RTC vs DSB

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Gambit37
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Gambit37 »

Beowuuf wrote:I would like to see as many DSB dungeons as RTC dungeons
I have a DSB project in the works, but it's on hold at present while I finish my house purchase -- and then the next few months will be taken up with building and renovation work so I won't have any time for my hobbies.
Beowuuf wrote:it seems DSB is only pushed on the merits of its coding by many
I agree and this is a big problem. DSB is perfectly capable of making good dungeon entirely using the ESB visual editor. But it seems that some dungeon designers have already decided that it's for programmers only and so they won't even investigate it which is a real shame. My interest in DSB is in the customisation capabilities it offers over RTC, and I really don't care for arguments on which is better or worse: they are both very good at what they do, in different ways. I've made this plain in all my previous discussions on the matter, and if people want to read something else into that and raise argument, that's up to them: I won't be a part of that sort of waste of energy anymore. Life is too short for that nonsense.

My big problem is time: When I was younger with no responsibilities, I was investing a lot of time in learning RTC. Now that I've switched to DSB, I have to go through that learning process again but I have far less time. Therefore, things will clearly take much much longer. I may have built some cool things in a week in RTC previously; now I am lucky if I can build the same stuff in 3-4 weeks in DSB: not because it's more complex, but because I simply don't have the time.

It also must be remembered that most of us treat this as a creative hobby to satisfy ourselves, not the rest of the forum.
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terkio
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by terkio »

Gambit37 wrote: It also must be remembered that most of us treat this as a creative hobby to satisfy ourselves, not the rest of the forum.
Thanks to be honest.
This says it all.

I have liked the thread, where you raised the question : "Are custom dungeons for players, or the creators? " http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 76&t=28991
"You can be on the right track and still get hit by a train!" Alfred E. Neuman
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Sophia
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Sophia »

Gambit37 wrote:It also must be remembered that most of us treat this as a creative hobby to satisfy ourselves, not the rest of the forum.
Definitely this.

I think a big part of why DSB sometimes seems stuck in the esoteric realm for programmers is that it was born out of desire for new mechanics. I think that at some point between completely dynamically procedurally generated dungeons and re-implementations of pong it is was sort of forgotten that people can create "normal" dungeons in the thing, too! Initially, DSB was just a quirky little thing that I created because I wanted a completely scriptable DM clone and one didn't exist. It was essentially built for the niche of "nothing else is flexible enough" people. That's not meant as an attack on other clones, by the way; it's just expressing the feeling that some people might and do legitimately have. It's certainly not my goal to step on anyone's choices-- if I point out something that RTC/CSBwin/Java/whatever can't do and DSB can, my goal is information and promotion, not flaming. It's to build up DSB, not tear down the other clone, in other words.

I think all the stuff about GUI and Lua and monster AI and such come down to what works best for each individual designer or user. I'm going to promote DSB, sure, I wrote the thing, why shouldn't I? However, I certainly acknowledge there are advantages and disadvantages to each clone here, and a lot of it is really subjective. At the end of the day, when speaking of "DSB vs RTC" I think DSB has one and only one actual advantage: it's still in active development, whereas RTC is (to the best of anyone's knowledge) not.
Chaos-Shaman wrote:it is my intent to eventually be able to work with everyone.
I'm all for that. I think it would help this cause immensely if, instead of "[having] all of the messages and a long memory," you'd acknowledge that whatever real and imaginary wrong that was done to you was a very long time ago.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

yeah, but after 6 years of continual slaps in the face anyone gets discouraged beowuuf. it was my turn to relay my feelings, and that was the trigger and now you've seen my action :) you can count on it, but it's not to late to smooth things out. what keeps running through my mind is how all that time could have been turned into possitives for DM, but as i said, some here were content on smearing any RTC designs in favour of DSB, and RTC as far as i can see is still making grounds and could have been for years, a big waste of time to me. one thing is positive for me, I LEARNED A SHITLOAD of stuff and am still pressing forward, left it for 2 years, kinda glad i did, nobody missed me anyway.

i think Lynchagte will be a big surprise! which is why i will hold back any examples, i've only shown two people,one said WOW, the other said not impressed and i've done this before, kinds threw me a bit since i had a hard time believing it. i hope it was kept to themselves as that's what good friends do. so it won't please everyone YET

i'm with you SU, to the end. i too like learning and farting about with stuff. i don't have the courage to ask the simple questions that would get me to the next level. first time i did that i was given crap, i could feel it! i knew it, but that's not something you say when still attempting to find someone who wants to work together. i think i asked that question to just about everyone here, you all know who you are and if you don't, reread the messages, you'll see what i mean.
i was open hearted about everything. i am war torn on the battlefield, i've scars so deep (memory) it may take some time to remove them. don't expect miracles right away.

SU, you are the first person to actually listen and by doing so you got the benefit, i'm not done with you yet :) tell me what else you want RTC to do, let me pay with the idea. in the area of wallmaking, i have HACKED that to pieces and it can be done in many ways. tell you the truth, the monster ai was the first time i have thought of using it, it just poppped in there just like that. i was sort of doing it and didn't know the potential it produced, it was the question and how you asked it that unlocked my pea brain, thanks man.
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Seriously Unserious
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Seriously Unserious »

Thanks CS! :D

I'll be ready to release a demo of Lynchgate soon, I just have a few bugs to remove, mostly spelling errors in the text, but I haven't had the time to work on that much these past couple of weeks, as I've been busy with tests at college. I have one more on Wednesday, but after that I'll have some time to hammer out that Demo.
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Chaos-Shaman
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Chaos-Shaman »

great stuff SU, i believe most will like it, you'll still have a few who won't like it, you can't please everyone, especially those who have placed RTC as old and outdated, other dungeon engines are a long way off fromo RTCs potential, but i'm sure it will happen and it will be great when it does, but for now RTC is #1. if GG came back and made a few adjustments, this program would blow any other old styled dungeon game out of the water and onto the moon. just a few things and whammo. so get that demo going, and i think your story telling is fantastic.
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Gambit37
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Re: RTC vs DSB

Post by Gambit37 »

I'm locking this thread as it's run its course. Shaman, if you want to discuss RTC mechanics, please do so in the RTC forums. Any further negativity towards the forum members or other engines will not be tolerated.
Locked