Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Chat about new breakthroughs in technology and science. Or even about cool stuff that happened in the past...
Forum rules
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
Post Reply
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by Gambit37 »

I've been a windows user basically forever.

I recently upgraded my desktop windows machine with good kit which should last me the next 5 years. I use it for everything including modern gaming. But a lot of the time I don't want to be in my office, so I need a laptop too - for when I'm writing on my website, writing my book or doing basic web design/dev.

I have a large 15" Asus Laptop with windows 10, but the battery life is abysmal and it's extremely heavy. Windows 10 is also a bit weird. In my new job, I use a 13" Macbook Pro which is a much nicer form factor, has a great screen and battery life, but I don't like the OS. I'd love a machine this sort of size, but I'm not sure about making the full switch to Mac OS, especially since I've heard lots of complaints about Apple software recently. I also hate that Apple do not know how to make a proper UK keyboard (!)

Does anyone have good advice on whether I should finally switch to Apple for my laptop? What are the pros/cons, (ignoring cost).

I know that's kinda hard to ask, since it's subjective, but opinions would be very welcome.
User avatar
oh_brother
Son of Heaven
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:13 am
Location: The Screamer Room

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by oh_brother »

I never really used Apple (except an iPad) so I can't really advise. But if, as you say, you already have a primary machine and will be using this for relatively minor tasks like typing or basic webdesign then I doubt that the OS will be that much of a problem.
User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4378
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:53 am
Location: canada

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by cowsmanaut »

In tests of apple laptops with windows, running our games and software... apples barely lasted longer in battery life than any PCs once you installed windows on them. (win 7 at the time) so despite claims of 10hr battery life, once sitting down with Maya or Crysis.. if you got 3 hrs you were lucky.. So, sticking with the Apple OS is where you'll get that power saving quality, and it comes with the unfortunate side effect of not supporting some major software and games.. so it's down to what you use it for. Also some companies will submit updates to Apple OS later than PC, depending on their primary market.. So if you don't go windows, you can be delayed in software and features, as well as bug fixes.. as someone once said.. "Apple.. Crash different" ..

Another con to the Apple side, is that they are set up internally to require a specialist to open and fix. Many components are designed to be easily broken if you are not careful. This usually means that you HAVE to send them to be repaired, where as you get something like a DELL and it's designed to come apart with ease so that their techs can come in with the part and leave quickly with the need for minimal tools.

On the pro side of Apple, the screens are usually decent quality and the metal design looks decent. They also seem to live a long time. Not talking about battery, but as tech.. they tend to last well enough.. though, since tech tends to be outlived before it's too old to run anyway.. not sure if it's a selling point outside of the fact that the seem to hold decent value when going to ebay 3-6 years after their release.. I still see macbooks from 2011 selling for $800... not sure if people are buying them.. but people are trying to sell them.. :)
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by Gambit37 »

Thanks Cows, you make excellent points, which is why this is such a hard decision.

At work where I use the MacBook, I have found that even though I don't like the OS/UI of OSx, everything seems to 'hang together' a lot better than on Windows. As Apple say, "It just works". The whole system seems better integrated, and features like AirDrop, Screen Sharing etc all seem very plug-and-play compared to trying to get stuff like that to work on Windows. Of course, I don't use those features at home... There's also things like multiple desktops and spotlight which trasnformed the way I work, and mean I no longer need a silly start button. There's lots to like about the OS, but overall I find the UI rather strange: window management in particular is very odd after 20+ years in Windows. Apple don't seem to know what fullscreen really means, and apps have a silly habit of opening new windows BEHIND the one you're working on, so stuff often goes 'missing'. These sorts of quirks are hard to get used to for someone of my long years in Windows.

I also still can't get used to Apple's inability to make a UK keyboard, and the fact they insist on removing the # key and hiding it under Alt+3. I mean, really!?? This is bloody stupid.

Interesting to read about the battery life going so low if running Windows on a Mac. I guess that makes sense - virtualisation is expensive - but I hadn't considered it.

My big problem with Windows laptops though is Windows 10: It runs like a lame dog on my current Asus laptop. However, the worst thing is the forced updates. This is a terrible 'feature' and I fundamentally disagree with it. I should not be forced to download and apply updates when it doesn't suit me, and having my laptop forced to restart in the middle of something important is just WRONG.

Several other people also warned me not to buy a new Apple in the short term because the current machines are several years old and are due a refresh.

There is a nice new Asus Ultrabook coming out soon, which is thinner and lighter than the MacBook, but it suffers from the same problem: ONE USB port and very little else. In the quest for 'thin and light', I'd rather go slightly heavier and have some useful ports thanks very much!! https://www.asus.com/Notebooks/ASUS-ZenBook-3-UX390UA/

But then you argue that Macbooks hold their value better, which is true - my current Asus laptop is only 2 years old, I paid £850 for it and they'r now going for less than £100 on eBay.

There's so much hardware around, there's too much choice, but the reality is most of it's junk. I don't mind paying more money for a decent laptop, but I still can't seem to decide if going Apple would be better for me in the long run. There is indeed a lot of web dev software that's only available on Mac, but as I don't do much of that outside of work anymore, it's probably not a serious consideration for me.

I am so confused! :?
User avatar
terkio
Mon Master
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by terkio »

I would buy a 2 years old good deal. Eventualy upgrading memory and disk.
"You can be on the right track and still get hit by a train!" Alfred E. Neuman
User avatar
Sophia
Concise and Honest
Posts: 4239
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 9:50 pm
Location: Nowhere in particular
Contact:

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by Sophia »

I've generally been in favor of Apple, and I think there are still plenty of good points about the hardware (and the OS, if it's your thing) but I can't really say too much positive about Apple at the moment. It's a just plain bad time to buy a desktop Mac. The situation with the laptops is somewhat better, but only the regular MacBook is at all current. The MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro are both out of date and you shouldn't even consider them unless it's a cheap used one. Sometimes they release new products during "back to school" time but that seems increasingly unlikely given that a lot of the shopping has already started. There will probably be new iPhones in September, but nobody knows if that means new Macs.

This site is handy: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
User avatar
Gambit37
Should eat more pies
Posts: 13714
Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by Gambit37 »

Thanks Sophia, that's useful. Basically, "Don't Buy" according to that site! Fair enough, that makes it an easy decision for now ;-)

I can indeed wait for a while, there's no hurry to change laptops right now. In the mean time, if a decent windows laptop becomes available with good battery life, I may well remain with the dark side...!

EDIT: The latest 13" retina Mac Book Pro is from March last year. I'm kinda surprised that's still considered "Dont' buy". This is exactly the machine I have at work and it's absolutely fine. Yes, tech moves quickly, but just over a year old seems fine to me?
User avatar
Sophia
Concise and Honest
Posts: 4239
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 9:50 pm
Location: Nowhere in particular
Contact:

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by Sophia »

Well, it's almost a year and a half, but I agree it's still fine to use. However, this is a buying guide, not a using guide, and I don't think there's any point to buying hardware that old when you're paying prices comparable (or perhaps a bit more, it is Apple :P ) to new hardware from someone else. In the past Apple generally updated their stuff every year so the fact they've been so lax on updating the Mac lately is not encouraging.
User avatar
cowsmanaut
Moo Master
Posts: 4378
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:53 am
Location: canada

Re: Buying new laptop - should I finally go Apple?

Post by cowsmanaut »

Windows OS = made to run on everything
Mac Os = runs on Mac...

It's easier to make energy efficient software that "just works" when you know exactly what you have to work with. Much of the Mac is built at Apple. They know it inside and out and develop it according to their way of doing things. This means less bloat from drivers, it also means it's easier to to make the cool and flashy things that Mac does because you can develop it around existing hardware support and not guess if this laptop might have that thing that I can use to make this cool transparent window easier instead of having to do it all in software.. That is, outside of the "Hackintosh" variants of the OS which allow you to run under other PCs.

Win10 is part of the new mentality of Microsoft which is "we're tired of supporting your crappy old hardware" and has rested both hands firmly around the past's neck, and continues to squeeze. You can't blame them. You're right that windows shouldn't update when you don't want it to, and you can set a 10 hr window in which updates can not happen at all. Once that 10 hr window is up, save your work, go to bed, or go do something else and come back when your scheduled update runs (though sleeping once in a while is advised). Windows wants to force you to update.. is this right? is this wrong? well.. if the update bricks your PC.. clearly it's wrong.. and has that happened to people in the past with windows updates.. yes it has. often? no.. it's extremely rare, usually issues are addressed quickly when an update goes wrong, and often it's a small issue, if at all.. it is what it is.. and there's always linux if you want to openly protest. Windows listened to most of what people said about win8 and made changes.. so, there's hope there at least..

I think, in the end, you have to decide if you want a stable environment that doesn't require regular updates for the next 4-5 years, or if you want to constantly evolve every 2-3 years. If you want consistency, go mac.. if you want to constantly move forward, go PC.

You can dual boot a mac, and you can upgrade the HD as well. For issues of USB ports, there are hubs which can be powered via plug. or compact USB hubs like this

Macs are more expensive, but they live longer.. providing you treat them well.. the retina screens can get damaged if you tend to be a bit rough with them(many posts of Rainbow stripe down the middle of the screen which is costly to fix), so just treat it with a lot of care and it should last many years. Where as PC is cheaper with the expectation you're going to sell it in a year or two and get the next cool thing.. which is kind of like Leasing a car.. people lease the car, and then change over before the lease is up, it's cheaper in the short term and they frequently have new cars. So for a PC laptop, you can get it, use it a year, sell it on Ebay for a decent price and get a new one and keep going like that. I have friends who do this.. It suits their lifestyle and they like having new and flashy stuff, and people buy the tech because it's only a year old and cheaper. The down side to this is that you have to put it up for sale either online and handle shipping and selling, or if you can find a second hand store, dealing with the haggle of price because they want their mark up which has to compete with the new versions price tag vs used. Again.. which suits you better?

Hopefully that gives you some ideas to narrow your choice more :)
Post Reply