[Custom dungeon] Underverse [RTC] [Saumun]

[Chaos-Shaman]

There is a fulcrum, ah that'd be nice to have in the mind. Being lost is expected but this feels more than that, more like desperately lost.

Right now, having got some food, I'll feed three of them, one of them will starve until I find that area that respawns something to kill, then things will be better. Knowing you Saumun there will be no water nearby as the party thirsts from killing for food.

I am stuck with the

Spoiler

room with a pit and moving blue haze, and also stuck where the black button, armor on floor with a blue haze stopping me

[Chaos-Shaman]

I just one to say one thing, I hate disappearing switches , walls and pits, messes a persons head up good

[Sambini]

Success! I have retrieved the helm and axe!

Now for the 3 square key doors with the rune behind it... the only key left seems to be the one flying back and forth between 2 blue hazes in a room nearby, can't figure out how to get it out and I have explored the entire area as far as I know, any hints on this one? thanks again!

[Sambini]

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Never mind Saumun, I just asked Chaos to help me and he told me to throw something at the key while it was between the hazes and I can't believe it actually worked! (he didn't even have that room in his dungeon lol)

Now I have 10/12 runes I need to move onto the next section (I can't remember which ones were the first 6 so I will just list them all): Um - On - Ee - Ya - Ful - Kath - Ir - Gor - Ku - Dain. I assume I have to go back to the area with the primary colored door and try to figure something out.. I'm going to work on that a bit now and I'll get back to you

[Chaos-Shaman]

When you head back Sambini I think the

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runes open up to a long hallway that encompasses the entire dungeon and leads to new areas, or at least that what I experienced

FINALLY, FOOD! , only have two chests but will try and fill them up,

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killed the dragon, opened the ornate door but there is a yellow haze stopping me from getting an opal gem, I'll wonder around some for more food, FOOD!

[Sambini]

I just retrieved the Des rune and need one last one... I believe it is behind a door that requires an onyx key (near where the zombies were I believe) outside the area is a hallway with the "Hail to the Thief" inscription and a fireplace... Just spent a long time looking around but I couldn't find anywhere I hadn't already been besides that door. Saumun can you help me find the onyx key to open it ?

Side note - I think I already got one onyx key and opened another area down the hall from the garden where there was a rune, I guess there is a second somewhere?

[Chaos-Shaman]

How long does it take for the worms to spawn again? Is it worth waiting?

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need help with the yellow haze opal gem, and where to use it. there is also a blue haze with a black button, no idea how to deactivate the haze. I have a sapphire key and a dungeon key.

What I'd do for a map. No stairs either, so who knows where I can be

[Saumun]

Been on night shift, so couldn't reply last night.

@Sambini...

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It seems you're just missing the neta rune, which is indeed just beyond the four zombie rooms. There is a second onyx key.
First though... have you stolen the coin from the zombie in the southwest room yet? I mention this because if you look at some posts on the previous page, there is a potential problem here. This has been fixed in the latest update, but could affect you.
If you have not tried it yet, make sure your mouse hand is EMPTY when you click on the zombie. Clicking on the zombie with an object can cause a dead end and you won't be able to continue. You'd have to reload an old save.

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Now to the onyx key... Since i don't know which one you got, i'll try to describe the locations.
Do you remember a largish room with eight coin slots? You will have exited via a door with a pad in front of it. The first onyx key is west of here. You pass a room with a pad that spawns skeletons and then go north to a room with a demon. The key is in this room, but you need an iron key to get in (the iron key is directly east of this area.

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The second onyx key is not far southeast of the area i just described. You open a wall via two blue switches, then move along until you reach a room with a slime devil inside. There are alcoves appearing and disappearing along the walls. You have to snatch the key out of one of them.

@CS...

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There are three rooms around the edges of the fake wall area. All are opened with brass keys from the alcoves scattered around. You've obviously completed at least two of the rooms to have opened the door to the yellow haze. One of the rooms has an ebon gem in an alcove. Put the ebon gem into the yellow haze to get the opal gem.

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As regards worm spawning... The generator only spawns one at a time, but is a pretty short recharge (around two minutes). The triggers are just inside each brass key door.

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The blue haze/black button... If it's the place i think it is (south of the fake walls), then it's the same as the magnifier trick in the northern wing. There is a very tiny switch in the small room to the south. Use the magnifier to enlarge it, then press it to turn off the haze. If you dropped the magnifier from the northern wing, don't worry... There's another in a chest nearby. The black button opens the door near the fake wall area.

[Chaos-Shaman]

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There are three rooms around the edges of the fake wall area. All are opened with brass keys from the alcoves scattered around. You've obviously completed at least two of the rooms to have opened the door to the yellow haze. One of the rooms has an ebon gem in an alcove. Put the ebon gem into the yellow haze to get the opal gem.

Are you kidding, how would anyone know this. You made this really hard man. You figure gems go in gem holes unless otherwise hinted at. Damn.

I did not see a

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tiny switch, I have two magnifiers

[Saumun]

It IS hard... It's supposed to be. Deliberately so.
I refer you to a post on the first page.

think i maybe should've pointed out that this was never meant to be an entry-level, or even medium difficulty dungeon. It is as i intended... Big and tough! I don't say this to deter (obviously), but think it only fair to warn.
In other words... It's going to get harder.

Warning was given!

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If you mean the place with the haze that appears when you try to approach the black button (with leg armour under it), then the switch is in a small 2x2 room just a few steps south.

[the master]

CS. That tiny switch is there believe me. It does take a bit of spotting and is a little unfair on the player unless it's pointed out that there is one there. Agree about the gems. Think a few hints by Saumun wouldn't go amiss sometimes. It's okay for the programmer to put these things into a game but sometimes he/she has to realise that the player can't second guess everything. Here is some of the things I dislike in dungeons.

Creatures that reincarnate, except for food.
Small switches as there are literally hundreds of walls in which to hide them. Levers are better.
Fake walls. Okay if the dungeon has a map scroll earlier on.
Unlogical puzzles that only make sense to the programmer.
A lever or pressure plate that activates something in a completely different area.
Speech between the characters would be good. Something like when you pull a lever a character pops up and says "I think that's opened a door back there"

I would like to see more scrolls with cryptic hints.
Wall script. Such as RUN or similar.

[Saumun]

Again... The lack of clues is not an oversight. It's deliberate!
Set out from the start to make it huge... and nasty, and certainly won't be to everyone's taste.

From a dungeon builder's point of view... You simply cannot make a dungeon that will suit everybody. You make the sort of dungeon that appeals to yourself, and hope that maybe others will enjoy it.

[the master]

Don't get me wrong Saumun I am absolutely loving every minute of this dungeon. The worst part of any dungeon believe it or not is the end as you have by then probably been playing it every day for weeks and you think, now what am I going to do. I must admit that I am not the best dungeon master player in the world, probably the worst. I do "sometimes" ask for clues when I have thought of everything I can and still cant come up with an answer. I think my worst trait is that I never map a dungeon and often, very often in fact, get completely lost. I have every admiration for people like Saumun that sit down and think up these massive dungeons with all the puzzles and creatures. It must take a lot of doing and of course without Saumun and others there would be no Dungeon Master Forum. So thanks again to you Saumun and all the others out there.

[Saumun]

Some map, some don't... but even making a rudimentary map is always useful. Doesn't have to contain every detail. Just enough to get from place to place easily. Obviously a more detailed map may be handier, but of course takes more time to make.

[Chaos-Shaman]

I found the tiny switch, the

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the first magnifier I used did not work but I had a second one and it did

So you are deliberately not giving a map and using illogic, if so then if there are any more of those illogical puzzles, it would be nice to have a hint to it. The player runs out of food if they have to try all their items in an illogical way. Just imagine if all the puzzles were like that, like an apple for a red keyhole, well there is some logic there with the colour at least


Really tough dungeon without the illogic Saumun. Just a little text would make a difference. I doubt without you helping others that nobody could finish the dungeon. Perhaps that is what you were striving for. You succeeded man. Promise you'll be more kind when building dungeons next time.

Right now I can't escape the stupid pit area, I need a

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wing key

and I need to get out and find my way back for more food, the worm rounds don't give much. Trying to figure out what the dungeon looks like. It is obvious that you teleport constantly, well done. The map you have must be great, how about giving us a slim down version with just key areas defined. I am leaving zo kath ra spells to try and help navigate, must have a couple hundred lined up so far and still I feel lost.

[terkio]

So far, I have completed all Saumun's games without helps nor clues ( Dark Reign, Dark Reign 2, Chaos Mirrors, ? ).
On some puzzles I got stuck for days, but overcame. That's my way to enjoy these games, mapping all, accuratly.
I stopped testing underverse because of other duties at that time, I had reached very close to entering the hive. I bet I would have completed "Underverse" as well.

Solving games whinning and begging at every step is just non sense to me, like adventure games that ended up, published together with walkthrus.

I understand everybody is free to play games as he wishes, but solving puzzles, peeping at the solutions is plain non sense to me.

[Sambini]

Thanks for all the help Saumun! I found the place you spoke about with the green slimes and have now moved on.. but you guessed it, I'm stuck again! lol

Spoiler

So I used the onyx key, and I am now standing in front of the final rune, it is behind a square of blue hazes with walls at each corner of the square. Outside the room is a maze area with fireballs shooting around and ghosts lurking. As far as I can tell I circled the entire area looking for some sort of switch or button to drop the hazes but I can't find anything. I'm sorry if this question has already been asked, I looked back several pages on this thread and couldn't find the answer any where... maybe the answer is obvious and that's why no one asked

As for what the others have commented about, I am inclined to agree to an extent. Like Master said this game is amazing, and I am thoroughly enjoying all of it. I love puzzles and riddles and I love a challenge so this game is right up my alley. What I would suggest, and what I think they are suggesting also, is that there needs to be some direction at certain parts of the game. I enjoyed the scrolls with hints and the hints on the walls, for example "backs to the wall" was something really fun to figure out and do... but there are some cases where there are obscure situations that do not have any hints and can be frustrating to the point of quitting for some. The hints don't have to be direct answers, just something to point the player in the right direction. I also agree with Master that an indication of what certain trip plates/switches/levers do would be very helpful. If I am being honest I don't know what half of the switches and stuff are actually doing, I just hit them because I know I should but sometimes there is no clear connection between a switch and a wall opening or door or button being revealed. It is not necessary 100% of the time, but with such a huge, elaborate, and confusing dungeon it could be really helpful. If there was unlimited time and food wasn't an issue, I can see how these extremely difficult situations could be more appealing.

Anyway, I don't want to take away from the magnificence of your work, because it is truly an amazing dungeon. I play very modern games and never thought I would be so obsessed with a game like DM that has been out since before I was even born lol! So ultimately I think you're doing a fantastic job, and I really appreciate you being here to help me when I get super stuck . If you feel this is the difficulty you want the game then that's what really matters, but as the creator you might not realize how truly difficult you have made it to people who are actually playing it. But as long as I have you here to answer my questions I'm good

[Saumun]

@Sambini...

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You need two coins to open the way to that rune. One from the zombie and one in a chest close by.

@CS...
*Sigh* Okay, again... It was DELIBERATELY made to be hard as nails. I have put many clues and such in other dungeons, but quite consciously decided to put fewer in this. Like CSB is to DM... harder!
I'm happy to take whatever criticism comes along, but I think being told in no uncertain terms that a dungeon is very hard, and then complaining that it is too hard is a little unfair. Warning was given that it wasn't for everyone!
Also... I'm not sure putting a gem into a haze that already contains a gem is illogical, but i do accept that the gem is quite hard to see (though the first opal gem was in a haze too - you found that one). In the Ros path of CSB, a door opens if you're carrying a green gem... No clue... No gem slot.
And of course, you must see the dilemma i had. In testing, Terkio finished the first 70% of the dungeon (everything before the hive) with zero help and zero hints... So the question for me was, is the dungeon too easy, or is Terkio too good. How to strike the balance? In the end i left it as it was.

[Chaos-Shaman]

To be fair about it all

I THINK THE GAME IS GREAT!

It's a puzzles dungeon, and it is the hardest one to date I've played. The problem was not the difficulty so much as it is the logic. There is a shortage of food. Spending hours on one part of the dungeon is not fun when food is limited. One has to replay the game from two hours ago because they are starving. There is nothing that depresses a player more than to replay a game over and over. When something like the puzzle with the gem comes up, there must be some sort of hint as to what to do, that's because it's not logical. I understand you want it difficult, I like that. Without a map is tough enough, I am as lost as can be still, but that does not stop me from playing. In the back of my mind I'm now thinking I have to try everything, even things that don't make sense. I have left lots of stuff all over the dungeon that usually is not considered important, but hey, maybe it is that sword I left behind that activates a trigger. God I hope not! I have so much doubt now on what is already accomplished. No dungeon is to tough if there is a logical way to work it out, that's all I'm saying. You have to admit that the gem puzzle was tough, ON PURPOSE tough.

That being said the dungeon is killer. You obviously have a great command of RTCeditor and it shows. You showed to me that RTC is not a junk program, that it is capable of doing much more. I hope to draw from your vast knowledge, help Claude and I in a new approach to playing the game. We need you man! Since you enjoy building dungeons and have already made several I do believe you'll enjoy working on something different. You want to make things difficult then I challenge you to help build it.

Saumun, your dungeon is the most difficult and interesting dungeon that most people will ever play. You even captured my daughters interest in it which is amazing since she plays all the new ones and has been for years, so that says a lot about your work. It's better than the new dungeons I have played. it just goes to show it is not just graphics or stats that makes a game.

NOW, I need help

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finding that wing key and getting out of the area that needs it. Pits have blocked me in and the blue haze does not take me out, food is low and I have to replay it constantly, losing any experience gained

I do believe all walls have been searched, there is an area I can't reach as well, no fly button nearby.

[Saumun]

@CS...

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Fear not... No weapons act as triggers, except for one that you haven't reached yet (and is non-essential anyway - doesn't stop you progressing).

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The pits...
Ultimately, to get through you need two winged keys. Each time you get through to a new part, a new teleport opens up below so that you don't have to keep going to the entrance and starting again.
The first key is at the end of a corridor that you have to run along before the pits open under you.
To get the second key, you need to pull two levers in the room adjacent to this one to close a pit. This part is tough. Some of the pits are on timers to open under you, and two are intermittent open/close pits (but there is a pattern to them which you have to study).
Check your email in about 10 mins. I'll send you something i had already made for someone else in the same position.

[the master]

@CS...

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Check your email in about 10 mins. I'll send you something i had already made for someone else in the same position.

Wonder who that was says he sitting in a hotel in Grasmere

[Paul Stevens]

In the Ros path of CSB, a door opens if you're carrying a green gem

That Green Gem also triggers a false wall without any hints.
I remember a place where a door opens if you are carrying a boulder.

But in all cases there are multiple ways of winning the game
without triggering those pressure pads. That is the genius of CSB.

[Chaos-Shaman]

Thanks for the help Saumun, I'll put a choke hold on the dungeon today



Sambini, you were one years old when it came out, near two before I played it. I had to keep you and your brothers from the computer at the time. So, you've joined the DM club. It's an addiction.

[Chaos-Shaman]

Yeah, spent a bit of time everyday on it, still looking for a purple qaui key. been about 6 hours so far and no luck. Tough to search the pit area, it's pissing me off. Get tired of healing my feet, lol.

[Saumun]

CS...

Spoiler

The Quai Key isn't in the pit area.
If you have the rune from the pit area, then there is nothing more to be gained from there.
The Quai Key is in an area very close to the garden in this section (only a few squares west of it).

[Chaos-Shaman]

Did find a new garden area. There was also an alcove I couldn't open. Will check that out today.

[Chaos-Shaman]

In a new area, found a gold ornate door that had a gem keyhole, I put a gem in and the door did not open, is that suppose to happen?

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the area has a disappearing white button and a wall that closes with a pressure pad

I'm going between 2 to 3 characters starving for food, keeping one fed always, the puzzles are hard so more food is needed, I think there is a lack of food. If the game is replayed over and over it can be done that way but all the experience will be lost. I have a chest full of food and I am unwilling to feed them, trying to stock up on it.

[the master]

CS are you

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using the seeds that you find in the garden? After which throw them in a fire for more food points. With the gem do you not need more than one to open door?

. Where are you up to at the moment?

[Saumun]

CS...
I'm not 100% sure where you're up to at the moment...

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Was it a blue gem from a yellow haze? If so, then you need three of them to open that door. The yellow hazes are either flashing or moving (or both) and you need to do certain things to spawn a gem inside them.

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If i'm thinking of the right place, and there's a grey button that disappears when you approach it, then you need to kill the knight in the area and find a small switch a few steps north of the one that disappears. This makes the grey button stay on, which in turn lets you get to the pad in the wall, which then opens a wall a few steps north with a lever inside (and some seeds). This lever produces a gem in the haze close by (a few steps southeast).

If this is not the right place, give me a rough description and i'll point the way... but that's the only place i can think of from what is stated in your post.

[Chaos-Shaman]

Hi guys. The gem keyhole is at the ornate door. I put two in there so far, looking for the third one. Because of the trouble with the onyx key I was afraid of the same thing happening again.

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I have been using the seeds in the two gardens, have a few more to plant when I find a new garden

Get a chance to play some more today, looking for one more blue gem. Do not have a complete set of any armor yet. I do have one chest of food, potatoes were gone a long time ago. When I have two characters fed I cast mana potions so to not waste it, but man it's tough.

IT TOOK ME A HALF AN HOUR TO WALK THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE DUNGEON! but it was fun to get a sneak peek at it, dropped at least a hundred zo kath ra spells to keep track since there are spinners and teleporters all over the place, it is necessary. It must have been a challenge to paste them all together Saumun, nice work man.