Playing CSB again

[beowuuf]

Old dungeon, old CSBwin or corrupt download

[Ameena]

Key-wise, you want a

Spoiler

Solid, a Ruby, an Emerald, and umm...a Turquoise

, I think. Those are what you need to get through the different parts of the DDD. If you never found one or more of those keys, you'll need to go back to the right section and find them. In case you want to know which sections they're in/for,

Spoiler

Solid is Ku, Ruby's Dain, Emerald is Ros, and Turquoise is Neta

.

[Bit]

I think in the Atari-version there's one Onyx Key missing (added in the Amiga-version as I just read!), I missed that already in my game and checking with CSbuild, there is really none left and I'd need one more. Here's a hint about:

Spoiler

The Coatle's area needs two of them. The better idea to open the tricky hidden gate that opens when you got the Vorpal Blade and the Onyx Key, and not the wooden door where the key can be used too.
Important keys (Ameena just wrote it) are the turqoise key, the ruby key, the emerald key, one or two ra keys, and one or two other ones I think. Non-gemtype keys (except the gold key and the iron key) are close to the area they are needed, and you can never have enough gold and iron keys.

[Tzan-01]

I'll probably have to start over each of the 4 sections and get the keys. But, there's one area in the DDD room where there is a iron grate door with a black flame behind it. There is no lock or button to open it. I did make it to the Dragon Den. My memory must be off, but I thought that the dragons behind the iron grate doors (3 of them) blasted through the doors with their fireballs. That's not happening now, so I don't know how to get the 3 doors opened as even my fireballs aren't opening them.

Where do I get the latest version of CSBwin, I downloaded version 10.0 of both Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back. The dungeon I downloaded is Conflux III. I used a 2001 version of Power Archiver.

[Trantor]

If I think correctly, the black flame behind the iron gate leads to the door with the Ruby Key. There is an area in the DDD called "values for valuables", solve the puzzle there and you will eventually reach the black flame.

You remember correctly that the dragons in the Dragon Den are supposed to be able to knock the doors down. I remember that CSBWin used to have trouble with the strength of Dragon fireballs, maybe this problem isn't fixed yet. Your party should be able to blow the doors up, though. If not, you could try a strong FUL bomb.

[Jan]

Where do I get the latest version of CSBwin, I downloaded version 10.0 of both Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back. The dungeon I downloaded is Conflux III. I used a 2001 version of Power Archiver.

I tried it and I didn't find any problems. The problem is probably in your (un)compressing software - try WinRAR! I downloaded Conflux III BugFix5 from here http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... sc&start=0 (the exact location is http://cyberskald.com/repository/Conflu ... ugFix5.rar) and unpacked it in my Total Commander 7.0 (it includes a basic WinRAR). You can also download a free version of WinRAR from http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm or from elsewhere. I can only recommend using WinRAR for (un)compressing files!

CSBWin 10.0 is probably the latest (see http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/851 or http://dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/). But Conflux III includes all the necessary CSBWin files, so you don't need to download anything else.

I hope it helped you - have a nice time in Conflux!

The rest was answered by Trantor. Don't forget to use the Hint Oracle, it's very useful. And these doors in the Dragons' Den can be broken with fireballs, I think - probably you need to make them stronger or more of them.

[Ameena]

I think a Mon Fireball should be enough to take down one of those doors...I'm sure the dragons do it in one blast, whatever level their Fireballs are.

[beowuuf]

Oh, watch out that you aren't simply playing CSBwin from inside the archive folder.

10.0 is the last 'stable' version, versions on dianeandpaul.net have cool new tweaks, but aren't necessary. As pointed out, conflux III has the latest version needed to play it though, so you don't need to go hunting..

If you downloaded conflux, then replaced those files with 10.0 from the encyclopaedia, it is possible the dungeon will not work. Conflux tends to be cutting edge! Well, bleeding edge. Well, Zo blade 'you can't see because it's so magically weird it but it's there and will kill you' edge actually'.

[Bit]

In my clone the dragons didn't blast the doors - I did.

@Jan:
If an unpacker unpacks something you can be pretty sure that the contents is okay.
A good way for software archiving by the way. Save if once to lose not all at one time (as it would happen with a packer if one byte dies), and save it a second time packed.

[Tzan-01]

I noticed that in some of these posts instead of text there are black bars, is it my computer?
beowolf, I'm not sure what you mean by Oh, watch out that you aren't simply playing CSBwin from inside the archive folder. I have the games in a DM folder and a CSB folder, respectively.
It took several MON level fireballs from me to blast through a dragon's door but I finally got through. I finally got one of the corbans. Endless worms and in one area demons. I don't know where to put the corban now that I have one. It seems that I've forgotten more about this game than I remember. I have more keys than one champion can carry, but I can't find what they fit. Many solid, iron, key b?. There is one gold key lock that I've placed a few key in but nothing happens (I haven't saved the game there so I haven't lost the gold keys).
There is an area on the DDD level, skeletons keep appearing and I send them through an iron grate door with a push button transporter but the door never opens. What's the point of this? When I step into the transporter nothing happens.
What are the creators of these games doing these days? Do they show any interest in this site--people still being interested in these games after more than 20 years?

[Gambit37]

The black bars are spoilers -- click them to reveal hidden text that might spoil things for other people who happened to glance at the text by mistake.

Some of the ex-FTL team have popped in here from time over the years, though no-one in the last four that I'm aware of. Or if they are reading the forum, they certainly aren't contributing. I think only Andy Jaros is still in game dev, last I heard he was working at Sony games.

[Ameena]

You'll probably have tons of iron keys and keys of B, but there's only one Solid key as far as I know, because

Spoiler

as mentioned in my spoiler tags earlier in this thread, the Solid Key is the one you get from part one of the Ku path

.
As for the Corbums, there are

Spoiler

four

of them in total - they're found

Spoiler

one on each side of the Corbum Pillar, each side accessible through "part two" of the four Ways, accessible from the DDD (though for one of the Corbums you can actually sneak around from another side and thus get two in one go

.
And what to do with them -

Spoiler

Find the Ful Ya pit, on the topmost level where there's a shitload of Demons and also Lord Chaos and stuff, and chuck the four Corbums into it

.

[Jan]

There is an area on the DDD level, skeletons keep appearing and I send them through an iron grate door with a push button transporter but the door never opens. What's the point of this? When I step into the transporter nothing happens.

This is a tricky place. I don't remember it exactly, but I think the solution differs according to the path from which you come there. Anyway, you have to

Spoiler

kill the skeleton once it is teleported behind the grate door - it will either be killed automatically, or you have to kill it yourself (Des Ven).

But I might be wrong, my memory cheats me... I think I should reply CSB once again!

[Trantor]

Jan, you are correct - depending on the path you are on, you either have to kill the skeleton yourself, it gets killed automatically. Either way, once the skeleton is dead, the door will open.
But Jan, are you sure you can kill the skeleton with DES VEN? I always thought skeletons were immune to poison, so I always use some of the rocks that are lying around and throw them through the gate...

[Sophia]

This is a difference between FTL DM and RTC. In original DM, skeletons are immune to poison. In RTC, they still take partial damage from poison. (at least according to the editor, I just checked briefly)

[Ameena]

I seem to recall that Lightning Bolts can be thrown through a portcullis - was that Atari only or did it carry over into RTC...or am I just remembering wrongly and that never happened?

[beowuuf]

Early version of Atari if it did. I like to say I rmemeber that happening, but have no evidence of it ever doing it. It's like chucking keys

[Sophia]

The chucking keys thing was an early version of RTC.

[Jan]

As I said, I think I should really play CSB once again.

[Tzan-01]

I have 8 iron keys, 3 square keys, 2 keys of B, 5 gold keys, 1 RA key, 1 Sapphire key, 1 Skeleton key, 1 Onyx key, and 1 Ruby key. I thought I had a turquoise key but I'm not sure. I might have used it. I did use a winged key. Now I have to find the place where the skeletons and the teleporter is, and try and kill a skeleton. I've teleported several behind the iron grate door. I just went there and the door is opened, so I must have used the turquoise key and just don't remember it. I hate pits that look like solid floor. Where you use the winged key, that place is insane.

[beowuuf]

Hmm, I was about to detail the key uses, but realised I might be confusing myself Certainly the skeleton key is a special key that won't be used up (Except in one place) - so well found! The ruby key should keep you going on in the fighter path (remember, fighters charge). The NETA path is perhaps one of the easiest to my mind, so if you have solved the iron door we think you needed to solve, you should be able to find a corbum without too much greater stress

The keys of B (two of them, good)are used together in one place - I think to do with the junction of ways.

[Ameena]

No, Ruby is Dain - Solid is Ku .
As for the "pits that look like solid floor", if you look closely you can see the dotted line that marks the edge of the pit - it's just a bit hard to spend a few seconds doing that when you have a Flying Snake biting your bum or whatever .

[Tzan-01]

I decided to go back through the iron grate door. What seems to happen is a skeleton must step on some plate that opens the door. It was closed again, I kept sending skeletons through, suddenly the door opened. I decided to explore the area where there are blue fields and fireballs come through, and I found that it is a path to be followed. I'd let the fireball hit me (except where a wall quickly opens) then heal my guys and move forward. I'm at the corbon area where the fireballs keep coming and a floor plate keeps opening and closing. I put 8 fire protection shields on my guys but I keep falling through. (I did get 2 corbons and the master key (key from a demon) and went to the pit and threw the 2 corbons I had into it. I'm just stuck at the fireball/floor opening corbon area.

[Paul Stevens]

My goodness. I had forgotten how difficult
these things are when you don't know the
secrets.

I think that is the signature of Chaos Strikes
Back - You don't need to solve the puzzles to
win the game but it is so difficult unless you
do solve at least a few of them.

And so easy when you have solved them all.

[Bit]

I was temporary lost and couldn't remember a lot of things, still the corbum area and the fulya pit was familiar again. The time I played it first, there was no internet (for me) and no walkthrough hint.
Still I know I made it somehow - but I must say: I am not sure if I didn't use the old original dm-editor
I painted all the maps using the viewthroughwalls very often, countless bruisers of testing if walls are solid or not. Somehow (and don't ask me how, probably by debugging the editor) I made it to the datas and could reveal most of the codes. I then was fascinated how the inner mechanics worked, like teleporting a coin to somewhere, falling down a pit and releasing another action then. I should check, if I find that coin again today - with CSbuild of course, because there is no way to grab it. It's just for the engine.

[Paul Stevens]

Another way of putting it. CSB has lots of
puzzles. Most of them can be solved on two
levels. Solving a puzzle at the first level is
rather straight-forward and probably requires
preparation, effort, or timing. But a non-obvious
solution at the second level causes the
puzzle to simply disolve with no effort
whatsoever.

The non-obvious solutions are usually nearly
impossible to understand and therefore
seem random. The skeleton that opens
the ROS pit is the quintessential example,
I think. Nobody would ever figure that out
without an editor.

I remember my first time through the
four-skeletons-in-the-four-jail-cell area.
I did not know about the horn and I had
never used warcry. I solved it by getting
the skeletons near each cell and then
running far enough away that the skeleton
could not see me and therefore wandered
at random. Occasionally, one would enter
a cell and I could trap it. Took a long time
but I solved it at the first level.

[Tzan-01]

I got 3 of the corbons thrown into the pit. I'm right below the DDD room again. I'm trying to figure out where the last path is. I've been to the right, where you et the rock piles to sit on the plate. There are 2 paths there. I've been straight, through the dead end. I can't find the 4th path. CSB is much more difficult than DM.

If you have time then one can see the dotted outline of false floors, but who has time to look with Chaos, demons and worms on your butt? There's one plate that you hear click when you step on it, and if you're not quick you get completely surrounded by the ghosts.

[Ameena]

Which key haven't you used yet? From the DDD I mean - if you've done three paths you will have used three of the four path keys. So you'll have either the Solid, Ruby, Emerald, or Turquoise key left. From the sound of it you've used the Turquoise key (Neta path, where you trap the skelly behind the door and zap him to open it), and I think you mentioned having done the Dragon Den (right after the Dead End), which is Ku.
Have you done the bit from the DDD which is similar to DM's "Zoooooom" yet? That's Ros, if I recall. I can't remember what the Dain part is like, but I seem to recall you can get from one side of the Corbum Pillar to the other on one of those routes by stepping on a fake pit or something, so you can "cheat" and get two corbums at once. Meh, it's been ages since I played it last, I'm afraid - can't remember much else atm.

[Rasmus]

You will get some experience by getting hit by monsters, but the best part is that after you get hit a counter starts, before the counter reaches a certian amount of time, you get xtra experience for every action you do, depending on what the levels experiencemultiplier are on. So infact, instead of fighting those endless coming worms in the lower dungeons on csb, you can have your back turned against some creature and fighting into the air at the higher levels and level up twise as fast without killing the creature that are attacking you. This works with spells and every action you do that increases your experience.

I was quite surpriced when searching the csb code

[Tzan-01]

I really need some help here. I've used the solid, ruby and turquoise keys. I haven't found the emerald yet, have no idea where it is. I fought through the black flames to get to the area I need to go (it might be the "zoom" area, I don't know--I haven't been to that area yet). There is a pit blocking my path and I see no buttons to push to close it. So that's where I'm stuck at. But even if I get past this pit where is the emerald key?