DMT 2 in progress

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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

@Beastman666: You can give it a new go if you want to :) I think I've fixed the texture problem..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Beastman666 »

Fixed. v003 running. Here is some grafix's error: trees showing "too much shadow" on one side (missing texture?) - see picture (ignore bluish tint - seems to come from windows-capturing the screen):

http://yfrog.com/2q64545484p
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Jepp, that problem are on my computer as well, hasn't done anything about that problem yet.. But it will be solved in the next version. I have been getting some rendering technice ideas from DSE, so in the next days I will look further into a technice that will improve the fps rate, graphic and lights to the extrem..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

I have no idea if there is something in that library that could help you:
http://www.hlc-games.de/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=64
I know Lukas from the german C++-forum and know that his SoftPixelEngine is a collection of stuff that he grabs here and there. The source is available, though can't say how complex.
If not the graphics stuff, maybe the net-functions are of interest to you.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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@Bit: I looks really nice, but as have done all the work on my engine by own so far, I really don't want to use someone elses work. I know that their engine are better than mine, but half the fun is creating and making it better by my own ;)

I have been working on a deferred rendering technice the last days, and what really keept me busy was the shadows. Here is a screenshoot of three lights creating thier own 360 degrees shadows. Please notice that it still need some work and that the bump and parallax mapping are not in this picture:

Image

The only problem I have here is that the shadows has to be recreated 6 times to fill the whole 360 degrees light sphere, and that requiers alot of the grapic card. I think it is posible to get around this with some cheating.. But time will tell :)
If you decide to play it without shadows, I can inform that the game speed has improved very much.
I think it will take at least a week more before I can release the new version.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

It's not about using someone else's stuff completely, but perhaps there is the one or other sequence that can help you in any way.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by zoom »

Bit, do you mean that the one or other sequence can be analysed and that this "out - drawn" wisdom(methodic like ) could help then with the own project? To see how others did tackle the prob..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

Yes, those free libraries are a pool of knowledge. How do you think the professional programmers gain their 'wisdom'? They just plug things together. Without the open-source community, there would be no software industry - that's what I really believe.
People like Rasmus are an exception. And usually they got robbed out in the end.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Hehe, I agree with you bit. Without the tutorials and open sources on the web I woldn't have made it this far. I prefere to learn by using examples and then figure out what they did. But still, I havn't looked into any deeper stuff, mostly the directx SDK:s, and by my experience it needs to be understood and not only copied, otherwise I should have a framerate on 10 / sec.
I misunderstod you before, I didn't know that it was open source.. But I will take a look at it later tonight ;)

From one thing to another:
I'm almost complete with the deferred engine, there are some downsides with this one, like several big lights in front of the view can slow it down a bit, but something that is good is that I can create shadows in six directions per light at almost no cpu cost at all (if I compere with how it was before).. I still need to work a bit on it because the framerate is between 45 - 55, even if it is with all the options on..
So what's new except the shadows:
I have inserted motion blur, something I never could have done with the old engine.
I have also fixed the lights, I noticed that they didn't reflect against the materials as they should.
The hero can carry a burning torch in his left hand together with the shield (really cool to see the shadows and light move according to how the hero hold the torch :))

Here's a screenshot of how it can look with the shadows (as you can see the heros shadow with all his items are reflected on the floor because of a backround light).
Image

Here's a screenshot of the motion blur when turning real quick.
Image

And here's a screenshot of the the sky with all the weird orbiting moons.
Image
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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I think I can speed it up by using instancing. Meaning that I categorize all the simular objects into one group and then render them all in one pass, and then continue to the next group. This should speed up things very much because the typical dungeon square system is done by having one wall and copy it to all the closed squares sides.. And this goes for all items in dungeon. As it is now I render around 1000 meshes in 1000 passes when I could do it in 50 passes.

I have also decided to skip the parallax technique and instead go for a more polygon detailed world, I think this will improve both the graphic and the framerate.

But time will tell :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Time has told me.. The results are much better, and compered to parallax mapping the framerate went up, despite that I'm almost using 3 times more polygons than before..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by ian_scho »

Wow. Lookin' good! I like the map overlay in the corner as well :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

i'm liking, oh very interesting
keep your gor coin handy
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by zoom »

for automap_ I would like to have a distinguishing between wall (or level difference if there is a pit) and floor.
Orientation is a bit difficult with just lines, a slight underlying saturation for walls would be a cool addition.
also I would like to have a key or some function to being able to see the map in some sort of fullscreen mode
(move map to middle of screen)

Somehow I also would like to have some parts of the dungeon to be destructible.
I would like to collect some parts of the pillars(the shiny stuff) or make some dents into the bricks with a weapon.
Fireballs should smoulder (blacken) walls, probably melt floor etc.

dunno, whether this would be doable with the added polygons for rendering?
besides looking cool. ;)
You only have to make items and monsters be consistent with dungeon.
Imo they need more states than the dm original views.
(views are the same, back front attack etc, but there have to be transitions between the stages (views))

I hope this doesn´t all sound too ignorant. I know it is hard work
Good luck with your project, keep it on!!!
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Thanks everybody :)

I will release the new version within the next seven days..

@zoom: I'm only glad that you come with suggestions..
The map will hold stuff like pits and doors etc. Things that only are made for "looking good" and the player can do without like trees will not be in the map. It is posible with a fullscreen map, I guess you are thinking of something like a "diablo map" where you only can see where you have been on the map...

I have been thinking about what you call a destructible dungeon.. It can always be done, Just don't know how to fix it so that it don't take to much cpu, but I agree, it would be real cool. The fireball blackening can easiely be done with the same technique as normal lights are made, only that it emits black color, with deffered lightning this woun't take much out of the computer.. I'm a bit unsure how to make dents in the walls with weapons, Maybe combining the textures that make up the walls with some sort of other texture, or even better, move the vertices that makes up the walls. Hmmm, you gave me some more fun stuff to fix with :)
I don't know what you mean with "I would like to collect some parts of the pillars(the shiny stuff)"..
You only have to make items and monsters be consistent with dungeon.
Imo they need more states than the dm original views.
(views are the same, back front attack etc, but there have to be transitions between the stages (views))
I'm not sure what you mean here. I tried to group monsters in DMT 1, but was unsuccesful :S.. It's extreamly hard to combine the pathfinding with how the monster should stand in the group. The only thing I can do here is that I have a leader in every monstergroup that the other monsters follow.. But it's still hard to make it work in narrow dungeons..

As it is now, I'm still working with getting the fps up some more, I still have some ideas on how to do this. The dungeon look nice in my opinion, but the outside still needs some work with the lights..
After that I will insert som doors and pits to open and close.. Then I will release the next version.

I will not start working on the "destructible dungeon" before fireball spells etc. have been created..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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"I would like to collect some parts of the pillars(the shiny stuff)"..
The environment should produce items. If I hack at a pillar, maybe a sliver of marble would fall off, thus giving me an item "shiny marble splitter"
Something like that. If I happen to come across some moss on the wall, I could collect that , too.


..> thing is, the more detailed a dungeon gets, the more I want to be able to do with or to the dungeon. Some graphics should have a function in the game, apart from just looking nice.
monsters leave footprints in mud, trample high grass all over, party too.
I really know this is very much to ask here. Anyways it s just brainstorming, so..

------------------


The monsters should have the same detail grade like the dungeon.

1:
If you can move around freely in 3d space in your game, the monsters should somehow match that also.
So they should be able to move a bit like the player would, but I suggest to have them still use the states known from dm : attack, side etc.
the difference to dm would be that in the 3d game world, monsters would have no sudden change between , -for instance- the side graphic and the front graphic.
but do heed that for monsters to be convincing looking there has to be movement of arms, legs, weight - shifting and so forth(animations)
that occurs when the monster moves and shifts.
But with all the animations in between, the monster just still does only move from "side" to "front".
The increased dungeon graphics make the need for additional frames for the movement of monsters.

2.
Graphic - wise they(adversaries) should look similar(alike, same polygon structure, same effects).
No style difference here, or if a style difference with dungeon, outside or monsters, only a style difference that would nicely go together.

I do not know how many styles of creating 3d monsters are actually out there or what would match your world.
(style: comic style, still-be-able- to see polygon style, realistic style, wow-like, which means comic combined with polygon style and so forth)

Same goes for the spells and the torches. I do not think the fire you use right now is bad, but ask yourself these questions,
Are there possibly other fire effects you could use or test?
Do you like the torch-effect now, does it match with the overall dungeon?
Have you chosen it because it works or because you think it is the most applicable?

that´s it for now..have fun ;)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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I guess it's possible to be able to take stuff from walls etc. It isn't that hard to fix. I just put in more objects in the dungeon like "moss" that are removeable.. Footsteps goes under the same category as "fireball blackening". Grass that moves for the hero, can be abit harder, but I know that it can be done.. At first I was thinking of lians (or whatever the robelike nature thingy is called) that hangs from the roof in the dungeon, and that it moves as the character / monster gets in its way. I have to study skinned animation some more to fix this.

About the monsters, they will be made in 3D, so front/side/back images will not be a issue. Their looks will be made in the same way as the hero in my demo. The animation are made with mesh skinning (bones) so that it looks more realistic.
I'm not looking for realistic or cartoonish graphic in the game, but something in beetween.
You are right about the torches, as the dungeon gets more detailed the torchlights has to be that to, I think more and smaller particles are the right way to go.

Thanks for your suggestions :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Have changed my gameidea a little, I have now decided that it will be posible to play with four DM heroes instead of only one.. But I have a diffrent gameplan than the original DM. I was thinking something like Final Fantasy X2 when it comes to how I controll the heroes.
Something like this:
I can choose one leader of the four heroes with the keyboard, and can only controll the leader I have choosen directly. The view will be from the leader in first person like in doom, and with him I can cast spells, attack monsters etc..
The other heroes that havn't been choosen will instead follow commands that the player have set up for them. Something like:
First priority: Follow leader!
Second priority: Heal wounded heroes!
Third priority: Attack the same monster as the hero!
Fourth priority: Attack the monster nearby!
Fifth priority: Create health potions when less than 2!
Sixth priority: If hp is less than 10 %, run as hell! (but this one should be first ;))
etc...
Then when it comes to attacking monsters, certain heroes will have certain prioritys for this.
If monster is close attack with weapon.
If mana is high and no friendly creature are in the way, then use fireball!
If mana low then use bow..
etc..

The biggest fear I had for doing all this was that I had to create 3D models for all the heroes.. But I have found a rather basic way to do it on, I found a program on the net called "makehuman", with this I could create human 3D models in no time.. But what I did was that I have a basic 3D body that I can alter from DMT2, how muscular he is going to be, how long, skincolor, beard, haircut etc.. So I only do the faces in the "makehuman" program and attach them to the body.. This made it easier for me when I was going to dress them with items..

Well, I still have alot of work to do, but here is the first hero..

Iaido Ruyito Chiburi:
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by zoom »

do you plan on a network capability?
would be cool, and for this you would need champion 3d models as well ;)

then there should be a way/panel or mode
to trade stuff with other players

the automatic actions /scripts need some tweaking , but not a bad idea.
You could make each champion have certain knacks for certain actions, like suicidal, hatred for oitus, greedy, unreliable, slow, etc.

why not make a cheat code where you can select and run around with all heroes? 24 champions against chaos...could be fun, with 6 times the firepower of a 4 man party ! :twisted: !
the restriction to 4 champions has apart from the story no real reason, I guess?

edit: you could also make NPC- parties, AI could be really dumb, just for the fun of it :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Well, I have looked abit into network.. But I have no experience of it, the biggest problem seems to be how to syncronise the dataflow. It would be really cool. And if I got it to work it wouldn't be that hard to configurate the game to it.. But first I want to fix all the basics in the game.

I have created a simple "follow the leader" commando that works okey, but if I have more than three heroes it seems to be annoying running into them all the time. As it is now, I can input how many heroes I want to, and I want to keep it that way just in case.. The only thing is with having to many heroes is that one hero have about 30 000 polygons, and when I run around in the dungeon with 4 - 5 heroes where every light have to render the nearby heroes 6 times to get the shadows right I could easely end up with 3 000 000 polygons.. I can be an easy fix with a low poly character that only are there for the shadows, but then the heroes woun't get the selfshadow as they should.. Maybe I will put in a option for those with graphiccards newer than 3 years..

NPC- parties shouldn't be a problem.. They will work just as the monsters.. What I do now is that I create AI for the heroes that follows the leader, and test it to the extream so that I later on can use the same AI on the monsters (but with diffrent prioritys). So when I am satisfied with the heroes AI, I will be ready to create monsters.

I created gando to, with all his starting items.. It takes about 2 hours to create a new hero with 4 items, so I don't think I will have a problem creating them all.. (even if I have to create a new body for the womens ;))
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Bit »

Perhaps try the follow-algorithm that way, that one character follows the other, beginning with the one nearest to the leader, whereby one always keeps some distance from the other (kinda recursive). This can be changed if monster(s) are nearby and the character step into some aggro-radius and decides to attack by its own. Pretty good realized in Guild Wars.
If a nice walking curve is needed - there's one function in allegro that could be easily isolated. It makes a curve (and delivers point by point of that curve) from some reference points and some angles that make the curvature.
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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I agree, it would be good with a walking curve. If the heroes are far away from the leader it would be faster to calculate where they should go than a pathfinder for example. And the walking curve can also be used for creatures with a good smelling ability that are on the hunt.. I was thinking about two modes when playing, one "explore and attack mode" where the heroes runs freely and kill monsters close to the leader, and if there are items like stones, arrows etc. the heroes can gather them and use in combat.. The other mode would be "follow the leader" where the heroes also can do heal and other stuff that doesn't effect the "following" to much. I must say that the AI is one the most fun part in the programming :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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It has been awhile since my last upload, the reason is that I want the shadows, sounds, heromodels and item physics to work as I want them too..
But I should be able to upload a new version within a week if everything goes as planed..

Here's a screenshot of me testing the itemphysics on Iaido..
Image
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by beowuuf »

Poor guy's going ot be the worse for wear when you start implimenting death :D
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Rasmus »

Hahaha, well I think he wants me to impliment death :D
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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DMT 2 version 0.04 are now avalible for download. I have also uploaded some new screenshoots and a video that you can check out at the video gallery. This version are vary diffrent from the ones before. You can now control 2 heroes, pick up and cast items, hit and damage almost every object in the dungeon. The graphic has also been improved with motionblur, shadows and a much more detailed world.

Here are some screenshoots:
Image
Image
Image

And here are a link to the video:
http://dmtribute.webs.com/apps/videos/v ... 0-04-video

Let me know what you think :)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by Beastman666 »

Tried v004. Here are some suggesstions:

- i find it rather annoying (?) that when my character is using a torch, that the torch-movement (arm-movement) is too much. Please reduce the movement of arms / held-items - currently it is a bit too much making him feel like a epileptic (for a lack of a better word - no offense or insults intented)...

- same goes when opening the character-sheet. There is too much movement involved. When closing the sheet, my character always looks another way.

- I'm unable to pick up objects when the charactersheet is opened and the head-popping of the character is distracting.

- the downward-slide while walking is also a bit too much.

- my comrade is sometimes hanging back and unable to follow me...

- I can walk streight through the door (after 5 minutes of searching a level) i nearly gave up and though I would never leave the starting room, until I tried to walk through the gate...surprise it worked ;-)

- the physics engine is too slow. Carrying a crate in the first room and dropping it to the floor, the crate takes endlessly to stop adjusting its position (until it finally comes to rest). As realistic as it may be, perhaps just cut a few calculations if possible or try to speed up calculations...

thats it for now, keep up your work :-)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Thanks for your suggestions Beastman :)
- I forgot about the downward-slide problem, but it has fixed it now.
- The character-sheet movement has been removed and he is now standing still.
- I will not fix the object picking when the charactersheet is opened, this is because I will add another menu to the left of the one I have now, so there will be no room for specific item picking when the charactersheet is opened.
- The comrade will get improved AI later on, I'm not sure if I will fix this before the next release.
- You are right about the physics engine, but it's a minor problem for me to fix so untill the next release ;)
- I will also fix the torch so that it doesn't move around so much, I have been thinking about it but I can be lazy when it comes to calibration sometimes...

And I'm sorry about the door.. I installed it a while ago and got used to walking through it, so I didn't think about it when I released this version.
But on the other hand, you completed the only "secret" in the game! Good Work! :)

Thanks again for your suggestions, it saves me some work..
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

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Here we go again :)
A new beta version is on its way..
I have managed to recreate the second DM level (the one after hall of champions) into DMT. That also means that the editor have been greatly improved, and I can't see any problem with it not to handle the rest of the DM dungeon mechanics. I still havn't added any monsters, and the items are only the most neccesery to complete the level (keys, coins, etc.). When it comes to the dungeon objects, I have enough to fill the levels with alot of variation.
I have also worked a bit more one the 3D engine and managed to increase the fps a bit more, atleast so that I can play the whole level without dropping below 55 fps. The only thing is that if I have to much lights that emit shadows and that has a too big radius like 4 dm squares in every direction, then I will need a new computer :) I think alot also have to do with how the level is designed.
So the things that have been fixed are:
- Traps, doors, levers, keyholes, teleporters, floor pads, wall text, improved particle system, improved collision detection.
- Also changed the dungeon lights so that it isn't totally dark when no light is nearby, this gave the graphic a softer and better look..
- The item physics has been fixed so that the items falls faster and don't bounce around so much.
- The inventory has been improved and each character can now hold up to 36 items.
- The torch in hand has been removed for now, the dungeon has enough lights as it is.
- The downward-slide problem has been fixed.
- The characters stands still in the inventory.
- I have also fixed alternative methods for those computers that can't render to the D3DFMT_R32F texture (32 bit on red, and zero bit on the rest). Now I can convert traditional 8 bit per color texture into D3DFMT_R32F, but the downside is that the fps gets down alittle when forced to use it.

There are probably some more things that has been done, that I can't remember right now..

So the next release should come within a couple of days, until then I have some new screenshoots ;)
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Re: DMT 2 in progress

Post by ian_scho »

Wow, this stuff looks really sweet! Fantastic work.
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