little B3D test

Post by **linflas** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:36 pm

as many of you already know, blitz3D is a win32 3d-enhanced version of the good old Blitz Basic on Amiga.

this is only a demo i made in 2-3 hours, based on a very simple tutorial. i post it here for possibly interested people, i don't plan to make a game all by myself actually !

http://redribbon.planet-d.net/dm/test.rar
unrar and run dm.exe : you can move with QWEASD just like in DM and click left mouse button for fireball.

this is not for square movement adepts btw

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:41 pm

All I got was

"Unable to set graphics mode"

Post by **linflas** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:43 pm

damn i don't know how to change this

it is supposed to be in 800x600x32 fullscreen..

EDIT : yep, i found something about 32bit modes not supported for voodoo or stuff like this... i will make a 16 bit version or a windowed one.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:06 pm

I used Blitz to to the first draft of Chaos Forge

THe one with the blue windowed syste (released).

There is also a BlitzPlus version (unreleased - discontinued) and currently there is a version in C# which does all the cool GUI stuff well but not the graphics and a nice graphics interface in BlitzMax (that uses OpenGL)

The plan is to move it to BlitzMax when the GUI module for windows is released.

In the mean time.

If you have any questions feel free to email them to me

Post by **linflas** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:03 pm

@paul : archive updated, now it runs in windowed mode only, hope it works for you now !
@andy : mail sent

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:29 pm

That's better. It creates a Window.

Now it says:

"Unable to create 3d Scene"

It is probably due to my video card. It barely supports
Windows. I never play any games that require any
special hardware so I have never bothered to upgrade.
But there is no "required hardware" file
or anything so I though I would try it. Please don't worry
about it. I was simply curious.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:46 pm

@linflas: Reply sent

Paul: B3d Needs the following (from Blitzbasic.com)

Both of these run on any version of Windows with DirectX 7 (or above) and Internet Explorer 4 (or above) installed; this includes:

· Windows 9x/Me
· Windows 2000
· Windows XP

Note that Windows NT4 is not supported by Blitz Basic or Blitz3D, as it only has DirectX versions up to 3.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:30 pm

I have Windows 2000 Pro service pack 4, DirectX9.0b,
Internet Explorer 5.

"Unable to create 3D Scene"

But, as I said, it is not important. Just curious. I have
plenty of things to do with Zyx on my back.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:40 pm

hehe

What GFX Card are you running? Does it support 3D Acceleration?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:53 pm

Does it support 3D Acceleration?

Oh. I did not see that in the hardware requirements.

NVidia Riva TNT2 Model 64

Built in about 1974, before the words "3d Acceleration"
had ever been uttered, I imagine. I found it in my
box of old parts when I installed a new motherboard
without built-in video hardware.

But I thought that was what DirectX was about. To do in
the hardware what can be done in the hardware and to do
everything else in the software. That's what the Manual says.
I was not interested in speed, I just wanted to see what
the program was all about. But it is not important to me.

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:51 pm

Hmm, TNT2, I thought I was bad, Ive got a GF2mx 32 mb, suffice to say that runs B3D stuff (albeit slowly).

DirectX handles the interface to teh Gfx card, but if the hardware doenst support the calls you are making to it, then its a no go.

I can ask blitzbasic.com if you like? Its normally pretty good.

If you managed to run my old CHaosForge editor (thats Blitz) but only uses 2d commands and not 3d graphics mode.

A

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:47 pm

Here is what the DirectX manual says: (From Microsft Press)

When a DirectX object is created for a particular device, DirectX queries the hardware for information used to fill a table of "capabilities". If a hardware support exist for a particular capability -- say a graphics coprocessor that that can perform stretching -- DirectX will call on that hardware to provide that functionality. Where there is no hardware support for a capability, an equivalent Hardware Emulation Layer function will be called.

And that is how I have understood the situation myself for
some time. In fact, the phrase '3D Acceleration' implies that it
will simply go faster with the hardware capability. Not that
it cannot go at all without it.

But I know that a program can 'insist' that the
Hardware Emulation Layer' not be used. It can 'insist' that
the functionality exist in the haredware.

But I have no need to run B3D test. And the fact that my
TNT2 card is sufficient for my needs proves that I don't
spend a lot of time playing things like Doom and Half-Life
( or whatever games are current ).

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:57 pm

It's a sad comment on the state on the industry when you can still name the current games, just by putting the relevant number on the end...

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:06 pm

Hmm, interesting excerpt. Im still a bit confused why B3d Test didnt run. The guy who wrote B3D is normally very good with apps running on older systems. Im surprised if he forced it to ensure that hardware acceleration was there. Maybe the later versions of B3D needed beefier requirements.

Post by **linflas** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:33 pm

advanced a bit...
here are 2 screenshots showing playing modes you can switch with space bar :
- free look mode with centered hand, just like a good old FPS

- interface mode, pointer is now free but you can move with QWEASD, just like in DM + mouse wheel for looking up and down : i draw the spellbook interface and made it work i.e. you can compose your spell but you can't cast it yet.

mouse mid button resets the view to horizontal and errr.. there's a fake wall in one of the pics

andyboy_uk · Post by **andyboy_uk** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:37 pm

Liking the look of this so far. Get a simple monster in there next, go on, get the hard bit out of the way

A

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:59 pm

The DirectX documentation isn't very clear on that. It implies that DirectX creates a software device as the need arises, but in fact you must test for hardware capability yourself, and if it doesn't exist, you must tell DirectX to create a software (HEL) device. The standard way of doing this is to poll device types and use the highest one, which will be HAL if it's supported and RGB if it's not.

Paul said he has a TNT2, which I know for a fact supports HAL. However, it's possible linflas's engine is creating a TnL HAL device, which TNT2 does not support. So, that's the first place I'd look. You may want to enumerate available devices and let the user choose one. (This is good practice anyway.)

Your demo ran great on my system. Feels weird without collision, but the frame rate was extremely smooth.