Which custom is similar to classic DM?

Links to all custom dungeons. Also discussions about custom dungeons: tips and tricks, questions, ideas, etc.
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Zed5Duke
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Which custom is similar to classic DM?

Post by Zed5Duke »

I tryed play several custom dungeons, but they seem to be different from old known DM. I mean some different story and style. Anyway so may them and dont known what chose. Cant find motivation to finish dungeon which dont fit to my known DM stereotype. Mostly i played dungeons build on my favourite CSBwin:

Conflux: have great arts & sounds and i liked it mostly, but its totally different, some guilds where you may join and strange riddles inside. Too many weird concepts..

Black Flame: To dificulty, i died because thristy! anyway Starwars???

Tower of Chaos: I played it most time, very good one. But levels was incredible big and i dont known where its end (i mean level with forest and underground castle) I lost myself there, too many time spend on walk from one place to other searching key..

Angels Egg: Its totally parody..


I want ask: Do you known any custom dungeon which is very similar to original DM?
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ian_scho
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Post by ian_scho »

I like linear dungeons too, where you dont get thrown into a nest of dragons after 15 minutes.... Have you played Dungeon Master II?
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Zed5Duke
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Post by Zed5Duke »

Yes, i played it long but not finished, it was crazy anyway. Many different concepts which probably was design to increase playability like map or shop but i just like old known DM. Also i tryed Chaso Strikes Back but when i seen champions portraits.. youh!! Got strange feeling that dungeon will be is worst than DM so i dont played it.
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Post by linflas »

try CSB with your DM winning team, then :)
(or my first dungeon called "Sukumvit Labyrinth", but it's not DM story of course)
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Trantor
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Post by Trantor »

Importing your DM characters into CSB may indeed be a good idea. However, CSB is VERY hard and confusing and quite unlike DM. CSB is very non-linear and twisted; it is a very rewarding dungeon, though, with incredible design.

From the dungeons I have played, I'd say Towers of Chaos is indeed your best bet when it comes to the classic DM feeling.
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Zed5Duke
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Post by Zed5Duke »

What should have classic Dungeon:
-Many champions in begining area from you select best team
-Champions look like humans from many different parts of world
-Monsters are easy in begining and much more dificulty in end
-The same for labirynth size and riddles (level 1-3 easy, level 4-6 medium, levels 7-9 hard)
-During adventure you need find artefact weapons to kill boss in end
-Graphic, sounds, story are simple, playability is high because good design of labirynths
-Most important part of RPG: start from zero and become hero. Iin begining champions are weak and dont have many stuff but during progress find better equipment and have exp to get trough strongh monsters and riddles.
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Trantor
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Post by Trantor »

I understand what you are striving for Zed5Duke, but the problem is that there are probably few dungeons that follow that exact pattern. Most of us have played the original DM to death and know it by heart. If a designer tries to build a dungeon with a similar preface, the dungeon is bound to be compared to DM, and since DM is so great, this comparison might not go well for the custom dungeon.

In other words, many designers step away from this classic game design for two reasons:
1. The dungeon is meant to be something different, something new, because the same design again might lead to boredom.
2. The dungeon might be inferior to the original DM.

Of those similar to DM, I'd say PaulH's creations Towers of Chaos und The Black Flame may be the best, with Towers of Chaos being the stronger of the two. But since you have already tried those, I am not sure you will find a dungeon that fits your likings.
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ian_scho
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Post by ian_scho »

And many custom dungeons are flippin difficult for sub-humans like me :P
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Trantor
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Post by Trantor »

ian_scho wrote:And many custom dungeons are flippin difficult for sub-humans like me :P
True, I forgot about that (the difficulty thing, not the sub-human thing of course). Since veteran players usually have no problem at all with DM, most dungeons tend to be a lot harder. Conflux is just one of the many examples.
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Post by beowuuf »

If you look at my reviews you will see which are similar to DM as I'm sure I mention it

- Parlous and Tomb of ther Firestaff (PAulH's first) are very much based on DM, to start with, with nice changes by the end

- My own dungeon is supposed to be set in the same dungeon (asome echoes) but different, perhaps the gameplay will be too different for you

- I think Rust and Bloody similar to DM aswell

- Toni Y's two dungeons Return of Chaos and Grave of King Filius are very DM like, GRave is a different plot but is good, Return to Chaos follows on fro mthe CSB story but is slightly different


The dungeosn you mention are good precisely because they have gone outwith the bounds of normal DM, but I can see why people wanting a follow on challenge to DM would get knocked by it

I think eprhaps in reviews a similarity category may be a good idea
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Post by beowuuf »

Actualyl, can I also suggest LMBs two dungeons for PC DM / CSBwin - they are short and based on saved games, ansd while not layed out like DM they have a very nice fun feel (mosnter swarm is probably not liek DM but is handled very well in one of them)
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Post by Zed5Duke »

I understand that people wants build something different, so it would be more interesting. But mostly new ideas go wrong way and i got some different feeling when play classic and customs. In my opinion its only need to build new labirynths and new riddles in the same DM (for example rebuild it using simple DMute) Invent too much new ideas, graphics and story will not help make game playable, it must be something else.

What is wrong with customs i played:
-Parody and humor (dungeon should be more dangerous feeling)
-Walls graphics (i understand new items or scenery but too much made feeling you play some different game, not DM)
-Game story. Why i should learn from readme what to do instead of just run game and play, i dont have any instruction and introduction for DM but i finished it, and i dont ask any questions during play)
-Crazy labirynth design or riddles. For example unvisible teleporters and traps or secret buttons which you NEED find to make progress. And too big area where you walk to find some key or button.
-Only few heroes which you must play because you dont have too much chose from.
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Post by Ameena »

You could always design a dungeon yourself which fits your specific desires for your idea of a "perfect" dungeon...then you'd know there was a dungeon out there you would like and also you'd be contributing to our entertainment by providing a new adventure for the rest of us ;).
I started making a dungeon about a year and a half ago (must be something like that by now...omg so long lol) but I've not done anything to it for ages. Technically it takes aspects from both DM and CSB, and also a bunch of new kinda stuff (plot-wise, not graphics...bugger me if I can do anything really technical :P) from my own head.
I don't think you'll find a dungeon that's really similar to DM, 'cause if anyone made a dungeon like that, surely it'd feel like retreading the same old ground over again (ie recreating a clone of the DM dungeon), and as Trantor says, no-one would surely hope to make a dungeon better than the DM one, 'cause...well, 'cause it's DM and it's so bloody good, ain't it? :D
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Post by Parallax »

I understand your frustration. Unfortunately, custom dungeons are very time-consuming to create and, as all artistic creations, they are an expression of their author.

In choosing to play one, you enter the author's paradigm and have to accept it. In that case, the only thing 'wrong' in a dungeon is whatever doesn't work the way the author intended. Trying to create something new, original, and unlike whatever came before is the essence of innovation. Given the choice, most people would rather spend their their time creating something that has never been created before rather than something that has been done already.

Compounded with that is the fact that, as Beowuuf pointed out, anyone reinventing the wheel would find their dungeon compared to the original DM, and you can't get more DM-like than DM. Creating a custom dungeon that aims to be 'like DM' is setting yourself up for failure, or at least for falling short.

You will probably have better luck accepting that a given custom dungeon is not DM, and playing it for what it is. After all, if you end up enjoying it, does it really matter that it is not DM?

And of course, you can always create your own dungeon according to your own specs of how it 'should' be done.
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Post by beowuuf »

I think another issue is that alot of us have played DM and CSB to death. Personally when I have played custom dungeonsd (As I used to play all of them a while back) then I would find those too similar to , and really a basic 'rescue this person from this wizard' is done to death.

I like humour, I like a complex story that challenges me mentally, and I certainly like to get away from the same grey walls and known powered objects and 'stick key into lock find other key'

So I think it would be wrong to say that any of the designers have got it 'wrong', thye aare simply catering for one audience, for which there are a few people.


Anyway, the above is all beside the point, the dungeons I have listed, and a few others I may have forgetten, are good dungeosn that should satisfy your understandable desire to play more dungeons along the lines of the game you fell in love with. Certainly Toni y's are definitely worth looking at, as are the LMB ones I mentioned.

Apart from monster flooding (which let's face it CSB had) I would suggest that sucinum's imprisoned dungeons are both very highly regarded while at the same time remaining very true to the DM spirit
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Post by Des »

Imprisoned Again was the one that came to mind for me too. A trad DM adventure which is just right in oh so many respects. Remember almost all the old PC DM dungeons can be played in CSBWin (you have to open and save them in CSBuild).

P.S. Er, yes, Angel's Egg and parody. Guilty as charged :oops: :D
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Post by Trantor »

I have only played Imprisoned Again, and that is indeed a fine dungeon that keeps the spirit of DM while blending it a little bit with that of CSB (the different paths especially). It is a bit non-linear, but in a clearly arranged way. However, I remember it being quite hard, especially at the beginning and in a certain spot that involved a certain Chinese philosopher... The dungeon is very combat-oriented and has a bit too little to offer on the puzzle side for my taste, but it is definitely a very good dungeon.

What I really don't understand, Zed5Duke, is your dislike for a story. You may have played DM without the storyline behind it, but that story was actually very good. The only bad thing was that the game included practically nothing of relevance to the story. This is true for most of the other dungeons out there as well, but adding a bit of a background story just adds to the atmosphere and feel IMHO. If you ignore all that, you are definitely missing out.
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Post by beowuuf »

Actually, the friend that introduced me to DM first had it without a manual, and so couldn't cast a single spell, then when he got to the end and faced chaos had no clue what to do
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Zed5Duke
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Post by Zed5Duke »

When i played DM i dont have manual and i learn spells by experiments. Probably nobody will believe but i invent zokathra spell myself, it was luck because i just click randomly few spell components. Also i dont known how kill last boss, just some day appear idea in my mind that one spell make cage and second destroy thing inside. So it is possible finish it without any solution or manual 8)

I tryed many times make own dungeons and creativity put me olways into different ways. I dont finish any from them instead of small "Well of Fortune" probably because i got feeling that i go wrong way or i lost concept in 2-3 level. Now i think about build "Classic Dungeon" first i must think about rules (what should/dont have dungeon similar to DM1)
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Post by beowuuf »

Oh, can I also recommend Beastmaster as a custom to look at. It was a first tiome effort, is easy and small, but it felt like DM while having alot of nice originality
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Post by sucinum »

beowuuf wrote:Apart from monster flooding
That was fixed in the latest version - at least no more armies of knights... ;)
So yes, go for Imprisoned Again, i consider it my masterpiece (which doesn't mean there are no better dungeons out there) and i wanted it to be similar to DM and without too much getting lost-factor.
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