Dungeon Master for iPad

[itssupe]

Sorry for Cross Posting. I wasn't really sure where to post ......

We are happy to announce the release of Dungeon Masters for the iPad.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dungeon ... ?ls=1&mt=8

This has been a real labor of love in developing this. Several of us have loved playing Dungeon Master on the Atari ST. After many failed attempts on our part, we have finally realized a version that matches the thrill we had playing the original game.

The game uses the touch in the place the mouse, pick up items by touching them. Use a second finger to select characters and drag the items into inventory. Doors can be opened using touch and keys can be put into the locks by dragging them into the keyholes. We have tried to recreate the play from the Atari ST by using mulitouch.

The App is avalible on the Apple AppStore. This is our first release, hopefully we will be able to add features such as creating custom dungeon. Please Note, the app currently has issues with the iPad 1. Works fine on iPad 2 and iPad HD.

Hope you will all enjoy this as much as we do.

[Gambit37]

It pains me to raise this as I'm sure many of us would love to see DM on the iPad, but.....

Do you have permission from FTL Games to use their assets and sell them?
Do you have permission from the creators of DM Java to use their assets and sell them?

If not, you're in for a lot of trouble.

[linflas]

It's pure rip of DM Java, which is a free clone of DM. And I see also that you sell it (even if it's just $1.99). No way ! This is absolutely scandalous and shameful. I really hope you'll have a LOT of trouble.

[beowuuf]

I don't think you can release a free app on the iPad, can you?

[itssupe]

We waited close to 3 years for this to come out for the iPad. Being fans of the game, we even asked around about the game to see if anyone was coming out with it. We stated development to get the game for ourselves, and have only put out to recoup costs for development. For more background on this:

1. We contacted Doug Bell several times and had some interest from him in the beginning, but then he seemed to lose interest.

2. Yes we did use the DM Java as the base, but really you cannot use Java code in IOS. This is a complete redo. If it were that easy anyone would have done this.

3. Why are we charging? We have spent a ton of money getting this done. At this point we are trying to make back our development costs. If at some point, we make some money, we will use it to add features like a map editor.

Hope this help you understand. We have really done a fair amount of work to get it to this point. If you find any issues, please email us and let us know. We have even set aide money for any problems folks have with the app.

The bottom line is, we are not trying to make a killing off of this. If we make money we will be putting it back into more features everyone would want to see.

[Gambit37]

The main problem is that it seems you've used assets which don't belong to you, without permission.

The DM Java assets cannot be distributed for money and it looks like you've used all of those in your game. If you've not got permission to do that, then you'll need to pull your app from the store until you can come to some agreement with the owners of that artwork. The user named Cowsmanaut on this forum did many of those graphics so you should discuss it with him, and the original DM Java designer Alan Berfied.

In addition, you're using the opening doors of the dungeon ripped directly from the original game. While I appreciate it's a 25 year old game and it may seem OK to do something like that, you can't take assets from other games and sell them without permission from the original copyright holders. Did Doug Bell / Wayne Holder give you permission to use those images?

I know a lot of fan-made games use images from the games they are paying homage to (indeed, I've done it myself), but it's generally accepted that this is OK as long as no money changes hands. Once you start charging for the use of intellectual property that belongs to someone else, it becomes a whole other ball-game.

I'm sorry but you're not on very good ground here. I think the best you can hope for is that:

1) Cowsmanaut / Alan will allow you to use the imagery from DM Java
2) You re-design the opening doors yourselves

If you are unable to get permission to use the DM Java graphics, you will need to re-design ALL the images in your game.

[cowsmanaut]

I did not give permission to use my work for sale, infact I've expressed clearly more than once to those who've asked that if people want to use it in free versions of DM, no problem but not for personal gain. This especially pisses me off, it's that people feel they can use any artists work without their permission as if all art is free to use. Forget the hours/days/weeks we spend making it or the years of training we need to expend learning to make useable graphics in the first place. Alandale and I worked hard to make DMJava what it was. You simply CAN NOT go ahead and use other people's work and then try and get money for it. I don't care how much time you put into programming.. you did NOT do those images.

Much of the monsters in DMJ were done with POVray by Alandale himself, though he admitted that some were just attempts to make the initial DM graphics more highres by using smudge and a bit of painting meaning that those are still really the porperty of FTL and Andy Jaros himself. Their base being the original. The walls were also done in POVRay and cut up to make the graphics there. Many of the portraits were either done by myself or were pulled from sources around the net. So even if Alandale wanted to give you permission, he can not for ALL of the images. As for bits of the dungeon graphics, spells, parts of interface, some portraits and the dmj intro those were mine and because I was never contacted regarding this I'm inclined to say no for the simple reason I'm tired of people using the work of others for free.. and your comment that "we set aside money" in the possible case someone gets upset? WTF? you wait to see if anyone get's pissed off and hope that throwing a little cash their way they'll shut up? No, that is an entire lack of respect on your side. You contact the artist and let them know what your intent is and see if they are willing to work with you or allow you to use the images as is. Period.

Either do NOT charge for it, or redo the graphics... and next time.. learn to respect artists.

[Paul Stevens]

Does the Apple AppStore care about these things?
I would think that a word to them would be sufficient
to get the thing removed.

I see that other copyright holders are a bit upset
that the AppStore is selling copyright material without
the author's permission.

At:

https://www.apple.com/legal/contact/

There is a pulldown menu with the option :
"Claim of Copyright Infringment"

[Gambit37]

I think the above link is for general infringements. For Apps, use this direct link here:

http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/appstorenotices/

[Sophia]

I don't think you can release a free app on the iPad, can you?

You absolutely can release a free app on the iPad.
As I understand it, making the app free would not actually solve the underlying problem, but it could make the whole venture less egregious.

[Seriously Unserious]

IMO this topic is spam posting.

@itssupe: before you take on a project like this, make sure you have written permission to use the assets you need to make it happen, or design your own. Otherwise you are first of all, putting yourself at a huge risk of being sue heavily, and second, are stealing other people's work.

[cowsmanaut]

I see it's the end of the day and the app is still up on the store..

Ok here's the deal. Just had a heart to heart with a programmer. To ask what costs might have been incurred.. just to see that I wasn't being to harsh on this.. 'cause I'm still very angry about it.. and people at apple are going to be contacted since it still appears to be up.

Development costs you must be referring to is nothing more than time spent. However, as you've started with all the DMJava source code and assets. You've cut all the work out.. it's just mindless porting of code clearly commented and drawn out. You do not value the work that Alandale did both in artwork and code, you do not value the time and work I put into those graphics I've done for it.. nor that of the others as well. However you expect us to appreciate your time? WTF?

Once again, I do NOT give you permission to use my work.. and you do not have permission to use any of the other work in there either.. not sound nor graphics. Even if you got permission from Alandale himself for his part.. there are only a portion of the graphics he's done which are not taken from the original game and made higher res.. or used from google search for characters. One of many reasons he himself didn't charge for the game.

It's like stealing your neighbours lawn mower to go mow peoples lawns for money and arguing to the police officer that "Hey, I've done a lot of work here" I don't think he's going to see your side of it... and yes, what you are doing is theft.. Just because you have free access to something, doesn't make it yours to do whatever you want with it.

The real issue here copyright infringement.. You remove the game for now.. get your own graphics and sound done for it, and re-release.. you're golden. No problems.. As for DM not existing for ipad.. it will.. it's called Grimrock. They made their own code, sound and graphics. That's how you do it..

Anyway, Contacts with apple are in process.. I'd suggest you take it down before it goes bigger than it has to.

[alandale]

I'd just like to add that I wasn't ever contacted about this. I don't have a problem with the source code being used as a basis for new games / platforms, but the artwork is another issue entirely. As Cowsmanaut said, much of it is not my own creation and is therefore copyright various other individuals and FTL. Charging for it is clearly illegal. Even using such art in a free game is illegal really, though it's less likely to cause complaint.

I would suggest you pull the app, recreate all the artwork, and then resubmit. If you don't pull it yourself then Apple certainly will at some point, which may cause you other problems.

Edit: this applies to the sound effects as well, most of those are taken directly from the original game.

[Seriously Unserious]

looks like DM: Ipad has been taken down now.

personally I think this topic should be locked at this point.