Help with buying a new laptop

[Gambit37]

HI all, I'm in the market for a new laptop. I've done a lot of research already but can't seem to find anything that meets all my requirements, so I thought I'd ask the hive mind here. I'm looking for a workhorse laptop for media creation (latest photoshop, some video editing, sound editing and 3D work in Blender), coding, writing, watching videos/film, video calls and playing games. It does NOT need to play the latest AAA action games, I'm unlikely to be keeping up with those now.

I have a few immutable requirements:

• For using Windows (therefore not Apple)
• A large screen (15" or above), preferably at 16:10 or 3:2 ratio, matte finish
• A UK keyboard layout
• A good quality webcam (1080p or better)
• NOT made by Acer or Lenovo

My budget is £1500 (approx $2000 USD).

I've been looking at mainly Asus laptops as I've had those before and been mostly happy with them. The Zenbook line has some nice machines but I'm struggling to find a 15" model that gets great reviews. I was also really interested in the Framework laptop which has a modular approach to ports and gives you the "right to repair" -- but the screen is a bit on the small side. 13" screens are fine for general use, but not big enough for media creation/editing or coding.

Does anyone know of a good machine that would meet these requirements?

[Prince of Elves]

Hi Gambit,

I'm from Germany so I'm not sure about available keyboard layouts, and we don't use cams, so I'm not sure about those either, but my lady did some Blender and bought a laptop that met those requirements at least (been a few years, so not sure about the prices nowadays either, with the crazy markets...)

But it may be a direction for your own research: she has an msi workstation (they do gaming laptops too, but the workstations are more Jack-of-all-trades and she was quite pleased with it - until she invested in a standalone PC because they'll handle Blender better, no matter how good the laptop is).

PS: Having had a Lenovo myself years ago, I certainly agree with you there: that's a total no-go

[The Journeyman]

Hey mate, I'd recommend this all-in-one solution here: http://shorturl.at/ruxK2

[Gambit37]

Thanks Journeyman, but that doesn't link anywhere?

Thanks Prince of Elves, yes, I've looked at a few MSI machines but didn't like their aesthetic, maybe I need to look at those again...

[The Journeyman]

ah yes, sorry about that. So here is your solution for everything: crystal clear display, extremely long battery, weather proof case, easy to update: Link

[Gambit37]

The RickRoll of the DM world... I suspected it

[cowsmanaut]

You might consider used machines. There are a number of people who just want to be at the top of the top all the time. Some people get machines and sell them right away too because they just got them to review them. There is also things like redflag deals, not sure if it deals in UK content but last minute deals people see get posted. I'd be on the look out for those. You can sometimes get a really good item on the cheap.

Another consideration that many don't think of, is treating the Laptop like a desktop. Getting a lower end cheap system, then upgrading. All you need to be sure of, is that you can indeed upgrade. So.. yeah.. not a mac. There are a few things that can be pretty easy to update. HDD, Ram, Graphics. Sometimes you can get some much cheaper options by upgrading rather than having everything at once. The other advantage there is, if anything fails, you have spares. Just side thoughts you might not have considered.. if you haven't already found somthing. (I know I'm months too late probably)

[Gambit37]

Thanks Cows. I ended up buying an interesting laptop, a modular upgradeable machine from a new startup, the Framework. However, I was unimpressed by flimsy feel of the body compared to Macs, the noisy fans and the generated heat, so I'm returning it and getting a refund.

I'm now going to buy a M1 Macbook Air instead. After a ton of research, and extreme annoyance with Microsoft with what they've done to Windows, I figured it's time to try something else. The M1 Air machines are amazing, and my future workload is now much lighter than what I originally wrote above, so an Air is more than enough for what I need plus it gives me scope to do some graphics work ad-hoc.

[cowsmanaut]

yeah, the Macbooks are capable of running windows as well (dual boot) and seem to be pretty good at it. If you have a copy of an older (not win11) they usually install fine and would give you access to windows only software. This is what co-workers who need to use both have done.

The only real downside is the upgrading is severely blocked by the way they layout things. They don't want you opening them and upgrading even just a hard drive. They go out of their way to make it dangerous(thin and easy to snap ribbons) and difficult to upgrade the most common items. So you have to be happy with external drives if you want more space.

(this is more funny, than informational.. the comments were nice)
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/06/m1 ... -possible/

[Gambit37]

I don't think I'd risk those upgrades on the new M1 machines! And they don't support dual boot anymore, at least not for Windows. For that, I'd need Parallels and the Arm version of Windows 11. It's an option down the line, but I'm not bothered about it initially. I'm done with tinkering with tech, I just want something reliable that works.

That said, MacOs still sucks in many ways compared to Windows, so it looks like I'd want a few third party apps to fix what Apple should have done years ago. The dock is pointless and Finder is hot garbage.

[cowsmanaut]

I see, I guess it's the older macbook they were using then. They needed something that could run all the 3D apps and such. Then take advantage of some of the drawing and video editing tools of the mac. Oh well..

[Gambit37]

Interesting that your colleagues needed a dual-boot system -- I thought all the main 3d apps were available on Macs natively? I guess not.

I've actually been using an older Macbook Pro for the last 6 years -- not for anything serious, just general browsing, some writing, youtube, etc. I had not really thought to use it for anything more serious because I did all the heavier work on my desktop PC. After looking at current Windows laptops though, it made me realise that my Macbook was a machine I'd been seriously undervaluing these last 6 years! It really does have a wonderful form factor, feels very robust, and just looks nicer than most other manufacturers laptops to be honest. I've never been an Apple customer (the current Macbook I got cheaply from a former employer), but it's funny to me after all this time to now consider the Other option!

[cowsmanaut]

There is some software that is Mac only, others that either are not available to Mac, or are very delayed in features and patches. Primarily for 3D work, the majority of the software is PC based with some having a mac alternative (but slightly behind in updates). For film editing however, as well as music tools, there are a lot of Mac specific tools. This means people on the film and sound side often lean Mac, while the VFX and some other post work (compositing) lean PC.

there is no doubt that Mac, despite some of their more "evil" practices, do produce some very solid tech. The components are usually high quality and they try to make most tasks simpler while providing a very attractive aesthetic. Just 3 things that have kept me clear of Mac. In order of priority:

1. Low adoption from games and software companies I'm interested in. I couldn't do the work I do now with a Mac

2. Hardware practices like unrequired custom port shapes and adapters. buried components they can't make custom so you can't access them and swap/upgrade. removing standard features you will need to purchase at cost with custom (sometimes inferior) methods (ie.headphones). it's all about the $$$. Just makes me feel used instead of appreciated.

3. Viruses. They claim they have less, and that's true, but some of the worst virus I've seen were on Mac. The more common was one that removes the ability to open drives. Locking discs in the system. The last one was around 11 years ago on a MacBook. It essentialy bricked the system because he couldn't get to the drive and there was no mechanical opening option. The only option was to send to apple to have them open, remove 90% of the components to get to the drive itself(yeah.. wtf) and physically dismantle the drive to get the disc. Now you may say.. 11 years ago.. that's a long time it surely won't happen now, well... I saw the SAME virus on floppy disk on a mac in highschool and watched my teacher disassemble the machine to get to the floppy drive to get the disk out. I'd seen it again over the years.. it just changed tech. Yet they never decided to apply a mechanical release to their drives. No idea why. Low risk for sure, but just knowing this can happen and it's not just a reinstall of the OS as a quick fix or using virus protection (they were using some) and you're back up and running freaks me out.

there are some other points I didn't like about the software and interface. My dad went to mac for a year and rage quit back to PC. He likes to tinker and set up his system. He found uninstall didn't work correctly, copy-paste didn't seem to work correctly, etc, and seemed to be blocked from things he wanted to adjust that would have been available on the windows side. So it wasn't for him and I listened to his rants through that. However, on the flip side, I've had moments I needed to use a mac at work and haven't had too many issues as a casual user. So I think the more technical you get, the worse the experience is, but regular everyday use is fine. So to be fair, there is a lot of good with a Mac if you have the right needs and mindset. It does many things really well, and as I said they have high-quality parts for most of the build. For what you want to do, it's probably going to be perfect(and you would already know given 6 years of use already). There might even be a couple of things that Macs have that I wish PC did more. Just that I always like to know all the aspects (bad things I MIGHT have to deal with) before going deep into this kind of thing.. and being an Amiga user and the Mac being the closest next thing to the Amiga after all those years, using the Motorola chipset, etc. I've thought about it a LOT.. always swinging back their direction every few years.

This is not meant in anyway to disuade your decision.. especially since you've already made it. Just why my paranoid self hasn't gone there.

[Gambit37]

You raise some good points which I'm still considering, so I'm not 100% committed to Mac just yet.

I'm not bothered about gaming anymore, certainly not on a laptop anyway, and the virus story isn't a concern anymore since there aren't any mechanical drives in any new Macs. But I share your Dad's frustrations about general usage: a lot of MacOS conventions are just *weird* after a lifetime of using Windows, and it's hard to undo all those expectations and muscle memory and learn it new, especially when we're older.

You're right about the bloody ports and dongles. Honestly, that's one thing that really winds me up. The M1 Macbook Air only has 2 Thunderbolt/USB-C + one 3.5mm headphone jack. That's very limited, and has made me consider the 14" Pro instead which has much better ports. But that adds £hundreds to the price which I can't really justify.

I think my main issue is that Macs are very expensive compared to Windows PCs/laptops, and I'm still unsure if the extra money is worth it for an everyday machine. But... the M1 Macs need fewer resources to do the same thing. Everything I've read suggests that an 8GB Mac M1 is equivalent to a 16GB Windows machine, so overall, maybe the costs work out the same.

One thing I hadn't realised is that one of my requirements is to have a *quiet* machine. So many Windows laptops are OK when idling, but as soon as you do anything vaguely taxing, the fans kick in and can be verrrry loud and annoying. The M1 Macbook Air is passively cooled sot it's completely silent, and the Pro 14" and 16" have fans but are so well optimised you barely hear them if they do spin up. I'm in a new job and have been given a 16" M1 MacBook Pro -- it has been completely silent so far, which could not be said for that Framework thing that I bought: the fans kicked in on that during startup and stayed like that for a good 10 mins even though I wasn't doing anything! Of course, my 2015 Macbook Pro does have fans and it does get loud if you push it, but I'm not doing anything on it that's taxing enough to cause that.

Another consideration is that my phone is Android not iPhone which means missing on some good integrations. That's likely not an issue though as I only connect my phone to my computers when I do basic file transfers, which is supported everywhere.

Right now I'm waiting to get my money back on the Framework laptop that I sent back. Once I've got that refund, I'll consider my options. I may just end up sticking with my current MacBook Pro and desktop setup for now (although one of the main points of this was to go fully "mobile" and get rid of the desktop machine entirely -- it takes up too much space and limits me to using the home-office all the time, when I'd rather move around the house depending on my mood).

And yet... after all that, I *still* can't stop watching YouTube PC builders putting together these amazing tiny ITX PCs which for some reason really appeal to me, even though I don't have any need for one...!

[Prince of Elves]

With your expertise I suppose you already looked into Linux too. Depends on what you want and need of course, but modern Linux systems have become quite user friendly and their RAM usage is still way below Windows systems. I know that Blender specifically can almost double your render speed with half the memory needed - though of course Blender is tailored to Linux...

[Gambit37]

Yes, I looked at Linux, but it's just a bit too "techy" for my liking, even with a shiny GUI on top. At least the MacOS GUI is mature, I get the impression that all the Linux GUIs are a bit of a mess.

[Prince of Elves]

That sounds about right. I guess everyone has to decide what they really need, what they want on top of that and what is optional and then decide by that which system suits them best. If Windows gets even more on my nerves, I myself will probably migrate to Linux but I'm not there yet.

[cowsmanaut]

I feel like it will soon be the time for Linux to get that friendly facelift. Just like Blender got its own more "humanized" interface. Allowing for a much more natural interaction and something those accustomed to Maya, and 3Dsmax could adapt to. Linux is in that free zone but you're right. A little to techy. I got a raspberry pi for My wife (she's started taking a computer science degree) as a gift and the first thing was that the icon, menu and text are all to small and we apparently need to dig through .ini files to see if we can fix this. The mini games loaded with the system are insanely tiny windows and can't be easily modified. So yes, it definitely needs a practical upgrade.

As Prince of Elves points out.. people getting a bit unhappy with windows. Many have threatened over the years.. but could the intrusive nature of the most recent version of windows push them over the edge? If you get mass adoption.. Linux will have to change. No choice. Don't you think?