Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

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cowsmanaut
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Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by cowsmanaut »

Has anyone here had to effectively eliminate a family member from their life? basically cut off contact with them? and why.. if you don't mind sharing that is...

It's come down to that with me and I go back and forth feeling like I'm an unreasonable pig, to wondering how I could survive otherwise. Rage, frustration, guilt, depression.. seems to linger.

The situation came out of the fact that my wife is pregnant, and my mother, though well meaning, went a little crazy on trying to "help". We started getting a number of gifts, some of them obviously broken and unusable but.. you know it was a deal and so cute. We requested consultation especially on large things and yet were ignored.. eventually my wife was in tears and I was suffering anxiety attacks and sever insomnia.. in fact I'm still suffering.. it's now past 3am and I have less than 7 hours before needing to leave for work.. yet I can't sleep.

so I'm wondering.. many things really. Has anyone ever had to cut off a family member?

If you start to suffer anxiety, insomnia, feel physically ill, and seeing just the title of an email from them or their name on the call display fills you and your spouse with dread.. is it appropriate to feel you need to cut them off? am I being unreasonable?

are my reasons for feeling the the anxiety and illness in the first place a little over the top?

If someone brought something to your home and dropped it off. It was too large to fit in your car, and as it turns out the item was busted, dirty and potentially a health risk.. so now you need to pay to have it taken to the dump.. would you simply accept it and say thanks because it was a from a family member? and know more would soon follow.. or would you do as I did and try to kindly ask that they talk to you before they buy anything else? if they became angry with you and call you ungreatful despite you saying you felt bad asking in the first place, and that you were trying to be as apologetic as possible.. would you feel they were justified in their anger?

I didn't.. I felt they were being very selfish. They purchased other items I had told them I had already gone out to buy, but they ignored it.. dismissed my feelings as something that would soon pass. Did not even aknowledge my comments about my wife crying for hours as a result of their actions. Instead insisted that all they were doing was trying to help.. and I certainly think they were. I believe they had nothing but good intentions.. but it is said the path to hell is paved with them. At what point does trying to help cease to be a valid excuse for negligence? Or does it ever?

Is it always mother knows best? is it their right to ignore the very real emotions of their now grown offspring?

these are things I'm seriously wondering about.. things that are haunting my brain as I attempt to sleep... and so much more as it twists and churns in my head as well as my stomach. I would like to either feel justified in my my choice, or to understand where I am wrong so I can come to terms with it. I'm sick of inbetween.. to make it all the more worse, I had to have one of my rats put down due to what appears to have been a tumor in his chest that stopped him breathing correctly. Though I'm uncertain how much influence this even had on the pressure of everything else..

I've blocked both email and phone.. just can't handle it anymore..

I could use some good advice, or a good smack in the head if I'm being unreasonable.. or even a common story just so I don't feel like I'm the only oddity out there.. some sick stuck up puke who stopped talking to his mother.
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by beowuuf »

You need to be somewhere in between. Ignoring what you say is disrespectful, and you can't any unhelpful interference at a stressful time. However, the event of a birth so large that you will be dealing with the repercussions of cutting someone out of it for many years down the line.

You need to keep her informed of how thigns are going in general, so you aren't cutting off communication, but otherwise stop answering calls and commenting on anything small. "We're too busy," as the reason, and stop.

And yes, the gift thing is weird. Again, instead of being angry, just passively send an e-mail or text saying 'thanks for the gift, we can't use it though, sorry, we're going ot have ot send it back." And that's it. Again, you can ignore anything that is an attempt to get in to a dialogue. You aren't ungrateful if someone inflicts thigns on you, they aren't gifts then. And they certainly aren't for your benefit.

Can you get any family support from someone on your side?
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by ian_scho »

Just reading your fascinating and impassioned story is enough to tell me that you are trying to be as reasonable as possible.

I won't offer any advice but you DO have all of our support and best wishes.
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by Sophia »

I don't think completely cutting her off is the right solution, personally. I somewhat agree with beowuuf, mostly, though I think you need to draw a line and stick to it. I'm not sure if being passive-aggressive about is the right approach though. Disengaging a bit to prevent yourself from dying from stress is good, of course, but having the issue lingering like an open sore probably isn't so good. I'd just stop being apologetic and be completely blunt. (Me? No, never!) Tell her stuff she's sent you is crap. It's broken, it's useless, and it's a health hazard. If she calls you ungrateful, inform her that you have no need to show gratitude for something that's causing you more problems than benefits. Maybe she'll get so frustrated with you she'll stop sending you crap... problem solved. Anyway, then, you can smooth this over when things are less stressful for you overall, and you don't have to tell your kid why grandma never visits.
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cowsmanaut
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by cowsmanaut »

I decided to route any information about baby through my other family members. so they will still have the information even if they are not directly present. So full communication is not cut off, just direct communication which is currently hurtful.

The big continuous argument came out of reasonably telling them that quite simply we'd like to be included in the decision of any large purchases. This is not even a surprise for them since it's not the first time I've asked them to talk to us about major purchases or gifts even before thoughts of baby even existed, or about suddenly dropping by and saying "hey we're coming to your house to eat tomorrow" oh.. really.. you are.. right.. Attempts to send email with detailed explanations of why it's a problem for us are ignored. Attempting to do it by phone leaves me being talked over as if anything I have to say doesn't count anyway.. being polite has me even more ignored and then when i turn angry I get yelled back at and told off, or put on a guilt trip.

I did get completely blunt. My last email laid out exactly what the problems were and that if we could not find an understanding I would simply have to stop talking to them all together. I asked them to think about it seriously, to not make a rash response, and to take a day to really think it over. I suggested the possibility of counseling. All of this was ignored and I was informed my feelings would pass by spring and it wasn't really a serious issue at all. that email was sent less than 15 mins later.

When communication fails, the only option seems to be "give up" and give up comes in two flavours. Stop talking to them, or let them have their way.. I couldn't survive letting them have their way.

My hope is that this will make them actually take the time to go back to the email and take it seriously. In fact my last response was to say that they had not read the email and had not taken me seriously. So perhaps they will do that and I don't know.. maybe take the time to see our side of things. That after a while I will be able to reopen communication to find that they actually thought about it.. I don't know if that will happen, and it's not meant to be a punishment.. though I'm sure they may see it as that.

So i see that so far the thought is cutting her off is not a great solution, though the only one I have so far... but how about the other aspect.

If family dropped off a gift that you had just told them a day before you were going out to buy yourself. Then dropped off a broken gift that was huge and a potential health risk that you would have to pay someone to come and take away. Then dropped off another gift that was also large and completely something you didn't want and all the while never telling you they were doing it.. just dropping by randomly with these gifts. Would you just accept it, or would you try to stop them?

and on the alternate side, if someone requested calmly and politely to communicate with you before buying certain items in the future, but thanked you for the gifts all the same.. how would you react to that?
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by zoom »

First of all I would say a moderate heeey! :) to your wife being pregnant. But probably slightly unappropriate right now, therefore the moderate hey..

I would send a real letter (paper version). Same content.
Emails tend to be considered as spam, nothing worthwhile one click and away it goes. Not to do with the actual message in it, but it is the essence of emails. Too easy to get to easy to get rid of. For real mail you have to open the letter have something in your hands and do not get distracted by the computer.. anyway just a thought. Since calling does not work out too well, a letter is better than an email. A letter is something special, more formal.

The situation seems very entwined and complicated. There is also a communication issue next to the purchase issues. You have no place to withdraw to, no sacred personal space - your own space where you decide all and everything - where you live and your wife. ask her what she wants when the time is ok for that topic and what she does not like about the overall situation. (collect that info, make a plan a decision. What is important for us. What things cannot be changed. What is inacceptable .. Dreams , future plans . Uncertaincies. and so on.
This could mean -probably- you might do something not ideal or even wrong and that you have to change that-- So be prepared that it could hurt you. but in the end I am sure this will help clear things up It is all about the truth. You probably did this already.
I really do not know.
Trying to change your mother won´t work.
You need room for yourselves - therefore you need to more clearly draw the line. IF this restricting of others - which is what you want in order to stay sane- has a negative flavor then be it! You love your mother I am sure and this makes it even harder. What does irritate you ? Is it the person itself? See her less
Is it the chaotic purchases? Change the communication. Oh well!

You might even INVITE HER over- the complete opposite of what you would want right now.
But you decided to invite her and not being run over and this gives you control at - if only -this !
It is no test of strength.. you probably wont be able to tell your mother all that´s on your mind face to face. You should try to slightly change things in your wifes and your favours.
Then : what beo said, what sophia said
Hope this helps. Try to not be upset over things you cannot change (right now, but eventually it does change- nothing is for ever) make the things that are important/sacred for you clear.
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Gambit37
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by Gambit37 »

cowsmanaut wrote:Has anyone ever had to cut off a family member?
You know that I have: my mum and one of my brothers.

I don't think I can offer much advice for your specific situation, as the situation was different for me. The best I can offer is that at the end of the day, you have to do whatever is best for you personally. If you need to protect yourself from other people for your own well-being, then that is what you must do, regardless of how that will make them feel. It might sound selfish, but it's more important that you feel secure in your own space rather than feeling stressed because you're trying to accommodate someone else's unreasonable behaviour.
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by Jan »

Gambit37 wrote:you have to do whatever is best for you personally
Perhaps I would add: and especially for your wife. As far as I understand it, she's pregnant for the first time, and this can be pretty hard. Everyone has to understand it - and your mother too (or even most!). In my opinion, you should do what you and your wife think is best for your wife (baby) and hope others will understand it. That's not selfish, that's not rude, that's normal and others should understand.

As ian_scho said, you have all our support and wishes! Good luck! And try to think about the baby - this is going to be the best part of your life! :P
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by raixel »

Wow...

Upon reading this I have two main thoughts pop in my head

1- Your mother doesnt seem to see you as an adult. She seems to think that you are a child who can't make descisions for yourself. Has she been like this in other ways for a long time, or did the odd behavior suddenly pop up when you two were expecting? I see in your second message it says she apparently announces she is coming over without taking in consideration what you and your wife are doing. So obviously she seems to see you as not having your own life and stuff, or has trouble seeing you as an adult. Personally I think thats a common parental problem as my dad does it to me still. Not that bad, but I can see how it would happen.

2 - As for the weird gift thing, one thought ran through my head. Is your mom a hoarder? Cuz seriously her behavior reminds me of my best friend who Ive known for 16 years and would probably be married too if we werent such weirdos (and I could stand living with him and all the crap he dumpster dives/gets from thrift stores ect). If she is, her behavior is not suprising. I cant count the times I got dirty, broken items as a gift from him, although he never did it for a serious event like a bday ect. Those were obviously the same stuff, just better quality :P. I always just went, its the thought that counts. But I also am not having a baby on the way.

Also, is this stuff coming from other family member/friend's kids that have grown out of it or has been in storage? If so, your mom might feel obligated to bring it to you if only to keep your aunt/her best friend/whoever happy.

Thrift store - Does she shop at them? She might not see the health hazard/dirty aspect as a problem, or she might feel a mother needs to bring the 'big gifts' but not have the financial means to buy new fancy things like cribs and playpens.

My advice would be to find out where the stuff is coming from. If it is coming from another person who thinks they are being helpful it might be as simple as explaining to them (and not your mom) polietkly that since this is your first child, you would like to pick out the stuff you want but you appreciate being thought of. If it is a hording/thrift store aspect, I would seriously just not take it. If she drops it off, haul it back. It might not be the nicest thing to do , but she is seriously stepping on your life here. If there was a quick cure, id happily share it with you.

Good luck! and as my grandpa always said "You want any more advice, come to me. Its worth what I charge!"
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cowsmanaut
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by cowsmanaut »

The distance of her ears to my actual mouth does not change how well she hears me.. Having her in person would be as useful as it has been by phone. She continues to talk and talk not letting you correct her misconceptions. I ask her to respect my wife .. she instead responds with "fine, I'll never talk to her again".. it's not what I asked, and it's not an acceptable response... but it's the extreme.. which is often when I get when I request something.

The purchases themselves were used items from a thrift store or via online sales (craigslist). They were cheap, and to her credit the stroller was quite nice and sturdy, but did not adapt to our needs and we had already chosen one anyway. So, not a hoarder.. She only intended to help, and I understand that. However she seems to feel the need to take over things. Her job has her taking charge of young adults who have mental problems. So every day she's in charge of several other peoples lives. I'm certain she sees us as unaware of what we need for a baby. Forgetting the simple fact that every thing has changed in the 36 years since she's had one and the fact that we have a wide variety of information from doctors, internet, baby stores(which weren't popular then) etc etc. we were well informed far before we even decided to start trying. So I'm sure her work, and her misconceptions have played a large part in this issue. However trying to explain this to her doesn't help.. and any tiny bit of the info that does get through leads to those extreme responses. "Fine we'll never give you advice", "fine we'll never talk to your wife" "fine we'll never buy you anything again" ... frustrating. Then washes of guilt of how long they waited in line or how much it might have cost or how good their intentions were and how ungreatful I am and how it's my responsibility to take care of these items now and bla bla bla bla blaaaaaa..

The fact that my requests go ignored, or worse are talked over, and the fact that even when heard I get the (basically F you) negative response in the extreme rather than what I calmly asked for and what I think I or my wife really do deserve as human beings.. it's so much more the problem than getting a large broken item that will cost me money to dispose of. However repeatedly getting items like that would drive me insane.. which was how it was looking when we decided to talk to them. The responses to me, seem very childish and it's hard to take on a role reversal with a parent. Where I feel like the adult and she the child. It's frustrating to not get a mature response.

When my wife drafted up a response, I asked her not to send it.. it was far more vicious and anger filled than i thought would have helped the situation. So she's fine with communication, just not politely.

As for my Dad.. the poor bastard... he is her minion. I sat and calmly explained the situation to him and he agreed with me.. but pointed out that he went and got us the items at her demand all the same. He promised he would talk to her, but he didn't share any of what i said.. he just told her "he didn't want them" which was not the case, and in fact it was he who took them back not at my request. So he lied to me and to her to stay out of "trouble" .. after cutting off my mother he continued to pass on her emails to me anyway and so I had to cut him off as well. In fact I'm pretty sure he's tired of the whole thing himself. I cut him off once in the long conversation (I ususally don't do that) and you saw him shut down.. trained response. I doubt he's ever heard at home..
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Re: Family.. sometimes it hurts. but what do you do?

Post by Gambit37 »

Part of the problem with unwanted gifts is that parents from the "make do and mend" generation don't understand that (generally speaking) their children can now afford to buy new equipment themselves. Again, generally speaking, we have more disposable income than our parents ever did. If you explain it in those terms, that might be easier for your mum to understand than other approaches, and you can then ask for something that isn't hard for her to get wrong: "I really appreciate that you went to this trouble, but we can afford to get these things ourselves. What we could really do with though is some X and Y."

The behaviours of your mum that you mentioned above are actually not much different from a lot of what my mum has done over the years (although in different contexts). And I'm certainly aware of other friends who've had their first child and gone through similar situations. It's not unusual, that's for sure.

You clearly don't want to upset your mum, but at the same time, you shouldn't have to put your own feelings and needs on hold just to make her feel better. However, I feel that you can't "win" here, because:
it's not an acceptable response... but it's the extreme.. which is often when I get when I request something.
any tiny bit of the info that does get through leads to those extreme responses
I feel like the adult and she the child. It's frustrating to not get a mature response.
If this is her baseline behaviour in such circumstances, it sounds like you probably can't reason with her. The best you can do is to appreciate what she has done for you, then ask for her to do something specific instead. That way, she feels like she's being useful and you get what you want :)
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