Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

[Zyx]

hint file: all the needed structures are in a file, so the only problem is about displaying them.
what about showing only the titles of the hints when hovering over a tile, and a left click would show the full text in a scrollable div?

[megar]

As this discussion isn't essentially about Conflux, I have created a new topic here: http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 8&p=128961
Please continue the talk there, so we don't take this thread out of his subject.

[Christoph]

I've found the following issues in 3.5B8:

1. The Fur Trader didn't work any more: putting in 3 furs didn't produce steaks in the alcove. Can this happen normally? I'm not aware of having anything done to potentially annoy the trader (if this is possible at all.)
2. I'm in the trap in the Golem research room on level 8; I tried quite a few things to get out of it, also producing Plasmas. The spell apparently works, but nothing appears in my hands or on the floor.
3. I'm quite sure to have emptied the wine cellar early in the game. Later on wine bottles reappeared in the middle corridors, among them the special wine and the key, which I MUST already have taken before (no way to have mixed up saved games, because the corresponding wall was open). Can such a thing happen normally?
4. (addition) I left my game running alone for a while, coming back too late: one party member had died (lack of water, I think), all the items were on the floor except the bones. I went to the time machine, but could not bring any of the bones there to the altar despite of having a dead character with me. Those bones look like player bones, but have the description of normal bones and all four of them seem to be the same. Is there a way to actually use the time machine bones? Can it happen that dropped items disappear at normal places (some staircase with no monsters in this case)?

For the first and the last problem I haven't got a saved game, but perhaps the first can be reproduced by obtaining more furs with my current party and going to the trader again, for verification that the last problem is real I could simply count the number of SAR Wines of Titans I've acquired so far.

[Zyx]

That's strange. Sometimes the dungeon seems to mute while I'm not looking at it. I'll investigate...

[Christoph]

I'll investigate...

Wait, not exactly B8, I forgot to mention that I've installed the WIP001 to play around a bit from scratch with the Maleficients recently. I did not notice any change back then.

There's another thing which might be related: I tried to grow monsters recently for food supply, and also wanted to grow snapdragons elsewhere in the dungeon, but that doesn't work. Some time ago, I found munchers in the guild (from stored Ven Eggs) coming back from an exploration, but now such growth seems to have stopped completely. Must I be absent to trigger that? If so, for how long and how far away? I'm wondering if this happens because I'm running around in the dungeon too quickly now or if I've got my game completetly broken.

[Zyx]

Oh, if you plan to go to the end with the maleficient ones, I recommend wip002: the ending now have sound. Do you want me to release it?

growth: I think it only happens when you're on another level, and there's a part of randomness so it can take ages. By the way, muncher's eggs are not the only kind of eggs (I think there are 5 types).

[Christoph]

Oh, if you plan to go to the end with the maleficient ones, I recommend wip002: the ending now have sound. Do you want me to release it?

Oh, sure, I'd love to see (and hear) that. Do i need to start a new game? I'm not yet particularly successful with the Malefecients, they get killed on every occasion, and I can hardly get food for them.

growth: I think it only happens when you're on another level, and there's a part of randomness so it can take ages.

I thought to have been away for long enough, but it doesn't seem to happen.

By the way, muncher's eggs are not the only kind of eggs (I think there are 5 types).

The spider eggs I also left there simply vanished, probably spiders aren't allowed on level 0. I've got muncher eggs, ruster eggs, spider eggs and such. Having them in bags seems to prevent hatching. Can I also grow worms from the egg chamber eggs? Can only eggs with those special description texts hatch? There are also those eggs of different strengths around.

[Zyx]

Get wip002 here. You'll have to start anew.
For the gardening, try other spots, some places are sterile (for technical reasons).
For hatching, you need the right environment and fertilized eggs. As long as you feel a baby inside the egg and you're at a level where you know its species can live, the egg will eventually hatch.
I once planned to make the babies tamed upon certain conditions, but I think I didn't implemented it.

[Christoph]

I'm sure now that I cannot cast ZO KATH RA any more: it "succeeds", but doesn't produce a plasma. The "EMPTY PURSE" action from the copper purse seems also to be bugged: the coin count is decreased, but I don't get a coin out of it.

[beowuuf]

I had this bug occur a few versions back after a long saved game. I can't recall what the bug was in the end...I think the items are being teleported to different place. I'll look to old e-mails and see if I can see an explanation (assuming it's a similar occurence of the old bug)

[Zyx]

Maybe you reached the item limit? I'd need a savegame.

[Christoph]

I've sent you a savegame to the Yahoo and Gmail addresses I found on the forum. Wouldn't the item limit also affect the generation of new thorns from scorpions and clubs from Trollins? Those seem to work. Don't items ever get deleted to prevent such things? I think I've read something about deletion limits for items somewhere…

[Zyx]

It seems that the newest items are deleted instead of the oldest.
Thorns and club are probably set as important (non deletable), and I probably forgot to set the coins. I'll ask Paul and keep investigating.

[Christoph]

Apart from special thorns and clubs I wouldn't regard them as "important"; they can be generated in masses; I don't know how the game handles deletion, is it possible to distinguish between "in a bag", "on the floor", "in the inventory of party/monster" and can you have exceptions for deliberately placed stuff (other than having a copy, another item type which has "accidentally" all the same properties)? If so, it would be safe to delete most things dropped on the floors, I think, and mark only those as "important", which are scarce (not indefinitely regenerateable by some means).

To make it more clear: is deletion only based on age? It would be uncool to have a steak vanishing from your inventory, just because it's the oldest in the dungeon, but if left somewhere on the floor that would be OK.

[Zyx]

You have played the game for some time, there were 3000 pieces of food in the cantina!
Technical note: Some items are generated through dsa by cloning an original: the original is tagged as "important" to protect it from deletion.

EDIT: everything was caused by the item overpopulation. It will be fixed for the next release. I sent you a savegame.

[Christoph]

Oh, I always thought new food generation there would be triggered by taking a piece from the alcove. So it's technically possible to empty the canteen and eat all of it?

[Zyx]

Yes, but I should set a DSA for stomach explosion.

[Christoph]

I've seen a couple of things that might be bugs as well:

1) Crab and Coral Poleyn

I've never seen the crab reported to be there despite of searching the underwater area systematically multiple times. The Coral Poleyn was on the floor. As I first found it I reloaded a game before entering the area to make sure not having killed the monster which should hold the item by accident with spells from a distance while fighting another creature.

I found also Ven Eggs at quite a few spots where I didn't remember to have killed a Muncher before, for example in front of the stairs when returning to the air. Do any of the monsters on this level suffer from suffocation in the latest dungeon version? Is there another possible reason for their death without interference of the party?

2) Sundrier

To the left approximately in the middle of the corridor remained one lock visible while the others vanished when the spell shooters were shut down, but I didn't find another use for it. The last shooter in the row where the Black Flame is could not be deactivated, the lock also kept flashing. The game seems otherwise unaffected. Is this intentional? Did I do something wrong or miss a part of the game (like killing the monster at the Altar of Love)?

Addition: After reloading a game before I tried this, I found the same behaviour, so this is at least reproducible.

[Sealtiel]

I am having a really, really tough time figuring out what to do with the Archmaster of Mampang. It seems like things keep randomly appearing in the room, then vanish for no identifiable reason. Additionally, things are invisible; which I'm guessing is intentional, I just don't know what's going on at all here. I can keep up the fight for a pretty long time and have gotten pretty adept at dodging things but I don't believe I'm making any headway. Does anybody have any helpful hints that I could get? This one's had me stumped for 3 days now.

[beowuuf]

I haven't faced him for quite a while version wise - did you have the basic strategy down, or is this the first time you faced him?

[Sealtiel]

Nothing I'm doing during that battle is what I'd call a strategy. It mostly involves flailing around and not getting fried. I found something interesting on the floor and tried to use it, but it really just prolongs the inevitable. Nothing on the walls seems to do anything useful at all, I'm just all-around stumped. I've dealt a ton of damage to the archmaster, at least I think so, but it just doesn't seem to matter. I don't know if I can kill him with weapon/spell damage or not.

[beowuuf]

Back in the day his defenses were against normal melee and throwing of spells - the two tactics to easily kill something. I believe somewhere it mentions using a cross stratagemn - ie, he will always try to be on the opposite side of the room to you. So I beleive you can set up spell attacks and ranged attacks that will catch him when you make a move against him and he goes to the opposite side. I think being on a square where you can see him invalidates attacks against him. That was the basic strategy, anyway, many iterations back. How it has changed since then, and if it has, I'm not sure.

Are there any hints in the wiki?

[Sealtiel]

I suppose that's something I haven't really tried yet, although I have been swinging when I try to move and can't, but there's nothing visible blocking me; and I've dealt some damage that way. Whether it counts or not, I have no idea. Spells are hard to use because sometimes they just fizzle and other times they work fine, I'm not sure what triggers the change. Since it seems like most of the time my spells just fizzle out, my mana is generally spent using the lost wand to heal myself. I'll give it a shot, though. I have a ton of mon blast spores that might be well spent here.

The hard part with all that is that he doesn't really seem inclined to stay away from me. He's pretty much always right in my face blocking my movements, although there have been a few times where I'll see a spell coming at the last second, then it'll hit him and he'll appear in front of me. It just seems like there's an overwhelming number of invisible factors going on in this battle, it makes it very hard to grasp anything.

EDIT: I didn't even remember there was a wiki, maybe that'll be helpful. I'll go check and see what I can find. Thanks for the info.

[beowuuf]

Well he is the archmage! But yeah, it's probably a case of the mechanics are trying to stop you from just pouring spells and damage out at him when he is in front of you. So they will protect him by sometimes stopping you from charging, and other times stpping your spells. I think try to stay back from him, get diagonally opposite in the room, and set up blast spres traps, etc so hopefully you can blow him to gheck and get his shiny crown!

[Sealtiel]

You are a life saver, beo. Thanks again for the help, I'm not certain I would have thought of that on my own. I've never been so happy to see a death cloud! Now I just gotta look into where to go next. The last time I tried to play conflux I never even found the tower of mampang, so it's like a whole new game; no wonder everyone talks about the replayability of conflux.

[beowuuf]

As I said, there is a scroll that tries to suggest it, but even then it's maybe not obvious. So happy to help


Anyway, woohoo to your victory! And yes, Conflux is a sprawling, wonderful monster. Have you ever gone deep in to the apprentice rooms or Moria? Even if you have a while ago, I believe even more has been added to recent iterations. The last time I played I found more than I recalled before at the end of Moria, including a really cool fully animated boss battle!

[Sealtiel]

I've done a lot in Moria, but I'm not sure if I've "completed" it. I found a lot of things I didn't remember the last time I played, and it's one of the more wonderfully frustrating areas with all those stairs everywhere. I have no idea what to do with the ring, other than leave it in a special alcove. The balrog is no longer a threat, and I'm not exactly sure where to go or what to do there. I know there's a lot of pits, and I found some stairs down to a weird place that appeared to be a dead end, but it was a very long way to go for just a dead end.

I also never really figured out what to do with the council. The white chambers have been pilfered, which was painful, but it's done. There was the path I found that led to a different part of the council level, where I believe the actual councillors are; but they just kinda stand around and don't do anything at all.

I guess I'll go back to Moria, now I'm interested to see what you mentioned. Maybe I'll explore the pits down there, I love how you can "climb down" with no weapon with a high ninja level; it brings to mind a pretty cool visual to imagine the party doing that. Especially since my ninja is Elija, something about an old man climbing down pits like that cracks me up.

[Christoph]

There are maps in the wiki, megar has added a highlight function, and I've added hints there which stairs are directly connected by corridors on adjacent levels in the Moria, that helps a bit to find your way faster.

Although the One Ring might not have a useful function I suggest trying to lift the curse and experimenting a bit with it. The special alcove can be filled with any ring to keep the way open; have you got a burnt out Stormring? Two of those othewise useless things are to be found where you get OH GOR.

The immobile councillors aren't the "real" council. The Council Chamber is to the south west of the map on the Council Level. The immobile ones are probably those that can also be reached through a teleporter near the Canteen.

I am asking myself at the moment where the SAR key pit might be which is mentioned in the Oracle (which has been integrated into the map as well thanks to megar, you should really have a look at it if you don't mind spoilers).

Does anybody know what's special about the unique compass you can buy in the "shop" on level 8?

I am also unsure which armours are the best, the weapons at least show how much damage they do, but armour items are difficult to compare. How good is a SAR shield in comparison to a small shield? Is an Elven Aketon inferior to a Flamebain?

[Sealtiel]

I found that any old ring would keep that door open, but stormrings are actually kinda cool and I use them for face-punching; so mine still has charges left in it. Plus a stormring doesn't randomly jump into my hand in the middle of a fight when I don't really want it to. I meant to uncurse the one ring but just forgot to, maybe I'll do that now.

On the subject of the OH GOR spell, I'm pleased as punch that this spell is as useful as it is. Fireball has always eclipsed it in terms of usefulness, but now they seem to be more or less equal; just for different situations.

I thought I remembered angering those immobile councillors the last time I tried to play through conflux, but I suppose I'm experiencing very fuzzy memory; and yes it is through the teleporter near the canteen area.

The SAR Key pit does not seem familiar at all, so I'm afraid I simply have nothing to add here; but I'd like to add that I've always been under the impression that shields are more or less useless. The last time I played around in conflux, I remember just goofing around with a sar shield in melee and hitting monsters with it. I suppose it was a bug, but Iaido very quickly shot up 4 or 5 fighter levels in just a few swings of the shield. I mentioned it here on the forums when I found it, but after trying to re-create those results this time (I know, shame on me) it didn't work; so I suppose it's been addressed.

As for the compass, I just like how it says random things when I look at it. I kinda imagine it as a sort of ouija board that can also tell me which direction I'm facing, since the stuff it says is cryptic and largely useless but still fun to look at.

I think I'll stay away from the wiki for the time being and continue exploring on my own. I'm all pumped up after reading about things like xanathar but have no idea where it's at or how to get there, but the fun is always in getting there anyways; so I'll just enjoy the trip.

One last note: Putting materializers in the tower of mampang is evil and should be made illegal.Those tiny little corridors make them even more brutal than those monsters already are. Conflux has some intensely awesome monsters, but to this day nothing makes me say: "Oh crap, this is really gonna suck!" quite like materializers. They just seem outrageously powerful compared to other monsters, and small corridors where you can't turn to dodge their spells with a two-member party makes them worse.

[beowuuf]

I really need to play Conflux again. Sadly WIP002 seems to keep cutting off when I download it, though I do have the old B versions anc I think I might have WIP001 already.

Not sure abotu the compass, I don't suppose it synergises with the treasure detection spell somehow, does it?

Armour I don't think has changed much fro mthe DM/CSB model, so you can probably get a slight approxiomation from the DM technical stuff. I think it's the hidden powers and abilities - such as fighters shield bashing (which probably led to the fighter bug) and the spirits of the armour power - that are around to make armour interesting, rather than the raw numbers being tweaked and changed. Shields should have had a use in DM but I beleie the code wasn't finished so armour value wise they are more useless than they should have been.


The immobile councillors aren't the ones you need to find. On the councillor level, there is a meetng session with 'vexirks' visible. These are the councillors you need to confront. You need to find a sneaky way in, and the key to success (haha) is through the white councillor chambers (the white ones are invulnerable, but the other'vexirk' councillors can be beaten and one has something useful). You are looking for the big cross area beyond the emeral level, or looking to successfully negotiate a trial twice.


And yes, materialisers are evil if you don't have vorpal blades. They have spells, they are immune to normal weapons, immune to des ew spells if they fade enough, and then they can pursue you through doors!