Towers of Chaos (old discussion thread)

Custom dungeons for CSBWin. Includes all Confux 2 and 3 discussions.

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Gambit37
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Gambit37 »

Towers of Chaos doesn't work with RTC, it's for CSBWin only. You need CSBuild as Jan stated.
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Lai »

yes, i understand that i have to use the csbuild if i want to have a look @ the towers..
but i dont use it building my own dungeons cause i like the rtceditor...
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PaulH
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

RTC and CSBWin are two totally different formats.
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Gambit37
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Gambit37 »

Yes, as Paul says, the two formats are completely incompatible. It would be like trying to open a PhotoShop document in Microsoft Word: it can't be done.
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Towers of Chaos : close to the end ?

Post by Shawax »

Hi everybody,

First of all, I would like to congratulate Paul H for its great game "Tower Of Chaos", which I started to play a few weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I am stuck and don't know what to do. I guess I am not far from the end since I can see Chaos, Lord Order and the grey lord (who gave me interesting items :wink: ). But :
- I can't solve the riddle with lyte and dark protections (I should have missed something because corbums and zokathra spells don't seem to be useful here),
- I found some actuators on the level under the room with the grey lord, but I dont know their role
- I also remember 2 doors which I was not able to open through my way (the first one next to the "hang the bras to dry" message, the other one at the beggining of the level with red water elementals and scorpions, juste after solving the 2 mirrors riddle and going downstairs (I opened the left door at the end of the path when you arrive from the stairs, but the right one is still closed).

Thanks a lot for any clue.
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PaulH
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

Ah the two doors give you the items you require for the darc and lyte puzzle - they are opened by buttons on a pillar at the end of the level. You must have pressed one - look for another ;-)

The bra message was a fun puzzle I added that gives you a non essential item.
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Shawax »

Thank you for the clue. I was absolutely certain to have already pressed the two buttons but... this was indeed not the case ;). As I guessed, I was really close to the end.

Congratulations again Paul for the whole dungeon, which I consider as a nice new opus of DM and CSB (same feeling and atmosphere while playing, really good and original new features/puzzles, sometimes hard riddles but never impossible, and often with jokes and humour...) !

This was the first clone I tried to play, several years after completing DM and CSB on Atari ST.

Now it is time for me to try another clone : if anybody could advise me a good one (which means, to me, "close to the spirit of DM, CSB... and TOC"), please don't hesitate !
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by beowuuf »

Hmm, Tower of Chaos is indeed a great 'close to DM' feeling dungeon while being. Others I might recommend are great for their differences or are much smaller in scope (or just older so perhaps too close to DM)...

I think Surgical Strike has a great combination of new and old. Look out for the warnings on the RTC engine you need to run it under, but otherwise I think go for that one.

I would say while it is different in many ways, another ToC (Tower of Champions) seems to be getting alot of appreciation. You could do worse than checking it out once 3.3 is rleeased.
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After Towers of Chaos

Post by Shawax »

Thanks a lot for the hint beowuuf. I will go for "Surgical Strike" in a few days (and then "Tower of Champions", probably later).

Anyway, could you please tell me which dungeons were you thinking about when you mentionned "older so perhaps too close to DM" dungeons ?

Special post for PaulH: it is probably useless now since "Towers of Chaos" has been released (and experienced) for several years, but if you want, I could send you my detailed opinion about it (where I was stuck for a long time, parts of the dungeon I appreciated or not, ...). Think twice before asnwering "OK" because my opinion could be difficult to read, due to my poor English ;)
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by beowuuf »

Grave of King Filias, Tomb of the Firestaff, Parlous are old ones. I get confused now, but some of the old ones do rejig the original dungeon more than create a new one.

Oh, Black Flame is another PaulH dungeon - might be worth checking out! And the two LMB dungeons I recall being fun if short. They were released under PC DM, but to convert those dungeons just open them in CSBuild, say yes to anything referencing reading in a different endian, then resave :)


And feel free to post your opinion/review out in the wild if you like :D
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

Thankyou for playing and your kind words.

It is an old dungeon, and has gone through some changes over time, from being created with the very limited PC engine, through to conversion to CSBWin, then using the additional power that was developed for it ie extra walls, DSAs. Due to its roots though I think it does maintain that original feel but with a fresh feel.

As above, feel free to palce a review here and opinions!
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Re: After Towers of Chaos

Post by Jan »

Shawax wrote:Anyway, could you please tell me which dungeons were you thinking about when you mentionned "older so perhaps too close to DM" dungeons ?
Black Flame for CSBWin by PaulH, Imprisoned Again v1.5 for CSBWin by Sucinum, and Dark Reign for RTC by Saumun - the last one is more recent, but I think close to DM / CSB (and has lots of switches...). :)
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by beowuuf »

Hmm, I keep thinking of Imprisoned Again as being more combat oriented (hence great for their differences) but yeah, there are puzzles and alot of them were adapted DM/CSB ones.... so that's a good one.

Forgot about Dark Reign... trying ot remember it now, but seem to recall it was ok too :)
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Jan »

beowuuf wrote:Forgot about Dark Reign... trying ot remember it now, but seem to recall it was ok too :)
Spoiler
Switches, eight skeleton keys - one per each level, switches, quickly regenerating monsters, switches, blood-key level, and, of course, switches.
:wink: An excellent "dungeon from a newbie". :)
Finally playing and immensely enjoying the awesome Thimbleweed Park-a-reno!
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by beowuuf »

I remember the switches - RA keys needed for the very end, yes?
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Shawax »

Hi everybody,

As promised, it’s time for me to post a feedback on playing Towers Of Chaos. Please keep in mind that this was the first clone I have ever played, several years after completing DM and CSB: as a consequence, my comments could lack of comparisons aspects. Please apologize for my poor English and also because my comments might not be well structured :). Finally, I hope I didn’t reveal too many things of the game while posting this comment.

First of all, I played TOC with four characters (Chani, Sonja, Wuuf, Darooo), all being reincarnated, as I used to do in DM and CSB.

Hence, it was a bit hard to start the game (because the characters were not able to do many things, as you can imagine). Maybe it could have been easier with resurrected characters, but as a whole, I found that some places were quite hard to complete at the beginning of the game (the first flying eyes, the reading room …). I did not try to face Chaos very long, but it was somewhat nice to see him rather early in the game :)

One of the worst « fight » parts was the cavern (with Oitus, a golem and a poison thrower) which stands in front of the towers. It was really really hard for me to complete that place with so weak characters. Besides, I received a « Maybe we should return with more firepower » message while entering the cavern. I don’t know if this is an automatic message but if someone can explain it to me… Anyway, it could be interesting to prevent a team from entering this area before completing others stuffs, which is not the case at that time (you can nearly enter this area at the beginning of the game).

I was stuck for a long time before succeeding in opening the market place door (I just thought I had donated enough things to the church!). But I think this is ok because the solution is located in a small part of the dungeon so normally you can’t miss it.

I was stuck a really long time before understanding how I could enter the blue tower. I nearly entered the wild wood with… luck. And it is true that, sometimes, luck enabled me to advance through the dungeon: in “fast and furious” place, and also at the place where, after entering a teleport, you get locked between four grid gates (I think I was lucky because I did not stay stuck at that place, but while reading the former posts, I can see that there is something special to do in order to escape and I can’t remember me doing it on purpose). And I can also remember a place with a riddle consisting in pits, teleports and something to throw where I found the solution with luck.

I was also stuck for a long time at « surgical precision » just because I did not really explore the whole « fast and furious » way. After completing that, the solution was obvious!

I also lost some time looking for the solution to the riddle where you have opening and closing pits: I found quite quickly the hidden path and the button but… I didn’t notice exactly what the button did (I only noticed half of what it did!)

Finally, I was stuck at the end (looking for protections riddle) just because I was not careful enough: I was certain to have pressed the two eyes opening the two doors leading to the solution, but I only pressed one…

Global remarks on the dungeon:
- As I said, I would pay for game start a little easier, especially for neophytes (players or characters :). The difficulty of the rest of the game is ok,
- I think it is rather well designed and divided into parts (sometimes you get lost but, after a certain time, you know approximately where you are). The teleports which enable to go back to some places were well appreciated ;). The size of the dungeon is probably good as I spent approximately the same time playing TOC as for CSB. In addition with that, I think the “linearity” of the dungeon is rather ok. And I never had to draw a map, which I don’t like (I think it’s less fun to play a dungeon if you do need to make a map in order to have a chance ton understand it). The only time I had to write things down is while exploring the place with all the teleports.
- The village has nice features, such as “double your money”, “the reading room”, and the church also. The forest is also a nice place (I did not play DM 2 so it was brand new for me) even if I tended to lose my way many times while going through it (because I wanted to be certain not to miss something before advancing the game). I also appreciated new wall papers :)
- Places or things I especially enjoyed: the fast and the furious, sacrify a team member, Zo Ful Ir, the KU way (as a whole and in particular, the final place with regenerating knights), the place where you buy objects with coins but not too many…unless you need to be warmed
- Nice additional stuffs: riddles (new one or renewed ones, ways you are not able to go through but which enables you to get extra-bonus…
- And other things that make me angry while thinking and that makes me laugh after understanding the reality: the false clues (Librasulus gift, corbums/zokathra…), things that looks more and less useful and that turns out to be the opposite (Gor potion, choker…), and of course, riddles which make me become crazy and whose solution is obvious when I discovered it !
- The level with the 4 skeleton keys is quite difficult (at least at the beginning where you are attacked by several monsters) but it is feasible if you manage to fight monsters one by one. However, I think that if you are unlucky or if you don’t care enough, you can die here. But, after all, this is nearly the end so it is normal that you have to face some dangerous situations at that time
- At the end, I did not like the invisible pits. Similarly, I did not enjoy the room (in the blue tower?) where some invisible stones teleport you back to the beginning of the level (with several pits).
- I clearly did not lack food during all my way through the dungeon but I think that the game has evolved since the first post I read. And especially because I found a quite good training area near the village (which enabled me to feed my characters while training them a little).
- A Little remark concerning the objects you can found through your path: I think that you could find less objects (even though it’s always cool to find something wile exploring the dungeon). Indeed, at the end of the game, I had plenty of weapons, armours, wands … and did not know what to do with them. However, at the beginning of the game, you don’t fin many things to wear.

Some bug to fix (?):
- At the place you have to use lockpics, it is possible to use 2 lockpicks (which is not useful).
- At the same place, when you cast a fire ball through an invisible teleport, if you enter the teleport (even 20 seconds after casting the fireball), you take the fireball in your face :)
- Generally speaking, it could be interesting to prevent people from using twice the same object on a single place: for example, you can also use (and lost…) twice the same object at the bridge.
- Some actuators (at then end of the game) don’t move (even if they do trigger something), even if you pull/push them. Just a display bug?

And now, a few questions:
- What does the jade key aims at (philosophically speaking, I mean, cause I found the door to open with)? Is it for enabling to choose additional characters if you started the game with an uncompleted team? Or Did I miss something?
- « Hang the bras to dry »: I hung, heard something happened but did not understand what. Did it open a wall which enables, further, to open the closed door next to the message?


Thanks a lot for designing the game, Paul, and see you on later posts, when I finish another clone. If you need me to clarify some of my comments, just let me know!
Last edited by Shawax on Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

Many thanks for the comments! It has been a while since I have played, I hope I can remember the parts myself ;-)

I think in general the dungeon plays better with two people and some training, and 4 could be weak in places. The cavern was an area that reflected this - the message was a hint to come back when you have more levels as there were other parts that could be completed first. Basically was to add some variety to the order.

I agree the end is the weak point. I could redesign it, but as the dungeon started on DMPC it will always go back to the basic 'fuse chaos' principle so I tried to make the level a challenge with the pits.

The jade key was indeed a way to get back for more champions but in hindsight more champions in the game may have worked better.

I shall check the bugs out and non nulled actuators (and switches that don't move!)

Seems a few are playing this oldie again so is probably worth updating!

Again many thanks!
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Gambit37 »

Coo, I just realised I never played this! Will have to have a go some time -- I have Jury service starting next week, wonder if they'd notice me playing it on a portable? ;)
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

Lol, well give me a few days to update, and I hope you'll enjoy ;-)
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by Gambit37 »

Actually, I don't have a portable -- but it was a nice little fantasy I had in my head:

Judge: "Jury, can we have your verdict. Do you find the defendant guilty, or not guilty?"
Me: "Uh, what? Sorry, I was just running away from this bloody giant rat. What's up?"
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Re: Towers of Chaos

Post by PaulH »

3.3 out soon...
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