Deep Cave

Lesser known clone projects or isolated news items about rare or unusual clones.
Forum rules
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
User avatar
Sophia
Concise and Honest
Posts: 3911
Joined: 12-Sep-02 19:50
Location: Nowhere in particular
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Sophia » 2-Feb-10 19:41

It's a nice idea, but realistically, you're in for an uphill battle. It's easy to say "this project is going to have a lot of authors," but much harder to actually get that concept working cohesively. People around here-- or anywhere-- tend to want to do their own thing. All other things equal (or even not-so-slightly unequal), most people would rather work on their own project than someone else's project.

On the topic of DSB, it's not that DSB is overtly a "single author" project by choice. Indeed, I would like to think of DSB as a "place where you can realize your ideas" as well. The community coding, feedback, testing, and debugging that has happened has been quite valuable, and DSB is a much better project because of it. However, people are only going to contribute what they can and want to, and nothing more; I still ended up doing most of the dirty work myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter or resentful about it, but I'm just stating the fact. I would have loved to have more community involvement in actual DSB development particularly in the task of creating an editor. Like I said, I'm not angry that most of that didn't materialize, but the fact is, it didn't. There were a few abortive efforts along the line, and they were intriguing in their own right, but when all was said and done, I had to sit down and make a DSB editor myself. And I did. Perhaps the presence of an editor will inspire someone to come up with their own next big idea, or perhaps I'll have to make the next big thing myself. I'm ok with it either way.

You'll probably find a similar experience. In the end, most of these small projects need a single main author, a sort of "benevolent dictator" overseeing the project, to provide a backbone and a vision. Occasionally, people will come along and throw little bits here and there into the cart, but you'll still have to be the one pushing the cart. Best of luck with your project. :)

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 2-Feb-10 20:32

Sophia wrote:It's a nice idea, but realistically, you're in for an uphill battle. It's easy to say "this project is going to have a lot of authors," but much harder to actually get that concept working cohesively. People around here-- or anywhere-- tend to want to do their own thing. All other things equal (or even not-so-slightly unequal), most people would rather work on their own project than someone else's project.
That is certainly correct. Everybody wants to create something what is his/hers only and be proud of it. Its our human nature. We can also postulate that most big things are not created by individual. I can live with fact that someone else is bigger than me.
Sophia wrote:On the topic of DSB, it's not that DSB is overtly a "single author" project by choice. Indeed, I would like to think of DSB as a "place where you can realize your ideas" as well. The community coding, feedback, testing, and debugging that has happened has been quite valuable, and DSB is a much better project because of it. However, people are only going to contribute what they can and want to, and nothing more; I still ended up doing most of the dirty work myself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter or resentful about it, but I'm just stating the fact. I would have loved to have more community involvement in actual DSB development particularly in the task of creating an editor. Like I said, I'm not angry that most of that didn't materialize, but the fact is, it didn't. There were a few abortive efforts along the line, and they were intriguing in their own right, but when all was said and done, I had to sit down and make a DSB editor myself. And I did. Perhaps the presence of an editor will inspire someone to come up with their own next big idea, or perhaps I'll have to make the next big thing myself. I'm ok with it either way.
I was looking when u start with DSB, lua was excelent choice from what I knew. Combined with C++. On the other hand i notice that there were only few who joined your spectacular quest. So far Im doing the almost same job.
Sophia wrote: You'll probably find a similar experience. In the end, most of these small projects need a single main author, a sort of "benevolent dictator" overseeing the project, to provide a backbone and a vision. Occasionally, people will come along and throw little bits here and there into the cart, but you'll still have to be the one pushing the cart. Best of luck with your project. :)
Actually I participated in project where original author was no longer part of project and code still continues to grow by another hand. So I think that it is possible. Maybe im wrong and ill find out. I think that good start code is something i can offer.
Sophia wrote: people are only going to contribute what they can and want to...
This is very common in open sourced projects. The contribution must not be harmfull to global consistency and then it is ok.

Thanks for your comments u archive something i was not capable yet....
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 3-Feb-10 21:27

Stairs and doors are now displaying corretly. Im working on pits.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/258/stairs.png
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/130/doorw.png
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 7-Feb-10 21:50

After a week i have some updates to infor u about.

- Effects have now support in editor
- Added item preferations
- If u click on portrait with item item will be putted into inventory.
- There is some logic in this
- For example here is how arrow is handled:

1) Look if in quiver slots is some container which can hold projectiles. If yes try to put arrow in it. If not then continue.
2) Look if in quiver slot is a space for an arrow. If yes try to put arrow in it. If not then continue.
3) Look if in ordinary inventory is a quiver. If yes try to put arrow in it. If yes try to put arrow in it. If not then continue.
4) Look if in ordinary inventory is a some sort of generic container(it accepts everything). If yes try to put arrow in it. If not then continue.
5) If yes try to put arrow in it. If not then continue.
6) Do nothing, keep item in hand.

This can be done for arrows, keys, ...

- Floor items can be now displayed

Here are some pictures:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1534/update1s.png
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6086/update2d.png
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5465/update3k.png
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4223/update4p.png
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4342
Joined: 29-Jun-00 22:53
Location: canada

Re: Deep Cave

Post by cowsmanaut » 8-Feb-10 00:52


User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 8-Feb-10 20:26

Hi,

as I once stated u realy are an artist. Thank u for this. My wife like it. "What a nice picture" she stated. Ill use it :)

Ill try to describe what feelings do I have from this.

My attention was attracted by walking pad. If I can ask for color variantions when i press specific direction. I think I see alpha color in there so for u is will be easier. If I think about color all it is now yellow, brown grey. If u hit a key for movement your eye should be attracted a little so I thing some form of glow or lighter color on specific arrow will be good? How do u feel it?

I do not know what to think about that skull. Generally i like the action pad. This amount of alpha when no action is possile. Less alpha more color in non violating tone when item with actions is equipped. I think I can handle this in photoshop by myself. All I Will need is the skull without that alpha squares. I can also create that parts which allows player to choose item action(bash, swing, etc)

Spellsheet. I can recreate it to correspond with wooden background. Runes can be colored by value in code so this is not a problem.

PlayerPanels. I like the plastic effect. Ill try to recreate same effect in spellsheet window. Where Im not sure is notifications(those small icons, informing about active effects(Not all active must have this icon active)). I do not expect mass use of those icons.

I expect use for notifications like this:
- u are poisoned
- u stand on dangerous tile
- countdowns...

How do u think it will look if this icons will be on same position on screen as now but not on wooden board. Whole wooden board will not be
so height as now. That icons will be on classic background and place for icons will be just darker?

Now I can see that blue color in that name is not that good as I thought. Ill make it lighter(same color as icon increasing strength)

Ill finish floor, wallobjects and create some playable techdemo. Actually i have this in actual revision(141) but i have only one wall object and it is displayed only in front of u.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4342
Joined: 29-Jun-00 22:53
Location: canada

Re: Deep Cave

Post by cowsmanaut » 8-Feb-10 22:19

the skull is just there to be visible when there is nothing in hand? but it can be moved somewhere else.. or removed.. I was just going based on your other interface images.. showing the action icons there as being greyed out almost.. I think maybe I'll replace them with something else.. metal and wood panels that can have the shape of the item in hand perhaps..

This interface was fast an easy to do.. and just because I was feeling sick but bored I decided to work on something that would distract me but not be too hard :P I'll make the little modification for you though.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 9-Feb-10 07:56

Small techdemo is realy needed. Ill work on it as fast as i can. :)
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4342
Joined: 29-Jun-00 22:53
Location: canada

Re: Deep Cave

Post by cowsmanaut » 10-Feb-10 03:46

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/ ... pcave3.jpg

send me an email and I'll send you the psd for this version with it all seperated.

my email is my user name here at gmail dot com

User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13078
Joined: 31-May-00 11:57
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Gambit37 » 10-Feb-10 09:50

I love the death skull, but I think those arrows are over fussy and not very usable; I think it would be better to simplify them -- there's too much empty space in the arrow shape and as a player I don't want to be made to think whether clicking the empty space will still register as a click on the arrow.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 10-Feb-10 09:57

Skull is awesome and also bars are improved. Ill try to combine version 1 and 2 of cows pictures.

Cows: Ill send u mail in the evening, i cannot acces my mail from my job(proxy problem)
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4342
Joined: 29-Jun-00 22:53
Location: canada

Re: Deep Cave

Post by cowsmanaut » 11-Feb-10 17:55

you forgot :P

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 11-Feb-10 19:30

cowsmanaut wrote:you forgot :P
no i didnt. ill check if i do everything corrrectly.

//Edit: I have mail in sent folder. We will find out.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 11-Feb-10 21:56

Current project progress:

- We can use objects in dungeon to manipulate other objects
( translation for normal people, u can open door with key )
- Im preparing techdemo for u to play with that (game and editor)
( expected next week )
( ill post whats worth trying )
( do not expect anything done :) )
- WallItems, FloorItems are now displayed. Screenshot: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/861/dc1.png

- After functional demo ill start to work on gfx posted here by cowsmanaut.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 15-Feb-10 18:19

I prepared a small demo for u. It is very small. My first goal is to create working game mechanics. There is still much to do and I know that. Here is list of what is working...

1) U can walk thru dungeon
2) Common dungeon gfx (it is not perfect but in general it works. Plan is to improve it to bugger depth)
3) Wallitems are woriking u can interact with them
4) Item preferences (keys goes directly on keyring, etc...)
5) Both door can be opened
6) There is a hidden teleport(this means i do not have gfx for it yet, but u'll notice sound)
7) U can test spell mechanics (spell is YA, GOR which creates two onyx keys)
8) Scroll have special effects which is healing u realy rapidly
9) Item can have different gfx based on conditions (see moneybox if it is equipped in hands)
10) Torch have effect for creating other torches
11) keyring contains some of my test garbage
12) editor is just for fun, lots of stuff is still hardcoded in test methods (u can play with that, but there is high possibility that u will brake it ;) )

What to do:
- On bluescreen just hit enter
- If u move to another window in windows and screen is blue hit esc.
- U are moving using WASD
- Two doors, one teleport, two keys, ...one keyhole is acting like a button...

Download:
Demo base on revision 188 - http://alric.dnh.sk/deepcave/rev_188.rar - cca 7MB
.NET framework 3.5
Microsoft XNA Framework

Credits:
Coding: me
Gfx: Cowsmanaut, Francois Munos, me
Last edited by Mystic_Unicorn on 19-Feb-10 21:16, edited 3 times in total.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 15-Feb-10 19:46

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Demo base on revision 188
Hi @all,

long time lurker coming out of hiding.

first let me say a thank you for all your efforts.

now on to topic: i can't get that thingy to run, even after installing XNA 3.0. When starting the demo, my pc does something for a few seconds, than a windows error-message appears, that the programm is having troubles and i only get one option: close it. no further information bout what is causing the problem appears. running windows 7 32-bit on laptop with 4gb ram, intel centrino core 2 duo t6400 and nvidia geforce 9600M GT. Deepcave-Editor is running fine.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 15-Feb-10 21:26

Maybe I have updated version of .NET(during windows update) - http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en .

I was able to simulate same problem on my other notebook. Ill let u know where is problem.

EDIT:: Aah so not the framework problem...
Last edited by Mystic_Unicorn on 15-Feb-10 21:53, edited 2 times in total.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 15-Feb-10 21:49

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Maybe I have updated version of .NET(during windows update)
As far as I know, Netframework 3.5 is already integral part of Windows 7. Other NET.Framework Verisons, including 3.0 are not meant for Windows 7 as far as Micrososft-Instructions go. I tried, dowloading and installing NET 3.5 manually, but the Full-Install unpacks and than nothing happens (I assume because of NET already being part of Windows 7). Windows-Update does not show any other NET-Updates, so I assume I already have the newest version. I will probably install a Virtual-PC running Windows XP and trying from there...Thanx for help.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 15-Feb-10 21:54

i think about one more problem, im checking it right now. I released debug versions....so if xna in redist is somehow diferent...
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 15-Feb-10 22:00

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:i think about one more problem, im checking it right now. I released debug versions....so if xna in redist is somehow diferent...
Ok. Just for your info: I have installed XNA 3.0 Redist and XNA 3.1 Redist (just to be an the safe side)...

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 15-Feb-10 22:10

I watch GAC and there are libraries missing ... which im using. Trying to install full package. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en). Ill tell u result.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 15-Feb-10 22:25

That solved problem on my side. Ill change link in demo post. Redist simple do not install all required libraries.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 16-Feb-10 10:23

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:That solved problem on my side. Ill change link in demo post. Redist simple do not install all required libraries.
Solved. Game is running. Testing after work. At first glance, it is looking really really good :-)

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 17-Feb-10 17:36

Some feedback from taking a look at the clone:

I especially like the grafix. Movement is very DM/EOB-like. Good that you are using step-movement. When playing, I cannot open the second door (but I didn't try that hard ;-). Obviously no monsters/combat implemented (yet) unless there are some behind the second door. The interface is generally good in handling. There is only one minor thing: I cannot figure out how the key ring with keys / quiver with arrows is working. Placing a key onto the key ring or arrow into quiver does not place them into the container. This has perhaps something to do with my second observation: placing hand-held items into a character's equipment slot or backback-slots is somewhat fiddly: if possible increase the drag and drop area of each slot, because as it stand now you have to (more or less) exactly place the object onto a specific area of the slot in order to put it in.

That's it for now. Keep on the good work.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 17-Feb-10 20:03

Thanks for feedback.

Key to second door is on keyring. Use second keyhole(onyx one). There is nothing behind them. Put a keyring into left hand it will open. The second think u notice is something i know about. Ill fix it.
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 17-Feb-10 20:52

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Thanks for feedback.

Key to second door is on keyring. Use second keyhole(onyx one). There is nothing behind them. Put a keyring into left hand it will open. The second think u notice is something i know about. Ill fix it.
I know it's perhaps too early to mention, but one more thing: could you possibly include the required game-libraries in the next build/demo, because you have to install the full xna package which in turn requires visual c# 2008 express (with a whopping 250 mb download)...no problem with my network connection, but i thought i just mention it so that others will be more "likely" to try the demo/game. some people may be "pissed off" if the are required to "make arrangements" prior to trying something other out. just a thought.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 17-Feb-10 21:21

U are right about that. I believed that instaling xna redist will be good enough. I reference only one library which need that bundle so ill try not to use it. I compiled new version where item behavior shoud be better. You mentioned that earlier.

Download:
Demo base on revision 196 - http://alric.dnh.sk/deepcave/rev_196.rar - cca 5MB

// EDIT::I was able to remove my reference to that dammed library....im testing in only on xna redist....
// Tested: Fixed, only redist of xna required...
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 18-Feb-10 21:17

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Tested: Fixed, only redist of xna required...
tested at home with only xna redist installed and :-/ sorry to disappoint you, but xna redist alone does not function. i get the "Deep cave no longer functions - close program error".

will try tomorrow at work on my other machine (where full xna and visial express is installed) to sort out what combination of xna redist / xna full and / or visual c express is needed.

User avatar
Mystic_Unicorn
Journeyman
Posts: 89
Joined: 14-Jul-02 13:00
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Mystic_Unicorn » 19-Feb-10 05:44

Is there anything logged in Windows event log?
Mystic Unicorn - Deep cave developer

User avatar
Beastman666
Journeyman
Posts: 70
Joined: 15-Feb-10 19:34

Re: Deep Cave

Post by Beastman666 » 19-Feb-10 17:29

Mystic_Unicorn wrote:Is there anything logged in Windows event log?
At Home with xna redist: Nothing logged in windows event logger. DC2010.exe does also not log anything in LogTest2.txt (programm stops before creating the LogTest2.txt). Editor creates the file and starts without problems.

At Work with full xna and visual express : DC2010.exe runs without problems, as does the editor.

Both systems run Windows 7 32-Bit.

Post Reply