Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Custom dungeons for RTC
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beowuuf
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by beowuuf »

Number 1 relies on number 2, and number 2 is the aim of most of the game!

3. Don't recall the alcove, you might need to combine something?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Adamo »

Thanx Beo! I though I need to open that door to obtain the keys to frre him.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by beowuuf »

Other way around :)
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Shawax »

Hi everybody,

I just finished Surgical Strike and decided to post a few comments, even if the game has already been played and replayed before :)

First of all, congratulations to Sophia for the impressive design quality and variety of riddles in the whole dungeon.

When I started playing, I must admit that I found Surgical Strike really difficult for several reasons:
- my 4 characters has been wounded quite early (in the shooting gallery ?) in the game but I spent a lot of time before founding a flask in order to cure them… and as a consequence, my characters were moving very slowly, which was rather boring
- I had trouble finding food, except for a few worm piece
- I didn’t succeed in solving immediately many of the riddle at the beginning of the game. In addition with, I found it hard to understanding the global design of the dungeon (I did not draw any map because it’s not my style of playing: I consider a dungeon is too complex if you do need to draw a map in order to explore it) and I lost my way several times, so I was somewhat discouraged

Therefore, I nearly gave up. But then I remembered that when I played CSB (a long time ago!), I had exactly the same feeling. So I went on and finally found the first pieces which enabled me to progress.

Finally, I went through the game and enjoyed it as a whole, even if:
- I was not able to solve some riddles without reading the posts on the forum (4 alcoves riddle, lost corridor, magic scroll riddle, “open your mind”)
- Some questions remain: were is the Ra key? Were can you find the riddle with the cats (I never saw it)? What does the spell “Zo Ven” do? I don’t notice anything happen when casting it
- Some doors remained closed (and especially a black one: what has to be done in order to open it?). Moreover I could have opened some more iron doors if I had enough iron keys. I understood that it was possible to get extra iron keys but don’t understand exactly how (I think I got some element required for that)
- I also pressed some buttons but without understanding what they do (especially while opening my mind)
- What are the alternatives ending I heard about?

I also got some problems because I played with RTC 0.49 (when I read the posts concerning the version of RTC to use, it was too late and I did not want to restart): some monsters (especially red scorpions and green oitus) could attack me from a long range (but I just considered this as an extra-difficulty of the game :). And there is also the known problem about the bad-oriented door (which can nevertheless be passed from another way).

As I said, I finally enjoyed playing Surgical Strike. This was the third custom dungeon I was playing (after Towers of Chaos and Dark Reign) and this time, I had more troubles solving riddles or finding my way than fighting monsters. This seems to be logical because Surgical Strike is not linear at all. I especially appreciated some new riddles/features/items, such as ejector seat, several secret areas, ven spawning chamber, magic boulder, vorpal arrow, north star, and so many others…

Thanks again for the game Sophia and if you make another one, please let me know :)
Last edited by Shawax on Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Adamo »

hahaha, that`s good you`ve passed this game, Shawax! :) yeah, I have to give it another try! I played that, but with unproper version of RTC, which I found much later, maybe in the middle of the game!!! Unproper RTC version caused several bugs, like creatures range attacks (I don`t remember eactly, but imagine for example worms biting you from 3 tiles away). I don`t want 3-tiles-away biting creatures again ;)
But the biggest disadvantage was level sizes and labirynth complexity; I lost abolutely several times in the dungeon (but, on the other side, that`s the beauty of old school DM games!) so-it`s good! :)
But it was a very good game. I also tried Dark Portal, but like SS more. This is really very good (thanx Sophia!), but next time I will try to make some maps. Or I`ll try to bribe Sophia that she would send me some maps on my email ;)
Thanks again for the game Sophia and if you make another one, please let me know
Sophia made also Dark Portal, check out this thread:
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 31&t=23916
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Sophia »

Thank you for the kind reviews. :)
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by bfboba »

Hi I'm a newby here (DM forum), and it's great to create new dungeon, and this one is excellent !! :mrgreen: ,... and now I'm stuck here at "prime" room.

I tried many codes... but no effect.

I think I have to pull on the ground 1,2,3,5 etc arrows for each row but it doesn't work.

Q1 ; How many items do I need ? 6 ?

I tried this combination in many ways0... stuck (
- X X -
X - X -
- - X -
X - - -

Any hint for me ?

Thx

Boba



===> :idea: Yyeah ok, I found the combination !
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beowuuf
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by beowuuf »

Glad you managed it in the end!
Was unable to (permenantly) kill off ian_scho (Haynuus), Ameena, oh_brother (Westian), money (Falkor), raixel (Petal) and Lord_Bones (Aurek) in the DM D&D game Time's Champions!

CONGRATULATIONS TO THOSE WHO MADE THE GAME WHAT IT WAS - GREAT!
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by bfboba »

Okay... so; now I miss an iron key to go behind that door... (near turquoise doors), and I'm stuck in front of Venom project's door....

Help ! need a hint !

:?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by bfboba »

No one can help me ? ... :|
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Gambit37
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

It's been 3 years since I played this dungeon and I can't remember those sorts of details, sorry.
Hopefully, someone else can help :)
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Sophia »

I made the dungeon and even I don't remember. :oops:

What I do remember is that the Venom Project will be opened for you once you've
Spoiler
gotten all the master keys and freed the blue dragons
.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by bfboba »

Sophia wrote:I made the dungeon and even I don't remember. :oops:

What I do remember is that the Venom Project will be opened for you once you've
Spoiler
gotten all the master keys and freed the blue dragons
.

Thx, 1 master left, I know where to go (1door still closed) but no idea to open it... and one magic spider behind. Damned :evil: !!

PS: helion necklace is fun !
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by bfboba »

I everybody !

It's done !!!!!!!!!

I finished it ! with hellion... :wink: and without :P

It was a pleasure to walk in this dungeon, Sophia you're great, thanks a lot, I spent many hours, killed a lot of monsters, and think too much to find the clue :mrgreen:

Now I'll try another dungeon built by you !

Thx
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Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by PicturesInTheDark »

Reviewer: PicturesInTheDark
Custom dungeon reviewed: Surgical Strike v2.2
Link: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsBu7boYHQokbYK3rjKY0b5_ra8

For what it’s worth these days I still feel that after playing a custom dungeon (at least one that I finished) I owe the producer at least a review in terms of gratitude and for their efforts. While I’m pretty certain I was one of the first to post reviews here and at least helped develop the rating system used, I will deviate a little at times to acknowledge a specific aspects that I feel should be recognized. To that end I will sacrifice the “size” category which is ambivalent at best anyway (what do I rate here? Are larger dungeons better by definition?). Since I’m not sure who will be reading this anyway besides Sophia, I’ll just warn of spoilers once (done) and try to use huge spoilers sparsely instead of hiding various text parts. Here we go…

Gameplay: 9
One of the great strengths of both of the author’s dungeons I’ve played so far (Reactor and Surgical Strike) – it was immense fun to journey through both at nearly all times because of the balance of the games. To pick just a few examples: there may be more original dungeons, there certainly are larger ones (see above) and I have also seen serious re-invention of graphics on a larger scale than here, but the little things that define the atmosphere and your emotional well-being as a player (good distribution of food and water, proper use of various monster strengths, balance of fights as well as exploration and riddles, good scale of difficulty of secrets and riddles and finally satisfactory development of the progress of the story and the party) are in superb balance throughout and have caused me to immediately revisit after the initial playthrough, yearning to find the things I missed previously.

Originality: 9
There are loads of functional experiments in here (e.g. Ejector seat, restricted use of magic area, Corbamite Energizing Facility, quickly alternating keyholes at the same wall tile, Open your mind, new spells, Gigagiggler, Chocolate Screamers, Tower Security system, The Lost Corridor and Dungeon Dance Revolution to name just some of them) - not all of them feel “complete” but each added to enhancing the atmosphere, enjoyment and replayability of the dungeon. So in short: great value for zero price even for veteran players.

Difficulty: 8
Quite a good balance. There is plenty of time to develop your party and you can go in using both resurrected as well as reincarnated characters. While there may be stronger and weaker heroes, none of them cripple your party or make them invincible. There certainly are challenging parts, but depending more on your brains than the quickness of your fingers or the levels of your party members, which I always feel is a good sign – I could never understand the point in constantly having to slaughter hordes of monsters and to this day feel sort of robbed of my pleasure when this is all (or most) of what is expected of my heroes. Some areas could do with a little polishing, for example the endlessly respawning rock piles in the Corbamite Mines / Nightmare were getting a little tedious after a while. The whole game can certainly be played through with the first party and without prior knowledge if you are careful (and sometimes lucky) enough – again, a good sign from my point of view.

Puzzles: 8
Another definite strength of the author, maybe even the main distinguishing feature. I debated with myself over the rating here and decided for an 8 because I feel that although there are a large number of fascinating and varied puzzles of all shapes and sizes, some of them could have been a little more polished or laid out a little differently with even more effect (e.g. the certainly amazingly crafted Corbamite Energizing Facility: I was missing any kind of hint that the Amalgams need to be activated at the same time – “Missing spaces” was also a little too much for my taste especially since the reward was comparatively miniscule). I deeply enjoyed (in no particular order) the Alchemy Academy, the (second) Cross key riddle in the Corbamite Mines, The Nightmare, Corridor of Venom, Altar of Sar area, No fear, the four riddles leading to the Altar of pain, Ore storage, Do something stupid and (I’m sure) others I have not mentioned here.

Wits/Humor: 10
As stated above, I have sacrificed the “size” category for this. Several puzzles, items and texts used decidedly made me chuckle and sometimes even laugh outright, which warrants a standalone mention in my books. Some of the more memorable ones were: Mophus’ 3rd skill (for which I never found a “use” but enjoyed it anyway), the (very useful) magic boulder, the “alternate” solution for the “Club members only” riddle, the Gigagiggler, the comment when trying to create a Ven potion, “Supplies for the slow” and the simple “As you were” in the “Magic use restricted” area. However, there are 2 that deserve specific mention in my book: The Lost corridor and Dungeon dance revolution and despite my initial statement I’ll warn again of spoilers here since I need to go into more detail for explaining my reasoning. TLC is simply a beauty – discovering it is already quite a challenge and you may simply leave it there and never go beyond this stage – something that most certainly would have happened to me since I never owned the Amiga original and would have stood no chance on solving this very clever and beautiful riddle. But discovering the full extent after a nudge by the author this left me open-mouthed. DDR on the other hand was probably the most surprising, funny and original “puzzle” I have ever come across in my 30+ years of playing DM and its various clones and custom successors – while certainly not in a league with e.g. the multi-layered cleverness of TLC or the difficulty of various puzzles here and in other dungeons, it was so unexpected and hilarious that this alone warrants a 10 in this category for me.

Replayability: 8
I have mentioned above that I was compelled to restart the dungeon right after the initial (successful) playthrough and I have done so several more times to experiment with different characters and/or to explore missing secrets and other areas. Once you have done this to your satisfaction, you may need to take a break for a while, as of course the fun is reduced once you are aware of all or most of the secrets, monsters, puzzles and so on – after all, DM never was an open world game which by definition has many more possibilities in this regard. However, since I was not satisfied until having found at least all of the secrets and revisited various neglected areas, this leaves me feeling the designer did a very good job in hooking me in.

Craft: 8
I am aware of Tower of Chaos (since a few weeks) and obviously of Conflux (although in an older version than) and there is no point comparing the immense efforts undertaken to create both to “regular” custom dungeons; however: I feel this should by no means diminish what other designers including Sophia have achieved without (probably) giving up the rest of their lives for a couple of years. I’ll keep this brief and simply point to other areas (Gameplay, Originality, Puzzles) already describing the riches that have been newly created for this dungeon. From what I can say from an amateur standpoint, several of the mechanics used here (Corbamite Energizing Facility, Open your mind, Ejector seat) more than warrant the rating given. Also as a player I decidedly enjoy the complete lack of dead ends (as far as I can tell), at least in the main storyline (there are a couple of secrets you cannot reach after a certain point).

Game Ending: 7
I liked the “regular” ending – on the one hand the fight may be over pretty soon if you are well-prepared beforehand and quick enough to execute. On the other hand, if you are not you’ll pay the price and do so several times most likely. I also found it quite a nice touch that the Slime monsters did not simply vanish once Chaos was dead but still had to be dealt with. The “Elements” ending was a bit obvious, but the fights beforehand I quite enjoyed (with a pretty senior party admittedly), and it did fit into the theme of the game overall. The third (Hellion) ending I never experienced unfortunately; either due to a bug or some actions I did not do correctly; but as I have a pretty good idea of what it would be like, I’ll also rate this as sound within the game setting. There was nothing extremely special about the endings, but they were thought out well, so that’s the main reasoning for my rating.

Atmosphere: 7
This may be one of the few areas where completely overhauled dungeons shine more than others as more-or-less totally new graphics, sounds and abilities obviously are fascinating and anything unknown tends to keep you on your toes. So while plenty of the general dungeon layout and mechanics is “known” in this case, I still felt quite challenged or even felt forced to be extremely cautious at times (best example: the simple change of the color of some of the scorpions led me to avoid any infight with them at all times – in several playthroughs I never even got hit by one of them. Why this was triggered by a palette change I will probably never know) and I also definitely enjoyed the balance between exploration, tension, fun and good ol’ fights.

Overall: 7.4
If I had to give a single rating, I would more likely have chosen an 8 here, but all in all I am quite happy with the average of the values above. This dungeon has a great design, is enjoyable (for multiple times), has been thought-out very thoroughly and includes several different demands and challenges for every kind of player. Moreover it has certain very individual properties like great humor (see above), elegant puzzles that in a few cases even are of exceptional beauty and a rare overall balance through all layers of the game experience.

Best part: Probably Dungeon Dance Revolution, as explained above in more detail. I can’t remember being so shell-shocked and amused at the same time in any dungeon before. The Lost Corridor for its overall concept and beauty.

Worst part: The joy of the artful Corbamite Energizing Facility was severely diminished in my eyes for providing no clue that I know of about the imperative synchronicity of events. I already mentioned the pestilent rock piles that did not stop spawning so I simply reduced my visits of this area as much as possible.

As a summary, I would say that Surgical Strike was one of the most enjoyable and well-designed custom dungeons I have ever played. While improvements are certainly conceivable (polishing of the story, enrichment of graphics, enhancement/broadening of the dungeon itself to prolong and intensify the experience, add more explorative elements/layers), I felt well at home and certainly entertained most of the time. While sometimes having to chase up and down to find a certain key, you could always be sure that there would be a way to go on if you kept digging. You also have all options to choose the playing style you prefer (direct vs. cautious approach; goal-driven vs. leveling your heroes before tackling certain areas) which I quite prefer to being harassed all the time by having to look for the next snack for my party leader or searching for that damn Ir rune to be finally able to produce a fireball. Well done indeed and thank you very much Sophia for kindly giving me a nudge or two when I was out of ideas for some of your better-hidden secrets and advice was quite needed.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by luke41 »

Hi,
I enjoy playing Surgical Strike (2.1), and several times I was "almost 200% stuck" and thought about consulting the forum, but then after some time I got the answer or the solution myself (except the "One and one..."-riddle). But now I am really stuck, I think.

I already got 4 master keys, released the blue dragons, and came thru the Venom Project until the place with Chaos who produces a lot of green creatures. But there I have no clue how to kill him: my flux-generator can only "FLUX CAGE", other weapons dont work on Lord Chaos (Zo Bomb, Fire Skull, Spirit-sword). So I assume I have to combine the flux-generator with an additional item - but unlike original DM I found so far neither a gem nor a place to put it in.
Well, in one alcove I got a hint that "Primal elemental power controls all" -- but no idea what it can be (it is neither a VI- nor a YA-potion). I discovered that both ZO KATH RA and YA KATH SAR, if held in a hand, can "MERGE" - but with what? When I merge both of them there is an explosion which almost kills me..

Hunting Lord Chaos into a place he cannot escape with a horn is not a good idea either - he does not disappear (run away from the room) and kills me.

Maybe I need something from the "Lost corridor" or a place with the "cats"-riddle (I could not find any of them, only the fake lock and door to the corridor, just read here these places exists)?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Ian Clark »

I have finally got round to playing this after all these years. I am quite impressed with the new items and the CSB-like atmosphere/layout.

I was hoping someone may be able to help; I have got 3 Master Keys from the furnace, tower and nightmare. However, I believe I need another Topaz Key to enter the mines. There is an alcove hidden behind a wall in the Altar of Pain room which contains a key (most likely the one I am after). However, I cannot remove the wall. Does anyone know how?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by agarules »

Stuck. Please help. I found the bones, the scroll and the flask. Read the scroll and cast the spell, hoping that it would open the door.
You said:
You should read it line-by-line.
Not Zo
Kath
Not Ra

What's not zo, kath, and not ra? Think about what the runes mean.

What do I need to do? Or do I need another item?
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Sophia »

You need to cast the proper spell. In this case, the spell is not zo, kath, not ra. Zo and ra are runes that have very clear "opposites." What are they?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by agarules »

I just downloaded the Dungeon Master manual and looked at what each rune meant and in some cases it's very opposite. I had Dungeon Master on my Atari St and then Amiga but don't have them any more. Wish I'd kept them. Long time ago. Anyway, cast the spell and the door opened.

Many thanks, Sophia.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by jahmiann »

hi

I restarted several times this dungeon , but i am unable to find the bonesplitter (it's a crossbow where you can load sevral slayer). I know there is a random distribute of stuff when starting the dungeon, maybe i get some luck because i get this weapon onetime. If i can have some glue it shoul dbe welcome.

The second area where i am stuck is "the lost corridor", i didn't find a way to open there.
Spoiler
I tried :
A lots of combinaisons of 4 pads starting the zone, to have a straight corridor in the door alignment ?
Does those pads are only trigger by party or can be trigger by monsters ?
Put a item in the aclove near the door ..
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

The Lost Corridor is a great little puzzle. Where might you have seen this place before?
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jahmiann
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by jahmiann »

I saw similar door give access to the tower, and door to open with torquoise key. But those both doors don't have iron key lock
Spoiler
I alrady used all my torqoise key , and i try to put the crown in the alove
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Gambit37
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

This corridor also exists somewhere else, somewhere outside of the game. Where does it exist...? You might need to know some Dungeon Master history to answer this. Perhaps go looking elsewhere...
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jahmiann
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by jahmiann »

Do you talk about the first dungeon master dungeon or the novel based on dungeon master ?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

The first dungeon master :)
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jahmiann
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by jahmiann »

i searched using the editor there are "ornate wooden door" in 3 levels but there are no located in a narrow corridor.
Spoiler
2 doors at the level 5, can be open using iron key => i have no iron key left
4 doors in the firestaff tomb, can be open using torquoise key => i have no torquois key left
1 doors at the level 11, can be open using a big switch => i didn't big switch in the zone
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

No that's not it... here's your final clue: Have you ever seen the box that Dungeon Master was packaged in?
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by jahmiann »

Thx i found the picture (thx internet)
Spoiler
There are only two identical point the door and the grate.
On the DM box there is torch sconce and a torch used as a lever and the woman mage seems to cast a spell.
In surgical strike, there is not torch or torch sconce, there is fountain.
I try cast zo without success
I try to use a torch on the lock, the fountain, the alcove and the demon head, door still closed
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Re: Surgical Strike *Spoilers*

Post by Gambit37 »

Maybe look at the floor? :)
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