DMT 2 in progress

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beowuuf
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by beowuuf »

Seconded
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Rasmus
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

Thank you guys!
I don't know what "Seconded" means, but I guess it is some sort of agree, hehe :)

Just so everybody knows, the more persons a get to try the game in the early stages the easier I can fix the things that doesn't seems right. This was the problem I had with DMT 1, I released it to late and then when the bugs came along it was to hard to fix them.. It is always healthy for the game to get alot of critisism, It would help me alot along the way.
(But ofcourse, pointing out good things can also give me more motivation to continue ;))
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Jan
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Jan »

Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary:

second (verb) /ˈsek.ənd/: "to make a formal statement of support for a suggestion made by someone else during a meeting so that there can be a discussion or vote" 8)
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

Hehe, thank you Jan! Feels good to know that you are around when I am feeling ignorant :D
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Jan »

At your service! *bows*
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

DMT 2 v0.05 are now avalible for download!
Besides the orignal level I have also added an alternative route with riddles only manageble with DMT mechanics. See if you can solve them ;)

I have also uploaded a video at http://dmtribute.webs.com/apps/videos/v ... mt-2-v0-05
And the beta is downloadable at http://dmtribute.webs.com/dmt2.htm

I would greatly appreciate any comments :)
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Bit
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

I get a hardly acceptable framerate with 640*480, but I can test.
Running around, I came to one really important question. Maybe I missed a post where that was already discussed, but - what to do with the other characters, if you come to a zone where pits are closing and opening. One of the following characters will surely be in the situation, that a pit opens under his feet - will he levitate then (if the main character is on safe ground)?
Or will he fall down and be trapped levels under until the party saves him?
Same thing are pressure plates. While the main character steps on one of them, another one is probably on the plate next to it, and without having weight 0, he affects something too.
If you say, followers are graphics only, don't fall into pits nextby, and also don't affect pressure plates, it's okay on the one side, but the illusion gets destroyed. Perhaps there's a need for some kind of a 'wait here' command (in Guild Wars you set flags for positioning heroes, and that's not a bad idea).
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

I have been thinking alot about that, and I really don't know what to do about it right now. As it is now the main character are the only one that can activate floorpads. I have been thinking about attaching him to the maincharacter in some sort of "realistic" way, but hasn't get around to it just yet.. Thats one option, the other option is that I only play with one character. But that seems abit wastefull if I now are able to recreate all the dm heroes in 3D. I don't want to attach the heroes to the screen in the old fashion dm way where I can't see either see the feets or feel the movement of each character.
But as it is now I just let him run after me because I want to see how much I can improve his AI and use the same on the upcomming monsters.

A wait here command sounds very interesting, that also means that I can have some improved "riddles" where that command is nessesery. But first I need to be able to attach the nonmain characters more to the party..

I was thinking about if one character falls down a pit or simular gets to far away from the character because of some door that closes between the main character and him, he takes his pitdamage and then gets "teleported" next to the main character.. But this may be a cheapshot ;)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by zoom »

I was thinking about a strategic approach:
you do not really control any of the characters, all run around wildly you only as a player give general directions.
of course this would be a completely new game. Maybe adding nosy champions etc, that do exactly the opposite if you give the command: Wait here (and don´t touch anything).
I do not know, just imagined this could be funny nevertheless. Maybe more appropriate for a movie or something than a game
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

Hehe, I must say that your idea sounds fun and tempting! And it could work if I had some overview of them all like in command and conquer or something simular. But I think I still needs to be able to control atleast one character to contain some of the DM feeling :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Beastman666 »

Version 005: Tested on 16:9 1280x720 fullscreenand 1280x720 windowed and 10024x768 windowed. Framerate between 29 and 59 with all resolutions and both with far distance viewing. No problems encountered (except for two keys I was unable to find). Illusion wall effect looks great.

The only thing I have noticed: if you throw the boulder in the room to push the crate of the pillar and then take the chest and throw it around in the room, the chest stops moving more slowly when i was in windowed mode - coming to rest only after quite an amount of time of spinning moves. Couriously this does not hapen in fullscreen. Also, the chest sometimes ends up half buried in the floor.

So now, where are the missing keys and why does this person always follow me around - i guess i will toss him into a pit ;-)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

I know that it may be some problem in the fullscreen, I havn't experience that specific problem on my computer, but I think this is because of the vsync. The vsync forces a framerate at 60, 30, 15.. etc. meaning that if the fps goes bellow 60 then the framerate locks at 30 fps. and if goes bellow 30 then it locks at 15 etc.
This can be fixed by a simple option to enable/disable the vsync or remove it and lock the fps manually.. By the way, do you run the game on a LCD monitor or a traditional one?


I don't know what keys you are looking for, but I have played the level myself three times and no keys should be missing!
Check the original dungeon master map (level 1) to find those specific key you are looking for!
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/135
EDIT: I guess your missing keys are at (X15 Y24) and (X14 Y21), otherwise you can always open the doors with the editor ;)

By the way, what did you think of the forcefield? Shortcut or what :D

EDIT: If you are quick enough you can lock in the following person in a room with a door, or lower a moveable wall over him, then he gets stuck inside the wall ;)
Last edited by Rasmus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

About the chest/crate stop moving speed, this is a problem when running in fullscreen mode, the elapsed time between the frames inside the game gets diffrent numbers in comperensement to windowed mode, even if the fps are the same..
This is something I will fix in the next version together with the vsync problem..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Beastman666 »

[quote="Rasmus"]About the chest/crate stop moving speed, this is a problem when running in fullscreen mode...[quote]

To clarify: the problem is in windowed mode...

[quote="Rasmus"]By the way, do you run the game on a LCD monitor or a traditional one?[quote]

Have tested it on a Laptop (max resolution 1366x768, 16:9 format) with Nvidia 9600M GT, 4 GB RAM, Win7-32Bit.

If there is any demand, I also can test it on my Desktopcomputer with 19" LCD-Monitor (max. resolution 1280x1024, but 4:3 only) with Nvidia 8800 GTX, 6 GB RAM, Win7-64bit.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

To clarify: the problem is in windowed mode...
If the it has another speed at one mode you can't say what mode is the correct one ;)

I think the v-sync problem has to do with the laptop monitor, and you should have a diffrent result at your LCD monitor, if can test it then it would be great :)

By the way, did you find the keys?
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Beastman666 »

Not yet. Have to watch Italy loosing the soccer match ^^

Give it another try tomorrow

BTW, i like like the dungeongraficx. It feels like a real dungeon with those rough stoneblocks and lacking smoothness...

And funny thing: I started the app three or four times and the game immediately loaded the dungeon but once (where it loaded the editor) - perhaps I had inadvetedly pressed a button?
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Thanks alot for your help and for always giving me reviews on the new versions :)
Last edited by Rasmus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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And funny thing: I started the app three or four times and the game immediately loaded the dungeon but once (where it loaded the editor) - perhaps I had inadvetedly pressed a button?
It should come a warning when the editor isn't loaded.. The editor only gets loaded when your resuloution are higher or equar to width 1024 and height 720..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

For those of you that are interested in what technices I used creating DMT 2 or just want some programming tips, I have added a new section at my homepage containing this info at http://dmtribute.webs.com/programmingtips.htm
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

I'm having some problems with the creature experience.. In DMT I noticed that the experience didn't went up as fast as it should..
I think my problem was with the creatures experiencemultiplier. If anyone knows how to translate the "Experience class" value on
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/1363 I would be grateful..

I guess it could have something to do with the action I use when killing the creature, and that the experience from that action gets multiplied with the creature "Experience class".. But I'm not sure :(
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

A little update for those how are interested ;)

Completed:
- Runeboard
- Fireball, Lightning, Poisoncloud spell
- Hero positions and camera controll
- Hero/Creature Generation, attackdamage, etc.
- Screamer creature
- Monster AI, they eat, sleep, presuit, plays, flees, guards, attacks, dies, gets hurt, enter groups, warn other creatures when enemies gets nearby, can be friendly or not to all kind of other creatures.
- Inventory stats / food screen.
- Animated hero actions for all actions and magics.

Todo before next release:
- The rest of the standard dm/csb spells + dm2 map spells..
- Two more creatures (maybe mummy and some kind of guard that hates mummys).
- One more hero character (thinking about Daroou because I want to try out a new furing technice)
- Specular maps needs fixing
- Grass and other alphatesting objects that should move with wind, needs fixing (if this works out nicely I may also add some simular stuff inside the dungeon.)
- All the potions and the items from level 1 (time will tell if I will do more).
- Hero levelup and experience.
- And some minor adjustments (that there really are alot of).

A last note: I still need info about the creature Experience class if anyone knows anything about the mechanics..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

I'm bringing flesh to the bones now, means, naming the variables - but those are a lot...
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Hajo »

Lots of good news. I particularly like the list of AI achievements.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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@bit: I'm looking forward to seeing csb code in bright light! And I know that it would save alot of people alot of time :)
@hajo: Still some work left, and the weather is geeting nicer outside.. To bad I can't take the computer down to the beach ;)

By the way, I got a complaint today from someone that couldn't enter my site.. If anyone could check this out? I have tried it on two computers without any problems..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

I don't really believe that my source can give much more information than the CSBwin-source in the end. If you check the CSBwin-source, you will find that Paul already capsuled such variables pretty fine. In your request it is simply so, that this older source (that I used for a quick check) obviously does not reflect all the current knowledge. That's why you will find the variable if you search for ''word16_8_11" by using 'find in files'. It's used twice in the code as a constant. One time in "Physical Attack" and then as parameter in: AdjustSkills(chIdx, 7, mtDesc.word16_8_11(), ASW_MonsterDamagesCharacter); That's called from 'MonsterDamagesCharacter' - so, everytime someone gets a slap. The value is used pure as 'experience' in 'Adjust Skills', because the decoding define BITS8_11 delivers those 4 bits shifted and masked and ready to use as an integer in the range of 0...15.

Maybe it will be possible to regroup the rules-functions in a nicer more readable way, but I believe that's not the intention in what CSBwin was made for. That stays close to the linear original, after all nothing more that a morph with some extensions. All the rest requires a lot of more work with CSBwin (or - like mine - on another way 'morphed' source) as root.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by ian_scho »

Checked out most of the menu links on the http://dmtribute.webs.com/ site, Rasmus, and it all seemed to load and work okay... :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Rasmus wrote: @hajo: Still some work left, and the weather is geeting nicer outside.. To bad I can't take the computer down to the beach ;)
A while I thought a wireless connection that reaches to the garden would help to work outside. But it's more enjoyable to be outside without a computer :P

The AI thing can be very nice. I once had a project where villagers had some of the goals in your list (sleep, drink, eat, chat, go shopping), and it made the world appear a whole lot more alive. Everyone seemed busy with something. I hope it will work as well in your project, it definitely has a lot of potential.

But don't forget to enjoy the beach. Bad weather days will come as well, and give you time to work on your project.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by zoom »

#
concerning AI
It just occured to me: The different modi (sleep, drink, chat, etc pp) should have different timers for the phase between them.
So if the monster will awaken, e.g. due to a sudden attack from a trespassing, agressive, loot seeking player-controlled party (yes that is you!)
it should be set to startled for a round or something. then get aggressive.

So for each of the modes, time should be defined for how long it will take from the "starting mode" to the "destination mode".
maybe have a between mode specified, like the startled behaviour...
hope i got this across...

also, a circle-area would make sense.. a range around the center of the creature, in which it will act. (accordingly, resonably)
e.g. there is a range circle around the monster. The intelligent player will attack with a bow and arrow, sniper tactics.
Normally, let s say the creature will rush to attack the player.*probably monster reacts even before it gets hit by the projectile, so some monsters could be good defenders(reflexes = high / sight, range = large)
If you take the range circle into account, however, the behaviour of the creature will not be rush to attack player, but hide and seek cover/ or defend.. thus rendering the efforts of the player futile.(made sense for slow moving monsters)

so apart from the behaviour - change/ mode change, there would be a threat- range defined, like in WoW, I think. There 2 modes (probably only one mode as is now for some creatures) so there will be 2 modes to enter, depending on the distance the player or threat is away from the monster..
You can probalby think of examples yourself.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

@bit: Well the good change would be that it is possible to change and improve the graphic in a easy way because it is loading it from bitmaps. Maybe a more userfriendly layout could be the goal ;)

@ian: Thanks for cheking it out, I think the problem was in his connection. But on the other hand I know that some adds and other crap has found its way into my site.. But they will be removed again soon :)

@hajo: I always prioritize friends and good weather over the computer, as long as I keep it that way I woun't be labeled as a computer freak :D And I have also noticed that spending to long time in front of the computer in a row makes me a slower programmer :) But since I am a working night and don't change back my day rythm during my free time I get alot of spare time over for DMT.. About the AI, I like to see that the creatures has a life of their own, then it feels like a disturb their usual living by choping them down :D

@zoom: Alot of suggestion from you as usual :D I like, I like...
If I understand you correctly you suggest that the creatures should have extra stats that controls how big the possibiliy is for the creatures to stop their current doing for another doing..
I sort of have something like this already, if the creatures are very sleepy and someone attacks them they could start doing about anything because of the confusion, the highest probabability is that the creature only goes back to sleep again..
The same goes for almost everything, if they are in a high need for food, they woun't care about their attackers in the same rate as they would if they were weren't hungry.. This still needs some adjustments, but I will wait for it until I have created some more creatures and insert them into a okey dungeon to see how they interact with thier enviorment..
The circle-area sounds interesting, I would normaly insert it by setting a value on how far the creature prefers to be from his attacker, then he just strafe in a direction that gives him a clear shot.. But as you say, this could be used in diffrent ways.. I havn't inserted any reflex stat, but it seems to be a good idea when you are talking about projectiles, and also defending in melee combat..
The threat modes you are talking about is already defined by what the creature are doing (guarding / exploring / hunting / eating etc..) and how friendly the creature are against the party.. A calm friendly creature with high health will not get aggressive when attacked at first (as long as the damage is not to high according to its health), I guess DM2 worked in the same way with the guards.. It was always possible to kick them a couple of times before they got aggresive..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

Okey, new updates...
I have been getting a nice tan on the beach the last two weeks.. Got burned in the sun the first days, but as a nightworker and a computergeek this is not supricing :)

And that's all..
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