Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

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pabrams
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Phoenix wrote: Once you return from the past in Halk's Quest, do not click on the first eye switch (on western wall) unless you are taking Halk's ending. For Halk's ending you click on that switch, take the teleporter to the Guilds and then go to Halk's mirror. Puting the power gem in the amalgum there will end the game.
As far as I can tell, I should click that eye switch whether I'm taking Halk's ending or not, because that way I get to keep the power gem, and I can't see any disadvantage, since the guild seems to be permanently closed off even when I go the other way (to the Moria).
Spoiler
Just take the teleporter to the guilds, then drop down the pit in the Ninja guild, and walk to the Moria if you want, and viola! Same result as if you take the Moria teleporter from Halk's ending except with an extra Power Gem.
Except I'm worried that there actually is a difference, like maybe there's some way to get the Darc armor back again if I take the Moria teleporter...?
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

If you don't click on that switch and open the old way to Moria, the Guildhall will not be closed off. The fact that you've managed to keep the gem is a bug. I'll add this to the known bug list. The Darc armor is gone after you return to the present. The best armor for Halk is the Dragon armor not the Darc armor.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

pabrams wrote:I wasn't missing any items. What item were you guys talking about? Everything I needed was already there, I think...
Oh I think I get it now. If you don't go into Halk's ending with the right item,
Spoiler
Zed's horn, or the Branch of Fear and Courage, or some other item that will make a monster get out of your way,
then I guess you could get permanently stuck.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Hey, is Pal Master the highest possible level? I don't remember ever seeing anything higher than that in Conflux.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

No. I was talking about a vinegar that you get in the Mildew rooms at the very begining of the game. If you bring it with you, you don't need to make it in the lab and can attack right away.

Archmaster is the last level title you can obtain. If you have an Archmaster and double your EXP, you can go up a level, but it will still say Archmaster.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Generic »

Have to add that the only reason I was able to make the item was thanks to the alchemy walkthrough on the wiki, so thanks a lot both for the assistance and the work on the wiki!
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Generic »

Oh, and I'm currently knocking about in Leyla's ending. Might head up again for a pop at the Archmage of Mampang (love the nod to Sorcery!) or Xanathar now that my party is a stronger. Not many things left to do but once I've done them I think I'll probably start over and get Lor in my party!
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Generic wrote:Not many things left to do but once I've done them I think I'll probably start over and get Lor in my party!
For me, if I start over it's maleficent guild. Lor seems cool, but I don't think he opens up any additional possibilities, like points or gameplay.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Phoenix wrote:No. I was talking about a vinegar that you get in the Mildew rooms at the very begining of the game. If you bring it with you, you don't need to make it in the lab and can attack right away.
I never knew there was
Spoiler
Vitriol
in that room. But even if it's not what you originally meant, it might have been correct the way I said it - I'm not sure what I would have done to get back to the ingredients when the knight was blocking me at the stairs, if I didn't have one of the items I mentioned - I think I would have had to reload.
Last edited by pabrams on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Is the fifth teleport scroll in Mophus' ending in the unfinished area, or is that an extra one?
Spoiler
Even though the unfinished area has no legitimate way out, I'm thinking I could use the scroll to get out, but I can't figure out how to open that RA door. Is it even possible?
It does give a point when I open the door by cheating.
Last edited by pabrams on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Generic wrote:Have to add that the only reason I was able to make the item was thanks to the alchemy walkthrough on the wiki, so thanks a lot both for the assistance and the work on the wiki!
Yeah, it saved me a lot of time, too, but I think you could have eventually figured it out anyway - I think all the information is there in those rooms.

Sorry for all the posts... I know that used to annoy some people, but I've gotten used to posting multiple times, now that posts can no longer be edited after a few seconds, for some reason. At least I should level up faster this way!
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Generic »

Lor would be just for kicks, always nice to get a new character!
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Was the bug fixed where the scroll didn't count a point? I can't figure out where I'm missing a point...
The five flask points are as follows, right?
Spoiler
Cellar
Wisdom
Spider (near winged key)
End of Priest Guild
Entrance to Tower of Mampang
So I should be missing only a point for the funereal mace, a point for the scroll
Spoiler
in Mophus' unfinished area, behind a door I can't figure out how to open
and fifteen points for Gothmog's ending. But my competition scroll says 172 points, so there's one point I can't account for.
Other things I can't figure out
Spoiler
are how to get the vampiric katana after killing the captain or whoever that guy was, or how to kill the leader of the council in the solune ending (if I step forward, game is over, and my fireballs get teleported too).
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Finally decided to go back to Mophus' unfinished area and see what else there was to do, and this area is not as unfinished as I'd thought. Finally got the Ra door open and claimed the point. Now to figure out about the missing point.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Spoiler
I even got out without using a scroll. The SAR keys aren't actually needed - the six-lock door opens from the other side
This place doesn't seem that unfinished to me, except maybe the part with all the bags and bones.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Phoenix wrote:Can't help you with Vecna. My party is typically shreded by the lightning after killing her. Lighting strength was increased in one of the revisions and it really changed the game balance. I get broken bones from lightning hits 75% of the time.
Were you playing Wip006? I just killed Vecna and got the Mace; stood in the lightning for several seconds without healing and my guys all still have over 50% health left. I had fireshield on, but I assume you did too...
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

I'm pretty sure one of the one-point items did not register. Phoenix can you confirm? Or does your scroll say 189 without Mace Windu?

Or wait, does the competition scroll have to be in your possession for the point to register?
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

Actually my scroll says 190. I've completed the Challenge and devised a new method for dealing with Vecna. The competition scroll does need to be with you at all times to get points to register. I 'll post more when I'm back from vacation.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Paul Stevens »

The competition scroll does need to be with you at all times to get points to register
Are you perfectly sure of this? It is quite possible but it
would seem more difficult to implement. I would call it
a bug. The scroll should be only a source of information,
not a container for the points.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Paul Stevens wrote:
The competition scroll does need to be with you at all times to get points to register
Are you perfectly sure of this? It is quite possible but it
would seem more difficult to implement. I would call it
a bug. The scroll should be only a source of information,
not a container for the points.
I've tested this (Wip006) and it appears that one does NOT need to have the scroll in one's posession in order for the point to register, although there seems to be a bug with the notification message.

Here's what I did:
1. Loaded a slightly older saved game where I was outside Vecna's. Looked at the competition scroll; it said 173 points.
2. Dropped the scroll at the doorway leading to the altar of nightmare.
3. Killed Vecna and retrieved Windu.
4. Examined Windu (previously, this is when a message was displayed saying I got a point). Observed that the message notifying that a point was gained was not displayed.
5. Dropped Windu.
6. Picked up competition scroll and examined it. It said 174 points.

So I'm still not sure where I'm missing a point, but the above seems to rule out the possibility that I missed it while the scroll was stolen or dropped (unless it's possible that some items behave differently with respect to the competition scroll? Maybe Paul or Zyx could answer that).
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

Finally figured it out - I missed the egg mothers, that's what happened :oops:. I forgot all about them... in my head when I was going over the list of 1-point competition items I was thinking they were the spiders I met in the queen's corridor where the whip is.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

I'm going to defer to answer some questions as they will be covered in the updated Quests page of the wiki. I'm completing another run through the dungeon to ensure accuracy.

re:competition scroll

The instructions on the initial competition scroll clearly state that the scroll should be kept with you. I've always carried it with me, so I've never had any problems, but the game does not report "feats" if the scroll isn't in your inventory. I was unaware that it updated the points without a message until recent testing. Be that as it may, I wouldn't consider that a bug. While the competion is a part of Conflux, Conflux is not the competition. It's completely optional to do. There are many puzzles and areas that have nothing to do with the competition.
pabrams wrote:It does give a point when I open the door by cheating.
You hit a road block and resort to cheating. This is just sad...

As for level 35, to quote Zyx
The level itself has no name because supposedly nobody has returned with this knowledge, the plane is a trap,
though it never was designed at its full capacity (ran out of time).

"Rule 35":
Level 35 should not be mapped, hinted, spoiled, ever, in the wiki. The
knowledge of it is out of reach. This is something that you can only
discover by going there yourself. You can't reveal anything about it
unless in very obfuscated ways.

Please respect Zyx's wishes in this matter unless he states otherwise.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by pabrams »

I don't need the quests any more, I figured them all out on my own, so I won't be reading whatever you post to the wiki.

You don't think that's a bug? That's odd, I thought you had QA experience. It's inconsistent behavior.

Regarding your insult about cheating, what do you think anyone who reads the wiki is doing? It's all cheating. Maybe you did everything without resorting to any hints at all, but it doesn't matter - the enjoyment you get out of the game is your own; there's no reason to insult anyone for any cheating they might do. It shouldn't concern you in any way. This is a single-player game, and the competition is over.

I did cheat to find the location of the fifth scroll, and then again to see whether it would actually give a point but I didn't keep that game; I eventually opened the door without cheating after I finally decided that you may have been mistaken (now it turns out you were lying) about that area. I would have found it on my own if I hadn't listened to your bad advice - you said Mophus' "sucked in" area was unfinished and not to bother with it. I guess maybe that's level 35 and you were trying to follow these strange instructions that you say came from Zyx. Speaking of which, I haven't said anything about level 35 in the wiki. Also, Zyx has never said anything to me about it, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

However, I do promise never to add anything to the wiki about level 35.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Paul Stevens »

pabrams wrote:I've tested this (Wip006) and it appears that one does NOT need to have the scroll in one's posession in order for the point to register, although there seems to be a bug with the notification message
Thank you for your work.

My opinion (which might rightly be termed of no value) is that
the scroll is the source of information about the competition points.
Accumulation of points and receiving information about those points are
independent.
Therefore, not having the scroll and not receiving notification of
competition points is consistent.
Therefore, accumulating the points without the scroll is consistent.

Again, my opinion (worthless it might be) is that you cannot 'cheat'
at solitaire. Nor Conflux. I think of 'cheat' as a transitive verb and
when there is nobody to cheat then cheating cannot take place. What
some decry as cheating becomes instead an act of kindness, helping
someone (the cheater) to have more fun at nobody's expense.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

My point about the scroll is that if someone wants to play the dungeon and isn't interested in the competition then messages concerning it don't matter. The scroll says keep it with you for the competition. If you can't be bothered to follow instructions that's your problem.

That area in Mophus's Quest IS level 35. It is, by Zyx's own words iin a private e-mail (appologies to Zyx for quoting it here without asking), not finished. I never said there wasn't an exit. YOU infered that. I was simply following Zyx's request to be vague about it. If you have a problem with it then take it up with him. If I lied it was only by omition, not to mislead. I'll try to help anyone who asks here, but I prefer, whenever possible, to give hints, and not spoon feed answers and spoilers.

As for the cheating, you're really thin skined aren't you. This is the second time you've lashed out at me like a petulant child. The wiki isn't cheating. The wiki is an online version of a game manual. Opening the dungeon in the editor to modify it is cheating. I see cheating when things become hard is a symptom of the instant gratifiation culture. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much you are entitled to your own. The fact that you take my commentary as a personal insult and your posting style simply tells me that you are young, impatient, and don't take criticism very well. People are going to disagree with what you post on the internet, and if you can't be dispassionate about it, you're only setting yourself up for a future heart attack.

Regardless, I, and most likely the moderators, would probably like us to get back to posting about Conflux and not personal ideolgies.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Generic »

I have just visited the level 35 you speak of, and it was a highlight! Guddling around in what I feel must be the plane of fire. I can see why the full Lyte armour set would be a boon - I'm shieldless also. I've been on holiday for the last week or so and the first thing I've done on my return is drop my boy off round at Granny's and load up my favourite old school game.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Sophia »

Please keep the thread on topic and devoid of personal insults.
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Cytryn »

Sickness in version Wip006 is fixed? It is reaaly annoying seams sleeping not working, i still have no flask so with 2 front characters having sick is really hard to advance. Any tips how to fix it or cure sickness without flask?
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Crashone »

Hi,
was a very long time since I played Conflux and I'm about to re-enter the dungeon with a new savegame.
Last time I quit was because of the disease system, that I never understand the philosophy (beside making the game harder, if ever possible) so, I'm looking for a version without it.
In that case, which version of Conflux should I download please? And what improvement will I miss from the wip006?

thx
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Re: Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by Phoenix »

I've added a page on Illness to the wiki, but I don't think there is a version of Conflux without disease. There is a small percentage chance to cure a disease via SAR wines, but for the most part, it is neccessary to get a flask as soon as possible. Until your Champions get a flask, they should stay away from creature that can cause diseases. I don't take my party bellow the Cellars until I do. Rats are the only disease vector in the Cellars, so the trick in dealing with them is hit and run attacks (i.e. don't let them bite you). If you follow my Path on the wiki, the Flask Quest is the first Quest that I undertake. Until you get a flask, save often. If you get a disease, quit and reload.

The Quests page of the wiki is at 99% complete. All information needed to complete the Challenge (including the Flask Quest) is up. The only data missing is on some of the Champion specific items.
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