actions - good or bad - having consequences, and that dice rolls are sometimes 'thigns go your way versus things go my way' when DMing. So a low roll with a good idea isn't necessarily a fail,it just lets me add an evil consequence or exatra niggle to the mix. Like you have a cool way to distract/disable an opponent to get him away from somewhere, I might make a fail having him target you unharmed...but that still means your cool idea pulled the guy away. I call it the 'Ameena the murafu gets booted in the face by an iron boot for a poor Diplomacy roll, yet still managed to let Westian heal Falkor' method of DMing :D

Only when you have very imaginative players do you then want to mitigate ideas with dice rools more. We're not writing a story, and part of the fun of the game is unexpected stuff can come up all the time, and articifically we generate the success and failure that makes any good narrative worth investing in. I think as long as player's idea meant something, a player can put up with it not always goign their way, and sometimes it going very badly. At least, that's what I hope. When I play, of course, I hate bad rolls as much as the next person and stomp my feet with a pouty face *pout*

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 20-Apr-12 20:47

Ok, I just realised a horrible, disgusting, unimagineable truth regarding reducing my character to level 3...



I'D LOSE HISSSSSA! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Stupid ranger animal companion 4th level sussin' russin' :(

Can Hissssa be a little bit skittish around the rest of the group, and so only become a viable animal companion when Ssssil hits level 4, but until then is still around as a cute character that gives me no mechanical advantage whatsooever? :D

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 20-Apr-12 21:41

I find it really funny when a player come up with an imaginative idea like smoking the turtle out (not like that, anyone who thought what I did when I re-read that line!) of its hole and jumping on it, then its all super creative and im like yeah go for it, even though technically the rules I wrote for the smoker wont do that cuz its too small, but I cant pass it up cuz its a great idea. And then you totally blow the jump and collapse the rotten log ONTO the (now very annoyed) turtle's ass, along with you and god know how many grubs and creepy crawlies.

But hey, then suddenly you find a skeleton later cuz of a nat 20. That just happens to be dug up when the turtle churned the muck to free its legs after you landed on its ass instead of front.

That was great fun!

But yeah, harshly punishing a bad roll on a good idea kinda sucks. Its more fun if everyones laughing at the same time theyre going "Oh shit! What just happened!?". Although a good idea wont save you from a bad roll, because otherwise we're all just writing a shared story instead of playing a game. But I dont arbitrarily punish cuz of the dice. There will *never* be a situation creative thinking wont get you out of, no matter how bleak it may seem. I dont do deathtrap rolls(one bad roll and you die) and "Oh you didnt solve this problem exactly the way I wanted you to. Too bad." type things. Although I also dont have any prob with killing players, so dont expect me to save you if you enter combat with 2 hp and then get nailed.

But by the same token, I dont like those early D&D style rolls where say you didnt find the trap, so you fall in a pit and take 6d6 damage at 2nd lev, or miss a saving throw v posion and die instantly. Those were from when the game was less role playing and more CRPG style "get through the dungeon and kill the bad guy/find the treasure ect" You might find 10 orcs living in a sealed tomb that no one has entered in a generation, with a werebear at the tomb's center that gives you a magic scroll and the kings sword to slay the lich that has it's lair in the next room. What did the orcs eat? Who cares! Why is there werebear in a tomb guarding the kings treasure, and it didnt fight the orcs or get killed by the lich? Doesnt matter!
Characters were there to fight monsters, and around the campfire talk might be: priest's player "I pray to my god for spells" halfling: "I talk about the inn in my village and smoke my pipe." fighter: "I care for my gear" ect. That was the way the game was before the focus in 2nd ed on actual roleplaying /world building (I always assumed it was cuz CRPGs filled the kick in the door and get the treasure type game), and I dont really think one shot kill rolls have any place in today's d&d, cuz characters are usually much more developed and invested in.

(vaguely related rant)
And frankly, Ive played with(and kicked out of my game) people who's focus was on min-maxing stats to get the best advantage (trading in animal companions for better ones at higher level, killing non-hostile NPCs for their treasure ect). In their defense they were new players, I dont think they really had many social skills or understood the point of the game, and 3rd's books are written more mechanics based. The complete Ranger's guide, which I picked up for a couple bucks and thought was gonna be like the 2nd edition class/race handbooks, *actually is* just a giant min-maxing guide, to get the best mechanical advantage regardless of whether it fits and *no* roleplaying tips whatsoever. It has advice for where to put ability scores, skill points, and when to trade out animal companions for others.(which I generally don't allow in my game. Its not like I tell my cat "oh, i just got a promotion at work, so I'm gunna trade you in for something more exotic than a 12yr old mixed breed housecat.") I think it was cuz HotC(Hasbro of the Coast, what my group refers to WotC as since that got bought out by Hasbro and f^%$ed up D&D. You know theyre already workin on 5th ed? 4th has only been out for 3 1/2yrs, wtf.)'s focus was on Magic the card game, so really didnt realize that D&D *isnt* just the mechanics.

But anyway, I know this group isn't like that, so I dont think low rolls matter that much. They wont kill you.
(/kinda related rant)

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Lord_BoNes » 21-Apr-12 15:36

That was a decent rant there Raixel, hehehe :P
Anyhows, I vote for keeping the skills split (except for certain things like search/spot).

And as for animal companions, personally I'd vote for possibly gaining an extra companion or two, with no limit on how many companions you can have at once (so long as they all get fed, etc... and if they die then that's it, short of a cleric resurrecting them or some such).

Now, Raixel, what do you wish to discuss about my character?
 
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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 21-Apr-12 18:33

Alright, I posted it on the previous page last year, but I'm gonna repost it here for your convienience. Basically what it comes down to is I cant give you all the powers of the weretiger. Ive tried a bunch of different ways and I just cant get it right.

So heres a list of the main abilities. Which ones would you want to have the most? I didnt want to just make something and say "Ok, you have this, but not this" without your permission.

1. Hybrid form
2. Animal Form
3. Ability bonus
4. Natural AC bonus
5. DR/silver
6. Lycathropic Empathy
7. Scent

Basically the plan I have so far is to not add thr animal HD/skills/feats/ect together with the base (Im assuming human) and then add some of the special qualities. You think that'll work?

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Re: Character creation!

Post by ian_scho » 21-Apr-12 19:15

I've added to my char sheet (at the bottom) stuff for level 3. If everything is ok, I'll copy it up. Hopefully you won't agree with my poor HP rolls :)

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Ameena » 21-Apr-12 20:34

Lol Wuffy, shows what happened with my ideas in the game if you think that Shiraka was the one I planned to play with all along ;). Actually Mirrip had been that one - it was when I found we needed a Leader class (so the group actually had a healer) that I came up with Shiraka. It just happened that a good place to bring her into the game was right at the beginning, the way it happened.
Me and Ja'Ph' were talking about DnD today, in fact, and I lent him my USB with the Char Builder on so he can install it and have a look at home. But yeah...maybe he'd like to play. I haven't suggested it yet. I dunno when we'd get round to doing so anyway, lol. Weekdays we're at work...well, he is. Mondays and Thursdays I'm off but I have club on Thursday evenings. Then weekends we normally go out (and nom food somewhere :D) and then met up online after he's gone home and we've had dinner etc and logged on our computers. I've been online now for about half an hour (it's currently 9:30pm) and I expect he'll show up at some point soon.
But maybe in the future it won't be necessary for either of us to spend train fare to see each other, or to actually go anywhere or log into Skype in order to chat, so maybe at that point, gaming together will be somewhat easier ;). But anyway, if we play DnD I think I know what race he's gonna decide on - won't say anything in here in case it ends up happening and you get to meet his char in-game ;).
On the subject of good/bad rolls and stuff, I think what frustrates me more is when I repeatedly roll badly and so don't really achieve anything because I don't get to do what I want due to the dice letting me down over and over again - once or twice, fine, it happens. but multiple times, arrrgh it annoys me, lol. But like I said, that only really seems to happen with d100 games (the four Warhammer 40k ones, arrgh). My d20 generally likes me and rolls at least average, if not high, though sometimes I do botch it ;).
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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 21-Apr-12 21:29

Heh, I see, the way to enure you play a reserved, silent character like Dusk Rat is to ensure you have a full social life :p


Yeah, if you want to see the wonderful world of good and bad dice rolls, look no further than Ssssil's mnisadventures. Between low rolls and low modifiers, his life is...interesting... As long asd the story always moves forwards, it's all good, right?

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 21-Apr-12 21:33

Oh, to the animal companion point, they should be companions...so the bond feels right being only with one of them. I don't see Ssssil dropping Hissssa unless something unpleasant happens :(

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Ameena » 21-Apr-12 21:36

Lol, the reason I play a reserved, (practically) silent character like Dusk Rat is because I know sod all about the system and in this game it's worse than usual becuase canon characters and stuff are actually being included so I don't know what's even being discussed in the OOC half the time ;).
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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 21-Apr-12 21:40

Well at the moment fluffy faced stuffed frogs :)

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Lord_BoNes » 22-Apr-12 04:13

beowuuf wrote:Well at the moment fluffy faced stuffed frogs :)
That seems like an interesting convo to be having :P
 
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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 22-Apr-12 08:45

Whoa. I just now saw the "id lose hissa" bit. Don't know how I missed that. The answer. No. No you wouldn't lose him. Just take him early. We've spent way too much time developing him to drop him over mechanics. Since youre just gonna end up with him and your stats are low anyway, I don't see that he'd disbalance anything.

God. I sound like the goddamn Grey Lord always going off about balance. :roll:

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Re: Character creation!

Post by beowuuf » 22-Apr-12 09:01

Lol, I'm playing a character elsewhere who does the same thing, don't worry. He's even managed to get to the Zen state of saying how balance isn't always balanced. Weeeeeeee


I guessed I wouldn't lose Hissssa (he is just too cool of a character(, just wasn't sure abotu the mechanical properties. I nudged him down to his stats to a 4th level ranger state anyway, he can do stuff early too :)

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Re: Character creation!

Post by ian_scho » 22-Apr-12 19:44

no reason why all of the party have to be of the same level, btw.

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Re: Character creation!

Post by Ameena » 22-Apr-12 20:01

Balance, surely? So that no-one's particularly overpowered or underpowered compared to everyone else? I suppose it may depend on what we have in the group. I prefer to find stuff out narratively so I don't intend to look at anyone's character sheet to find out what we have (though I know Wuffy's playing a lizardman and LB is a lycanthrope). I'll wait for narrative descriptions in intro posts - it's more fun for me that way :).
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Re: Character creation!

Post by oh_brother » 23-Apr-12 16:24

Now properly finished my character sheet. Ready whenever. I went for the non-condensed skills, because that is how it seemed things were leaning in the rules discussion.

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Re: Character creation!

Post by raixel » 23-Apr-12 19:56

Yeah, non condensed. Are we all pretty much ready to go? Theres a post a while back in this thread about starting gear. Is everyone cool with that? Any final questions? Ameena, I'll respond to your email ASAP, just been stupidly busy this weekend. But from what Ive seen, everyone looks good.

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