New version of my business website

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Gambit37
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New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

OK, so it's 18 months since I launched my "Sea" themed portfolio website. It's done me well, but now it's time to change it. I am changing the focus of the work I do and also getting a completely new brand image -- much cleaner and more professional.

Here's the current site:
http://www.friskdesign.com/

And here's a work-in-progress version of the new site:
http://www.friskdesign.com/v/?p=a10.jpg

It's just a flat image file at the moment, not a working webpage and I've only posted it up to get some feedback on the overall tone/weight/colour scheme. I wanted something clean, professional, contemporary but classic with no 'fuss'. (Note, it's optimised for a browser set to fullscreen on a monitor 1024 wide or more.)

EDIT NOTE: THIS IS NOT THE HOMEPAGE -- it's just an example lower page. You'll follow a prominent "call to action" from the homepage to get here.

I'm really happy with this as it stands (which is rare for me) and am unlikely to change anything radically at this stage. But I'm still interested in getting any input -- comments and criticisms welcome, thanks.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by ian_scho »

To be honest I was surprised that you chose such a... Non corporate theme for your original design - I really like it though!
The alpha is definitely more to my expectations for your line of business, although you really like white space don't you? :)
Not sure about the 'body' of the web page. You uncheck the boxes and it updates I presume. I wonder if it freaks users out having the page update this area depending upon the selection? The footer will jump around if the user unselects everything as they zoom in on just one artefact that interest them. It all depends how you implement that transition I suppose. My first instinct was to use tabs instead but I blame Amazon for changing usability experts thinking on using those!
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by beowuuf »

the simple one seems good. i also like your choice of e-mail, not seen that before
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Bit »

I don't know if it makes a difference for you, but in germany one shouldn't directly point on a one-man-team. The reason is simple: companies tend to ask their lawyers if they can get one if something fails, (so - what happens if a meteor strikes on you, or - more important - what, if you decide to make longer vacations in florida) - and here it's hard to get a single one! Hide that as long as possible.
I lost bigger orders because of that - they told that this was the reason. Even argueing that in a software-company just one or two people will do the project too didn't help - they can get that company in responsibility then. That really makes the difference!
If possible, give some references to long-term services, pages that you host for a long time now etc. - that promises stability and really satisfied clients. The wish for a peaceful long-time connection is everywhere, even if reality always states the opposite (and because of this...).
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Jan »

I like both designs, they are both tasteful, simple and clean - that's what I prefer. Simplicity is the key! The only problem I have with the improved design is the prevalence of white colour - because my eyes are very often tired (and I also have some slight problems with my sight), I prefer light (white) letters on dark background. The large areas of light (white) background make my eyes tired, I tend to lose concentration. But this is just a detail, and I think that most people won't have problems with that. So - great design! You do have a taste for these things! :)
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Gambit37
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

ian_scho wrote:although you really like white space don't you? :)
Absolutely! Without effective use of white space, you don't have a usable design.
ian_scho wrote:You uncheck the boxes and it updates I presume.
That's just a suggestion of possible functionality, I haven't worked out the mechnics yet. It will likely change to something more intuitive and usable -- or maybe I won't have it all, I might just restrict the portfolio to one page with just my 5 best items on it.
Bit wrote:In germany one shouldn't directly point on a one-man-team.... Hide that as long as possible.
The whole point is that I'm a one-man-band with highly valued expertise. This is the nature of freelance web design and it's not something I will be hiding; it's the reason people want to work with me!
Jan wrote:The only problem I have with the improved design is the prevalence of white colour - I prefer light (white) letters on dark background. :)
Interesting! It's generally accepted that dark on light is much easier for people to read. Plus the darker blue of the old site is hard to read and I wanted to freshen up the brand image. Lots of white tends to be seen as more professional than darkly coloured sites. My current site, with the blue background, seems "hobbyist" rather than professional, hence the new direction.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Zyx »

I know it's only dummy text and pictures, but it immediately feels like an unprofessional bug to see twice the same photo on the first sample. Or the same summary text for each sample.

The old site seems a little hobbyist because of the sea floor at the bottom.
Is he that fond of aquarium that he had to put one on his professional site? (and possibly in all his designs)
That's what an idiot would think, thus discarding you. Which means that your old site wasn't fool-friendly.


Your new site is more neutral, but on the other hand:
- Lacks a touch of fancy creativity. You can pull the functionality alright, but quid of a personality, a cachet?
- Your portfolio page has less colors than your samples, which seems a discrepancy, almost a scam.
- Everything is so square!

I would recommend 3 stylized vertical lines in the left margin, of a color not too far from the frisky blue(or a camaïeu of 3 blues), going down to help the eyes to keep reading to the bottom (one could think there's nothing more after the first sample) with some curves (a round angle at the top for example).

Don't blame me for giving these comments, you asked for them!
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

Cool feedback, thanks for the constructive criticism. Always good to get critical feedback, it's the way we improve, so don't worry about offending me, you won't. :)
Zyx wrote:Lacks a touch of fancy creativity. You can pull the functionality alright, but quid of a personality, a cachet?
I don't understand your second sentence. Regarding lack of creativity -- this is the problem with many portfolio sites. They put so much effort into making the site itself "creative" that it gets in the way of easily and cleanly viewing the actual portfolio items. I wanted to strip the styling right back so that the work speaks for itself and is not fighting against the site design/creativity.
Zyx wrote:Your portfolio page has less colors than your samples, which seems a discrepancy, almost a scam.
I don't understand what you mean. The samples are the focus, the site itself won't have much colour, it's not needed.
Zyx wrote:Everything is so square!
Yes. Please elaborate.
Zyx wrote:I would recommend 3 stylized vertical lines in the left margin...going down to help the eyes to keep reading to the bottom (one could think there's nothing more after the first sample).
Did you think there was nothing after the first sample?
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Zyx »

Gambit37 wrote:
Zyx wrote:Lacks a touch of fancy creativity. You can pull the functionality alright, but quid of a personality, a cachet?
I don't understand your second sentence.

You can show information in an efficient and interactive way. But can you add a branding to the site?
Gambit37 wrote: I wanted to strip the styling right back so that the work speaks for itself and is not fighting against the site design/creativity.
I understand but I find it unexpected for someone claiming to be a bit creative to make a not-at-all creative presentation of his creations. My expectations being that if you were creative, you would like being creative, and you would be at least slightly creative in your site. I think you went from an extreme to the other.
Gambit37 wrote:The samples are the focus, the site itself won't have much colour, it's not needed.
Same problem as before.
Gambit37 wrote:
Zyx wrote:Everything is so square!
Yes. Please elaborate.
Square is efficient AND boring. Yes, the eyes can find easily the information but they stopped caring about it because they wanted interesting shapes and colours to watch: consider internauts like babies with 8s attention span.
Gambit37 wrote:Did you think there was nothing after the first sample?
On a 1920 x 1080 resolution, the vertical scrollbar is the only hint that there is more, and it's far to the right. So yes, it came as a possibility, and I had to manually check, which meant disrupting my reading flow (scrolling with the mousewheel or looking at the scrollbar) just to understand the structure of the page (to make a mental map, if you prefer). There is not internal hint that there is something beyond the first sample; on the contrary, the white space below the summary text could be interpreted as the end of a left menu if you just look at the shape, not the content.

I hope you'll manage to understand, I feel so clumsy with my words. I can make a dungeon with a trapped beholder if you prefer, it would explain better.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Sophia »

Gambit37 wrote:Did you think there was nothing after the first sample?
I did, for whatever that's worth. :?
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Joramun »

I agree with Zyx and Sophia. I don't like huge scrolling pages either, so maybe tabs or links would be good. Maybe put navigation links in the white columns on left or right if it fits your scheme. Also, an icon or small image always prompts curiosity. With the current state, there's no incentive to scroll down, because it just looks "more of the same" (mostly because it's all white and there is no clear transitions between projects.)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by sucinum »

I like the style, but i also think it's a bit too white. Since you only use a fixed width for the content, you could frame it with another color (dark green or grey maybe). That will reduce the white by more than half (for me). :)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

Wow, some very interesting feedback here. The last few responses have certainly thrown up some curious real-world trends that go against current wisdom of how people use websites.

The whole thing about none of you scrolling really puzzles me. You're web savvy people and you know how websites work. Yet the feedback suggests you're newbies who have no clue about a browser and scrollbars. It's the feedback I'd expect from people just starting out on a computer and the web.

For years, web designers worked on the idea that we need to get the most important information "above the fold" because of the perception that "Users don't scroll." Now, today, usability studies show that most users DO scroll and understand scrolling websites. So I need to ask of you: where is the bottom of the first portfolio item appearing in your browser?. Which of these applies to you?

1) It stops directly at the bottom of the screen (and thus suggesting that there's no more content)
2) It's partially cut off because it's longer than the viewable space.
3) It's shorter than the available space and you can see the beginning of the next sample.

(1) is the problem I suspect you are experiencing. (2) and (3) should automatically encourage scrolling. If you're seeing (2) or (3) and you're not scrolling, why? What are your expectations here?
Zyx wrote:You can show information in an efficient and interactive way. But can you add a branding to the site?
That's exactly what I've done. Branding can be subtle and not explicit. I'm working on this new brand which is saying "simple, stable, robust, professional." This is communicated through the colour choice, the weight of the typeface I've chosen, the subtle texture and the liberal use of whitespace (which doesn't actually have to be "white"). The idea is that the brand is symbolised by the subtleties of these choices. If you feel there is no brand here, then I have failed. Of course, branding is also defined by the content -- in this case, the voice I use for the text, which at the moment is only dummy text -- this clearly doesn't help my case. I'll need to think about this; maybe the mistake was showing you just the portfolio page.
Zyx wrote:I understand but I find it unexpected for someone claiming to be a bit creative to make a not-at-all creative presentation of his creations. My expectations being that if you were creative, you would like being creative, and you would be at least slightly creative in your site.
Most galleries show their works on plain white walls for very simple and obvious reasons.

From one point of view, a portfolio site should do exactly the same and this is the route I decided to take this time around. The site itself doesn't need to be "creative" in and of itself. There are plenty of designers making beautiful and gorgeous websites that are highly visual and creative. I could have done that again myself. In fact, I nearly did, but in the end decided not to.
Zyx wrote:Square is efficient AND boring. Yes, the eyes can find easily the information but they stopped caring about it because they wanted interesting shapes and colours to watch: consider internauts like babies with 8s attention span.
I agree, this layout is quite rigid and I can certainly play with breaking out of the "grid". However, your comment about "internauts" is interesting. Again, you appear to be seeing this from the point of view of a newbie to the web. It's not marketed at those people, they are not my intended audience. Look at the tagline next to the logo at the top of the page -- this is who I'm targeting; these people understand the web already.
Zyx wrote:On a 1920 x 1080 resolution, the vertical scrollbar is the only hint that there is more, and it's far to the right. So yes, it came as a possibility, and I had to manually check, which meant disrupting my reading flow (scrolling with the mousewheel or looking at the scrollbar) just to understand the structure of the page (to make a mental map, if you prefer).
You understand how a scroll bar works. You have picked up sublimanlly that there is more content because you've seen that the scrollbar indicates that. So I don't really understand why scrolling is causing you consternation. Unless the first sample is stopping exactly at the bottom of the screen as I asked above? I need to understand this to improve the user experience.
Zyx wrote:There is not internal hint that there is something beyond the first sample; on the contrary, the white space below the summary text could be interpreted as the end of a left menu if you just look at the shape, not the content.
As noted, I'm intrigued by this assumption and your non-scrolling behaviour. It's expected that users scroll. You don't have a "Please turn over" written on every page of a book.

Sorry, I hope that doesn't sound rude, I'm just really surprised to get this kind of feedback from long-time web users, it's not what I was expecting, so I'm very keen to understand more.
Zyx wrote:I hope you'll manage to understand, I feel so clumsy with my words. I can make a dungeon with a trapped beholder if you prefer, it would explain better.
A dungeon from you is *always* welcome :)
Joramun wrote:I don't like huge scrolling pages either
How do you read this forum?

I'm not trying to be flippant, I want to understand your behaviour. I think the comments from Zyx, Sophia and Joramun about scrolling and large screens is surprising -- it's how the medium works and you scroll all the time in day to day web use (you might not even realise it). For example, when coming to a new page, many people quickly scroll down to see the bottom then back to the top again to determine the length of the content (this is especially apparent on forms) -- yet when questioned, they are not even aware that this is what they did.

Something about my example page has, however, confused you all so I need to understand what that is compared to your normal expectations and normal screen reading behaviour. More input, if you have the time, would be most appreciated.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by beowuuf »

An interesting thought about branding. Apple have the very plain, single colour (white) laptop. Yet it seems exciting and new rather than plain and boring. Why? Subtle things like the stark logo, but also the subtle curves. Hence why, I think, zyx mentioned the squares. If you have a splash of colour, you can have the striaght excecution. If you have something different (the curves) you can have plainess, perhaps.

I do have my hand on the scroll wheel and will try to scroll down, but won't go to the scroll bar. Or if I have to, it takes me out of the search. This fourm does bug me - it is too long to scroll through all the forums with the wheel quickly, so I have to go across to the scroll bar. I hate having to move to the scroll bar. And also, I feel my scroll wheel inclinations are due to browsing this and a few other forums so regularly.

Also, about who you are targetting - I think poeple can be forgiven for forgetting you aren't targetting direct clients anymore. I think that's a relatively new decision. And I didn't spot the scope of your services up top :(
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Zyx »

it's 1) for me due to my resolution. I know how to consult and use a scrollbar, but I think it generally breaks the flow. You seem to say that since everybody use them and know how to use them, it shouldn't be a problem. That is not necessarily true. (ie, Qwerty keyboards are the most used yet most annoying of the keyboards).
Anyway, due to the 16:9 format and the 18" of my screen, the scrollbar is 10cm from the center. I usually have a not too wide visual field, in particular when I'm reading, so I can't subconsciously read the scrollbar status with the corner of my eyes.
That's why I think that at least one cue of the vertical dimensions of your reading area should be closer to it, not that far.

As for your targeted clients stated on the top, I missed it. Somehow I don't read capitalized letters as well as lower case; I need a fairly isolated title to read it effortlessly, otherwise it will take me longer.
However, though trained and understanding clients should be able to read your design faster and easier, I still believe that the brain has inbuilt limitations or requirements. Besides, in my experience, the people who decide to put or not the money are usually the ones with less practice and understanding of the topic, sine their work is about something else (countability). So I still think that immediate, instinctive, easy information benefits any kind of user. (Not that I could design anything I said).
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by sucinum »

Gambit37 wrote:How do you read this forum?
The forum has two different background colours for postings, i think this helps a lot.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by cowsmanaut »

are you implying that professional websites do not use dark colours or contain a large amount of creative imagery? Why must professional = boring?
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/
http://www.mgmstudios.com/
http://bigsandwichgames.com/
http://gradshow.com/
http://lucasfilm.com/
http://lucasarts.com/
http://www.virginmobile.ca/vmc/en/home/index.html
http://conceptart.org/


off the top of my head... It highly depends on what it is the audience is looking for. If you do not show creative examples of what you can do, how is it they will know you can do that?? Those which you have posted are the very typical barren examples that many places THINK they need to be seen as professional. Thing is, would you buy an album with that on the cover, or a book? or watch a movie like that? ... no.. We like to be somewhat entertained and wowed. I think your current design is profesional, easy to read and yet shows creativity. The new design is sterile.. and I have to scroll to see the remaining images.. I'm an artist.. I think in artistic terms.. when I go to a website I like things to be easy to access, but I'd also like there to be an appeal there. I feel your current design gives me both.

Don't feel like you have to have the website of a doctors office in order to get work. Show that you can do the website of a doctors office, and that you can do the website of a movie studio, and the website of a rock band, and of a video game studio..... etc... Show that it can be done and they will know you can do it, regardless of how you choose to express yourself artistically on your website.

I would do what you have now but maybe refresh the look.. express yourself in a different theme... because I in no way think your current design looks unprofessional.. and in personal taste.. I would sooner hire you with your current site, than that of the new design... but again.. that's my personal tastes.. and what do I know? ;)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

OK, I clearly messed up by showing this page without any background context. I don't sell design as in "look and feel" but as in A COMMUNICATION SOLUTION. That's what design is: it communicates a message or solves a problem. My new focus is to sell my expertise in user experience design, design that solves a problem. The styling of a website is always secondary to that -- at least for the types of sites I build.

I'm not building a portfolio site to "entertain and wow", I'm building a gallery to show off my work: my work in designing usable, functional, simple, intuitive websites. That's what I do, it's what I specialise in, and it's why people hire me.

Design isn't really about how it looks, design is about how it works.

I agree it's 'sterile' -- that was the intention: to have a blank canvas. And of course there will be other samples of my work on the site. You're all falling into the classic reaction of judging this thing on the dummy content and not the things I asked people to look at: the colour, weight and tone. Can't be helped I suppose -- it's the instinctive reaction. Web designers get this problem all the time from clients when the content has not yet been provided.

For some background information, I did originally have a very different plan for the look and feel of the site. The theme was to be based around a little paper plane. It's a particular type that my Dad taught me to make; I've never seen it anywhere before or since. The plane is a great representation of my ideals: simple, elegant craftsmanship, simple obvious function and the notion of it being aspirational (through flight, '"flying up"). I did some experimental designs (using artwork suggesting a workshop / blueprints -- to design and then build the little plane) but ultimately felt it was too contrived.

But I really needed something new to replace my old site and I'd already spent far too long on tinkering, hence deciding to go with a simple clean look.

Out of interest, what do you think of this site? Jesse Bennett-Chamberlain is one of the most respected web designers on the planet yet his own site is super basic. Check out his portfolio, he goes for the long, wide, open spaced approach too and I'm unaware of anyone having problems navigating his work.
http://www.31three.com/

Having said all that -- the comments here have made me stop and think that perhaps I am going down the wrong route with this and I should indeed re-think the creative aspect of the site's theme. In fact, since the part of website design I enjoy the most is indeed the creative, visual side, maybe this change of focus to functional design is in fact the wrong direction to be going in?

Aw, bugger. And I thought I was so sure!

I have to scroll to see the remaining images
:) LOL, what is this problem you all have with scrolling? Aren't we past this yet? It's 2010, not 1985. "Oh look, to read this book, I have to turn the pages.That sucks. It should all be on one page." You scroll hundreds of websites all the time! Web sites are a completely different medium and you don't have to cram everything into a tiny space -- that's what scrollbars are for.

Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is here as I'm really not understanding this reaction, especially from people I expected to be more savvy by using the web all the time....? ;-)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by beowuuf »

It's nothing to do with 1985, it's to do with a) as zyx said, expanding screen size - especially width ways. The scroll bar is far across the way. As I said, b) the scroll wheel doens't cut it as a comfortable fast alternative on long screens. Short screens, it's great, but long screens, it's annoying, and c) i suspect mouse set up is an issue here - combined with the above, whenI have to go across to the scroll bar, it's not a quick flick, it's say two flicks or an over-extension of the wrist to get the mouse over to the scroll bar. Its a jarring little movement that, in 2010, we don't expect to have to put up with anymore in these days of iphone touch scrolling and larger resolutions. Also, my hand tends to naturally have the mosue comfortable for clicking the centre screen, and using the scroll wheel a little. Having to have my wrist angled so the mouse is at the extreme right of screen, and worse yet them tensing whatever tendons to kep the mouse button held down to scroll up and down, is a minor discomfort, but one of those things that builds up to RSA I would imagine.

As I said, I check the forums alot, usually a quick scroll up and down to check in on my game at work when I'm waiting for something to print, something I'm thinking about to mentally digest, etc. And at home I'm usually close to a computer too. So yeah, I notice on the long forums how annoying scrolling is.

It's not a major thing (or else I would have started a campaign to collapse the forums into sub-fora long ago, which useablilty wise I don't want the compromise of doing) but it is a thing I would understand others noticing.

Anyway, it's all subjective, but that's my understanding.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by cowsmanaut »

to be honest, I didn't READ anything. I just looked and guessed at how I would use it.

Scrolling for me is ok in minimum. but ultimately I hate scrolling my way down blogs that are 30 pages or more .. even just scrolling 3 pages feels tedious to me unless it was required to make it through the info, that I requested. Your current design flashes a few previews of the same kind of content you show in 3 pages in the next one. To me the flipping images feels more intuitive, it allows me a preview and I can go to your folio if I wish to look at them longer, where scrolling is more acceptable to me though I would still better enjoy a largish thumbnail gallery I can click and choose. I've seen one guy who made little thumbs in flash that when you scroll over them they became larger giving a mini preview but with enough visual info to tell what it was you were looking at.. when they got larger the other little ones moved out of the way.. it was able to compress a lot of choice into one small area.. it was VERY nice to look through. That's a web experience I like, give me a bit of what to expect while I'm there, and let ME choose how I want to spend my time there based on that. When you make me scroll through things just to see what's going on, I feel like I'm actively sifting through a lot of info, and much of that may be something I have absolutely no interest in. To me it's a statement that you do not care to make the experience convenient for me.. you wish to make it easy for you..

Again I say that it's a very personal experience for me, and my oppinion is just that.. MINE.. doesn't mean everyone will agree with me.. however I do know that several of my friends do agree. That a website should be not only easy to navigate (ie to be able to get to any area of the website from any other part of that same website), but should give you what you need to know up front, and give you choice.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

Interesting stuff! I absolutely agree with you that the experience should be designed for the user, not against them. That's a big part of what I do. So it's really surprising to hear this reaction against scrolling when my assumption has been for a long time that scrolling isn't a barrier anymore (based on various studies I've read.) The mechanisms you discuss Cows, while appealing in some respects, have all sorts of other inherent usability and accessibility problems which is why I tend not to use them.

Dashing off to Jury Service again, but will ponder this some more.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by oh_brother »

Speaking as someone who I imgaine is significantly less tech-savvy than the average user on these forums (and solely a technology consumer rather than a designer) I was reluctant to wade into this discussion...but here goes anyway. :)

I am a bit surprised about the dislike of scrolling. Personally I don't like having to open new pages, navigate back and forward, etc. Of course if a page is too long then it can be awful to scroll, but this website is nowhere near my limit. I would vote with leaving it all on the one page.

Edit: most of the web-pages I use in work (scientific journals) are based on of scrolling. If you want more info (like opening an article) then you get a new page (or things open up in new tabs/windows).
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Bit »

Gambit - would you kill me if I say that I like the current style more than the new screenshot?
I couldn't even say why - just emotional, and surely not to tickle you!
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Jan
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Jan »

I showed the two designs to my brother, who studies theoretical informatics and sometimes he designs web-pages too, and he said something like that (well, it's not an exact quotation, and my translation is not perfect, but I hope I'll keep the meaning):

- he prefers the older version - he says it's pleasant, the layout and distribution of the "items" is good and it's generally an excellent design (except the aquarium bellow, and the fact that the white headline "I'm Matt Hill, a web..." interferes with the white bubbles)

- for the new version, interestingly, he mentioned too much scrolling too, and he says the content is too "dispersed", the page is too long

- there are many (white) "optic holes" (empty space) on the page (above the headline "Portfolio", around the pictures etc.)

So, that was my brother's opinion.


Gambit37 wrote:It's generally accepted that dark on light is much easier for people to read.
Perhaps you're right, but it's definitely not for me - but may be only because of my sight-problems, I don't know. Too much white space on the screen makes my eyes tired.
Gambit37 wrote:Lots of white tends to be seen as more professional than darkly coloured sites. My current site, with the blue background, seems "hobbyist" rather than professional, hence the new direction.
Interesting point!
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Gambit37
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

Bit wrote:Gambit - would you kill me if I say that I like the current style more than the new screenshot?
I couldn't even say why - just emotional, and surely not to tickle you!
Of course I won't kill you. Maybe I'll just hit you over the head with some spoiled fruit. ;-)

You raise an interesting point though. You said "I like....". Most of the reactions here are based on what people "like." Ultimately that's much less important than what actually works. I have to educate clients all the time not to ask for things they like if it doesn't give them what they need. "I'd really like a clock in the navigation bar" for example. I'll always respond "Does this help us achieve the user objectives we defined at the start of the project?" if the answer is "No" (and especially if they have a small budget), then generally it's a bad idea to include the feature. Less is almost always more, especially from a user experience point of view.
Jan wrote:- for the new version, interestingly, he mentioned too much scrolling too, and he says the content is too "dispersed", the page is too long
By what definition is it "too long"? What yardtsick is "just right"? Is that just a feeling, or can he back this up with empirical data? Eg, "In study ABC it was revealed that 80% of users won't scroll a page that's higher than XYZ pixels."
Jan wrote:- there are many (white) "optic holes" (empty space) on the page (above the headline "Portfolio", around the pictures etc.)
I don't agree with this. The design has been arranged in a particular way for a particular reason. The high contrast of the title is the first thing you see and the white space forces the eye to seek the next most prominent item, which is the orange text buttons on the right. This then leads you to scan down to the top of the first portfolio item. This then leads you into the flow of the page. Could he elaborate on why he thinks there's a problem?

To all who have a problem with scrolling long pages: did you look at the folio on my current site? It's exactly the same approach, excpet the portfolio images are smaller and all the same size: http://www.friskdesign.com/folio/

Any views on this compared to the new sample?
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Joramun »

Gambit37 wrote:
Joramun wrote:I don't like huge scrolling pages either
How do you read this forum?
First of all, I don't big/huge posts fully, unless they are about something I have a big interest in AND are well written.
(I usually judge by the first few lines and overall layout. Huge chunks of text are a no-go)

Second, same goes for threads. For example, the thread on Conflux is probably a mine of information,
but unless I think about something specific and so have a particular item/word I can search for,
this information is bound to lay there under a pile of dust. That's why the wiki is cool.

Now, if I imagine I'm a potential client of yours, what I will be looking for is:
- How your own site is. If navigation is tedious, scrolly, clicky or unclear, I will probably pass.
- What your realizations are. If there is something more or less looking like what I've in mind (in terms of colorpalette or layout), then GO. Otherwise, it's just a /MAYBE/.
- How much does it cost (maybe, I'm not in the business, so I don't know if it's ok to put a price tag attached to your website)

I have no clear solutions to these elements, but a nice navigation usually means:
- a very clear MENU and a link back to it always visible
+ preview/clear title for each link/tab i'm gonna have to follow (because otherwise I won't).

If I have to scroll down with no clear idea of what i'll find down there, it's not an incentive.

A good idea would be to put a grid with miniatures of your portfolio as links to the full-page examples.
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by cowsmanaut »

I repeat.. I don't mind scrolling when it's a decision of my own and not the first page. (within reason) When I go to your folio, I expect there to be a lot of info, and that scrolling may be involved. For the front page however, I expect to be greated with this "Where am I? Why am I here? and what are my options"

Think of it like a movie theater. You know you came for a movie, you may even know what movie you want to see. But.. those theaters provide a movie magazine near by giving information about the stories and elements of the various moves out now, and to be out soon, they provide large posters near the entrance telling you what movies are available and their times, they have a bunch of instant tellers or a regular teller to buy your tickets from and they have signs telling you where to go to get to what. Now.. suppose you had to walk past the cashier to go down a long hall way to get each bit of info bit by bit instead and then return back to the cashier to make your purchase? now imaging you know nothing about the theater, and nothing about the movies playing there (new clients).. Same if you go into a friendly resturaunt vs the overly expensive ones. The friendly ones will show you everything you want to know about ingreedients, prices, maybe even a little story or joke about the various dishes. The very expensive ones will usually try to hide much of that from you at first to get you in the door, and then drop the cost on you when you hit the table.. or even worse.. after you've eaten.

Those are real world examples of how we like to process our information, quick and convenient. Let me ask a more digital world question though.. how come video game interfaces don't scroll or don't scroll much? They could.. but they don't. Most interactive media is put to the user through quick and easy methods. You have your choices, it's clear what they are, and if more information is required to know about them, it pops up as you roll over that button.

It's only been with the BLOG that people are beginning to accept the tedium of scrolling 30 pages.. because that person is not a web designer and never want's to be.. but they have some information you are interested in.

Here's a proposal for you... let's start it with a simple question. Who are you.. answer: Matt Hill, web designer. Why am I here? Answer: to have you make me a website.

So, why not give me an interactive experience? Perhaps options of templates to view the website in. Much like how word press and phpbb have done.. you click the button and view the same information in a different way. Part of web presence is personal.. it's how YOU the person or company wish to be represented. In this case, you are the example. You have your folio, sure but why not make the experience interactive? Engage your client?
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Sophia »

Gambit37 wrote:You raise an interesting point though. You said "I like....". Most of the reactions here are based on what people "like." Ultimately that's much less important than what actually works. I have to educate clients all the time not to ask for things they like if it doesn't give them what they need. "I'd really like a clock in the navigation bar" for example. I'll always respond "Does this help us achieve the user objectives we defined at the start of the project?" if the answer is "No" (and especially if they have a small budget), then generally it's a bad idea to include the feature. Less is almost always more, especially from a user experience point of view.
That's perfectly valid, and I partially agree, but, there's always the issue that if you never get to the part where you have to educate them because the customer doesn't hire you, it's a moot point. I'm not going to pretend like it's a good thing, but people are not as rational as they like to think they are-- including, and often it seems especially, the ones making buying decisions. Getting the customer to "like" your site so that they'll hire you (so that you can do what they "need," of course) has to be one of the goals. It feels like a lot of this thread seems to be people making criticisms and you telling them why you don't agree and/or why their thinking is weird or wrong. While I understand you did it a certain way because you had good (or at least good to you) reasons and you obviously want to defend your way of thinking, when a potential customer sees the site, there isn't going to be this opportunity for an exchange. They'll simply see the site, get an impression, and either move on or be interested in you based on that impression-- even if the results of that impression aren't based soundly on logic or good web design principles.

If you have people thinking, "Look at the boring site this guy made for himself. I don't want a boring site like that. I'm not going to hire him," that is no good at all, however illogical it is. ;)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by Gambit37 »

cowsmanaut wrote:When I go to your folio, I expect there to be a lot of info, and that scrolling may be involved. For the front page however, I expect to be greated with this "Where am I? Why am I here? and what are my options"
Aahhhh......... right. That explains your rather puzzling post. What I showed IS the portfolio page and IS NOT the homepage.

The rest of your post was very insightful, but I do know this stuff already. I haven't been doing this for over 15 years to not know all the issues you're talking about, but I guess if you thought what I posted was the homepage, then I can understand why you wrote that.

It's possible that some of you missed the point of why I posted this up. I asked for feedback on colour/weight/and tone and this was an example page showing that. I guess I should have been clearer that this isn't the homepage.
Sophia wrote:Getting the customer to "like" your site so that they'll hire you (so that you can do what they "need," of course) has to be one of the goals. It feels like a lot of this thread seems to be people making criticisms and you telling them why you don't agree and/or why their thinking is weird or wrong.
I'm perfectly happy to take constructive criticism and obviously, yes, I will defend anything I don't agree with by offering my reasoning for why I did things a certain way. I have to do this as part of my job anyway, so I'm used to it.

Also, I wasn't expecting the whole discussion about scrolling -- it surprised me and I've learned some very valuable information from it.
Sophia wrote:While I understand you did it a certain way because you had good (or at least good to you) reasons and you obviously want to defend your way of thinking, when a potential customer sees the site, there isn't going to be this opportunity for an exchange. They'll simply see the site, get an impression, and either move on or be interested in you based on that impression-- even if the results of that impression aren't based soundly on logic or good web design principles.
If I've done my job right, then the impression the user gets SHOULD be based on logic and sound design principles. They won't realise it, because it's subliminal, but the design thinking I've put into the site SHOULD generate a favourable impression. If it doesn't, then I've done it wrong.

When I think back to the positive feedback I got for my current site, it all came from people who loved the theme and the style. They didn't much care for the functionality or user experience design, even though they were subconsciously influenced by it. These were peple who liked my style -- but invariably were very small businesses with no money. But I don't want to attract those kinds of clients: they are a waste of my time as they end up being massively unprofitable.

The learning experience of having this type of site up has shown me what I DON'T want in terms of potential clients. Companies paying the big bucks for premium web design are much more likely to care less about the design of my own site and be more interested in the solutions displayed in my portfolio. The sample portfolio page I displayed is a second level page, and each portfolio item goes to its own third level page with more information about the project if visitors want to find out more.
Sophia wrote:If you have people thinking, "Look at the boring site this guy made for himself. I don't want a boring site like that. I'm not going to hire him," that is no good at all, however illogical it is. ;)
True also. Many people are looking for a designer who can make "Wow" designs. From a purely aesthetic point of view. Those customers invariably have no cash and high level wow designs costs ££££. While I would love to churn out "Wow" designs all the time, the sad fact is that for a freelancer who needs to put money on the table, it's the corporate stuff that pays better -- and that stuff is invariable more conservative and less "Wow" because it's focussed on getting a business result. I have to show that I can build a site that gets results -- the LOOK of it really is a secondary consideration for these kinds clients.

Look at Amazon. Visually, it's a bloody mess. Yet it has had millions of dollars thrown at it, with over ten years user analysis fed back into improved user experience design. It works incredibly well, despite being seemingly chaotic and a bit messy. THAT is what good functional design is all about, so I hope you can now understand why I chose the more simplified styling for my new site, rather than making a visual statement with the site design itself.

Anyway, having said all that ---- I do think the criticism of it being bland is a fair point and it's really made me think that I have actually made too severe a call on this new direction. Perhaps I should in fact do something more visually creative and I'm already sketching out some ideas based on the paper plane thing I mentioned previously. I probably need to go back and really nail what it is that I want my brand image to be. I certainly don't want people to think I'm dull!

Thanks everyone for taking the time to share your experiences and insights, really really good to hear all this stuff. :)
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Re: New version of my business website

Post by ian_scho »

Ahhhh, the portfolio page! That makes a BIG difference to everybody like me, who thought that it was the home page.
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