Early Inquisitor and a few other questions

[Monoven]

I've just arrived at level 11[12] and I'm toying with the idea of just taking the Ra key(I think you only need to fight two Animated Armors and a Materializer to get to it) and going back to the Tomb of the Firestaff. If memory serves me correct I can get pretty much everything on that level except for the Firestaff itself with those keys. It seems like it might be interesting to have some of the stuff there like the Inquisitor to clear the rest of 11[12] but some of the numbers I've seen indicate that the Diamond Edge and Hardcleave are better. So my questions are:

1. Does my memory serve me correct on the key location, level 6[7] doors, and the number of monsters?. DM web says yes, but DM web hasn't had the best track record on my Amiga(now 3.6) playthrough.

2. Is the Inquisitor and some of the Turquoise Key items all that special to have them for an extra level?(I might also be able to open up the second express stairs to get to the fire elemental training area on 12[13] but because I have a bad case of CRLGD* almost everyone in my party is UM Master or better in all skills which is probably plenty to beat the game).

Thanks!



*Compulsive RPG Level Grinding Disorder

[Jan]

You're right. You really can grab the RA key on the 11/12 level and go back to 6/7. See PaulH's "avoid the second part of the 11/12 level" trick. So you can either return to the Tomb, get the stuff including the Inquisitor and go back to fight the monsters, or continue with Paul's trick (I won't spoil it here, but I guess you can find the solution yourself with some thinking - how to avoid the second part of the 11/12 level?).

IMHO, Hardcleave and Inquisitor are the two best weapons in the game. I always prefer Inquisitor because Hardcleave is so bloody heavy. It's a shame that it comes so late.

The Turquoise Key items are pretty useless.

[beowuuf]

Boots of speed on a full party are cool to have for as long as possible

[Ameena]

I like Inquisitor the best - its Thrust attack is pretty fast for a high damage output (in fact, the Thrust attack in general is this. hence why I use the Rapier, then upgrade to the Delta Blade and pass thr rapier to my other character, then upgrade to the Inquisitor and pass the Delta Blade over...not that the poor sword gets much use, considering how late in the game you get it ) which is always good - Hardcleave I just find too slow. Yes, it can do massive damage, but you get a lot less attacks with it in the same time you could have more goes with a Thrust attack.
What's the "avoid the end lf Level 12" trick? I thought you had to go to the end of that level since that's where

Spoiler

the Master Key

is. I feel as though I've already read about this trick somewhere on these forums, but ages ago so I've forgotten it. About the only thing I mae sure to do at the end of that level is

Spoiler

not use a Skeleton Key, but save it for Level 13 as there's one too few and I have no desire to return to horrible nasty Level 12

.
Monoven - Um Master level is plenty enough to beat the game . Usually both my characters are around Adept-Expert in most things, with one having a three "free" Wizard levels due to wearing the Pendant Feral and wielding the completed Firestaff (thus putting him around Lo/Um Level, usually).
And yeah, the stuff you can get for the Turquiose Key is pretty rubbish .

[terkio]

Inquisitor is my favorite.
I wonder about weapon damage with highly boosted fighters under strenght potions.
When over 200 strengh, they hit so hard, I do not see much difference from the various swords.

[Jan]

What's the "avoid the end lf Level 12" trick?

Spoiler

Once you get the RA key, you go back to the Tomb, go through (you can do everything except getting the Firestaff), open the secret staircase, go to the Chaos level, make a few steps, find the appropriate stairs and go up to the Materialiser level, where you find yourself right at the alcove with the Master key, grab it and use the same way back to the Tomb to get the Firestaff. So you can avoid the whole second part of the Materialiser level including the area with regenerating spiders.

Simple, isn't it? Courtesy of PaulH.

[Ameena]

Ahh...wow that is actually pretty damn simple, lol .

[PaulH]

Note RE the Inquisitor - has a weapon strength of 58 compared to the Hardcleave's 70.

[Seriously Unserious]

And yeah, the stuff you can get for the Turquiose Key is pretty rubbish .

I'd agree that most of them are rubbish, eg who'd want a spent dragon spit? But one door actually does have a couple of decent items behind it, the flamebain and the bolt blade. With all those fireballs up ahead, having the extra anti-fire could be a real live saver, and about 14 "free" lightning bolts doesn't hurt either.

[beowuuf]

The dragon spit with added spit is a littel better

(Now can't recall if someone found the code in the graphic.dat for it, or if it was coded in a custom dungeon)


And I still vote boots of speed for a four man team! *zoooooooooooooooom* *runs over pits*

[Seriously Unserious]

yeah, I also like the boots of speed, as they can be very useful in any sort of timed puzzle, especially when some of your party are starting to get a bit encumbered. Of course, that also means you have to take off your fancy Greave of Lyte or Greave of Darc, or whatever, and risk injuries to your characters' feet, especially the fighters in front. That can kind of kill the benefits of the boots of speed. Still, if you believe you'll be fighting you can always take off the boots and put your armor back on, and change back when you think you're past most of the fighting or know you'll be in a speed sensitive area.

[Ameena]

I find armour to be basically useless, and will only wear what's light enough not to put my characters in the yellow - if anyone ever goes into the yellow, I'll rearrange their stuff so that they're not before I carry on.

[Seriously Unserious]

Really?

I thought so until I accidentally crashed into a wall with 1 of my front characters being Daroou and the other being someone with some cloths/armor on (don't remember who), the guy with the armor took only 1 damage, while the naked Daroou took 2 damage. The next time I got into a fight with a monster, I noticed Daroou was taking more damage with each hit then the guy with the armor on. I've also noticed that characters the lighter the armor on a particular body part, the more likely it is that that part will be injured whenever the character takes damage.

So basically, armor reduces damage, and reduces the risk of injury. So, when deciding between speed or protection I consider how many monsters I'll encounter, how hart the monsters I've been encountering in the area have been hitting my characters and how important speed will be. So if I'm playing csb for example and am on the Ku path, I'll go for the best armor I can find since I know I'll be fighting lots of powerful monsters, whereas if I'm on the Ros path, I'll go for the best speed I can get since I know there will be many area where speed is key.

[beowuuf]

I've always said that I noticed the difference when fighting a golem, need to test that again at some point. I think only the shield code got ignored, not armour in general.

[Ameena]

Well, armour does help, but I still favour lighter stuff over heavy stuff since as mentioned I don't like either of my characters to be in the yellow. Getting hit by monsters isn't usually much of an issue, since I tend not to let them do that. Sometimes this can be a bit tricky when spells and corridors are involved, but generally I don't really have epic amounts of trouble when I'm wearing shit armour .

[terkio]

Indeed, armors and shields are disappointing.
I prefer all leather clothing rather than Lythe and Darc stuff which is too heavy.
Recently, I played with caracters boosted with strenght potions, then heavy armors are no burden any more.
I think DM is not tuned right about armors and shield protections ( not enough effective ).
Not tuned right about wisdom and strengh potions ( too much effective ).
This I was not aware the first times I played DM. After many plays I saw ways to make the game much easier, the gameplay became not so good.
Another aspect I don't like.
Fiddling with save games.... Save fight, if dead then reload. Again and again.....Well, I' d rather play than mess with saves.
There should be a save penalty ( some other games do ) or saving, only allowed when a level is completed.

[beowuuf]

See other threads on why this punitive method goes the other way and makes something that should be fun a chore. so not only do I lose the fight, I lose resources and the positon, or have to go through the whole mess again?

At least saving when you want with no penalty means if you lose progress, it's your own fault. And you don't need to restart after a death if you want the game to be harder - fight on! If a character drops, you pull back, recover, press forward, kill the critter, recover the body, and restore them after question for thew Vi altar. There's your penalty for losing and your added difficulty, no need to make the system itself be punitive for no good reason.

I've played too many version of the game to recall how good/bad the potion stuff is. I seem to recall that keeping thigns topped up to 170 all the time in various scores is too much effort, however I forget which system I did this most under. It could be the decay under DM is too slow and makes it easy, and it was RTC or CSBwin where the effects drain faster.

[terkio]

That was RTC where I boosted my two fighters with strengh potions and my two wizards with wisdom potions.
It was easy to keep them over 170. Fighters were hitting damn hard with inquisitors and so did wizards with vorpals.
I do not know about this in other versions.
I recall using strenght potion in CSB Atari to enter the upper Ku levels, I think ( that was so long ago ) it was vanishing much faster than in RTC.

[beowuuf]

Ah, ok, I think normal DM has that two parts then, a faster decay, but also there are decreasing gains in boosting. So you can burn MON potions keeping at 170 as there are decreasing gains after @120. I think DSB mapped this behaviour.


It's interesting our thoughts on saving since, as I said, we've just had a thread decrying the practice in in modern shooters of restricting our save points, typified in Farcry 3 where there are checkpoints that also undo your progress. You should post counter arguments in that thread if you haveaa moment!

[terkio]

I did not continue my bit about savegames, here, because I realized I was going off topic.

Sure I am interested about thoughts about saving strategies.
Please point to me the most appropriate thread. I did few searches but got confused.

[Gambit37]

You probably want the Silly Game Mechanics thread:
http://dungeon-master.com/forum/viewtop ... 51&t=29465