Deep Cave

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Mystic_Unicorn
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 19-Feb-10 21:16

My win7 beta told me to reinstal....So i use it to solve our problem. I was able to simulate the situation. After searching I cam to this page:

http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/1988.aspx
Games that create a GamerServicesComponent/use live networking REQUIRE a full XNA Game Studio 3.0 install (see this thread). The Games for Windows - LIVE Redistributable is NOT sufficient since there are non-redistributable components in XNA Game Studio 3.0 that are required.
So Ill try to get rid of that GamerServicesComponent. Until that time, full package is required.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 21-Feb-10 17:20

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:So Ill try to get rid of that GamerServicesComponent. Until that time, full package is required.
Ok - installed full package at home. A few more observation during testing:

1) the key ring is a container but is not limited to keys. There are also those magical swords in it. Specific containers should be limited to specific type of items.

2) the game crashed after i placed the torch into the left hand of the 1st character. The torch showed up on the asttack panel (to the right). When I clicked onto the attack panel with the torch the game crashed (showing me the windows "programm does no longer function" error).

3) the movement icons to the left are non-funtional (yet)

4) item handling is much better - not as fiddly as before - I even managed to get the arrow into the quiver.

Now i will be doing some testing on the editor...

A) Pressure Pad icon when placed on map shows as normal floor.

B) Map dimensions cannot be changed. New map cannot be created. Red haze canot be placed on map. Green haze cannot be placed on map. Blue haze is teleporter (?) because when plaing a blue haze and walking in I end up in a 1-floor-tile-all-around-walled-room without exit.

C) Placed Wall in order to place a keyhole for new door. Cannot find it on Tile editor, so i deleted an thought to place the key hole on the existing wall to the north side: TILE_WALL_7_9_TEST_LEVEL: Objects: Dungeon objects: cannot delete existing objected once added.

D) unable to figure out how to place keyhole and link it to new door.

E) levers: cannot find them (they are not yyet implemented, aren't they?).

F) Open pit does not display correctly during game (showing a rainbow pattern with the word PROPADLISTE in white

can you make the lists of the editor sortable by alphabet?

perhaps a small tutorial would be useful, especially how to link various objects..that it for now. more later...

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 21-Feb-10 21:32

First of all im trying to find out functional non limiting concepts. This can be seen in editor. Item edit is most far in conceptual design, other parts are just "thoughts"...
Beastman666 wrote: 1) the key ring is a container but is not limited to keys. There are also those magical swords in it. Specific containers should be limited to specific type of items.
So far im using Container item type just for identification of free container while putting item on stats. However limitation while putting items in contain is veery simple so i do not bother at current time and moved to another more important stuff.

Beastman666 wrote: 2) the game crashed after i placed the torch into the left hand of the 1st character. The torch showed up on the asttack panel (to the right). When I clicked onto the attack panel with the torch the game crashed (showing me the windows "programm does no longer function" error).
Ill try to fix it.
Beastman666 wrote: 3) the movement icons to the left are non-funtional (yet)
That is correct.
Beastman666 wrote: 4) item handling is much better - not as fiddly as before - I even managed to get the arrow into the quiver.
Nice....
Beastman666 wrote: Now i will be doing some testing on the editor...
Still in huge development and lots of stuff still hardcoded in test methods. Those test should be little tricky.
Beastman666 wrote: A) Pressure Pad icon when placed on map shows as normal floor.
For a long time i have no idea what "preasure pad" should be. That is the reason why it is not implemented.
Beastman666 wrote: B) Map dimensions cannot be changed. New map cannot be created. Red haze canot be placed on map. Green haze cannot be placed on map. Blue haze is teleporter (?) because when plaing a blue haze and walking in I end up in a 1-floor-tile-all-around-walled-room without exit.
For now I do not need any other map that the testing one. That is the reason why "Create new map" is not available. Hazes. Generally if u take any tile available in editor so u can say that all tles are just predefined in code. There is nothing u cannot change in editor. Ill explain:

Blue haze, known as teleport. In editor is predefined for this tile that it is tile with two effects:

1) I_TELEPORT
2) I_PLAY_SOUND

U can se this on this tile: TILE_TELEPORT_5_5_TEST_LEVEL. Select this tile in tile editor and u can see that there are two effects "OnEnter". Click the textbox and dialog appears. On that dialog u can change all existing effects. So if I can say teleport in just normal tile with two effects. Predefined in editor. That is all.

Back to your trouble. U possibly do not set up effect. In your case u on "SimpleEffectList editor" dialog click effect "I_TELEPORT" and type in coordinates.
Beastman666 wrote: D) unable to figure out how to place keyhole and link it to new door.
U must define a wall. U will see it in mapeditor in tileinfo window which id this tile have. U already mentioned so u are familiar with tile ids. Click the dungeon objects on specific tile in tileeditor. In this moment u shoud have predefined items u wanna put on wall. See TILE_WALL_7_9_TEST_LEVEL and its dungeon object for better info. So far it is simple. There is a logical bug in datas u have. Reference is set to to items which are on specific wall: ITEM_KEYHOLE_MASTER, ITEM_KEYHOLE_ONYX. Correctly it should point do instanced items. Ill explain:

In game objects are predefined and they are marked as "CORE". Those objects are used in all dungeons and are very common. On the other hand dungeon use only instances of predefined "COREs". Example: In dungeon two apples can exist at same time. One apple have only two bites let and second apple only one bite left. Techincally those are tow individual items which came from same source. This concept goes throu all objects in deepcave.

Now u understand that KEYHOLE bug i mention is about using core stuff which is common to all. So ALL ONYX KEYHOLES will be linked. Practically it is same object. U unlock one, and all other with same id will be unlocked too. Ill fix this later....

Back to link problem. Simple in item editor open specific keyhole (in our case ITEM_KEYHOLE_MASTER(which is wrong as we already know)) and click linked objects textbox. U can see two onjects linked. DOOR_WOODEN_9_6_TEST_LEVEL, TILE_WALL_9_12_TEST_LEVEL.

Beastman666 wrote: E) levers: cannot find them (they are not yyet implemented, aren't they?).
Firstly i want to say. It is not implemeted but that is not tru. I u got the concept from my previous comment u know that I_TOOGLE effect and link to object which u want toogle is way u wanna go.
Beastman666 wrote: F) Open pit does not display correctly during game (showing a rainbow pattern with the word PROPADLISTE in white
Ill work on gfx as soon as possible. Display monsters, items on floor, ...
Beastman666 wrote: can you make the lists of the editor sortable by alphabet?
There will be needed much more that sorting in editor.
Beastman666 wrote: perhaps a small tutorial would be useful, especially how to link various objects..that it for now. more later...
I understand that u are confused. I will create tutorial for everything in moment all concepts will fit and everything will be technically done. Right now im making too many changes and i do not want to make those changes in documentation as well. I like the idea on EFFECTs and CONDITIONAL behavior.

// For CONDITIONs watch ITEM_MONEYBOX_CLOSED_1.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 21-Feb-10 22:05

Thanx for explaining. I discovered another crash in EDITOR - TILE EDITOR (TAB) - OnEnter - Green Field Click (meaning I'm unable to get a list of effects): Unhandled Exception in Application. Click Continue to ignore error and continue or Close to end app. Unable to load Type "DC2010.Effects.I.PlaySound_Effect" in assembly DC2010_Core.Verwsion1.0.0.0,Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null" (this is a routh translation from german into english). [SNIP]
Last edited by Beastman666 on 15-Mar-10 21:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 21-Feb-10 22:09

select specific effect/item first than click textboxes...i know about this.

//edit:: most parts of code are not safe as it should be...
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 25-Feb-10 21:57

I have some updates for u.

Im working on icons and gfx which would I like. Here is some example what im talking about:

ImageImage
Silver coin

ImageImage
Vexirk attack (attack will be animated(sleeves are moving)) (compared to original)

As u already know I thing that game mechanics must be completed at first. So my progress in this area is here:
- Every effect can affect one or more masteries. Mastery is generally known as WIZARD, PRIEST etc. Mastery count is not limited.
- Application is no logging (log4net)
- While in development so current coordinated can be displayed
- Added items on floor (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2705 ... nfloor.png)
- Working on fountain from cowsmanaut
- Every object can find his owner
- Preparing for monsters.
- Magical item in inventory is now displayed in blueish rectangle

- Big changes in editor so it is much more friendly
- In editor template and dungeon items are now splitted so it is much less confusing
- Editor can handle multiple maps, add, remove, ...
- Editor can edit creatures

And many changes which are not so important for u.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by cowsmanaut » 26-Feb-10 05:35

speaking of fountains.. check your mail :P

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 27-Feb-10 22:32

Thanks for gfx. I realy like your work.

New features in game:

- flooritems, wallitems, ... now fully functional (picking, switching, ...)
- http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3227/dc01.png
- http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5838/dc02.png

- i start to work on monsters (thay can die...)
- http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9786/dc03.png
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 28-Feb-10 09:06

Wow fantastic - are you a workaholic ? ;-)

Yesterday evening something came to my mind concerning dungeon grafix: I have a lot of 3d dwarven forge dungeon tiles which are amazing quality (if you don't know them look at dwarvenforge.com). I habe the Den of Evil Room and Corridor Sets, Dungeon Corridor and Room and Traps and Wicked Addition Sets, and Cavern Room and Tunnel Sets and a lot of dungeon dressings (such as tables, and armor pieces).

Would it be helpful to make photos (perhaps from different angles) so that you can "import" them the game. I don't know much about grafik artistry on computer, but isn't it possible to import the photos into a 3d-program and "convert" them into the format you need for the game. Say, for example i take photo directly from the front. You take the phto into a programm and make your number of needed rotations to get a complete set of the wall positions you need.

Don't know if this is possible / helpful, or if its is to much work, or whatever.

Next on monsters: i really like if they are animated (perhaps animated decoration, etc. is also intended? *hopeful look*).

And combat: do you intend combat to be "real-time" (one action per character per X seconds) or turn-based or both. I would like it to be turn-based (one action per turn or something like that) because i do not like insane mouse-clicking or perhaps even both.

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 28-Feb-10 19:29

Beastman666 wrote:Wow fantastic - are you a workaholic ? ;-)
I hope not. But possible is everything. Now seriously. I failed in this project so many times and it still lies in my head. There is only one way how to get it out of my head.
Beastman666 wrote: Yesterday evening something came to my mind concerning dungeon grafix: I have a lot of 3d dwarven forge dungeon tiles which are amazing quality (if you don't know them look at dwarvenforge.com). I habe the Den of Evil Room and Corridor Sets, Dungeon Corridor and Room and Traps and Wicked Addition Sets, and Cavern Room and Tunnel Sets and a lot of dungeon dressings (such as tables, and armor pieces).
An interactive ingame map came into my mind when i saw this: http://dwarvenforge.com/store/product_i ... mageid=180 . Isometic view will be nice.
Beastman666 wrote: Next on monsters: i really like if they are animated (perhaps animated decoration, etc. is also intended? *hopeful look*).
Right now im working on fountain from cowsmanaut (lion) and adding frames which will animate water. Items on floor/walls are animated. Technically almost everything can be animated. I do not like static things :) At current moment monsters are not animated but they use same algorithms as other gfx in DC. So u only need to add frames at it will animated. Second question is how will/can draw frames. I will make some animated stuff into next techdemo.
Beastman666 wrote: And combat: do you intend combat to be "real-time" (one action per character per X seconds) or turn-based or both. I would like it to be turn-based (one action per turn or something like that) because i do not like insane mouse-clicking or perhaps even both.
I prefer same way as original DM.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 2-Mar-10 19:27

I have some updates and screens.

Image
Working alcoves

Image
Animated wallitems

Image
Fountain from DM2

Image
Fireplace from DM2

Image
Fireplace from DM2

Image
Vexirk from chaos strikes back

Image
Animated flooritems (Tempest)
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 2-Mar-10 21:23

You are hard at work or so it seems. Great progress. *do not take the following too serious* The only thing I could complain is the resolution the wallitems (such as the the fireplace - especially he burning fire- which does not fit with the rest of the highres grafix and pixelized vexit-hobbit. But I do not (complain), because I know it's only fo testing purposes. ;-) Good job as far as the pictures can tell. I encourage you to go on. I would even help out if I were able to do some decent grafix on computer (drawing on paper is not a problem - but only b&w pencil) or if my programming was not so rusted. So the only thing I can offer is as a tester and (if ready) translater or to make some dungeons...

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 2-Mar-10 21:54

Thanks for kind words.

As u said wallitems are only for testing purposes. It is only taken from DM2, resized(x2) and thats all. Ill release items which will be little cleared. This can be seen on vexirk I post earlier. Second thing u didnt notice is that this water fountain does not fit in current dungeon wallset(it is different style(when u see it it hits u and that is bad)). On the other hand alcove is fine (i thought) except items which are not positioned correctly.

Most important stuff is game mechanics. Most of clones will end only with basic dungeon view and that is rly not good. So everything u see on screenshot is able to interact or work. :)

My english is horrible and I will need some corrections. But this will be very simple task because im using resource manager for texts. So everything is in one file. Also other languages will be available.

example from resource file:

Code: Select all

HEALTH;HEALTH
STAMINA;STAMINA
MANA;MANA
MUMBLE;{0} MUMBLES A MEANINGLESS SPELL.
NEED_EMPTY_FLASK;{0} NEEDS AN EMPTY FLASK IN HAND.
NEED_MORE_PRACTICE; {0} NEEDS MORE PRACTICE TO CAST THAT
CANNOT_CAST_NOW; {0} CAN'T CAST THAT NOW.
FIZZLE;{0}'S SPELL FIZZLES.
In next techdemo I will releease interactive monsters. In other words in that moment most of the features will be completed.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Erik Bauer » 3-Mar-10 07:51

Whew!
Your clone is promising very very well!
It's cool we are having both a 3D rendered clone like Entombed and a 2D with HD GFX like yours, and both are going to be top quality as it seems!

If I can suggest you something, by looking at the pictures, I can tell you that the marble fireplace is a little out of place in a rocky dungeon. Maybe making it less shiny would do.
Also, the teleporter seems a little... bubbly, if you get what I mean, maybe making it more sparkly could improve it (this is just a personal opinion and maybe your teleporter GFX is only temporal).
The interface looks clean, but the arrows... there is something missing... what about using a bacground similar to the wallset or to a rocky sheet and having the arrows act as they were metallic buttons inside the rocky sheet?

Good points:
I DO LOVE the green monster!
The wallset is also very good! Resembling the original one but with more colours and details.
I also like the Magical energy field you can see around the blade on the floor in the last shot. It makes obvious it is going to be a magical blade!

Keep up with the good work!
Don't let a closed door stop you

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 3-Mar-10 10:19

Good to have more followers!

To your questions. Teleport as can be seen on screens s not moving and i do now want to do that kind of movement we know from DM. So I wondering about using tis library: http://mpe.codeplex.com/documentation. This library allow to work with particles. Screens from this library can be seem here: http://mpe.codeplex.com/wikipage?title= ... umentation. Some idea what this library is capable of: http://www.splashvision.com/Video/8617_ ... ffect.html.

To the other stuff. It is still work in progress and fireplace will change as well as fountain(cowsmanaut knows)
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 3-Mar-10 20:55


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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 7-Mar-10 10:40

Here is some more:

a) Using items on eye-symbol of charactersheet does not display item's info but shows character's info.

b) putting the items (except Coinbox, blue sword, red sword, green sword, and bow) or scroll into lefthand on the dungeonview display puts these items into the character's inventory. putting into lefthand on charactersheet does, however, displays these items in hand.

c) no progress bar display on charactersheet for food, water, poison

d) textdisplay on dungeonview ovelaps with "Party facing [direction]"-Text.

e) when several lines of text are displayed on dungeonview, the last line only shows upper half of text.

f) program crashed when putting keyring into left hand on charactersheet - no windows event entry but event logs in LogTest2.txt. resolved after clean "install" - possibly my fault because of fiddling with the editor.

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 10-Mar-10 19:10

Beastman666 wrote:Just a little test...

Image

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7984/deepcave.png
I like the eyes, ill use then. Rest of logo I already have so ill combine it.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 10-Mar-10 19:18

I make another big step.

- Monsters are able to move around and they can be killed. They are not attacking yet.
- This required whole party concept to be created.
- If u want to add a monster it can be added to party.
- Party is something u are attacking
- Plenty of new GFX were added
- Added lion fountain (cowsmanauts gfx), now im working on animation of that.
- Reworked concept of displaying items on wall/floor
- Now u need only front view and sideview
- Other gfx is simply calculated(resized).
- For all the stuff i mentioned here is also created basic support in editor

Most of stuff u pointed out are not bugs but they are simple not implemented yet.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 10-Mar-10 19:20

Is there some gfx magican who can create openning screen? Simply the first screen u saw when u run game? Right now i work with bluescreen with logo..
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 14-Mar-10 09:32

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:I like the eyes, ill use then. Rest of logo I already have so ill combine it.
Eyes:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3492/eyes4p.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3117/eyes3h.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2773/eyes2.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8199/eyes1w.jpg

Plus some ideas for effects/tiles (to be considered for (future) implementation:
Teleporter (repositioning of party)
Magic-Dead Zone (Spell-Failure Chance 100%)
Diminished Magic Zone (Spell-Failure Chance of x% and x < 100%)
Magic Empored Zone (Spells cost x% less Mana to cast)
Magic Depowered Zone (Spells cost x% more Mana to cast)
Spinning Field
Fake / Illusion Walls (walk through)
Darkness (light spell and torches non-functional)
Fog / Rain / Snow (obscured vision, hit-chance for ranged attacks decreases)
Ice (slide to end of corridor / room or x number of fields)
Mud (slowed movement)
Hast (increased action speed i.e. attacking)
Slow (decreased action speed i.e. attacking)
Life-Regenration (+x temporary HP per time period (?) or increased regeneration when resting)
Mana-Regenration (+x temporary MP per time period (?) or increased regeneration when resting)
Life-Drain (-x permanent or temporary HP per time period)
Mana-Drain (-x permanent or temporary MP per time period)
Attribute-Drain (-x permnent or temporarity attribute score per time period)
One-way doors
Traps (Disarm Trap ability via general skill (all non-thieves) special skill (or bonus to general skill for thieves) or spell)
Magnetic (Compass non-functional)

Also is it / will it be possible to have more than one effect on one tile (so for example i can have a magnetic spin field ?

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 28-Apr-10 17:28

Long time no see..How's it going?

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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 28-Apr-10 18:40

Fine, Im very active in work and im preparing for moving to another city. So im not working on it right now.
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Re: Deep Cave

Post by Uther » 3-Nov-10 18:20

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Fine, Im very active in work and im preparing for moving to another city. So im not working on it right now.
Your clone looks great

So many DM clones get started with much hype only to disappear.

I understand why. I have also been working on a clone using Visual Studio Express and XNA framework. And I realised that it is a lot of work for 1 person. probably too much for most.
All I have so far is code to read in the original dat files and wander around the original dungeon. All the walls/ stairs, monsters floor items etc are there, you just can't interact with them.

It would be great if rather than just abandon the project, it could be released to the community, to finish/modify etc.
I for one would like too see an open source version of DM, so anyone trying a clone wouldn't need to start from scratch each time.( remember how Doom took off after the source code was released.?)

Or if you would like some help with coding c#/dotnet/XNA let me know.

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