[DSB] Unintended Heroism

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Sasha
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 25-Aug-12 19:14

Nothing happens when you click on apologize ?

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the master
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by the master » 25-Aug-12 19:43

No, not that I have noticed anyway. What is suppose to happen?

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by the master » 25-Aug-12 20:12

Is there a special way to kill the Phantom Scorpion? I have thrown around 50 maximum fireballs at it and it still doesn't die. Also whats this
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apple
that say
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banana

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Sasha
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 25-Aug-12 20:21

The scorpion is non material. This apple - banana is a joke , you may have found another one sooner on the dungeon . There is no special thing with it .

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by the master » 25-Aug-12 20:51

Yes I realised that just after I posted my thread. Should have read that it was a
SpoilerShow
phantom scorpion
. Okay I now have both wing keys but can't work out how to get out again upto the level that needs the 2 keys. There seems to be no way of getting there. I am not going to bother with the Angry Edge, do I really need to. By the way after I killed the scorpion I went through the teleporter. I have a feeling that the way out is through the 3 lever room that is full of Oitu but I do not know how to activate it.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 00:11

the master wrote:Yes I realised that just after I posted my thread. Should have read that it was a
SpoilerShow
phantom scorpion
. Okay I now have both wing keys but can't work out how to get out again upto the level that needs the 2 keys. There seems to be no way of getting there. I am not going to bother with the Angry Edge, do I really need to. By the way after I killed the scorpion I went through the teleporter. I have a feeling that the way out is through the 3 lever room that is full of Oitu but I do not know how to activate it.
When you kill the scorpion, behind the wall where the Ra key is, there's the teleporter which leads you to the beginning of the crypt, in front of the teleporter (the one which get you to the oitu room - you didn't see it when you first entered the crypt as you were inta-teleported, I just left it for people who forgot to kill the phantom scorpion :p) . Do not take this teleporter, just turn back and take the stairs to the winged keys level , the ones you used to get down on the crypt!
EDIT : and yeah, the screamer edge is not worth worrying about, you don't need it.
EDIT 2 : I checked, and, indeed, there's an error in the code which make this weapon useless. That worries me, I work on 3 different computers, that may explain the bugs (the code bug wasn't there in the latest versions ... :s ). Really sorry about that, I released the dungeon too early, it seems.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by beowuuf » 26-Aug-12 05:29

Given the bugs in AAA games that get released for money and need to be patched later, I think you've done enough due dilligence. Players can sometimes do crazy stuff anyway, no matter how much you think you tested. At least people are having fun and you are fixing the bugs :)

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 05:57

beowuuf wrote:Given the bugs in AAA games that get released for money and need to be patched later, I think you've done enough due dilligence. Players can sometimes do crazy stuff anyway, no matter how much you think you tested. At least people are having fun and you are fixing the bugs :)
Thanks for your kind words Beo :) It's just frustrating that tiny bugs may ruin something that you spent weeks on, and wanted to share with passionated peoples. Anyway, that was my first attempt to create a real dungeon ever (apart 1-2 hours spent on rtc, years ago...), not knowing anything about Lua . For sure, I learnt a lot from it, but I actually feel like people playing the dungeon are "beta testing" it, which makes me feeling disrespectful, so I have to apologize again.
I can't wait beginning another dungeon, without the "how the hell does it works?" part ! :P

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 07:10

Jan wrote: EDIT: I guess some processes linked to the "spell-row" keep running at the background. It seems that it all depends on how fast you solve the "spell-row" level - the faster you solve it (run around the monsters etc.) the faster the game runs after that. I think I still have a savegame from before that level.
I'll explain a bit further what's happening. Any spell cast (including the ones from monsters) in the area before the spell row are sent inside the spell row. That is why the area before is full of spellcaster mobs. The idea was to force the player to quickly melee-kill the monsters, so the spell row would not be overflowed with spell. However, the spells "fade" over the time, and when you actually got to the spell row, it was empty, because the spells cast by monsters are weak, and disappears from the row very quicly. So, to "simulate" a real spell capture, I set up a trigger at the entrance of the area, which activates a message sender, telling invisible shooters to shoot some spells, like every 10-15 seconds, so that there are still spells in the row. For unknown reasons, at some point, spells do not fade as they should do . I made some tests, and killed the message sender in-game (with the buggy savegames provided), to see if it was not the origin of the problem . The freezing still occured. Then , i summoned immortal rockpiles to "tank" the spells, and it worked : the message sender being killed, no new spell was shot by the invisible shooters. However, even without any of these new spells, the ones in the row wouldn't fade out. So, I assume that something, at some points, made the delta variable bug. I couldn't figure our what, alas ! May i have some precisions about how you dealt with this area ? did you cast spells, or sleep a lot, anything special ? Both you and the master had this issue, and I was not even able to reproduce it :oops: That's just a matter of curiosity, the actual version no longer includes the trigger/msg sender/spellshooter thing .
EDIT : By the way, the cross button that you have to push to leave the area was actually set up to destroy the message sender, and your savegame - after having pushed that button - was still really laggy, due to the amount of spells which would not fade out. I made a "special" spell in my own magic.lua, meant to spawn immortal rockpiles into the spell row, and after a few seconds, your game ran perfectly smooth.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by beowuuf » 26-Aug-12 07:25

Aren't there two versions of a spell power? One that doens't fade, and one that does? For example the fireball in the arena are in level 8 in DM would pretty quickly fade to nothing in that huge place, unless it was an overly powerful fireball - and even then I think the distance would reduce it to nothing. Instead it stays as a small fireball on all its course around.

Maybe DSB does that too - or shooters simply have a powerful version of the spell no matter what - so they persist.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 07:36

It must be something like this, indeed. During my tests, however, spells shot by shooters actually faded, but I may have misconfigured something (that's the more plausible) . Or maybe sleeping/saving affects the flying objects. When I tested it, I made it quite quickly without saving nor sleeping (with a boosted char) , and noticed no issue.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 07:37

My head hurts. :| :wink:
Sasha wrote:May i have some precisions about how you dealt with this area
I'm not sure if I remember it correctly:

Firstly, of course, I cast a few fireballs at the mobs in the room - it actually took me some time to realise something was wrong. So then I started luring the mobs to the entrance door, killing them there with fireballs / sword / door, occassionally daring into the room swinging my sword. I slept about 10 or 20 times in front of the room behind a closed door, never inside (the sound of spells on the background when sleeping always tended to become faster and faster - I suspect there were some mobs behind the door trying to "break through" the door with spells).

After about 10 minutes I became impatient and suspected there was something respawning the mobs in the room so I dared inside, evading the mosters chaotically and getting into a narrow corridor where I narrowly managed to kill a few beasts and got to the "spell row" door. I think it was only here when the game started slowing down - I'm not sure but I don't think I had had speed problems before that point. From here, I turned back to clear the main room "from behind", luring the mobs to the door to the "spell row" and killing them on the doorstep with spells or a sword. I finally cleared the area and turned my attention to the "spell row" - now the game was beginning to be really slow, so I casted a few shields, "ran" sluggishly around a bit in the row and then just go to the button and fell into the pit. At that point I thought the game somehow "fixed itself" because it became considerably faster, but no - the sound was screwed up and it started slowing down again when I encountered the screamers.

I don't know if that helps.
Sasha wrote:people playing the dungeon are "beta testing" it, which makes me feeling disrespectful, so I have to apologize again.
LOL, funny man, it's our pleasure and honour to play your dungeon, and we should thank you for making it for us! :D
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 08:00

Thanks for your answer Jan ! I'll try to figure out what happened. Hope your game will run fine by now !
Jan wrote:LOL, funny man, it's our pleasure and honour to play your dungeon, and we should thank you for making it for us!
You're a really nice pirate :) Thanks a lot.
SpoilerShow
I hope that you'll enjoy throwing food at high velocity to a stupid dragon !
PS : the master , I updated the download link-again- so the Screamer Edge works as intended. A priori , just running your savegames with the updated version should fix it.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 09:45

Two issues:

1. There seems to be something wrong with the
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Rives
- I was ambushed by about 10 of them in the
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Crypt
. I thought "alright, that's the end of me, I can just load my game" but to my big surprise they couldn't do more than 3 damage to me (3 HP!). It might be a DSB issue, I think I might have a similar problem in Chaos Hack.

2. When "apologising" to the
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Screamer Sword
I get an error message:

Code: Select all

INIT: Parsing configuration file
INIT: Using gamedir C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism (base:0)
INIT: Starting windowed mode
INIT: Using color depth of 32
INIT: Starting FMOD
INIT: Triple buffering unavailable or disabled.
LUA: Lua initialized
Parsing base/global.lua
Parsing base/graphics.lua
Parsing base/gui_info.lua
Parsing base/inventory_info.lua
Parsing base/util.lua
Parsing base/triggers.lua
Parsing base/conditions.lua
Parsing base/monster.lua
Parsing base/monster_ai.lua
Parsing base/methods.lua
Parsing base/damage.lua
Parsing base/xp.lua
Parsing base/magic.lua
Parsing base/msg_handlers.lua
Parsing base/hooks.lua
Parsing base/system.lua
Parsing base/render.lua
Parsing base/startup.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/startup.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/methods.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/magic.lua
Parsing base/objects.lua
OBJ: 405 system archs
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/objects.lua
OBJ: 452 total archs
DUNGEON: Attempting to load
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/dungeon.lua
LUA ERROR: C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/methods.lua:677: dsb_qswap requires int in param 1
LUA ERROR: C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/methods.lua:677: Invalid instance 0
SHUTDOWN: Shutting down...
(I hope I copied it right this time)

A question:

The
SpoilerShow
Banana "Apple"
, the
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"Super Screamer Slice"
and the
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"Screamer Sword"
are just fancy things that are not really needed in the game, right? I mean, they are good to rise levels and other things, but you don't really need them?

And the only purpose of the
SpoilerShow
"Screamer Sword"
is to summon
SpoilerShow
Screamers for training / food generation
- so there's no real need to do it, right?
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 14:19

I think there's a bug in the Room of Subtle Happiness. I went there once from level 3, once from level 7 (I think). I then got the two
SpoilerShow
Winged Keys
and wanted to refresh so I went there for the 2nd time from level 7 but I couldn't come back from that Room - the teleporter that was supposed to take me back to level 7 actually "took" me to only the Room of SH again. :!:
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 14:28

Another Room of SH related bug. I opened the
SpoilerShow
Winded Key
door, killed the
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Demon
behind and tried the Room of SH again. Now the teleporter from the Room worked but took me back to level THREE! I went back to the Room of SH and when I arrived got this error message:

Code: Select all

INIT: Parsing configuration file
INIT: Using gamedir C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism (base:0)
INIT: Starting windowed mode
INIT: Using color depth of 32
INIT: Starting FMOD
INIT: Triple buffering unavailable or disabled.
LUA: Lua initialized
Parsing base/global.lua
Parsing base/graphics.lua
Parsing base/gui_info.lua
Parsing base/inventory_info.lua
Parsing base/util.lua
Parsing base/triggers.lua
Parsing base/conditions.lua
Parsing base/monster.lua
Parsing base/monster_ai.lua
Parsing base/methods.lua
Parsing base/damage.lua
Parsing base/xp.lua
Parsing base/magic.lua
Parsing base/msg_handlers.lua
Parsing base/hooks.lua
Parsing base/system.lua
Parsing base/render.lua
Parsing base/startup.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/startup.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/methods.lua
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/magic.lua
Parsing base/objects.lua
OBJ: 405 system archs
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/objects.lua
OBJ: 452 total archs
DUNGEON: Attempting to load
Parsing C:\DM\DSB 0.53\UnintendedHeroism/dungeon.lua
LUA ERROR: base/triggers.lua:882: Invalid instance 314
SHUTDOWN: Shutting down...
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 14:34

Yeah. I noticed that issue which is corrected in the current version . Same for thé screamer edge ( it does not aCtually summons screamers , it just refreshes you a lot when hittting screamers with it ) , it should be fixed too . So you dont wanna use the seven lvl coinslot twice because your actual version makes it bug , but if you have the two winged keys , you will very soon be able to côme and go to this room as you wish ! Do not waste your gor coins !!

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 15:04

Three more technical notes:

1. The texts in the "Nebula library" disappear too fast, even if you pause the game (!) and cannot be viewed anymore. The only way to take notes is to copy-paste the screen into IrfanView. Perhaps you could make them visible longer / permanently on the given tile.

2. The text on the wall
SpoilerShow
behind the "library"
(evil / chaotic being...) says "edit me" - is that right?

3. I'm afraid that if someone used all his coins to get to the Room of SH, he might be trapped / unable to proceed because he can't open all that door to the "Library" - it might be a dead-end situation I think. Am I right? If yes, I suggest you find another way to open these doors because otherwise people would have to start all over!

Also, is the only point of using the
SpoilerShow
two gems
next to the library to unlock a
SpoilerShow
VI altar
? It's a little bit disappointing... :wink:
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 15:43

Alright, I'm finally stuck. I can't find the third
SpoilerShow
Key of B
- I got one from the
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"Greedy Row"
and one from the
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"Nebula library"
. Where's the third one?

I also can't open the "lightning" door on the same level. I've got a
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Demonic Stone
,
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Andromeda
and a
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Skeleton Key
(this one could be used in the Room of SH but I don't have any spare coins so I can't go there). Two unexplained messages are there, they're the key perhaps, but I can't find their meaning -
SpoilerShow
"Fresh Water - Friendship..."
and
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"Reverse spell..."
(which one? - I tried
SpoilerShow
ZoKathRa
but failed)

I tried a Monkey-Island-style "putting random objects in random alcoves" but failed. :roll:
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 15:46

Jan wrote:Three more technical notes:

1. The texts in the "Nebula library" disappear too fast, even if you pause the game (!) and cannot be viewed anymore. The only way to take notes is to copy-paste the screen into IrfanView. Perhaps you could make them visible longer / permanently on the given tile.

2. The text on the wall
SpoilerShow
behind the "library"
(evil / chaotic being...) says "edit me" - is that right?

3. I'm afraid that if someone used all his coins to get to the Room of SH, he might be trapped / unable to proceed because he can't open all that door to the "Library" - it might be a dead-end situation I think. Am I right? If yes, I suggest you find another way to open these doors because otherwise people would have to start all over!

Also, is the only point of using the
SpoilerShow
two gems
next to the library to unlock a
SpoilerShow
VI altar
? It's a little bit disappointing... :wink:
1) I'll try to think about a better way to do that, indeed
2)that's a mistake ^^*
3)You can get the coins later.
SpoilerShow
Stairs down, the door can be blasted by a special spell. Another stair down is a door which can be opened with the panacea - the panacea also has another function (the guardian of the panacea carried a scroll giving hints about that) .
The current version does not allow using more than 2 gor coins/game too
4)
SpoilerShow
before entering the astral forge, the golem guardian carries a special morningstar. The vi altar is the astral forge.
SpoilerShow
You're on the way to the "best" ending, you just jave to make a proper use of the astral forge, and find enough key of B ( you probably already have one, you'll have a second after doing the right thing with the astral forge, another lies stairs down, and the last , you can get with the proper use of the panacea

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 15:53

Two unexplained messages are there, they're the key perhaps, but I can't find their meaning - "Fresh Water - Friendship..." and "Reverse spell..."
SpoilerShow
These are hints for using the panacea. think of the meaning of each rune. you got to hold the panacea in hand.
The reverse spell is for using the demonic stone ...

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 16:01

PS :
SpoilerShow
Consuming the panacea to get the demonic stone is probably not a good idea if you had enough gor coins. Your objective yet is to use the forge, and open all the key of b doors.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by the master » 26-Aug-12 16:05

Is there any weapon or spells that are more effective on the Golems than others. I have been using lightning spells but they don't have much effect.

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 16:09

Sasha wrote:Consuming the panacea to get the demonic stone is probably not a good idea
Too late I'm afraid. The only thing I managed to do was that I put the
SpoilerShow
"morningstar"
in the alcove - and the only thing I got was a blue haze that cannot be entered. Nothing else changed as far as I can tell.

If you throw things into the haze they become "unreachable" because you cannot enter the haze - a way to get stuck I'm afraid.

I think I'm becoming a little bit rusty - what am I supposed to do? I didn't put the
SpoilerShow
"panacea"
(if this was the thing I used to open the door on the currently lowest level) in my hand and it's simply gone. I don't have the third Key of B and am pretty... lost. :?
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 16:12

the master wrote:Is there any weapon or spells that are more effective on the Golems than others. I have been using lightning spells but they don't have much effect.
Use your swords. Spells in general are not effective against golems - lightning bolt is the best one, but still does almost no damage. I'm using Dragon Feng and can kill the golem by about 10 to 30 "berzerks".
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 16:22

Jan wrote:If you throw things into the haze they become "unreachable" because you cannot enter the haze - a way to get stuck I'm afraid.
The library should have hinted you, but as you hadn't the time to read it ... :oops:
SpoilerShow
(the haze - forge needs a lightning bolt to be activated)
SpoilerShow
The panacea spell is vi bro ra, the demonic stone spell is vi bro gor. You could have got another key of B with the panacea, now you'll have to use the demonic stone

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 17:15

I think I'm not smart enough for that. I'm missing something important. I got the
SpoilerShow
Nebula
thing and that's about it (that's my fault - it WAS written in the "Library").

I still don't know what and where and how to do with the
SpoilerShow
Demonic Stone
or simply how to get the third key - where did you get those two spells? If I put the stone in my hand, there's nothing. The same applies to the Panacea from my previous save - there's nothing written on it. How do you suggest I cast
SpoilerShow
VI BRO GOR
when
SpoilerShow
BRO and GOR
are both the same level (form)?

I either need a more general direction as what to do, or more subtle hints, or a bigger brain. :(
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 17:29

I meant vi bro sar sorry :( thé dragon invoked when forgin nebula holds a key

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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Jan » 26-Aug-12 17:48

I figured this out instantly after my last post (trying all
SpoilerShow
VI BRO
XXX combinations). This led me to an area that can only be described as my worst nightmare - I don't think I encountered anything like that for a very looong time. After several instant deaths I managed to make some ground and clear a safe area - but I think I'll leave the "rest" for next weekend. I foresee hours of tough battles - a "mother of all battles".

Anyway, looking back I know that I'm playing too fast, not paying much attention to details and hints, but I feel that the player is left here a little bit "in the mist". It's quite hard, I think, to figure out how to:
- create the
SpoilerShow
"Nebula"
- cast the right spell - where was it written? Certainly not on the stone!

Oh, and I'm not carrying the
SpoilerShow
Nebula
with me now - I left it behind before casting the spell because it was too heavy. I hope I won't need it or I'll get crazy.
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Re: [DSB] Unintended Heroism

Post by Sasha » 26-Aug-12 18:01

I'll make a quick walktrough of chapter 3 to make it easier :
SpoilerShow
1)you open the winged keys door, get the panacea, with a scroll which gives hints about what spell is meant to be cast to use it : vi bro ra .
2)downstairs, with the appropriate number of gor coins, you can access the astral forge. There are three guardians there, 2 knights and one golem, each one holding a part of nebula, 2 gems and one morning star. you can activate the forge by putting the gems, then put the morningstar in the altar, then cast a lightning bolt on it to forge nebula (which is for the moment, much too hard to wield.)
3) on the same level, there are 4 key of b doors. One key is found behind a fake wall at the end of the "nebula history" thing. Another one is found on the dragon, spawned when you forge nebula. Another one is found downstairs, the door can be broken with a lightning bolt, a key of b lies in the dead end, in an alcove. With the three keys, you can access the last "key of b door", when you get there, you will be hinted that the last key lies in fact in level 3 , so you have to use the panacea (which teleports you to the room of subtle happiness when you cast vi bro ra, then teleport you back from the place you once were if you re-cast the spell) , and take the level 3 teleporter. Footprints have appeared, leading you to the last key.
4)once the last "key of b door" is opened, there's a mini boss to fight, (you'll have to bring nebula with you, even if you can't use it at the moment, as you'll have to show it to the "eye" next to the door. From there, it shall be rather linear.
5)If you did not have enough coins to access the forge, you'll have to use the demonic stone (vi bro sar) It brings you to a place where you can find 4 coins and a key of B, but that place can be hard to deal with . 2 mini boss are there , and 1 "medium" boss. One mini boss requires that you find a fakewall, and three switches to find him. For the other, It shouldn't be hard enough to figure out . After the medium boss you'll have a choice : directly end the game (the bad ending), or go back to the dungeon, with the key of B and the coins , and clear the place (forge, etc ...) which will then lead you (there will be an event at some point) to another part of the dungeon, leading to the "nice" ending.

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