CRPG Addict plays Dungeon Master

[alandale]

The guy doing the CRPG Addict blog has now played Dungeon Master. Some interesting comments from a first-time player, including some criticism.

Some positives he mentions: graphics, leveling system, spell system, varied attacks, puzzles, creature variety, etc.
Funny quote: "The closest I've come to pissing myself while playing a CRPG."

Some negatives: no NPCs, no store (most treasure is useless), no item descriptions (What does this amulet do? Is this piece of armor better than that one?), tedium of picking up all the thrown/shot items, never seeing monster names, and too easy to miss false walls unless you bash yourself into everything.

First of around 10 postings:
CRPG Addict: Dungeon Master

[Jan]

Oh, boy, how is that possible that a man in his "late 30s" who "(has), always have had, always will have a weakness for computer RPGs" has "never heard of this game (i.e., DM) until a few weeks ago" (Tuesday, November 9, 2010)? It's like being a fan of rock who's never heard of the Beatles or Rolling Stones.

[Gambit37]

Yeah, I found that odd too. But I read through all the posts he made playing from start to end. It's pretty interesting reading actually: as a teenager when I played DM, I didn't really think too hard about the mechanics or logic of what I was playing; I just enjoyed it for what it was. As an adult, he obviously is seeing this in a very different light and I can see how DM does have some shortcomings which I didn't really consider before. That doesn't stop me still listing it as my top game ever though!

[slide]

I agree with the comments excerpted above because while I'm hardly a CRPG addict, I have played a few then and now. Recently I played TES III and IV & thought it'd be neat to play a 'root' game. I'm amazed at how sophisticated and thoughtful this game is. I can clearly see that it was the basis for the earlier games I played - specifically EOB and EOB II.

While I'm stuck again and may pack it in this time, I do rate this one very highly and doubly so because of the originality. I'd surely rate EOB II ahead in absolute terms. There are NPC's. You don't have to make war on everything. There are changes in scenery which are very nice compared to all gray walls. Also the ending of EOB II is just plain amazing. Talk about almost pissing yourself....

(which I've almost done a few times in DM too).

Really the 'shortcomings' in DM are more, I think, from it being the first so others added ideas which is inevitable. DM has 90% of what the later DOS games had and that's incredible - almost as if the Wright brothers first airplane was a DC 7.

[RAF68]

txs

[Bit]

Haven't studied his blogs. Did he try Bloodwych?
To be honest - if I'm done with DM2 some day - that one would also be worth to be analyzed. EOB wouldn't add much to DM - Bloodwych would...
There's a fan site at http://www.alanchapman.org/bloodwych/info.html
and his conclusion is:
"Bloodwych would make a great remake using today's gaming technology. Perhaps somebody will make another sequel."

(Bit handcuffs Rasmus )

[beowuuf]

EOTB II looked good, but it cost six disks to do it, and there were one or two points where the disk swaps needed at the wrong place did my head in ALso, the NPC stuff was interesting, but not too advanced. It always bothered me you had to kill two unthreatening clerics on flimsy evidence to progress the game. Many of the DM clones have integrated this sort of complexity now. You can have dialogues and events in RTC and DMJ, and DSB and to a lesser extent CSBwin would let you script cool dialogue trees now. I think all clones except CSBWin let you have brilliant updated graphics, and even CSBwin can display different monster and wall graphics per level with some help from ADGE. Just the resolution still has to be low.

EOTB II really shined with the puzzles and the structure of the places. The twenty slot quiver didn't hurt! Nevre did try Bloodwytch, but people have always commented on it in many regards. I also have a soft spot for Istar, though I only played the second one. That had some nice in party and game interactions. The grphics were cool, though the flat world when you fought monsters was very strange! I recall sidestepping through encounters!

[Trantor]

I only skimmd through the blog posts, but it sounds like the guy is coming to some valid points. Having no NPCs and almost no plot during the game itself are probably the game's biggest weaknesses if you look at it from today's standpoint. It more than makes up for it with its atmosphere, puzzles, and terrific level design in my mind, of course, but I can see why he wouldn't like that.
How he hadn't have heard anything of DM before is a total mystery to me. But it sort of fits; I feel that DM is mostly forgotten now, and it deserves a much better status for its role as a milestone in gaming.

In general, it seems to me like the author of that blog prefers classic pure RPGs. While you have four characters with all kinds of stats in DM, the real-time approach, complete with action-oriented combat and speed-dexterity puzzles put DM into some sort of hybrid genre. It's not as pure as, say, Ultima 4, Might & Magic 3 or Pool of Radiance. This is certainly not for everyone, but I'm obviously absolutely loving it.

I think I expressed my opinions on similar games often enough already, but I'll list a short summary: EOB1 was good with pretty graphics. It lacked a lot of detail, and the level design was mediocre at best. In terms of plot, it wasn't really a step up from DM.
EOB2 was a lot better, mostly with the puzzles and different locations that actually felt different. It still didn't have the detail, brilliance in puzzles and originality of DM, but it was good.
EOB3 was pretty uninspired and boring; it was clear that Westwood didn't have a hand in it.
Bloodwych was mostly fun because of its two-player-mode. Sadly, it looked and played as if it were 3 years older than DM, not 2 years newer.
I hardly remember Black Crypt, but it left the impression of being extremely difficult. It featured some cool features like monsters being only killable with a certain weapon, or monsters only being visible if you are wearing a certain item. I'd actually like to play it again.
Lands of Lore looked very pretty, played well and actually had a decent plot, but it didn't really have much depth.

[Adamo]

I hardly remember Black Crypt, but it left the impression of being extremely difficult. It featured some cool features like monsters being only killable with a certain weapon, or monsters only being visible if you are wearing a certain item. I'd actually like to play it again.

I love these ideas!
Of course, the designer should implement them with caution (I wouldn`t like to play a level full of invicible scorpions killable only by well hidden weapon).
As for Black Krypt, I remember it was just as addictive game as EOB. You can play it on Amiga emulator. But - I never finished it because of a seriuos bug (I don`t remember exactly now - I think it was something with the badly cracking the game), wchich made impossible to finish the game.
So, before you start the game, make sure that you`re playing PROPER version.