Hi everyone,
exactly one week ago, I released (after two years of development) a game that was on the one hand heavily inspired by Dungeon Crawlers (like DM, EotB, Lands of Lore, Menzoberranzan, and last but not least Legend of Grimrock) but is on the other hand designed to be something really different.
I'm not trying to spam this forum or inappropriately advertise, and I hope it's okay to mention the game here, maybe some of you want to take a look and I'd love to hear your opinion on it
https://dungeons-of-dreadrock.com/
Cheers
Christoph
Dungeons of Dreadrock
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Sophia
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Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
I tried the Android version on my Chromebook, which seemed to work mostly fine, although the ingame menus were blank and most ads were just a black screen. This is probably not your fault but I thought you'd want to know.
Personally, I wouldn't really call this any sort of a dungeon crawler or RPG. There does not seem to be any character choice, hit points, managing of visibility/light levels, different classes/skills, loot/gear, randomness, etc, which I'd associate with those genres. It's a puzzle game. That isn't a bad thing at all-- it's quite a fun puzzle game, actually. I just don't want anyone going into it with the wrong idea, and I assume you don't either.
I like the variety of puzzles. There are a lot of different mechanics in use but it all still feels coherent, and the solutions are usually pretty well hinted at. Some of the puzzles being multi-level is a nice twist because most of the time room-based puzzle games don't do that.
There are certain rooms where the controls don't really feel quite responsive enough for the tightness of the timing of the puzzles. Perhaps I'm just slowing down in my old age but this feels particularly acute involving minoaturs or projectiles. It's particularly bad with projectiles when I was partway through a move to a different square and got "pulled back" and hit anyway. I was playing on my Chromebook so I was using the arrow keys; trying to control it by swiping would've been even worse, in my opinion.
As for specific comments and criticisms, from the part of the game I've played so far:
Personally, I wouldn't really call this any sort of a dungeon crawler or RPG. There does not seem to be any character choice, hit points, managing of visibility/light levels, different classes/skills, loot/gear, randomness, etc, which I'd associate with those genres. It's a puzzle game. That isn't a bad thing at all-- it's quite a fun puzzle game, actually. I just don't want anyone going into it with the wrong idea, and I assume you don't either.
I like the variety of puzzles. There are a lot of different mechanics in use but it all still feels coherent, and the solutions are usually pretty well hinted at. Some of the puzzles being multi-level is a nice twist because most of the time room-based puzzle games don't do that.
There are certain rooms where the controls don't really feel quite responsive enough for the tightness of the timing of the puzzles. Perhaps I'm just slowing down in my old age but this feels particularly acute involving minoaturs or projectiles. It's particularly bad with projectiles when I was partway through a move to a different square and got "pulled back" and hit anyway. I was playing on my Chromebook so I was using the arrow keys; trying to control it by swiping would've been even worse, in my opinion.
As for specific comments and criticisms, from the part of the game I've played so far:
Spoiler
The spider is the first multi-hit enemy that you encounter and I think there should probably be some visual indication that you need to hit it more than once. Perhaps some indication in general of how many hits an enemy will take before it goes down would be useful.
Floor spike traps seem to be introduced after they've been already used once. You get the introduction after the room where you have to teleport a rock behind one.
In the first level with a dark elf archer, I was at a loss for a short while because it is not at all evident you can walk on the square in front of the blocked tunnel. The rubble seems to extend into the square so it looks like an obstacle.
In level 33, I ducked around the corner after bashing the door and the dark elf just jumped right into the open pit.
In level 36, I didn't really like being attacked the instant the level starts. I'd recommend pausing the game until you first move to let the player look over the level, like Lolo and various other games do. This seems especially relevant given that you have to find the "real" solution to this level.
Level 41 is where I stopped playing for now, because I knew exactly what to do but the monsters just wouldn't cooperate. If the zombie has started its attack animation, it won't advance in time to get hit by the spear, meanwhile, the timing is tight and I got "pulled back" into the spear's path a couple of times as well. I finally did it but I decided that was enough for now.
Floor spike traps seem to be introduced after they've been already used once. You get the introduction after the room where you have to teleport a rock behind one.
In the first level with a dark elf archer, I was at a loss for a short while because it is not at all evident you can walk on the square in front of the blocked tunnel. The rubble seems to extend into the square so it looks like an obstacle.
In level 33, I ducked around the corner after bashing the door and the dark elf just jumped right into the open pit.
In level 36, I didn't really like being attacked the instant the level starts. I'd recommend pausing the game until you first move to let the player look over the level, like Lolo and various other games do. This seems especially relevant given that you have to find the "real" solution to this level.
Level 41 is where I stopped playing for now, because I knew exactly what to do but the monsters just wouldn't cooperate. If the zombie has started its attack animation, it won't advance in time to get hit by the spear, meanwhile, the timing is tight and I got "pulled back" into the spear's path a couple of times as well. I finally did it but I decided that was enough for now.
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doctorfunfrock
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Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
Hi Sophia,
thank you very much for your findings on different levels / mechanics / glitches.
You are very observant and a lot of the problems you mention are actual shortcomings that I was not (yet) able to polish completely.
Also I am excited to see that you are already have through the game (there's 100 levels) in your first session.
I hope you'll take your time and finish it!
As to your more general comment on the genre
("I just don't want anyone going into it with the wrong idea, and I assume you don't either.")
You're absolutly right with that, I don't want people to expect a vanilla Dungeon Crawler like Legend of Grimrock.
Just after writing my post I thought I probably should have made that more clear, so thanks for pointing it out in a neutral way.
As you say, there is no party, no inventory management, it's top-down, not first person, but I want to point out to everyone else here that DoD is actually so heavily inspired by original Dungeon Crawlers that one might argue that everything that differs from them is but a logical consequence of the change to top-down perspective. It's no longer an RPG yes, it's an adventure now but I think the DC vibe is still thick.
Cheers
Christoph
thank you very much for your findings on different levels / mechanics / glitches.
You are very observant and a lot of the problems you mention are actual shortcomings that I was not (yet) able to polish completely.
Also I am excited to see that you are already have through the game (there's 100 levels) in your first session.
I hope you'll take your time and finish it!
As to your more general comment on the genre
("I just don't want anyone going into it with the wrong idea, and I assume you don't either.")
You're absolutly right with that, I don't want people to expect a vanilla Dungeon Crawler like Legend of Grimrock.
Just after writing my post I thought I probably should have made that more clear, so thanks for pointing it out in a neutral way.
As you say, there is no party, no inventory management, it's top-down, not first person, but I want to point out to everyone else here that DoD is actually so heavily inspired by original Dungeon Crawlers that one might argue that everything that differs from them is but a logical consequence of the change to top-down perspective. It's no longer an RPG yes, it's an adventure now but I think the DC vibe is still thick.
Cheers
Christoph
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Sophia
- Concise and Honest
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Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
Finished it! Very nice.
I had quite a bit of fun with this one. While I don't see how the elimination of dungeon crawl RPG staples like hit points, a class/level system, upgradeable gear, or reliance on the RNG is in any way a logical consequence of a switch to top view (and there are quite a few games like Rogue, Shadowlands, old D&D games, etc. that do both!) I am not trying to nitpick too much, because I definitely like this game for what it is. I do agree the DM inspiration definitely comes through in a lot of the puzzle design and I quite enjoyed the clever mix of different puzzles. I feel like some of the timing-based puzzles could have used a bit more margin for error, but I was still able to make my way through so it's definitely not a deal breaker. Many of the other puzzles were also excellent, and I also liked how you even managed to work in some item-based puzzles despite there being less of an emphasis on collecting stuff and taking it with you.
Specific comments for the second half of the game:
I do also want to reinforce that though I may have some (or quite a bit of) criticism for individual elements of the game's design I think it is overall a solid game and I enjoyed playing it, and have already recommended it to a couple of friends.
I had quite a bit of fun with this one. While I don't see how the elimination of dungeon crawl RPG staples like hit points, a class/level system, upgradeable gear, or reliance on the RNG is in any way a logical consequence of a switch to top view (and there are quite a few games like Rogue, Shadowlands, old D&D games, etc. that do both!) I am not trying to nitpick too much, because I definitely like this game for what it is. I do agree the DM inspiration definitely comes through in a lot of the puzzle design and I quite enjoyed the clever mix of different puzzles. I feel like some of the timing-based puzzles could have used a bit more margin for error, but I was still able to make my way through so it's definitely not a deal breaker. Many of the other puzzles were also excellent, and I also liked how you even managed to work in some item-based puzzles despite there being less of an emphasis on collecting stuff and taking it with you.
Specific comments for the second half of the game:
Spoiler
In level 50, chasing the gnome into the zombie to kill him is an interesting solution, but with the way you have to get the zombie to start its attack animation and then move out of the way the timing is honestly so tricky I wasn't sure if I was doing it right. Another option might be to chase him back upstairs (they usually use stairs, so I thought it was weird he didn't), grab your sword upstairs, and stab him.
In the crypt of Arvor, I kind of thought I might be the "decent woman" but the other grave still called me a filthy peasant so it was hard to tell. Just standing there is kind of a weird solution too... I needed the hint for that. Also, a typo: one of the other graves says "angles" not "angels."
If you throw your sword in the watcher's eye, you have no sword to handle the other bug monster, but I initially thought the solution to being swordless was to move off the pressure plate at just the right moment and slam the portcullis on the approaching bug. The actual intended solution is pretty clever, but given the DM inspiration, it was a little surprising (and sort of disappointing!) that it didn't work.
Level 63 felt kind of like luck that I finally got past it. Usually, the second goblin would begin his attacking animation and either hit me before he got toasted or I'd end up too far away and the pressure plate would have reset by the time I got there. The timing on these really is tight-- more than once I got blown up because I stepped off just a little too late and it had already reset by the time I was walking forward. Even the first one was a bit finicky because goblins are faster than fireballs and that does some odd things.
In level 81, the goblin was still alive, and dropped Ivar down the pit. This was funny (and actually what I was hoping for, not knowing what was next) but it caused a glitch, since it meant Ivar didn't follow me down the stairs and the next level was impossible. I tried going back up and he was there again, and this time I went down before he fell; the interstitial animation showed him in the stairs, but he still never showed up in the actual level. Trying to reset level 81 only took me back to coming back up the stairs and Ivar showing up, and he still never appeared when I go went down to level 82. I eventually had to go back to the main menu and go back to level 80 and do the whole sequence over and just hurry downstairs before Ivar got the chance to fall down the pit, which worked, but this seems kind of bugged.
The timing of tree monsters feels really strange at times, giving me some trouble in level 84. They have a really slow attack animation, but you can't knock them back until they've attacked, making dealing with them a bit tedious. It also seems possible to knock them back two squares if you slash them at just the right time so you can hit them twice. It was hard to predict when this would happen and I'm not sure if this is intended behavior.
Is there a way to change direction without moving? Some of the rock-throwing puzzles could have benefited from it, but level 85 is especially an issue due to the inability to turn and throw the sword at the ogre without advancing towards him. I think level 85 is a bit too difficult in general, really. There isn't much margin for error and it may be even worse using phone controls. Also, if you throw your sword and walk into it, you'll get hit by it and die. I guess even the glitches are DM-inspired!
Due to how level 50 worked, one initial thought I had in the fight with Trident was to bait the tree monsters to attack just as he charged past. Perhaps if you try this he should taunt you that they can't hurt him either so it's more clear that you have to try something else. Having him standing there gloating would also give a little more time to get the trees into position, which couldn't hurt either.
I figured out the trick to level 90 but I attempted to use the fireball trap rather than the spike trap, and that just caused a normal death and restarted the level. Also, if you mess up, you have to redo the entire two-level sequence. I tried three times (redoing it each time...) and I was simply too slow as a skeleton to get to the teleporter. Maybe this was because I was controlling the game with the keyboard? I don't know why it wasn't working for me. I watched a video and the person did it, but I simply was not able to move fast enough just holding the key down. I eventually got past this by just avoiding the upstairs and using the "ability" to get killed by my own sword...
If you throw your sword as a skeleton, your sprite is still holding a sword.
If you don't wake up the treasure hunter in level 92 and you proceed to level 93, you can't go back up, so you're basically stuck until you go back to the main menu and replay the level.
In addition, I want to say, I appreciated that the game's ending was straightforward and happy-- I'm less of a fan of games that try to be a little too "clever" or introduce some surprise twist that makes the whole effort seem futile.
In the crypt of Arvor, I kind of thought I might be the "decent woman" but the other grave still called me a filthy peasant so it was hard to tell. Just standing there is kind of a weird solution too... I needed the hint for that. Also, a typo: one of the other graves says "angles" not "angels."
If you throw your sword in the watcher's eye, you have no sword to handle the other bug monster, but I initially thought the solution to being swordless was to move off the pressure plate at just the right moment and slam the portcullis on the approaching bug. The actual intended solution is pretty clever, but given the DM inspiration, it was a little surprising (and sort of disappointing!) that it didn't work.
Level 63 felt kind of like luck that I finally got past it. Usually, the second goblin would begin his attacking animation and either hit me before he got toasted or I'd end up too far away and the pressure plate would have reset by the time I got there. The timing on these really is tight-- more than once I got blown up because I stepped off just a little too late and it had already reset by the time I was walking forward. Even the first one was a bit finicky because goblins are faster than fireballs and that does some odd things.
In level 81, the goblin was still alive, and dropped Ivar down the pit. This was funny (and actually what I was hoping for, not knowing what was next) but it caused a glitch, since it meant Ivar didn't follow me down the stairs and the next level was impossible. I tried going back up and he was there again, and this time I went down before he fell; the interstitial animation showed him in the stairs, but he still never showed up in the actual level. Trying to reset level 81 only took me back to coming back up the stairs and Ivar showing up, and he still never appeared when I go went down to level 82. I eventually had to go back to the main menu and go back to level 80 and do the whole sequence over and just hurry downstairs before Ivar got the chance to fall down the pit, which worked, but this seems kind of bugged.
The timing of tree monsters feels really strange at times, giving me some trouble in level 84. They have a really slow attack animation, but you can't knock them back until they've attacked, making dealing with them a bit tedious. It also seems possible to knock them back two squares if you slash them at just the right time so you can hit them twice. It was hard to predict when this would happen and I'm not sure if this is intended behavior.
Is there a way to change direction without moving? Some of the rock-throwing puzzles could have benefited from it, but level 85 is especially an issue due to the inability to turn and throw the sword at the ogre without advancing towards him. I think level 85 is a bit too difficult in general, really. There isn't much margin for error and it may be even worse using phone controls. Also, if you throw your sword and walk into it, you'll get hit by it and die. I guess even the glitches are DM-inspired!
Due to how level 50 worked, one initial thought I had in the fight with Trident was to bait the tree monsters to attack just as he charged past. Perhaps if you try this he should taunt you that they can't hurt him either so it's more clear that you have to try something else. Having him standing there gloating would also give a little more time to get the trees into position, which couldn't hurt either.
I figured out the trick to level 90 but I attempted to use the fireball trap rather than the spike trap, and that just caused a normal death and restarted the level. Also, if you mess up, you have to redo the entire two-level sequence. I tried three times (redoing it each time...) and I was simply too slow as a skeleton to get to the teleporter. Maybe this was because I was controlling the game with the keyboard? I don't know why it wasn't working for me. I watched a video and the person did it, but I simply was not able to move fast enough just holding the key down. I eventually got past this by just avoiding the upstairs and using the "ability" to get killed by my own sword...
If you throw your sword as a skeleton, your sprite is still holding a sword.
If you don't wake up the treasure hunter in level 92 and you proceed to level 93, you can't go back up, so you're basically stuck until you go back to the main menu and replay the level.
In addition, I want to say, I appreciated that the game's ending was straightforward and happy-- I'm less of a fan of games that try to be a little too "clever" or introduce some surprise twist that makes the whole effort seem futile.
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Gambit37
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Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
I don't usually play games in this style, but based on Sophia's comments I will definitely check it out. I'm making a conscious effort now to abandon mainstream gaming and investigate the indie stuff a bit more and this looks like a great place to start. Lovely art style for starters, and looks very polished -- nice work @doctorfunfrock!
Also might I just add that as a web designer/developer, I really love the scrolling effect on the header of the website that fakes a kind of perpective shift as the player walks into the entrance -- very clever, really nicely done!
Also these all get a big thumbs up from me:
Also might I just add that as a web designer/developer, I really love the scrolling effect on the header of the website that fakes a kind of perpective shift as the player walks into the entrance -- very clever, really nicely done!
Also these all get a big thumbs up from me:
Excellent stuff* No inventory sorting MMO grind.
* No procedural roguelike bullshittery.
* No open-world searching downtime.
Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
Hi there. I did not try the game because I'm in a period where I don't play anymore...
But your game is somehow a kind of game I am thinking to make yet : keep the mechanics of the old dungeon crawlers but in a different view, for a different taste, more "direct". I totally understand what you want to achieve here and I presume you manage to do it (with the comments above, you're in the right place to receive good feedback).
Two years of work, you can be proud of the result
Very good job.
But your game is somehow a kind of game I am thinking to make yet : keep the mechanics of the old dungeon crawlers but in a different view, for a different taste, more "direct". I totally understand what you want to achieve here and I presume you manage to do it (with the comments above, you're in the right place to receive good feedback).
Two years of work, you can be proud of the result
Very good job.
Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
Well, I just played the game on Android, really liked it so I bought it to support your work. Like said above, I was actually thinking about how to reduce the gameplay of a DC and adapt it in 2D, and lots of answers are in Dungeons of Deadrock 
The story and the style are fun !
I'm around the 13th level (we go down faster than in Dungeon Master
)
Again, a great game.
The story and the style are fun !I'm around the 13th level (we go down faster than in Dungeon Master
)Again, a great game.
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doctorfunfrock
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Re: Dungeons of Dreadrock
Hey,
Thanks for all your replies, sorry I missed them.
(This time i'll check notifications box.)
The game is meanwhile also available for Steam and soon for Switch. I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for your remarks and opinions!
Christoph
Thanks for all your replies, sorry I missed them.
(This time i'll check notifications box.)
The game is meanwhile also available for Steam and soon for Switch. I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for your remarks and opinions!
Christoph