I have no other [functioning] keyboards at this time so cannot test. I do have that on my agenda to buy or borrow, however. I’m curious to hear from those who played CSB for Win on fast machine (mine is roughly a 3 gig processor) as well as CSB for Amiga or Atari if the timing is the same. I was a good player on DM and can’t understand how my skills have so deteriorated if they have. My first post on this board was a question about DM original in RTC. As a good DM player, I was upset about my inability to do nearly as well in RTC. Some posters here told me that while my skills may have deteriorated, the game of RTC is actually tougher than DM for Atari which made me feel a bit better.
Oh, as to this keyboard, it’s a Microsoft brand which has lately started dropping or ignoring interrupts even though it’s only a few months old. It’s as if the contacts or dirty or worn out.
To return to CSB, I can’t get anything in the supplies for the fast area. Whilst trying to grab for the sword which is right in front of me, I fall through before the grab. Once I made the grab. It seems apparent to me that I need do the grab then do a side step. My guess is that some of the floor squares are solid so it’s run, grab, find safe, rest, run grab, find safe and repeat. I tried just doing the dungeon without any supplies, but having only one sword and no flasks made for a tedious slog. My take is that even on those tries where AFAIK, my keyboard hasn’t missed a stroke, I can’t do this room.
I doubt my reaction time has slowed. When playing RTC, I was fast enough for all the speed games including that one where you are in a short hall with two closed doors (about level 7) and need to run past one blue rain, open a door, then run past the other blue rain to find a key to open a door. I did that in one try so my timing can’t be that bad.
As to EOB II, I was referring to the depth of the story and variety of the gaming experience more than the game engine. To be fair to the makers of EOB II, they were developing for a much less decent gaming platform of the PC compared to the ST or Amiga both of which, in 1987, were ahead of the typical PC of a few years later. My PC sound only recently has achieved the level of my Amiga in, what, 1986? As to graphics, how can you compare the ‘wonder’ of CGA or the ‘miracle’ of EGA to Amiga or ST graphics of the same era?
We're all gonna die! or: New to DM
Moderator: Ameena
Forum rules
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
Please read the Forum rules and policies before posting.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The SUPPLIES FOR THE QUICK area is really quite
easy. The speed of your processor should have
no effect on the speed of the game. I play on anything
from a 40MHz to a 2GHz and it feels exactly the same.
(ConfluxII might be an exception because of the hundreds,
nay thousands, of monsters. 40MHz would be slow.).
I use the keyboard in one hand and the mouse in the other.
I pre-positon my mouse cursor, take a step forward using the
keyboard, click the mouse, take a step sideways, forward,
sideways.......whatever to get to the next solid ground.
There is plenty of time to even pause a bit. There is no time
for turning, however. Try setting
the speed to a slower value for practice.
easy. The speed of your processor should have
no effect on the speed of the game. I play on anything
from a 40MHz to a 2GHz and it feels exactly the same.
(ConfluxII might be an exception because of the hundreds,
nay thousands, of monsters. 40MHz would be slow.).
I use the keyboard in one hand and the mouse in the other.
I pre-positon my mouse cursor, take a step forward using the
keyboard, click the mouse, take a step sideways, forward,
sideways.......whatever to get to the next solid ground.
There is plenty of time to even pause a bit. There is no time
for turning, however. Try setting
the speed to a slower value for practice.
Slide:
a) Only ever played EOB on Amiga.
b) CSB: I suppose you are moving with the keyboard, grabbing with the mouse, have the mouse positioned on the right spot (where the item you want to grab lies in terms of screen position), are fresh and healthy (well, at least your party, all of them), have no critical injuries and no overload (neither yellow nor red).
Don't try to grab all items in a single try. Just pass the room without taking stuff so you stand on it's southern entrace (z04/x17/y30). Save the game, rush into the room, only pick up a single item, keep moving without delay round the center pillar so you end up at the southern entrance where you just started your little raid. Save again. Repeat that process until you have all you need. Don't miss the secret passage with the Vorpal Blade. Use iron keys to close them 2 pits. There are so many iron keys in the game, you can afford that, lest you end up with a full chest of spare iron keys. These 2 pits are part of 2 long shafts reaching from the uppermost floor to the lowest cellar, if you close them, you will fall less deep if you should be tricked into one of the pits above this position. But before you close them, leave your boots at the stairs and enter them pits (you can't leave them as long as you possess boots) 'cause there is an onyx key waiting down there for you.
When you have all supplies, return to the jump&run area and proceed through the small southward corridor and pick up the flask and the monster identification scroll (the latter one is not available in all versions of CSB), go down the stairs and turn left towards the fountain. When you have emptied that room and picked up those hardly visible iron keys and the remaining supplies here, you are ready to enter the teleport to the Junction of the Ways (I assume you already have taken that fine suit of chain mail in the secret passage of the starting room).
a) Only ever played EOB on Amiga.
b) CSB: I suppose you are moving with the keyboard, grabbing with the mouse, have the mouse positioned on the right spot (where the item you want to grab lies in terms of screen position), are fresh and healthy (well, at least your party, all of them), have no critical injuries and no overload (neither yellow nor red).
Don't try to grab all items in a single try. Just pass the room without taking stuff so you stand on it's southern entrace (z04/x17/y30). Save the game, rush into the room, only pick up a single item, keep moving without delay round the center pillar so you end up at the southern entrance where you just started your little raid. Save again. Repeat that process until you have all you need. Don't miss the secret passage with the Vorpal Blade. Use iron keys to close them 2 pits. There are so many iron keys in the game, you can afford that, lest you end up with a full chest of spare iron keys. These 2 pits are part of 2 long shafts reaching from the uppermost floor to the lowest cellar, if you close them, you will fall less deep if you should be tricked into one of the pits above this position. But before you close them, leave your boots at the stairs and enter them pits (you can't leave them as long as you possess boots) 'cause there is an onyx key waiting down there for you.
When you have all supplies, return to the jump&run area and proceed through the small southward corridor and pick up the flask and the monster identification scroll (the latter one is not available in all versions of CSB), go down the stairs and turn left towards the fountain. When you have emptied that room and picked up those hardly visible iron keys and the remaining supplies here, you are ready to enter the teleport to the Junction of the Ways (I assume you already have taken that fine suit of chain mail in the secret passage of the starting room).
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I’ll try to follow your direction. Yes, I’m moving with the keyboard and grabbing with the mouse (wireless too) with the mouse cursor pre-set to about the right place and my chars as light as they can get. At this point, being overloaded isn’t an issue. As to iron keys, I have none. When I fall into the pit, I find a few. The stairway up from that room doesn’t seem to lead to anywhere. The only way out other than falling further down and into more confusion is to use a key to turn off a blue rain then move to a ‘junction of the ways’. Somehow inevitably I end up in blind alley called Neta. Proceeding further without weapon or flask is about where I pack it in.
My sense is that this game is balance more toward the monsters than the original DM. I cant’ speak to CSB for Amiga / Atari, but I doubt a newbie could get out of the first room here. I did find a version of CSB for Windows that has a speed adjustment, but that slows down my chars too which isn’t any help. Some of the monsters, such as the spiders in Neta are almost indestructible and very fast. Sure, I suppose I could bypass many of them, but this being my first time though I wish to do the standard tactic of clean out an area, then explore, then move on. It makes no sense to me to rush through anyway because I have no idea where to rush to or what to achieve when I’ve crossed some finish line.
Mostly I wish I had my old DM team to import. I don’t think import is working here anyway, but my guys were low to mid masters in all but ninja. A team like that would make for a better time of it.
Well, off to try your tips and see if I can get at least a flask out of it. Thanks for your suggestions. –Paul
My sense is that this game is balance more toward the monsters than the original DM. I cant’ speak to CSB for Amiga / Atari, but I doubt a newbie could get out of the first room here. I did find a version of CSB for Windows that has a speed adjustment, but that slows down my chars too which isn’t any help. Some of the monsters, such as the spiders in Neta are almost indestructible and very fast. Sure, I suppose I could bypass many of them, but this being my first time though I wish to do the standard tactic of clean out an area, then explore, then move on. It makes no sense to me to rush through anyway because I have no idea where to rush to or what to achieve when I’ve crossed some finish line.
Mostly I wish I had my old DM team to import. I don’t think import is working here anyway, but my guys were low to mid masters in all but ninja. A team like that would make for a better time of it.
Well, off to try your tips and see if I can get at least a flask out of it. Thanks for your suggestions. –Paul
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Per my other notes, I may have a hw issue here. For example, as you note, there is plenty of time, but I'll get to an object (such as sword) click one, two then three times on the sword without a grab and then fall through. Were I to get a grab on click one, I would have plenty of time to side step.Paul Stevens wrote:The SUPPLIES FOR THE QUICK area is really quite
easy. The speed of your processor should have
no effect on the speed of the game. I play on anything
from a 40MHz to a 2GHz and it feels exactly the same.
(ConfluxII might be an exception because of the hundreds,
nay thousands, of monsters. 40MHz would be slow.).
I use the keyboard in one hand and the mouse in the other.
I pre-positon my mouse cursor, take a step forward using the
keyboard, click the mouse, take a step sideways, forward,
sideways.......whatever to get to the next solid ground.
There is plenty of time to even pause a bit. There is no time
for turning, however. Try setting
the speed to a slower value for practice.
I selected my team somewhat randomly, but feel they are a reasonable lot. I sure wish I could have had a bit of a tweak on my magic users. EVen my best fighter isn't worth much against these monsters such as the giant spiders in Neta.
Well, off for another try or two.
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
OK. The trick is to click only once. If you miss, keep goingone, two then three times on the sword without a grab and then fall through. Were I to get a grab on click one, I would have plenty of time to side step.
and come back again later to try again. I always face a
wall just before my attempts. The proper position of the cursor
is a couple pixels above where the wall meets the floor. Then
I turn and go.
You don't want to face those Oitus at the beginning of the game.
Go attack some worms in the basement. The North exit from the
Parting of the Ways. They provide food and then you can return to
get water. You can do this forever until you are built up a bit.
The worms in the first room are no problem whatsoever after a
bit of practice. I do it regularly with a single reincarnated
champion. Just punch them to death or get the dagger or
the 2-coin sword. The only trick is to not step on the pad that
creates additional worms.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I will try that. I was quite discouraged yesterday and about to pack it in as a bad job. I had fallen somewhere into meeting a dragon. Now it was no effort to remain behind the dragon and what it with the swords that I'd gotten, but after a long while, I looked at my watch to see the time. After 15 MORE minutes of clock time following that dragon around hitting its tail, scoring from 0-3 pts each shot, I saw an armoured worm come into the picture. Wearily I gave it up as a bad job. Yes, I hit it with as many fireballs as mana I had left, which wasn't that much as I had to survive some floating eyeballs beforehand. My team was alaos weakened by the prior fights and the falls. Somehow we'd encountered mummies by the score.OK. The trick is to click only once. If you miss, keep going
and come back again later to try again. I always face a
wall just before my attempts. The proper position of the cursor
is a couple pixels above where the wall meets the floor. Then
I turn and go.
You don't want to face those Oitus at the beginning of the game.
Go attack some worms in the basement. The North exit from the
Parting of the Ways. They provide food and then you can return to
get water. You can do this forever until you are built up a bit.
The worms in the first room are no problem whatsoever after a
bit of practice. I do it regularly with a single reincarnated
champion. Just punch them to death or get the dagger or
the 2-coin sword. The only trick is to not step on the pad that
creates additional worms.
I will perhaps give it another try using your tips. I admit to being still discouraged and nonplussed by being constantly swarmed by super monsters, my inability to find a place to rest and train as well as the constant annoyances of falling through pits and having things taken by gigglers. So far the combination of those things has made the game both unplayable for me and unappealing to me.
I wonder if anybody who is new to the FTL / DM family ever played this game? The folks here for the most part, are clearly fans and mon-masters at the game family. I was, in my DM days, a lo master or maybe a bit more, but I'm clearly unable to do this game without a few tips and even then may not put up with what I"ve come to think of as annoyances rather than the challenges I found in DM.
Oh, I did borrow a keyboard which made my navigation of the quick room possible. Now I"m back to the wirless which is slower, but still fast enough to have followed the dragon easily. I expect it'll suffice.
In the end, I'm a bit disappointed that CSB seems to be DM with harder monsters thrown in which are even a worse balance against me than RTC was (which was hard enough!). The added aspect of trading exploration for twitch is even a great disappointment so far. I will reconsider and perhaps try again later on.
I appreciate your tips and have a great deal of respect for your port here. -Paul Cassel
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Oh, no. Do not give up. CSB is only hard until you learn
about it. Once you master it you can run through it as slowly
and as quietly and as smoothly and as easily as you please.
That is why we created the competition. For a bit of a
challenge. The fun part of CSB is mastering its intracacies.
Every one of the difficult sections seems to have an answer
that makes it easy. Many of these answers were not at all
obvious to me even after playing through the game many,
many times. Watching other people's games taught me a lot.
Watch one of the 11-hour movies to see how some of the
puzzles were solved back when we were (relative) novices.
about it. Once you master it you can run through it as slowly
and as quietly and as smoothly and as easily as you please.
That is why we created the competition. For a bit of a
challenge. The fun part of CSB is mastering its intracacies.
Every one of the difficult sections seems to have an answer
that makes it easy. Many of these answers were not at all
obvious to me even after playing through the game many,
many times. Watching other people's games taught me a lot.
Watch one of the 11-hour movies to see how some of the
puzzles were solved back when we were (relative) novices.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
OK, I'll give it another go. The puzzles so far are non-existent. Instead I'm constantly falling through floors and getting lost. Unlike DM, I can't seem to find my way back to where I was when I fell through or, I get distracted by a fight and then fall through somewheres else.
I'm a bit bemused over the prospect of sitting thorugh an 11 hour movie, however! I may have a look at a shorter one and then try again, but sadly my retirement got cut very short by the US's stockmarket woes so I"m back in the hunt again - albiet a bit against my will.
I still maintain, but will concede that perhaps I'm wrong, that this game is balanced about where RTC is at mid level - which, I think, is well deep into being biased against a player like myself who isn't coming in with a super team. My chief concern now is the lack of flasks in which to insert potions. That minor item would make a huge difference to me now.
-Paul
I'm a bit bemused over the prospect of sitting thorugh an 11 hour movie, however! I may have a look at a shorter one and then try again, but sadly my retirement got cut very short by the US's stockmarket woes so I"m back in the hunt again - albiet a bit against my will.
I still maintain, but will concede that perhaps I'm wrong, that this game is balanced about where RTC is at mid level - which, I think, is well deep into being biased against a player like myself who isn't coming in with a super team. My chief concern now is the lack of flasks in which to insert potions. That minor item would make a huge difference to me now.
-Paul
After thinking about it for a while I come to the conclusion that there are two types of "experience", which give you a feeling about a game, movie or whatsoever.
. Being a Star Wars fan from my youth I thougt it must be a matter of age, that I am no more into it, but after seeing the Lord of the Rings my mind changed.. With the annoying result that I now know Episode 2 was REALLY horrible.. 
The same applies to games. I never found a game with this incomparable well balanced combination. The game I enjoyed most after DM was Diablo 1, because of the dark atmosphere and this "find weapon, armor and gold" thing..
- The first one is the one depending on lifetime experience. These are games (or movies) impressing you with
something you've never seen before. You are able to do things, you could never before, but that's it.
I would consider Wing Commander as such a game, which was new, fun and lots of people liked to play, but looking back I think it was fun (nothing more).
I am sure you can find lots of (newer) games to which this applies also.
The problem is only, the older you are the more "thrilling" something has to be, compared to what you have seen before. For example the same guy who was sitting thrilled in the cinema watching those Japanese Godzilla Films in the 70th, laughs today at films, which are much better and more thrilling, because he became used to it.
The second type experience you'll get if you find something that is really a diamond compared to everything else you experienced before. Everything is well assembled to form an outstanding unit. (Sorry about the wording, but don't know how to express it). This kind of experience is not so much depending on the lifetime experience (maybe a little) and it lasts much longer than simply being impressed by something.
DM was such a piece, because it was graphically impressive at its time and had no major design flaws, which could prevent you from finding your way to Lord chaos. It had a great fight, search, puzzle and reward combination and was solvable even for the "normal" player, without a lack of challenge for experienced users.
. Being a Star Wars fan from my youth I thougt it must be a matter of age, that I am no more into it, but after seeing the Lord of the Rings my mind changed.. With the annoying result that I now know Episode 2 was REALLY horrible.. The same applies to games. I never found a game with this incomparable well balanced combination. The game I enjoyed most after DM was Diablo 1, because of the dark atmosphere and this "find weapon, armor and gold" thing..
-->Peace is only a matter of tolerance and knowledge <--
Slide: Yes, CSB might throw you, but keep going
Do you know what the junction of ways is yet? This area is ytour safe haven, if you play right, and the breathign space. It is near the start, but if you keep fallig nthrough pits you might not have foudn it yet! It also adds the structure to what is otherwise a non-linear game.
DM was a straight guided journey through a dungeon. CSB is a dungeon, and you find your own way through it. It is very non-linear, in that fallign down a pit can take you to diffrent places and paths. For example you took a bad fall at the start of the game and ended up at the mid-point of the fighter path with the dragon!
Also, monsters aren't as badly balanced as you may think. For example floods can be stemmed. But you definitely have to be more carful in exploration.
edit: oops, i would agree you couldn't just come into it before dm, but i would disagree you need either a super party or to be compeltely fluent in dm and be able to play blindfolded.
flasks are and aren't rare. There is at least one available near the start, which is one of the puzzles we have mentioned : )
Do you know what the junction of ways is yet? This area is ytour safe haven, if you play right, and the breathign space. It is near the start, but if you keep fallig nthrough pits you might not have foudn it yet! It also adds the structure to what is otherwise a non-linear game.
DM was a straight guided journey through a dungeon. CSB is a dungeon, and you find your own way through it. It is very non-linear, in that fallign down a pit can take you to diffrent places and paths. For example you took a bad fall at the start of the game and ended up at the mid-point of the fighter path with the dragon!
Also, monsters aren't as badly balanced as you may think. For example floods can be stemmed. But you definitely have to be more carful in exploration.
edit: oops, i would agree you couldn't just come into it before dm, but i would disagree you need either a super party or to be compeltely fluent in dm and be able to play blindfolded.
flasks are and aren't rare. There is at least one available near the start, which is one of the puzzles we have mentioned : )
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
That statement seems to me to be an oxymoron.The puzzles so far are non-existent. Instead I'm constantly falling through floors and getting lost
Avoiding such catastophies and finding your way
around the dungeon is the overall puzzle to be solved.
Edit: By the way, playing the movies in fast mode
can make an 11-hour movie finish in 30 minutes or so.
For Slide
reading these threads, when I played CSB many years ago, after surviving years of DM (are we masochists?), I realised I needed some guidance in the form of a map. The maps amazed me - all the levels, stairways, and pits and traps. There were no forums back then for help like there is here, or if there was, the Internet was very new and not many people using it, and all my friends thought I was crazy playing these games.
I am not a 'brave' warrior - just a cautious plodder, and if I fell down a pit more than twice I would re-examine my tactics, watch what was going on around me, look at the timing of the pits, and plan accordingly. I would study my surroundings and not just run around the levels without being prepared. The maps were the only help I had - I was left to solve all the puzzles myself and always used imported characters from DM.
I always played Handel's Messiah when I played CSB and to this day, whenever I hear this music anywhere, instant recall is caverns of dragons converging from all directions, or scatterings of dragon steaks, and gates with dragons behind or in front. Running back to the staircase to escape their mighty fireballs while I tried to get to the power towers!!! Not to mention all those nasty gurgling pits! Now, somehow its not right for me to play CSB without Handel's Messiah playing.
Get a map of the dungeon if youre having so much trouble and frustration - its a great help and will make your experience change from disappointing to WOW!
I never completed the final level - got fried from all directions, but I did at least reach it. Something inside me perhaps doesnt want to finish either DM or CSB because it just might be that once I achieve that eg kill Chaos, a fantasy is over for me - and do I want this epic fantasy to end?
Watching the movies has been great help to me too as I intend to start CSB once I complete DM this time around, on CSBwin. (been playing on Steem engine which is slow like the original Atari).
I am not a 'brave' warrior - just a cautious plodder, and if I fell down a pit more than twice I would re-examine my tactics, watch what was going on around me, look at the timing of the pits, and plan accordingly. I would study my surroundings and not just run around the levels without being prepared. The maps were the only help I had - I was left to solve all the puzzles myself and always used imported characters from DM.
I always played Handel's Messiah when I played CSB and to this day, whenever I hear this music anywhere, instant recall is caverns of dragons converging from all directions, or scatterings of dragon steaks, and gates with dragons behind or in front. Running back to the staircase to escape their mighty fireballs while I tried to get to the power towers!!! Not to mention all those nasty gurgling pits! Now, somehow its not right for me to play CSB without Handel's Messiah playing.
Get a map of the dungeon if youre having so much trouble and frustration - its a great help and will make your experience change from disappointing to WOW!
I never completed the final level - got fried from all directions, but I did at least reach it. Something inside me perhaps doesnt want to finish either DM or CSB because it just might be that once I achieve that eg kill Chaos, a fantasy is over for me - and do I want this epic fantasy to end?
Watching the movies has been great help to me too as I intend to start CSB once I complete DM this time around, on CSBwin. (been playing on Steem engine which is slow like the original Atari).
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Checked back here after a bit more trying.
Denise, did you use a DM super team or one from the game? I agree that maps would help, but I can't associate a map location with my own. For example, taking Paul's suggestion, I went to the north side of the junction where I did, as he predicted, fall into a place full of worms. There I practiced my team for a while although the matter would soon end in problems as I was out of water.
As much as I searched, I never found a way out of that place. I assume a fake wall but never located that or a button to operate a door or a transporter. I did note that worms sometimes seemed to vanish which implied a transporter, but one triggered mysteriously. Then again, perhaps they just retreated.
Somehow, when moving through this area, I left it. I moved to a place where there is no water again, many elementals and fireballs. Each place I've been seems to be a regen area. I can't clean a place out, then explore as I did DM. Instead there are always more until my team is exhausted as I am mentally. My team now has accumulated many hits making us a walking wounded group unable to move fast nor can I find a flask to cast healing potions which would make us fast enough to handle what we face now.
As to the maps, I can see the problems which are constant regnne'd monsters, fireballs and a team w/o a flask unable to face these. Sure, if I started anew, I'd likely be able to get near here with fewer wounds, but so what? The next area would only be the same - an unending parade of monsters, hidden pits and hidden tranporters or somethings.
I think this game was balanced for a super DM team import and super DM players. That the vets here can do this isn't applicable to me, IMO. Drop me personally down anywhere in the US SW desert and I'll know how to survive and where I am based on the geology, but that will do you no good nor will my saying that it's easy for me help you if you should find yourself in a similar situation.
It may be coming down to something as simple as just needing a simple flask. I may have another go at it later after I gather my discouragement once again, but this is one discouraging game. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Denise, did you use a DM super team or one from the game? I agree that maps would help, but I can't associate a map location with my own. For example, taking Paul's suggestion, I went to the north side of the junction where I did, as he predicted, fall into a place full of worms. There I practiced my team for a while although the matter would soon end in problems as I was out of water.
As much as I searched, I never found a way out of that place. I assume a fake wall but never located that or a button to operate a door or a transporter. I did note that worms sometimes seemed to vanish which implied a transporter, but one triggered mysteriously. Then again, perhaps they just retreated.
Somehow, when moving through this area, I left it. I moved to a place where there is no water again, many elementals and fireballs. Each place I've been seems to be a regen area. I can't clean a place out, then explore as I did DM. Instead there are always more until my team is exhausted as I am mentally. My team now has accumulated many hits making us a walking wounded group unable to move fast nor can I find a flask to cast healing potions which would make us fast enough to handle what we face now.
As to the maps, I can see the problems which are constant regnne'd monsters, fireballs and a team w/o a flask unable to face these. Sure, if I started anew, I'd likely be able to get near here with fewer wounds, but so what? The next area would only be the same - an unending parade of monsters, hidden pits and hidden tranporters or somethings.
I think this game was balanced for a super DM team import and super DM players. That the vets here can do this isn't applicable to me, IMO. Drop me personally down anywhere in the US SW desert and I'll know how to survive and where I am based on the geology, but that will do you no good nor will my saying that it's easy for me help you if you should find yourself in a similar situation.
It may be coming down to something as simple as just needing a simple flask. I may have another go at it later after I gather my discouragement once again, but this is one discouraging game. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Hi Slide,
CSB is much harder than DM in my opinion (until you know it by heart). You should get the flask near the beginning and try to get all the supplies for the quick before moving on, IMHO.
But why despair on CSB? There are a dozen of worthwhile custom dungeons whith varying degrees of difficulty and different gameplay. Surely you'll find one that suits you. And after trying several of them and getting back to CSB, you'll probably find it easier
CSB is much harder than DM in my opinion (until you know it by heart). You should get the flask near the beginning and try to get all the supplies for the quick before moving on, IMHO.
But why despair on CSB? There are a dozen of worthwhile custom dungeons whith varying degrees of difficulty and different gameplay. Surely you'll find one that suits you. And after trying several of them and getting back to CSB, you'll probably find it easier
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Spoiler******Spoiler******Spoiler****
There is one thing you simply MUST know. At the Parting of
the Ways there are four exits. Each takes you to one of the
four main paths. At each there is an Alcove that can be
triggered with the original item to allow you back to
the junction. ****AND**** just beyond each Alcove there
are two teleporters that turn on and off continuously. You
cannot see them. Each teleporter takes you to a different
part of its particular path (Neta, Ros, etc). If you just walk
forward then there is almost no way to know which part of
the path you will be transferred to.
Here is what I do. I place an inexpensive object on the square
in front of me. Wait a few seconds. If it does not disappear
then walk forward and try again. When it disappears you know
the teleporters have been turned on for an instant and turned
off again. Now you have about one second to step forward
once to the first teleporter, step forward twice to the second
teleporter, or step forward thrice to avoid the teleporters
entirely.
They probably should have made the teleporter be 'Party-Only'
to avoid such techniques. Unfortunately, that was not one of
the available teleporter options.
Before I knew this trick I had great difficulty understanding
what was happening to me. I managed to get through the
DDD area by drawing my own maps but I never understood.
Then my Atari died. So 12 years later I wrote CSBwin to
continue the adventure.....
At any rate, Chaos Strikes Back is crammed with such
puzzles as this. It is a beautiful work, limited only by the
physical limitations of the Atari and the size of its memory
and floppy disks. ConfluxII has been somewhat relieved of
these restrictions and is also quite a work of art, in my opinion.
There is one thing you simply MUST know. At the Parting of
the Ways there are four exits. Each takes you to one of the
four main paths. At each there is an Alcove that can be
triggered with the original item to allow you back to
the junction. ****AND**** just beyond each Alcove there
are two teleporters that turn on and off continuously. You
cannot see them. Each teleporter takes you to a different
part of its particular path (Neta, Ros, etc). If you just walk
forward then there is almost no way to know which part of
the path you will be transferred to.
Here is what I do. I place an inexpensive object on the square
in front of me. Wait a few seconds. If it does not disappear
then walk forward and try again. When it disappears you know
the teleporters have been turned on for an instant and turned
off again. Now you have about one second to step forward
once to the first teleporter, step forward twice to the second
teleporter, or step forward thrice to avoid the teleporters
entirely.
They probably should have made the teleporter be 'Party-Only'
to avoid such techniques. Unfortunately, that was not one of
the available teleporter options.
Before I knew this trick I had great difficulty understanding
what was happening to me. I managed to get through the
DDD area by drawing my own maps but I never understood.
Then my Atari died. So 12 years later I wrote CSBwin to
continue the adventure.....
At any rate, Chaos Strikes Back is crammed with such
puzzles as this. It is a beautiful work, limited only by the
physical limitations of the Atari and the size of its memory
and floppy disks. ConfluxII has been somewhat relieved of
these restrictions and is also quite a work of art, in my opinion.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Thank you for your spoiler. I doubt you spoiled anythnig for me. That has clarified things quite a bit for me. I had no idea what was happening. Since I already had worries about this wireless setup, I actually had concluded that the keyboard was sending out spurious signals which accounted for what seemed to me to be my party's random moves through the dungeon.
Now for a few further semi - spoilers if you or others are willing. Is the entire dungeon a huge regen place or is it possible to, like DM, clean an area then rest and recover? Am I missing flasks as I go along or are they really non-existent in this game? If non-existent, then how does one heal?
Lastly, is anybody aware of a semi-newbie like myself succeeding in this game using the stock chars (from the prison)? I consider myself a decent game player and was a decent DM'er (almost 20 years past) and am just getting creamed in this game. I find it tough to believe that someone who bought this game, as I did DM, with no experience and no super trained team, could have done any better than my pathetic ateempts, but am curious to know if I'm wrong. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Now for a few further semi - spoilers if you or others are willing. Is the entire dungeon a huge regen place or is it possible to, like DM, clean an area then rest and recover? Am I missing flasks as I go along or are they really non-existent in this game? If non-existent, then how does one heal?
Lastly, is anybody aware of a semi-newbie like myself succeeding in this game using the stock chars (from the prison)? I consider myself a decent game player and was a decent DM'er (almost 20 years past) and am just getting creamed in this game. I find it tough to believe that someone who bought this game, as I did DM, with no experience and no super trained team, could have done any better than my pathetic ateempts, but am curious to know if I'm wrong. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
I was new to CSB because I could never get a hold of it until the clones, and I found playing a single charatcer, ressurected, I got to the four corbums fine
Actually, I just played through the start. Nothing fancy, infact I simply used my favourite character, all the resourses around, and spellslinging. Just to show you can quite quickly get through it, and find a flask. If you want to spend longer saving your resourses and punch your way through, and infact not go for the sword at all and get the rope, that's a better way : )
Download it at http://www.dmjump.net/csbstart.zip , you need the latest csb4win engine form the confluxIItest package to play it back, i would guess
I didn't want to spoil too much and show the secrets in the 'supplies for the quick', but there is a secret area there too
As for respawning. Some areas do, and usually it is triggered. There are safe havens, there are routes back to safe havens.
For example, i nthe dragon level, there was both a staircase back up, and also, throguh a flase wall, a shortcut back to the junction of ways, the ultimate safe haven.
Actually, I just played through the start. Nothing fancy, infact I simply used my favourite character, all the resourses around, and spellslinging. Just to show you can quite quickly get through it, and find a flask. If you want to spend longer saving your resourses and punch your way through, and infact not go for the sword at all and get the rope, that's a better way : )
Download it at http://www.dmjump.net/csbstart.zip , you need the latest csb4win engine form the confluxIItest package to play it back, i would guess
I didn't want to spoil too much and show the secrets in the 'supplies for the quick', but there is a secret area there too
As for respawning. Some areas do, and usually it is triggered. There are safe havens, there are routes back to safe havens.
For example, i nthe dragon level, there was both a staircase back up, and also, throguh a flase wall, a shortcut back to the junction of ways, the ultimate safe haven.
Last edited by beowuuf on Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
As I said before, I bought this game for the Atari and
finished it about one-half before my machine died. I had
no maps except what I tried to make for myself. They were
not very good. I did not import characters-I used the stock
characters from the prison. But you are right that it is hard.
You can clean the dungeon of monsters. In fact, that is
one of the alternate goals....to clean it of monsters and
items of interest. See the 'Misc' Menu. It will show you
what items still are lying around and what Monsters are
still alive and kicking. This list can be completely emptied.
But you are not going to clean it easily unless you locate the
(mainly) Pressure Pads that cause Monster generation. That
is critical and difficult. Most of these pads are within a few
squares of the generator so that you can locate them if
you are very patient and observant.
*** Spoiler*** Spoiler ***
There is a Flask in one of the exits from the initial Worm
area. The 'Run-and-Jump' exit. Run down the hallway
at full speed (to avoid the pit) and step to your left at the
first opportunity. The Flask is down that hallway. There
are many other Flasks but they are much harder to obtain.
There are two pressure pads that generate worms in the
basement worm area. There are two False-Wall exits from
that room. One to a stairway and one to a teleporter that
takes you back to 'Home Base' near the Junction Entrance.
finished it about one-half before my machine died. I had
no maps except what I tried to make for myself. They were
not very good. I did not import characters-I used the stock
characters from the prison. But you are right that it is hard.
You can clean the dungeon of monsters. In fact, that is
one of the alternate goals....to clean it of monsters and
items of interest. See the 'Misc' Menu. It will show you
what items still are lying around and what Monsters are
still alive and kicking. This list can be completely emptied.
But you are not going to clean it easily unless you locate the
(mainly) Pressure Pads that cause Monster generation. That
is critical and difficult. Most of these pads are within a few
squares of the generator so that you can locate them if
you are very patient and observant.
*** Spoiler*** Spoiler ***
There is a Flask in one of the exits from the initial Worm
area. The 'Run-and-Jump' exit. Run down the hallway
at full speed (to avoid the pit) and step to your left at the
first opportunity. The Flask is down that hallway. There
are many other Flasks but they are much harder to obtain.
There are two pressure pads that generate worms in the
basement worm area. There are two False-Wall exits from
that room. One to a stairway and one to a teleporter that
takes you back to 'Home Base' near the Junction Entrance.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Starting anew is not really a new idea. I think the record-I think I'm going to start anew, however
holder for speed 'started anew' more than 100 times.
I'm sure that I have played that opening Worm Room at
least 50 times. Several times it was after a couple hours
of play (We were not allowed to save and resume in the
speed contest).
for Slide
I havent playedCSB for many years but its etched forever in my nightmares. I imported my champions from DM and if memory serves me well, they had their stats halved upon entering, naked, and what a terrible scare I received to be thrust into this huge hall full of worms!!! or mummies, or 'quelle horoor' rock piles!!! If you look carefully at the floor you can see the worm regenerator - usually a hexagonal tile - I am going from memory back about 12 years here.
I didnt have much trouble getting the weapons and food and the monsters were horrid but....its just a game.
Yes, there is a stairway where you can rest from the dragon slaughter - I spent many a night regaining mana and strength, living off my killings
there to the strains of the overture of handels messiah - very gothic, and most appropriate.
I tried once with CSB warriors and if you choose wisely they are pretty good. Go the the CSB Encycolpaedia - read the hint book, read everything you can get to get wise to the game.
I am dreading re entry to CSB but there comes a time when you must progress to greater things, and DM does have it limitations by comparison. A truly twisted and warped genius thought up CSB.
I am not one of these genius's here - reading the threads showing just how devoted and committed to the challenge of these games is humbling - these people have re-written these games for us. I cant even start to imagine how difficult that has been. And its been all done "for the love of the games". Nothing else.
You and I are probably as good as eachother in the game - when I played it I read the manuals for weeks before I even opened the game up - had to be prepared - knew I wouldnt survive just stumbling around blind. Yes CSB is a huge 'nightmare' and almost the ultimate challenge in my small opinion.
Please find your flask, choose just 2 warriors with balanced skills - I play far better with 2 than 4. Find the cross ways where there is water and relax and enjoy. Less food and water required and your skills advance much qucker and you dont have to worry about healing 4 people - just 2.
You have been given lots of advice and good tips - I remember back when I got stuck before the Internet became popular, putting an advertisement in the personal column of the newspaper asking for help. Alas, no one heard my plea!!!!
Send the family away for the weekend and take the phone off the hook, lock the doors and windows and get into the game after reading all the good hints and help available at the site.
I didnt have much trouble getting the weapons and food and the monsters were horrid but....its just a game.
Yes, there is a stairway where you can rest from the dragon slaughter - I spent many a night regaining mana and strength, living off my killings
there to the strains of the overture of handels messiah - very gothic, and most appropriate.I tried once with CSB warriors and if you choose wisely they are pretty good. Go the the CSB Encycolpaedia - read the hint book, read everything you can get to get wise to the game.
I am dreading re entry to CSB but there comes a time when you must progress to greater things, and DM does have it limitations by comparison. A truly twisted and warped genius thought up CSB.
I am not one of these genius's here - reading the threads showing just how devoted and committed to the challenge of these games is humbling - these people have re-written these games for us. I cant even start to imagine how difficult that has been. And its been all done "for the love of the games". Nothing else.
You and I are probably as good as eachother in the game - when I played it I read the manuals for weeks before I even opened the game up - had to be prepared - knew I wouldnt survive just stumbling around blind. Yes CSB is a huge 'nightmare' and almost the ultimate challenge in my small opinion.
Please find your flask, choose just 2 warriors with balanced skills - I play far better with 2 than 4. Find the cross ways where there is water and relax and enjoy. Less food and water required and your skills advance much qucker and you dont have to worry about healing 4 people - just 2.
You have been given lots of advice and good tips - I remember back when I got stuck before the Internet became popular, putting an advertisement in the personal column of the newspaper asking for help. Alas, no one heard my plea!!!!
Send the family away for the weekend and take the phone off the hook, lock the doors and windows and get into the game after reading all the good hints and help available at the site.
for Slide
you state the maps dont tell you where you are. What I did
****spoiler****
was get the maps, mark walls and pits with black ink then hold them up to a light and this will show you where you will either fall to, or the staircase ends up.
I could do about 3 layers with this method but you must align absolutely correctly, make sure north is north on each page etc.
****spoiler****
was get the maps, mark walls and pits with black ink then hold them up to a light and this will show you where you will either fall to, or the staircase ends up.
I could do about 3 layers with this method but you must align absolutely correctly, make sure north is north on each page etc.-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
What game is EOB please? I see it mentioned here and cant think what it is.
Also, when using maps to find out where you are going, been etc, I would get the complete set, mark each side E,W,N or South, number each page with its level, and when aligning, holding to the light, several sheets, I would place a pin through the paper - this would show me where I was dropping to, until eventually you hit solid ground.
Look around where you will land and see what could be lurking nearby - perhaps you have already been there and will be prepared - perhaps not. Remember, you can also climb down a pit if you have a rope. Mark where you have been in highlight pen.
I took the game seriously - it deserves this respect - it is not a slash, burn and run game - its the most pure form of strategy role playing in my humble opinion, advancing the DM ideals to the nth degree. I think it took me around 18 months to get to the level of the chaos and his devils where I eventually gave up. I enjoyed every sweaty, mind numbing, confusing and adrenalin rushing minute of it too...
Also, when using maps to find out where you are going, been etc, I would get the complete set, mark each side E,W,N or South, number each page with its level, and when aligning, holding to the light, several sheets, I would place a pin through the paper - this would show me where I was dropping to, until eventually you hit solid ground.
Look around where you will land and see what could be lurking nearby - perhaps you have already been there and will be prepared - perhaps not. Remember, you can also climb down a pit if you have a rope. Mark where you have been in highlight pen.
I took the game seriously - it deserves this respect - it is not a slash, burn and run game - its the most pure form of strategy role playing in my humble opinion, advancing the DM ideals to the nth degree. I think it took me around 18 months to get to the level of the chaos and his devils where I eventually gave up. I enjoyed every sweaty, mind numbing, confusing and adrenalin rushing minute of it too...
*Spoiler again*
Ok Slide, I understand that CSB can be quite frustrating until you have understood the basics of it's dungeon structure. I highly recommend that a CSB-player is a very skilled DungeonMasterI-player before he actually gets involved with CSB. Many years ago I might not have gained that understanading of underlying game mechanix to CSB if I hadn't have the maps from the PowerPlay magazine. Those maps have been quite good, but not nearly as good as the maps from the Encyclopaedia (http://dmweb.free.fr/) . I think you should use the Encyclopaedia maps (and refer to it's exact coordinates when posting a quesion). Your main problem at the beginning will obviously be that you do not yet recognize the 12 possible starting points after the Junction of Ways, because they are not marked in the maps, so I will tell their coordinates now to you: They are (z7/x21/y22) (z8/x26/y25) (z5/x12/y27) ; (z7/x21/y18) (z8/x26/y21) (z5/x05/y04) ; (z7/x23/y20) (z8/x24/y23) (z5/x03/y06) ; (z7/x19/y20) (z8/x28/y23) (z5/x03/y02)
From the JoW there are 4 mostly separate pathes to the games destination, they mock the unitiy of skill of those who follow the path to become an arcmaster: The Fighter's path Ku, the Ninja's path Ros, the Priest's path Neta and the Wizard's path Dain. Each of them primarily has challenges in accordance to the character class it names. All of them lead to the same destination - the Diabolical Demon Director at Level 3 (z3/x07/y24). For each path there is a unique way to pass through that tricky part of the dungeon (requiring a special key for each path that can be found earlier along that path). After that, the 4 pathes split again to meet again at the Corbum pilar (z1/x31/y23): At each side of that pilar is one of the 4 Corbums you need to complete the game. Mostly the other Corbums can't be reached from another path, so if you gain a Corbum you have to restart at the JoW to complete the other pathes too. Some people prefer to start with Ku so they are well armed for the remaining pathes, then proceed to Ros, Neta, Dain. I recommend exactly the opposite: Start with Dain before you gain all those pieces of heavy armor from Ku so you have plenty of space for all other kinds of stuff, heavy armor won't be nessesary to complete those more "esoteric" pathes; proceed then to Neta, Ros, Ku. At the end of each path deposit all items you don't really need at the JoW. Besides, if you proceed to the very end of Ku and take the famous Dragon Fang sword you will trigger and endless worm generator which may flood the top level where Lord Chaos resides with worms until you finally return there. To answer the question about save havens: Just beware the monster generator trigger floorpads (mosty invisible), they are marked in the Encyclopaedia's maps. To complete the game you have to throw all 4 Corbums to the tile beyond the FulYaPit at Level 0 (z0/x18/y38), but beware, Lord Chaos himself is roaming about that area.
Junction of the Ways: z7/x21/y20
Ku: z7/x21/y22 or teleport to: z8/x26/y25 or z5/x12/y27
Ros z7/x21/y18 or teleport to: z8/x26/y21 or z5/x05/y04
Neta: z7/x23/y20 or teleport to: z8/x24/y23 or z5/x03/y06
Dain: z7/x19/y20 or teleport to: z8/x28/y23 or z5/x03/y02
DDD: z3/x07/y24
Corbum Pillar: z1/x31/y23
FulYa Pit: z0/x18/y38
Ok Slide, I understand that CSB can be quite frustrating until you have understood the basics of it's dungeon structure. I highly recommend that a CSB-player is a very skilled DungeonMasterI-player before he actually gets involved with CSB. Many years ago I might not have gained that understanading of underlying game mechanix to CSB if I hadn't have the maps from the PowerPlay magazine. Those maps have been quite good, but not nearly as good as the maps from the Encyclopaedia (http://dmweb.free.fr/) . I think you should use the Encyclopaedia maps (and refer to it's exact coordinates when posting a quesion). Your main problem at the beginning will obviously be that you do not yet recognize the 12 possible starting points after the Junction of Ways, because they are not marked in the maps, so I will tell their coordinates now to you: They are (z7/x21/y22) (z8/x26/y25) (z5/x12/y27) ; (z7/x21/y18) (z8/x26/y21) (z5/x05/y04) ; (z7/x23/y20) (z8/x24/y23) (z5/x03/y06) ; (z7/x19/y20) (z8/x28/y23) (z5/x03/y02)
From the JoW there are 4 mostly separate pathes to the games destination, they mock the unitiy of skill of those who follow the path to become an arcmaster: The Fighter's path Ku, the Ninja's path Ros, the Priest's path Neta and the Wizard's path Dain. Each of them primarily has challenges in accordance to the character class it names. All of them lead to the same destination - the Diabolical Demon Director at Level 3 (z3/x07/y24). For each path there is a unique way to pass through that tricky part of the dungeon (requiring a special key for each path that can be found earlier along that path). After that, the 4 pathes split again to meet again at the Corbum pilar (z1/x31/y23): At each side of that pilar is one of the 4 Corbums you need to complete the game. Mostly the other Corbums can't be reached from another path, so if you gain a Corbum you have to restart at the JoW to complete the other pathes too. Some people prefer to start with Ku so they are well armed for the remaining pathes, then proceed to Ros, Neta, Dain. I recommend exactly the opposite: Start with Dain before you gain all those pieces of heavy armor from Ku so you have plenty of space for all other kinds of stuff, heavy armor won't be nessesary to complete those more "esoteric" pathes; proceed then to Neta, Ros, Ku. At the end of each path deposit all items you don't really need at the JoW. Besides, if you proceed to the very end of Ku and take the famous Dragon Fang sword you will trigger and endless worm generator which may flood the top level where Lord Chaos resides with worms until you finally return there. To answer the question about save havens: Just beware the monster generator trigger floorpads (mosty invisible), they are marked in the Encyclopaedia's maps. To complete the game you have to throw all 4 Corbums to the tile beyond the FulYaPit at Level 0 (z0/x18/y38), but beware, Lord Chaos himself is roaming about that area.
Junction of the Ways: z7/x21/y20
Ku: z7/x21/y22 or teleport to: z8/x26/y25 or z5/x12/y27
Ros z7/x21/y18 or teleport to: z8/x26/y21 or z5/x05/y04
Neta: z7/x23/y20 or teleport to: z8/x24/y23 or z5/x03/y06
Dain: z7/x19/y20 or teleport to: z8/x28/y23 or z5/x03/y02
DDD: z3/x07/y24
Corbum Pillar: z1/x31/y23
FulYa Pit: z0/x18/y38
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I wish to thank all who have contributed to this thread. My problem now is finding the time to actually play the game now that I’m replete with hints, tips and soon maps and other help aids from the encyclopedia. I have never used aids or cheats in the past playing games unless stymied and resisted in CSB which is why I avoided the maps and hints on this Web site beforehand.
However Paul, Denise and Lunever have indirectly answered my query (OK, Lunever directly) about the skill level needed to play this game. I was, perhaps most troubled by my fear that I’d slipped badly from my DM days. Whilst the Internet is new to many (not really me, though), I did avidly participate in the Atarigames forum at old CompuServe where I offered major support to DM players. My first shock now 17 years hence, was playing RTC at mid level and struggling badly. To my surprise, I’d also forgotten a great deal of the dungeon. Once I thought I’d had that committed fully to memory that would never fade. Fade it did.
So when I moved over to CSB I figured that, after being warmed up by mid level RTC, I’d be ready to go only to find that not only was I having a rough go due to the level of the monsters, but I was unable to navigate the dungeon similar to a rank newbie at DM.
I will surely d/l the encyclopedia’s information, but will again try things more on my own than relying on it wholesale. I think I have a feel for what’s happening now. Looking backward, just starting the game without even knowing my goal was an error. I think I was a bit over confident and then underconfident (if such a word exists).
Sadly, my work tasks intrude for the next few days so my time at console will be more toward programming or other mundane tasks of everyday life. I hope by the middle of next week to return to CSB. I will take all’s advice including Denise’s to use a party of 2 rather than 4. I preferred a 2 or a 1 in DM. BTW, my fave char running a single in DM was Tiggy. In there I was unusual. Most folks ran Wuuf. I noted the use of Stamm here as a single. AFAIK, this is the first time I”ve seen Stamm used such (in movies). Until I came here, I didn’t know that War Cry yielded priest points.
I guess there is always more to learn. Again, thanks all.
However Paul, Denise and Lunever have indirectly answered my query (OK, Lunever directly) about the skill level needed to play this game. I was, perhaps most troubled by my fear that I’d slipped badly from my DM days. Whilst the Internet is new to many (not really me, though), I did avidly participate in the Atarigames forum at old CompuServe where I offered major support to DM players. My first shock now 17 years hence, was playing RTC at mid level and struggling badly. To my surprise, I’d also forgotten a great deal of the dungeon. Once I thought I’d had that committed fully to memory that would never fade. Fade it did.
So when I moved over to CSB I figured that, after being warmed up by mid level RTC, I’d be ready to go only to find that not only was I having a rough go due to the level of the monsters, but I was unable to navigate the dungeon similar to a rank newbie at DM.
I will surely d/l the encyclopedia’s information, but will again try things more on my own than relying on it wholesale. I think I have a feel for what’s happening now. Looking backward, just starting the game without even knowing my goal was an error. I think I was a bit over confident and then underconfident (if such a word exists).
Sadly, my work tasks intrude for the next few days so my time at console will be more toward programming or other mundane tasks of everyday life. I hope by the middle of next week to return to CSB. I will take all’s advice including Denise’s to use a party of 2 rather than 4. I preferred a 2 or a 1 in DM. BTW, my fave char running a single in DM was Tiggy. In there I was unusual. Most folks ran Wuuf. I noted the use of Stamm here as a single. AFAIK, this is the first time I”ve seen Stamm used such (in movies). Until I came here, I didn’t know that War Cry yielded priest points.
I guess there is always more to learn. Again, thanks all.
for Slide
I also play Tiggy - doing DM with Tiggy and Wuff only and theyre on the firestaff level, mon masters already and I have yet to get the firestaff or see/kill the dragon. Their combined magic is fabulous and they are also strong warriors eg Expert in everything else.
I only wear the breastplates darc and lite plus the shields. I wear the speedboots or elf boots so they can bear a heavier load.
I am using the atavar of Tiggy found here on this website - the modern Tiggy I should say.
Yes, you could say I am a Tiggy fan !
In a few months time I look forward to reading your threads about what a harrowingly exciting time you are having - now you have some milestones to follow. Bravo!
I only wear the breastplates darc and lite plus the shields. I wear the speedboots or elf boots so they can bear a heavier load.
I am using the atavar of Tiggy found here on this website - the modern Tiggy I should say.
Yes, you could say I am a Tiggy fan
!In a few months time I look forward to reading your threads about what a harrowingly exciting time you are having - now you have some milestones to follow. Bravo!