Stupid question time:
I just downloaded RTC and having a look around and found the book of spells - chose a few champions, picked up the book. However, the spell runes on the right panel are faded and wont work. Is this a bug?
Do i need to do something from the book? like apply it somewhere? The book is faded too.
If I enter a trial dungeon however, with zed the spell runes are working - just not in DM itself.
thanks
We're all gonna die! or: New to DM
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-
cowsmanaut
- Moo Master
- Posts: 4378
- Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:53 am
- Location: canada
heh.. this is partly my fault for suggestion this evil but cool feature way back when. It's a feature that many of us argued and wrestled with for a few weeks or so as I remember and we came up with this. What the spell book does is holds the runes you need. You place a scroll over the open book if it contains runes (like the first one you find with it containing all the power runes) and the runes will drop into the book once you click it. Then those runes become useable in your spell cast window.
The reason for this is when people first play DM they don't know the spells. However, when you've been all through it you usually know most of the more usefull ones or have them all written down. So the spell book is a way of replacing that initial handycap. It also no makes finding those scrolls we tend to cast aside once more an important step in the game. So really it's just an extra challenge.
You can play without this feature if you play DM classic rather than DM RTC. Personally I like the book. I'm one of those peopel who played D&D and other pencil and paper role playing games. You always need to fight other players about Player knowledge vs character knowledge.
"oh they are being attack by orcs so I run in and save them"
"You can't.. you're on the other side of town" "I teleport"
"You don't know they are being attacked you fool"
"but you just said.. "
"ARGH!!!"
if you've DM'ed for people like this.. you know what I mean
Anyway.. now you know
The reason for this is when people first play DM they don't know the spells. However, when you've been all through it you usually know most of the more usefull ones or have them all written down. So the spell book is a way of replacing that initial handycap. It also no makes finding those scrolls we tend to cast aside once more an important step in the game. So really it's just an extra challenge.
You can play without this feature if you play DM classic rather than DM RTC. Personally I like the book. I'm one of those peopel who played D&D and other pencil and paper role playing games. You always need to fight other players about Player knowledge vs character knowledge.
"oh they are being attack by orcs so I run in and save them"
"You can't.. you're on the other side of town" "I teleport"
"You don't know they are being attacked you fool"
"but you just said.. "
"ARGH!!!"
if you've DM'ed for people like this.. you know what I mean
Anyway.. now you know
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I see you have your answer already. What you can also do to accept a different sort of challenge is to crank the game up a notch through config.txt and play classic DM. I will attest that, to me at least, there is a challenge there with all the controls / maps as you already know them.Denise wrote: I just downloaded RTC and having a look around and found the book of spells - chose a few champions, picked up the book. However, the spell runes on the right panel are faded and wont work. Is this a bug?
-Paul
FOR MY GOOD FRIEND....SLIDE
Well Slide - I, who successfully played CSB some12 years ago, decided to descent into the bowels of hell and see just what youve been on about.
I am a little jaded with DM and thoroughly confident, chose 2 champions from the prision and....
descended into the most ghastly place I ever remembered. It was jugular, nail biting torment as I watched myself get slaughtered 6 times in a row, and that was with avoiding what I thought was, the worm genrator!
On one time I was simply surrounded, couldnt pick up the torchs and tried to make light while being eaten alive by these gruesome grubs!
Another time I managed to pick up the chest - what the hell did I need at that particular time, with a chest of rags!!! - got surrounded and died another long death.
The funniest of these sad incidents was I actually did manage to pick up the dagger twice, held it, and by habit kept losing the damn thing by throwing it when I should have been stabbing - I always used to throw daggers and never hand to hand with them and old habits obviously die hard. I kicked myself every every rotten time I did that
!
Another 'death' took the route I managed to get a coin in the slot where the green boxes were but they were no use cause I got stuck in there with all the worms, literally billions of the sods, queueing up to kill us, which they did.
I then managed to get the two coins and put the torch in the wall, found a secret passage with the armour and god clad and tried to get to te 2 coin sword - yeah, right!!!! I got stiffed again but this time, because of the armour, my death was twice as long, no mana, and again I am sure I didnt step on any generators, but there were millions of the things queuing up for dinner!
Its obvious to me I will have to do maps, read up again, and probably die another 50 times until I get the reflexes I once had to endure this most ghastly introduction to a really cruel/cool
game!
If I remember back, the game was slower, on Atari, and we had at least a few milliseconds to react rather than this lightning fast engine we are now on. I may slow the speed down for my initial entry.
Be comforted - its not YOU, its the game and how easily it is to lose your reflexes. I realise I mustnt take it personally, I am not a total idiot, and that it really is a game for the advanced masters.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE MY FRIEND!!!!!
We WILL survive this first entry way - one day lmao.....
I am a little jaded with DM and thoroughly confident, chose 2 champions from the prision and....
descended into the most ghastly place I ever remembered. It was jugular, nail biting torment as I watched myself get slaughtered 6 times in a row, and that was with avoiding what I thought was, the worm genrator!
On one time I was simply surrounded, couldnt pick up the torchs and tried to make light while being eaten alive by these gruesome grubs!
Another time I managed to pick up the chest - what the hell did I need at that particular time, with a chest of rags!!! - got surrounded and died another long death.
The funniest of these sad incidents was I actually did manage to pick up the dagger twice, held it, and by habit kept losing the damn thing by throwing it when I should have been stabbing - I always used to throw daggers and never hand to hand with them and old habits obviously die hard. I kicked myself every every rotten time I did that
!Another 'death' took the route I managed to get a coin in the slot where the green boxes were but they were no use cause I got stuck in there with all the worms, literally billions of the sods, queueing up to kill us, which they did.
I then managed to get the two coins and put the torch in the wall, found a secret passage with the armour and god clad and tried to get to te 2 coin sword - yeah, right!!!! I got stiffed again but this time, because of the armour, my death was twice as long, no mana, and again I am sure I didnt step on any generators, but there were millions of the things queuing up for dinner!
Its obvious to me I will have to do maps, read up again, and probably die another 50 times until I get the reflexes I once had to endure this most ghastly introduction to a really cruel/cool
game! If I remember back, the game was slower, on Atari, and we had at least a few milliseconds to react rather than this lightning fast engine we are now on. I may slow the speed down for my initial entry.
Be comforted - its not YOU, its the game and how easily it is to lose your reflexes. I realise I mustnt take it personally, I am not a total idiot, and that it really is a game for the advanced masters.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE MY FRIEND!!!!!
We WILL survive this first entry way - one day lmao.....
You could always do what I did and import your (CSBWin) DM party. The worms were a piece of cake, a few Mon Ful Irs saw them off in no time. I did originally try with reincarnated CSB characters and got smegged. I later retried the start with reincarnated characters and did it.
Dunno if it counts as cheating, but if you select the DM Rules option prior to reincarnating, you don't get stats halved. This really helps. As you hinted at, setting the speed to "slow" is another semi-cheat.
My winning strategy was as follows: Once in the worm trap, to avoid damage, back step immediately and do not try to pick anything up. Then turn round and run away, avoiding the third worm up ahead who comes to play with you if you stay on the start square for too long. Then cast a few light spells (gains wizard levels) and dance around (mat not required, but do avoid the generator square) kicking the worms at their sides. As soon as they turn to face you, run away. It takes a while and you get lots of ninja levels. Go get Storm and do some chopping to get fighter levels too, but make sure no worms are near when you buy it so you don't get cornered.
Overall I think CSB is one of the toughest but most rewarding computer games ever. Back when I was a young reprobate living with a couple of other young reprobates in a share house, we played it incessantly (on my ST) using a rotating 3-man team of controller, mapper and helper. The only other game we got seriously into was Mega-lo-Mania - we've nuked them!
Dunno if it counts as cheating, but if you select the DM Rules option prior to reincarnating, you don't get stats halved. This really helps. As you hinted at, setting the speed to "slow" is another semi-cheat.
My winning strategy was as follows: Once in the worm trap, to avoid damage, back step immediately and do not try to pick anything up. Then turn round and run away, avoiding the third worm up ahead who comes to play with you if you stay on the start square for too long. Then cast a few light spells (gains wizard levels) and dance around (mat not required, but do avoid the generator square) kicking the worms at their sides. As soon as they turn to face you, run away. It takes a while and you get lots of ninja levels. Go get Storm and do some chopping to get fighter levels too, but make sure no worms are near when you buy it so you don't get cornered.
Overall I think CSB is one of the toughest but most rewarding computer games ever. Back when I was a young reprobate living with a couple of other young reprobates in a share house, we played it incessantly (on my ST) using a rotating 3-man team of controller, mapper and helper. The only other game we got seriously into was Mega-lo-Mania - we've nuked them!
now I have mastered 'entry' and 'danced with worms', got stocked up and 2 flasks with 2 warrior, Petal and Plague, only found 2 iron keys in total and used them up getting through the blue screens in the safe area without going to the 4 ways all the time. I am doing dain - the oitus are tigers compared to DM and its a very tense time.
Slide, if I can do it, you can....have fun
Slide, if I can do it, you can....have fun
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Denise,
Two flasks! I have been out of it for a while and have not tried to play CSB again due to time problems. I figure I need to be in a certain state of mind and body to give this one another go and that hasn’t been forthcoming.
If time permits, I will try again perhaps later this afternoon, but it seems that every time I think I have a few hours, I get involved with another non-CSB detail.
My four team had both Petal and Plague as members. IIRC, I had a problem with Plague taking too many hits. In my DM days, I tended to run magic users mostly favoring Tiggy and perhaps Wuuf. I’m guessing that you tend toward a similarly biased team. How well is Plague doing?
I will report back here when I get my team running again. Oh, and I too only found only two iron keys in that area where you fall after the supplies for the quick room. I don’t know that there are any more. I figure the way it works, you get one shot at a fall through then a return to ‘quick’ before you need to enter the junction and start for real.
I think I tried Dain (I forget) which is north from the junction. I’d not say it was easy, but at least it seemed possibly doable compared to the Oitus in the other ways I tried. My daughter watched me play for a bit and, although a decent gamer herself, she decided not to even try this one. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Two flasks! I have been out of it for a while and have not tried to play CSB again due to time problems. I figure I need to be in a certain state of mind and body to give this one another go and that hasn’t been forthcoming.
If time permits, I will try again perhaps later this afternoon, but it seems that every time I think I have a few hours, I get involved with another non-CSB detail.
My four team had both Petal and Plague as members. IIRC, I had a problem with Plague taking too many hits. In my DM days, I tended to run magic users mostly favoring Tiggy and perhaps Wuuf. I’m guessing that you tend toward a similarly biased team. How well is Plague doing?
I will report back here when I get my team running again. Oh, and I too only found only two iron keys in that area where you fall after the supplies for the quick room. I don’t know that there are any more. I figure the way it works, you get one shot at a fall through then a return to ‘quick’ before you need to enter the junction and start for real.
I think I tried Dain (I forget) which is north from the junction. I’d not say it was easy, but at least it seemed possibly doable compared to the Oitus in the other ways I tried. My daughter watched me play for a bit and, although a decent gamer herself, she decided not to even try this one. -Paul Cassel, NM, USA
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Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Fear not. I always finish the game with a pile of Iron Keys
stored safely at 'Safe Haven'. Moreover, there are other ways
of getting to the 'Supplies for the Quick'. Plenty of ways
to get everywhere, as a matter of fact. The only real bottleneck
is the DDD area which you must pass through to get to the
upper levels. You need not worry about that for a long time.
stored safely at 'Safe Haven'. Moreover, there are other ways
of getting to the 'Supplies for the Quick'. Plenty of ways
to get everywhere, as a matter of fact. The only real bottleneck
is the DDD area which you must pass through to get to the
upper levels. You need not worry about that for a long time.
Petal is fabulous, and Plague does take quite a few hits compared but is doing just fine. I started Dain and got creamed by the oitus at the crossroads. Cant remember how it works but I tried to get to the area which has stuff instead of just blank dungeon and blank stairways and the oitus simply slaughtered me. Must be a trick with the pads and gates. I did find a few more keys and tried that trick of jumping down without boots but there was only an iron key there, not an onyx.
I like Petal for her mana and stamina and Plague for his strength and mana - its his stamina which seems to let him down. I think you need the mana in both instead of Petal as a magician and a warrior with low mana.
When I couldnt make it at the beginning I didnt play it again for about a week - and felt almost sweaty just thinking about it. I then adopted the strategy as suggested and ran away and got the sword and my objective was to get the flask as the injuries dont heal unless you have the potion unlike in DM. You can sleep all you like but this burns up fuel and you still have the injury.
Vague nightmares are returning as I redo CSB, and it amazes me how I got so far before.
I look forward to hearing how you progress Slide.
My thanks to all gamers your tips and advice for getting me started again.
I like Petal for her mana and stamina and Plague for his strength and mana - its his stamina which seems to let him down. I think you need the mana in both instead of Petal as a magician and a warrior with low mana.
When I couldnt make it at the beginning I didnt play it again for about a week - and felt almost sweaty just thinking about it. I then adopted the strategy as suggested and ran away and got the sword and my objective was to get the flask as the injuries dont heal unless you have the potion unlike in DM. You can sleep all you like but this burns up fuel and you still have the injury.
Vague nightmares are returning as I redo CSB, and it amazes me how I got so far before.
I look forward to hearing how you progress Slide.
My thanks to all gamers your tips and advice for getting me started again.
-
Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Denise,
I’m trying again finally having a few hours in which to do so. I find that I’m doing much better than before due to the hints given here on this forum. I still am unsure that I’m doing well. I did manage to get all I wished to get from the quick supplies room even surviving with an extra iron key. My confidence rose, if not soared, with my finishing the worm room, getting some needed supplies there and then the flask which I so desperately needed before. Feeling somewhat armed, I went off to start the game in earnest. I still am feeling a bit hassled at the constant supply of monsters. I can find few safe places to think and regroup. For example, some sort of flying eye kept bugging me in quick supplies. They seemed to re-gen there as others do throughout the game (or it seemed to me).
I saved and then went off to try a ‘way’. I did snap to the fact that you can spin around at this junction to find other ways. Before it seemed somewhat random to me. Oh, my team is Buzzz and Petal.
I tried KU as my starter finding it very difficult. In fact, I failed. My first foray resulted in my being cornered by a skull knight. My second got me cornered between a midget wizard and some red flying vacuum cleaners. Now I know these are not the right names, but that’s what they looked like to me. My third try at KU resulted in a different layout leading me to a place full of mummies. They were easily dispatched gaining my crew some increase in fighter ratings. I used magic only as a last resort fighting with swords instead. As a note, I used the KU sword called Biter which is cursed, yet which worked well against mummies.
However, once done with these mummies, I found a stair leading up to the ever present Oitus (those crab like things) – a room full of them. Somehow I lost coordination and ended up tossing a mon fireball at a wall I was facing (as I did a dodge I suppose) resulting in a friendly fire death.
I’m a bit at a loss here in KU. I can’t see how I may be able to prevail against the flying vacuum cleaners and skull knights or a room full of Oitus’. As a note, I had full mana and threw enough mon fireballs at the skull knight to utterly deplete my two guys before it got me. I have no idea if this thing can be killed. Last go, with my last team, I found a dragon which I followed around throwing fireballs at and hitting with weapons until my hand got tired of pressing the keys. I can’t believe that in either case, I didn’t hit each monster with 255 hp yet they didn’t fall.
I have no idea the logic of this game as far as balance. I suppose I’ll try again later, but for now, I’m a bit fatigued and again mildly discouraged.
How goes it for you? –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
I’m trying again finally having a few hours in which to do so. I find that I’m doing much better than before due to the hints given here on this forum. I still am unsure that I’m doing well. I did manage to get all I wished to get from the quick supplies room even surviving with an extra iron key. My confidence rose, if not soared, with my finishing the worm room, getting some needed supplies there and then the flask which I so desperately needed before. Feeling somewhat armed, I went off to start the game in earnest. I still am feeling a bit hassled at the constant supply of monsters. I can find few safe places to think and regroup. For example, some sort of flying eye kept bugging me in quick supplies. They seemed to re-gen there as others do throughout the game (or it seemed to me).
I saved and then went off to try a ‘way’. I did snap to the fact that you can spin around at this junction to find other ways. Before it seemed somewhat random to me. Oh, my team is Buzzz and Petal.
I tried KU as my starter finding it very difficult. In fact, I failed. My first foray resulted in my being cornered by a skull knight. My second got me cornered between a midget wizard and some red flying vacuum cleaners. Now I know these are not the right names, but that’s what they looked like to me. My third try at KU resulted in a different layout leading me to a place full of mummies. They were easily dispatched gaining my crew some increase in fighter ratings. I used magic only as a last resort fighting with swords instead. As a note, I used the KU sword called Biter which is cursed, yet which worked well against mummies.
However, once done with these mummies, I found a stair leading up to the ever present Oitus (those crab like things) – a room full of them. Somehow I lost coordination and ended up tossing a mon fireball at a wall I was facing (as I did a dodge I suppose) resulting in a friendly fire death.
I’m a bit at a loss here in KU. I can’t see how I may be able to prevail against the flying vacuum cleaners and skull knights or a room full of Oitus’. As a note, I had full mana and threw enough mon fireballs at the skull knight to utterly deplete my two guys before it got me. I have no idea if this thing can be killed. Last go, with my last team, I found a dragon which I followed around throwing fireballs at and hitting with weapons until my hand got tired of pressing the keys. I can’t believe that in either case, I didn’t hit each monster with 255 hp yet they didn’t fall.
I have no idea the logic of this game as far as balance. I suppose I’ll try again later, but for now, I’m a bit fatigued and again mildly discouraged.
How goes it for you? –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
-
Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
You are doing very well. You understand that you are
developing your human skills as a player as well as
the skills of the Champions you control. One of the most
important skills is to know your way around and where
it is possible to go before your champions are fully developed.
In my view, one of the things that is most valuable is to
determine the locations of the pressure pads that trigger
the monster generators. Without cheating and looking at the
maps others have drawn, this is a very difficult task. But
slowly you sort of learn where you can go safely, even if
you do not know their exact locations.
WARNING*****
SPOILER*****
Your Red Vacuum Cleaners are Munchers, I believe. They are
terrible creatures until you learn they are susceptible to poison.
The four entrances to the large room with Munchers have
generator triggers. Well, sorta.
developing your human skills as a player as well as
the skills of the Champions you control. One of the most
important skills is to know your way around and where
it is possible to go before your champions are fully developed.
In my view, one of the things that is most valuable is to
determine the locations of the pressure pads that trigger
the monster generators. Without cheating and looking at the
maps others have drawn, this is a very difficult task. But
slowly you sort of learn where you can go safely, even if
you do not know their exact locations.
WARNING*****
SPOILER*****
Your Red Vacuum Cleaners are Munchers, I believe. They are
terrible creatures until you learn they are susceptible to poison.
The four entrances to the large room with Munchers have
generator triggers. Well, sorta.
-
sucinum
- Pal Master
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2001 1:00 am
- Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
- Contact:
reminds me a bit of my first csb-experiences
i have grown up with dungeon master, i played it since i was 6 or 7 years old (not even knowing english...) and got csb the day it was released. i didn't complete dm too often so far, i monstly played until the level with the knights/faders and quit there (can't say why, maybe i was afraid). but after some games, i arrived there without having one character beeing killed (only saving when i went off the computer) and evolved over time. surely i later did the finish a few times, but didn't find ich too exciting with "finished" chars, meaning experts.
before playing csb, i played through dm of course with a party i thought to be the most versatile:
hissssa, sonya, chani and wuuf.
i trained them all in all 4 disciplines and got about 450 health altogether.
i was prepared.
...
i thought i was.
the worms were piece of cake and i was supplied at least with some weapons and food until i went off iron keys. i even killed some oitus...
but after starting the ku-way, i knew, this will get REALLY hard.
i tried all the 4 ways and found the neta-way to be the easiest one. i even got the corbum - in ONLY a few months. i can't say, how often i reloaded or died.
i was warned by some computer-magazines: "dm is a playground compared to csb" - "csb has more than 10 dragons" - "don't expect food, water or things as flasks" - "only for real dm-masters"
they all were right.
to make it short, it took me about 2 years to finish the game and i could only do it, because my mother played it, too, "only" taking a few weeks and could help me a bit.
i never had maps and got confused very often, more often than i got killed.
i never played such a hard game again, yet balanced and motivating to complete it...
and after creating 4 dungeons with dmute+tools, i still can only bow to the very well done craft. csb has tons of pads and buttons and stuff i will never understand (and i teleport apples around to get half the effect - lol).
csb is a masterpiece of a game, in terms of balancing (HARD, but doable), atmosphere, craft and fun.
ok, back to you
since you have found the junction so far, i would suggest doing the neta-way first.
csb has 4 ways, which are connected some times (which distracts very much as you don't know it - as a rule: never follow a path with is opened by a skeletton key) and in each of them you will find a key. all the 4 paths lead to the DDD (you will recognize) where you have to use the key to access the second part of each way.
there are 2 strategies which both work fine:
collect all the 4 keys and then proceed after the DDD or do one way after each other. i prefer the 1st strategie, because then you get more overview over the dungeon - you did 4 half ways and so know about (or even a bit more than) one half of the dungeon. this makes you feel sure to go on. others prefer to head directly for the corbums.
no matter, which strategie you use, i would suggest following order:
neta->ros->ku->dain
ku is the hardest one with many dragons and knights in it, but you find the best equipment there (like the hardcleave). i dain, you have to take the one or other fireball, so i always finish it as the last one.
and some advice about the knights:
they are mostly immune to magic. they are hurt best with berzerk (hardcleave, dragon fang) or the diamond edge (jab is just fine). if you don't have both, try punching. toe to toe is ok in csb, walking around might generate more monsters...
i have grown up with dungeon master, i played it since i was 6 or 7 years old (not even knowing english...) and got csb the day it was released. i didn't complete dm too often so far, i monstly played until the level with the knights/faders and quit there (can't say why, maybe i was afraid). but after some games, i arrived there without having one character beeing killed (only saving when i went off the computer) and evolved over time. surely i later did the finish a few times, but didn't find ich too exciting with "finished" chars, meaning experts.
before playing csb, i played through dm of course with a party i thought to be the most versatile:
hissssa, sonya, chani and wuuf.
i trained them all in all 4 disciplines and got about 450 health altogether.
i was prepared.
...
i thought i was.
the worms were piece of cake and i was supplied at least with some weapons and food until i went off iron keys. i even killed some oitus...
but after starting the ku-way, i knew, this will get REALLY hard.
i tried all the 4 ways and found the neta-way to be the easiest one. i even got the corbum - in ONLY a few months. i can't say, how often i reloaded or died.
i was warned by some computer-magazines: "dm is a playground compared to csb" - "csb has more than 10 dragons" - "don't expect food, water or things as flasks" - "only for real dm-masters"
they all were right.
to make it short, it took me about 2 years to finish the game and i could only do it, because my mother played it, too, "only" taking a few weeks and could help me a bit.
i never had maps and got confused very often, more often than i got killed.
i never played such a hard game again, yet balanced and motivating to complete it...
and after creating 4 dungeons with dmute+tools, i still can only bow to the very well done craft. csb has tons of pads and buttons and stuff i will never understand (and i teleport apples around to get half the effect - lol).
csb is a masterpiece of a game, in terms of balancing (HARD, but doable), atmosphere, craft and fun.
ok, back to you
since you have found the junction so far, i would suggest doing the neta-way first.
csb has 4 ways, which are connected some times (which distracts very much as you don't know it - as a rule: never follow a path with is opened by a skeletton key) and in each of them you will find a key. all the 4 paths lead to the DDD (you will recognize) where you have to use the key to access the second part of each way.
there are 2 strategies which both work fine:
collect all the 4 keys and then proceed after the DDD or do one way after each other. i prefer the 1st strategie, because then you get more overview over the dungeon - you did 4 half ways and so know about (or even a bit more than) one half of the dungeon. this makes you feel sure to go on. others prefer to head directly for the corbums.
no matter, which strategie you use, i would suggest following order:
neta->ros->ku->dain
ku is the hardest one with many dragons and knights in it, but you find the best equipment there (like the hardcleave). i dain, you have to take the one or other fireball, so i always finish it as the last one.
and some advice about the knights:
they are mostly immune to magic. they are hurt best with berzerk (hardcleave, dragon fang) or the diamond edge (jab is just fine). if you don't have both, try punching. toe to toe is ok in csb, walking around might generate more monsters...
Hi Slide,
I am still trying to do dain. I took a different path as opposed to doing those oitus crossroads and ended up in a room full of water elementals oozing all over the place - after finding my way through blue screens. I fell down the laughing pit and am still trying to get past it. When I fell it took me to the damn oitus crossroad again so I am trying to do that again before returning to the laughing pit. I lo zoed a gate and somehow they keep regenerating. i am still thinking about the puzzle and I hope there is water nearby. The elementals are doable, with the vorpalblade and spells. You seem to be doing well, better than I.
Its great to follow your progress. Loved the bit about the flying vacuum cleaners. I am not using maps or hints except what is here so its a real challenge. Exhausting, and haunting. Oitus need a load of mon poison spells to kill them I might add.
Its good to read other's experiences here and wish my partner would give it a try - he thinks its childish compared to Age of Mythology - hah! if only he knew.
To to toe? I know thats a clue but hmmmm....
Got to go away on business a few days...look forward to more reading here then.
I am still trying to do dain. I took a different path as opposed to doing those oitus crossroads and ended up in a room full of water elementals oozing all over the place - after finding my way through blue screens. I fell down the laughing pit and am still trying to get past it. When I fell it took me to the damn oitus crossroad again so I am trying to do that again before returning to the laughing pit. I lo zoed a gate and somehow they keep regenerating. i am still thinking about the puzzle and I hope there is water nearby. The elementals are doable, with the vorpalblade and spells. You seem to be doing well, better than I.
Its great to follow your progress. Loved the bit about the flying vacuum cleaners. I am not using maps or hints except what is here so its a real challenge. Exhausting, and haunting. Oitus need a load of mon poison spells to kill them I might add.
Its good to read other's experiences here and wish my partner would give it a try - he thinks its childish compared to Age of Mythology - hah! if only he knew.
To to toe? I know thats a clue but hmmmm....
Got to go away on business a few days...look forward to more reading here then.
lol, toe to toe = DON'T MOVE!
Basically, when you move you create oitus...so block all the entrances and clean the mess you made, then move
I find dain the worst I leave it last too, i would very strongly recommend neta too - as long as you expolore a little, realise where triggers are, and don't hack at everythign you find, neta part one os easy
the three random starts are easy to link up, and basically i tried it last night for fun and got five flasks by the end of it
munchers - yes, fast annoying buggers...but usually low health - lowest fireball tends to dispatch them, but like wasps in dm hand to hand fighting is painful with them
Basically, when you move you create oitus...so block all the entrances and clean the mess you made, then move
I find dain the worst I leave it last too, i would very strongly recommend neta too - as long as you expolore a little, realise where triggers are, and don't hack at everythign you find, neta part one os easy
the three random starts are easy to link up, and basically i tried it last night for fun and got five flasks by the end of it
munchers - yes, fast annoying buggers...but usually low health - lowest fireball tends to dispatch them, but like wasps in dm hand to hand fighting is painful with them
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Denise, Paul, Sucinum and others reading this thread,
As you’ve surmised, I’m willing to take a few hints, but bridle at the idea of just using a walk through or even relying on those available maps. Based on Sucinum’s suggestion of Way order, and the note that some opponents in KU require a good fighter, I may return to my quick supplies save game and then move to NETA. My J grade fighter twosome can’t use a good sword even if we found one. So I suppose I need to build that up in my abilities.
The overarching problem I find in this game is it’s (to me still) resemblance to a twitch or arcade game. I’m a slow contemplative fellow who fit well into the DM pattern of fight, rest, explore the now cleaned out area. Fighting / dancing s series of monsters makes for a fine time it interspersed among the exploration, but not as a constant diet.
Folks here talk about pressure plates which are very small or other triggers none of which I can find because I’m either on the run or busy fighting. The comment that standing toe to toe in CSB is all right because movement only generates other monsters is, to me, an ominous comment. At this point, I can’t stand toe to toe with the weakest monster I am finding. So it’s either hit and run or run and generate more which means more fighting and never the rest / explore stage I have been hoping for. To give you an idea, my idea of a fine game was Myst. My idea of a waste of time was Doom. I spent hours in Myst and didn’t even buy Doom after trying it.
OTOH, folks do mention that doing the game like me, basically exploring on my own with some help from posters, is a weeks or months long proposition so I’m not all that concerned that I’m behind the times. Then again, if this is the competition on what would be in DM L2 or L3, I can’t imagine what I’ll encounter when I hit the real troubles later on. All seems to be made much worse by the lack of food and water. I found nothing to eat or drink after I left the Junction which again militates against my desire to slowly explore a cleaned out area. My first try through with my first party resulted in my being defeated as much by hunger / thirst / accrued injuries than the specific fights.
I will say that having that single flask has made for a much easier time of it. That single thing changes the game from laughably impossible to very likely impossible – a huge improvement.
Denise, since we’re both having problems with Oitus (very Curious name that) what I suggest we do is change tactics. Trying the same thing over and over expecting different results surely is futile. If they can be killed with some dispatch, we’ll need different weapons than ful balls or lightning strokes. I suggest we experiment with the poison range either cloud or bolt. My team can only take about two hits per PC against these fellows so standing toe to toe can’t possibly work.
The idea of standing toe to toe with a skull knight kicking him as he does his double sword whack is so unlikely to succeed given my troop’s abilities that it brought a nice smile to me. I think I’d have as much success hunting tigers with a teaspoon.
I may be able to get back in the ring for another swing today. If so, I’ll post my results. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
As you’ve surmised, I’m willing to take a few hints, but bridle at the idea of just using a walk through or even relying on those available maps. Based on Sucinum’s suggestion of Way order, and the note that some opponents in KU require a good fighter, I may return to my quick supplies save game and then move to NETA. My J grade fighter twosome can’t use a good sword even if we found one. So I suppose I need to build that up in my abilities.
The overarching problem I find in this game is it’s (to me still) resemblance to a twitch or arcade game. I’m a slow contemplative fellow who fit well into the DM pattern of fight, rest, explore the now cleaned out area. Fighting / dancing s series of monsters makes for a fine time it interspersed among the exploration, but not as a constant diet.
Folks here talk about pressure plates which are very small or other triggers none of which I can find because I’m either on the run or busy fighting. The comment that standing toe to toe in CSB is all right because movement only generates other monsters is, to me, an ominous comment. At this point, I can’t stand toe to toe with the weakest monster I am finding. So it’s either hit and run or run and generate more which means more fighting and never the rest / explore stage I have been hoping for. To give you an idea, my idea of a fine game was Myst. My idea of a waste of time was Doom. I spent hours in Myst and didn’t even buy Doom after trying it.
OTOH, folks do mention that doing the game like me, basically exploring on my own with some help from posters, is a weeks or months long proposition so I’m not all that concerned that I’m behind the times. Then again, if this is the competition on what would be in DM L2 or L3, I can’t imagine what I’ll encounter when I hit the real troubles later on. All seems to be made much worse by the lack of food and water. I found nothing to eat or drink after I left the Junction which again militates against my desire to slowly explore a cleaned out area. My first try through with my first party resulted in my being defeated as much by hunger / thirst / accrued injuries than the specific fights.
I will say that having that single flask has made for a much easier time of it. That single thing changes the game from laughably impossible to very likely impossible – a huge improvement.
Denise, since we’re both having problems with Oitus (very Curious name that) what I suggest we do is change tactics. Trying the same thing over and over expecting different results surely is futile. If they can be killed with some dispatch, we’ll need different weapons than ful balls or lightning strokes. I suggest we experiment with the poison range either cloud or bolt. My team can only take about two hits per PC against these fellows so standing toe to toe can’t possibly work.
The idea of standing toe to toe with a skull knight kicking him as he does his double sword whack is so unlikely to succeed given my troop’s abilities that it brought a nice smile to me. I think I’d have as much success hunting tigers with a teaspoon.
I may be able to get back in the ring for another swing today. If so, I’ll post my results. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
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Paul Stevens
- CSBwin Guru
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 6:00 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Again, what I did when I waas new to the game was go
north from the junction, work down to the worm generation
room and fight worms. Plenty of space to fight without
creating new worms. Then go back to Safe Haven for water
and munch on the Worm Rounds. You can do this forever.
I did it almost forever until I built up all my skills.
I kicked dozens of worms to death. You can clean the area
and rest. Create one more worm and fight. Rest. Over and
over again.
north from the junction, work down to the worm generation
room and fight worms. Plenty of space to fight without
creating new worms. Then go back to Safe Haven for water
and munch on the Worm Rounds. You can do this forever.
I did it almost forever until I built up all my skills.
I kicked dozens of worms to death. You can clean the area
and rest. Create one more worm and fight. Rest. Over and
over again.
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
The exact method one would use to fight worms and get water as a practice set isn’t utterly clear to me, but I’ll take Paul’s word for it that it can be done without much research. I can see how one may do it as long as one spends one iron key for every water refresh. Even given the expenditure of a key for each ‘round’, I can see that the practice can keep up for a good long time.
I chose not to pursue this path simply because the prospect seemed tedious. I’ll also take the probable need for initial practice and the recommendation thereof as a tacit agreement with me that this game isn’t balanced at nearly the same level as DM. Whilst one could practice his PC’s in DM, it was hardly a recommendation we in the Atariarts forum (in CompuServe) made to newbies at DM. Mostly I used the practice rooms in DM as a way to extend my play. After fusion, there was little more to do other than play more efficiently, find what you’d missed before, or see how high you could get your PC(s). I also would enjoy developing chars outside of their initial settings such as getting Wuuf or Tiggy as fighting masters or HIsssa as master wizard. The entire concept of speed games, some of which are quite impressive here, either didn’t exist or I’d not heard of them back in those days. I’m unsure if I’d be willing to spend days upon days practicing my chars just to be able to play this game normally. I leave it to game designers to balance the games so that reasonably competent folks can play them w/o investing days in a re-balance. Much of the testing I have done on games in the past is to determine balance points.
Again to return to my original comments when seeing this game, I thnk the PC's need a boost or the monsters a nerf. Demanding that players spend hours or days creating PC"s which should be available from the go point seems rather taxing to me.
Per an earlier recommendation, I did take my team to NETA finding the ever present Oitus yet again. Still, this time I was armed with a theory (poison) and a door with which to hit them. So I managed to clear out a room full of those screaming plants and roughly a half dozen Oitus simply because they were unable to get around me and I could use the door as a weapon or as a pause device.
From there I stepped lively keeping in mind that a pause would only generate more monsters. Having munchers (?) ahead and Oitus’ behind wasn’t an attractive prospect which is why the fast stepped. I also recovered some lock picks, but have not seen their utility. I quickly recovered a key (I think turquoise) then made my way up to a place called the Demon Director. Here I have a door on the level below the DD which won’t respond to the special key or the lock picks. Up at the DD, I find those flambé dishes, some rock piles and what appears to be angry flame throwing monkeys. Unsure how to proceed, I did the drop down and climb up routine which is becoming so common in this game to find myself on the other side of the DD facing a golem and a door marked KU.
Going down some stairs near this place, I find a room with a large dragon. Figuring one thing at a time, I dispatched the golem then returned to the dragon when I found myself unable to make an entrance to KU. I am supposing now that the turquoise key is useless as are the lock picks (red herrings?).
I found no way to remove the dragon from the game. I hit it with fireballs, and then restored the game to try poison. Finally, finding neither worked on the golem either, I whacked it with my weapons until I grew once again fatigued. Are there monsters in this game which heal or which can’t be killed so which must be run around? I did lure the dragon into a small room down a hall where I could have sealed him in whilst I returned to his original location to explore, but found that an unsatisfying resolution to the kill dragon mystery. Also I figured the pattern to this game was that there would only be dozens more dragons in the original room so I must learn how to deal with them some time.
I’m again a bit discouraged and mystified. Clearly I skipped by a needed key or other device in my run to the DD area as even if I defeat all there, I’m trapped. Yet if I linger, I only generate monsters making it impossible for me to proceed lacking as I would, food and water. So I can neither run through or linger leaving a mystery third possibility (rush slowly?). Perhaps the answer lay beyond the flambé dish yet all my des ew’s and vorpaling didn’t seem to dampen it so I figured that that room must be approached from another route.
I never considered myself a master at DM, but did consider myself a competent player. This game has put paid to that concept. Well, I did enjoy the game this morning right up to the immortal dragon. I will surely give it another go soon, but wish I had a better feel for this thing.
I chose not to pursue this path simply because the prospect seemed tedious. I’ll also take the probable need for initial practice and the recommendation thereof as a tacit agreement with me that this game isn’t balanced at nearly the same level as DM. Whilst one could practice his PC’s in DM, it was hardly a recommendation we in the Atariarts forum (in CompuServe) made to newbies at DM. Mostly I used the practice rooms in DM as a way to extend my play. After fusion, there was little more to do other than play more efficiently, find what you’d missed before, or see how high you could get your PC(s). I also would enjoy developing chars outside of their initial settings such as getting Wuuf or Tiggy as fighting masters or HIsssa as master wizard. The entire concept of speed games, some of which are quite impressive here, either didn’t exist or I’d not heard of them back in those days. I’m unsure if I’d be willing to spend days upon days practicing my chars just to be able to play this game normally. I leave it to game designers to balance the games so that reasonably competent folks can play them w/o investing days in a re-balance. Much of the testing I have done on games in the past is to determine balance points.
Again to return to my original comments when seeing this game, I thnk the PC's need a boost or the monsters a nerf. Demanding that players spend hours or days creating PC"s which should be available from the go point seems rather taxing to me.
Per an earlier recommendation, I did take my team to NETA finding the ever present Oitus yet again. Still, this time I was armed with a theory (poison) and a door with which to hit them. So I managed to clear out a room full of those screaming plants and roughly a half dozen Oitus simply because they were unable to get around me and I could use the door as a weapon or as a pause device.
From there I stepped lively keeping in mind that a pause would only generate more monsters. Having munchers (?) ahead and Oitus’ behind wasn’t an attractive prospect which is why the fast stepped. I also recovered some lock picks, but have not seen their utility. I quickly recovered a key (I think turquoise) then made my way up to a place called the Demon Director. Here I have a door on the level below the DD which won’t respond to the special key or the lock picks. Up at the DD, I find those flambé dishes, some rock piles and what appears to be angry flame throwing monkeys. Unsure how to proceed, I did the drop down and climb up routine which is becoming so common in this game to find myself on the other side of the DD facing a golem and a door marked KU.
Going down some stairs near this place, I find a room with a large dragon. Figuring one thing at a time, I dispatched the golem then returned to the dragon when I found myself unable to make an entrance to KU. I am supposing now that the turquoise key is useless as are the lock picks (red herrings?).
I found no way to remove the dragon from the game. I hit it with fireballs, and then restored the game to try poison. Finally, finding neither worked on the golem either, I whacked it with my weapons until I grew once again fatigued. Are there monsters in this game which heal or which can’t be killed so which must be run around? I did lure the dragon into a small room down a hall where I could have sealed him in whilst I returned to his original location to explore, but found that an unsatisfying resolution to the kill dragon mystery. Also I figured the pattern to this game was that there would only be dozens more dragons in the original room so I must learn how to deal with them some time.
I’m again a bit discouraged and mystified. Clearly I skipped by a needed key or other device in my run to the DD area as even if I defeat all there, I’m trapped. Yet if I linger, I only generate monsters making it impossible for me to proceed lacking as I would, food and water. So I can neither run through or linger leaving a mystery third possibility (rush slowly?). Perhaps the answer lay beyond the flambé dish yet all my des ew’s and vorpaling didn’t seem to dampen it so I figured that that room must be approached from another route.
I never considered myself a master at DM, but did consider myself a competent player. This game has put paid to that concept. Well, I did enjoy the game this morning right up to the immortal dragon. I will surely give it another go soon, but wish I had a better feel for this thing.
As to needing a super party, there are four characetr slots, and you are new to the game - why take two? : )
Apart from food considerations why limit your magical heft and even health in combat by cycling fighters?
I'm surprised no one has mentioend the hint oracle, available before you start the game. It's almost mandatory if the game is making you this miserable playing it! You will find many valuable hints on the area you are at. With csb4win you can have two versions open for less distraction during play to view it under an active game : )
There is water available not just at the start, you should have found one on the neta path. There are other water areas easier to get to and from.
Try neta again. Try not to kill a screamer...did oitus appear? Neta is the priest path. You find ways not of combat will are rewarded sometimes on it. Of course, other times you need preist levels for the anti-poison! In the oitu room without their threat, explore and you may find a dead end path that yields another potion.
The muncher part is annoying, but again, try stop. Move. Stop. In that room with the pit, you will find a muncher only 'flies' up from the pit when you move. Fireball. Step. And only in this area. The rest around is fine (if boring and yieldign in gigglers!)
As cucinum said - you do the first part of each path for a special key. You then need to find the right keyhole, via the DDD, to enter the second part of the path, and earn a corbum. You may find it best to find the special key rather than attenpt the DDD each time. And yes, the dragon under the DDD is the most powerful but by no means unkillable. Just not worth taking on. If you find yourself dumped down there, you know you triggered a pit you shoudn't have! Run away!
Alot of this game is learnign the dungeon. It is possible to bring a wildlly inflated party in to the dungeon, so the designers made it so that tactics and, funnily, cautious exploration were rewarded more than simply blowing things away and running in. Flasks are scarce because once you have alot of flasks you can heal yourself very easily.
Anyway, take heart! Part of it is learning the dungeon. Once you learn it, start looping back through secret ways to the start or other areas, and get used to how paths connect (very disorienting) half the battle, but also half the fun, is over!
Apart from food considerations why limit your magical heft and even health in combat by cycling fighters?
I'm surprised no one has mentioend the hint oracle, available before you start the game. It's almost mandatory if the game is making you this miserable playing it! You will find many valuable hints on the area you are at. With csb4win you can have two versions open for less distraction during play to view it under an active game : )
There is water available not just at the start, you should have found one on the neta path. There are other water areas easier to get to and from.
Try neta again. Try not to kill a screamer...did oitus appear? Neta is the priest path. You find ways not of combat will are rewarded sometimes on it. Of course, other times you need preist levels for the anti-poison! In the oitu room without their threat, explore and you may find a dead end path that yields another potion.
The muncher part is annoying, but again, try stop. Move. Stop. In that room with the pit, you will find a muncher only 'flies' up from the pit when you move. Fireball. Step. And only in this area. The rest around is fine (if boring and yieldign in gigglers!)
As cucinum said - you do the first part of each path for a special key. You then need to find the right keyhole, via the DDD, to enter the second part of the path, and earn a corbum. You may find it best to find the special key rather than attenpt the DDD each time. And yes, the dragon under the DDD is the most powerful but by no means unkillable. Just not worth taking on. If you find yourself dumped down there, you know you triggered a pit you shoudn't have! Run away!
Alot of this game is learnign the dungeon. It is possible to bring a wildlly inflated party in to the dungeon, so the designers made it so that tactics and, funnily, cautious exploration were rewarded more than simply blowing things away and running in. Flasks are scarce because once you have alot of flasks you can heal yourself very easily.
Anyway, take heart! Part of it is learning the dungeon. Once you learn it, start looping back through secret ways to the start or other areas, and get used to how paths connect (very disorienting) half the battle, but also half the fun, is over!
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I am using a party of two based on other recommendations. Using the party of four as before, I regularly got one guy injured slowing down the entire group. That isn’t nearly the problem with two. Also the issue with food and water is severe even with this one.
I probably could have strolled through the screamer room without killing any. Surely, reflecting backward, I could have, but figured I needed the food. I had almost none. And yes, I do remember one water place in NETA, but also have no idea the extent of what I was facing. So I figured to stock up. I still do not know how long NETA is being stuck at the base of the DD.
In my other tries, I got either one or two keys of B at the start. Here in NETA I got none which I found somewhat mysterious, but also not knowing if that was important, I didn’t worry about it. I take it that this key is required to open the door right below the DD (whatever that is).
As to the super dragon, I did fall through something by intent to get to the other side of a room otherwise impassable. I don’t understand how this dragon can take more than 255 hp but it must have. The golem seemed to take more too. I even tried whacking the dragon with the golem’s club figuring it may be a puzzle, but that did no good that I could tell.
In all, I seem to be getting some conflicting advice here. Beowuuf talks about careful exploration whilst others imply I must keep moving due to monster regeneration. Aside from the super dragon below the DD and the flambé dish at the DD, none of the monsters in NETA gave me more than I could handle and that includes the oitus.
As to the designers balancing for a super party coming in, I would have suggested (had I been a tester) that they design a nerf into the super parties or forbid them rather that demanding we spend much time boosting. Or the game designers could have started all with a party at super level.
I may try again before tomorrow. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
I probably could have strolled through the screamer room without killing any. Surely, reflecting backward, I could have, but figured I needed the food. I had almost none. And yes, I do remember one water place in NETA, but also have no idea the extent of what I was facing. So I figured to stock up. I still do not know how long NETA is being stuck at the base of the DD.
In my other tries, I got either one or two keys of B at the start. Here in NETA I got none which I found somewhat mysterious, but also not knowing if that was important, I didn’t worry about it. I take it that this key is required to open the door right below the DD (whatever that is).
As to the super dragon, I did fall through something by intent to get to the other side of a room otherwise impassable. I don’t understand how this dragon can take more than 255 hp but it must have. The golem seemed to take more too. I even tried whacking the dragon with the golem’s club figuring it may be a puzzle, but that did no good that I could tell.
In all, I seem to be getting some conflicting advice here. Beowuuf talks about careful exploration whilst others imply I must keep moving due to monster regeneration. Aside from the super dragon below the DD and the flambé dish at the DD, none of the monsters in NETA gave me more than I could handle and that includes the oitus.
As to the designers balancing for a super party coming in, I would have suggested (had I been a tester) that they design a nerf into the super parties or forbid them rather that demanding we spend much time boosting. Or the game designers could have started all with a party at super level.
I may try again before tomorrow. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Don't know where 255hp comes from...the original dragon in DM had 1500hp...this overfed monster has 3000hp..the others are nowhere near as bad : )
Yes, golems tend to be just over the 255hp too, depending...as with DM, just by then in DM you would have been able to berserk them
In KU, there are monster floods. There caution will not aviail, but then again it is the fighter path!
For other areas i would recommend in impossible floods limiting movement...take other's advice over mine though, i came to csb late (RTC, etc)
Yes, golems tend to be just over the 255hp too, depending...as with DM, just by then in DM you would have been able to berserk them
In KU, there are monster floods. There caution will not aviail, but then again it is the fighter path!
For other areas i would recommend in impossible floods limiting movement...take other's advice over mine though, i came to csb late (RTC, etc)
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
I thought, and I don't know where I got it, that the max hp was 255 for a monster. I sure don't remember a monster in DM that had over that. Based on a dragon having 3.000 hp, and me getting credit for about 1-15 hp a sword whack, they may as well be immortal.
I did restart NETA, but with no particular difference I can see. I didn't start the same as last time, but got transported to a dead end (pray for a miracle) and now am past the oitus to the muncher room. I generated the oitus intentionally to supply up with screamer parts for a longer haul this time.
I have enormous admiration for anybody who can map this place. It's beyond me to just know where I am.
I did restart NETA, but with no particular difference I can see. I didn't start the same as last time, but got transported to a dead end (pray for a miracle) and now am past the oitus to the muncher room. I generated the oitus intentionally to supply up with screamer parts for a longer haul this time.
I have enormous admiration for anybody who can map this place. It's beyond me to just know where I am.
you can lure the screamers out of the room...their oitu shepherds don't see what happens to them then : )
and no, you really don't want to be whacking a dragon without a berserk option, or some back up mon poison clouds. That said it's not impossible with weaker dragons
DM i got it wrong, the original dragon had 2700hp! demons were about 750 - 950, the end oitus in the coward room were 400, and water elementals were about 600, and golems were about 350 - 400 - so there you go, i guess the linear nature and non-regen made those monsters seem less tough!
worst thing abotu mappign is that you drop down a pit, etc and end up in an entirely new section, plus each path does have three starts...very disorienting to start with
and no, you really don't want to be whacking a dragon without a berserk option, or some back up mon poison clouds. That said it's not impossible with weaker dragons
DM i got it wrong, the original dragon had 2700hp! demons were about 750 - 950, the end oitus in the coward room were 400, and water elementals were about 600, and golems were about 350 - 400 - so there you go, i guess the linear nature and non-regen made those monsters seem less tough!
worst thing abotu mappign is that you drop down a pit, etc and end up in an entirely new section, plus each path does have three starts...very disorienting to start with
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
OTOH, I wanted the practice fighting the oitus in the screamer room. I have no idea what this dungeon is like so I need to be strong enough to explore. I can’t run through as others have done because I don’t know where I’m running to or why I’d run there.
I find this game interesting to play even if I’m not on a win track. I had the OEM manual in DM so I knew I was headed to a certain level to fuse LC, but here the goal seems somewhat vague to me at this point. I figure I’ll continue to explore just enjoying the ingenuity of the game designer’s plan and the fact of discovery.
I re-ran NETA again from a save game that was at the junction. This time through I failed to find the lock picks so I suppose this game randomly seeds at least some material. I don’t think DM did. I’m unsure about RTC and some others. Anyway, I again found myself at the DDD unable to open the door at the base of the DDD (down one flight) again. This time I recovered another key from the room with all the flame things, went upstairs convinced that I had at least one key that would open something somewhere. Neither of the jeweled keys opened the upstairs door (upstairs from the DDD – I have no idea what level I’m on here). Somehow with some key used someplace or maybe some other way, I found my way back to the supplies for the quick!
So I conclude this is a circular dungeon, but not a two dimensional circle. That is the circle(s) are laid upon the Y axis and we navigate the Y axis along four or more circles very likely isolated from each other as they cross various X axis levels. The action takes place on the X planes but much transport takes place on the Y. I don’t remember that concept in any previous game.
It may be that we can cross to other Y routes later on by opening horizontal routes or maybe we can now if I could find the way. Also I’d need to identify the various Y routes. I could be transported to KU from NETA and not know it since I don’t know KU. AFAIK, there are two or maybe three NETA variants. They all seem to lead to the same ‘payoff’ areas such as the room where I recovered the NETA staff and other rooms where I found keys of mystery utility.
My team is now strong enough to have a 100% success in mon poison clouds so I guess I may try a dragon if I see one. Where did you, Beowuuf get those monster hp ratings? I had things awfully wrong it seems.
I find this game interesting to play even if I’m not on a win track. I had the OEM manual in DM so I knew I was headed to a certain level to fuse LC, but here the goal seems somewhat vague to me at this point. I figure I’ll continue to explore just enjoying the ingenuity of the game designer’s plan and the fact of discovery.
I re-ran NETA again from a save game that was at the junction. This time through I failed to find the lock picks so I suppose this game randomly seeds at least some material. I don’t think DM did. I’m unsure about RTC and some others. Anyway, I again found myself at the DDD unable to open the door at the base of the DDD (down one flight) again. This time I recovered another key from the room with all the flame things, went upstairs convinced that I had at least one key that would open something somewhere. Neither of the jeweled keys opened the upstairs door (upstairs from the DDD – I have no idea what level I’m on here). Somehow with some key used someplace or maybe some other way, I found my way back to the supplies for the quick!
So I conclude this is a circular dungeon, but not a two dimensional circle. That is the circle(s) are laid upon the Y axis and we navigate the Y axis along four or more circles very likely isolated from each other as they cross various X axis levels. The action takes place on the X planes but much transport takes place on the Y. I don’t remember that concept in any previous game.
It may be that we can cross to other Y routes later on by opening horizontal routes or maybe we can now if I could find the way. Also I’d need to identify the various Y routes. I could be transported to KU from NETA and not know it since I don’t know KU. AFAIK, there are two or maybe three NETA variants. They all seem to lead to the same ‘payoff’ areas such as the room where I recovered the NETA staff and other rooms where I found keys of mystery utility.
My team is now strong enough to have a 100% success in mon poison clouds so I guess I may try a dragon if I see one. Where did you, Beowuuf get those monster hp ratings? I had things awfully wrong it seems.
Slide, why don't you play fully through DM first and then import your powerful DM-party to CSB? A party you got used to, a party which has fighting skill and spells would serve you well I think.
If you think the goal of CSB is "vague", read my earlier post, I described the core goal there very clearly. Or better, take a few minutes and read the walkthrough at the encyclopaedia (see quick links above), and use the darn maps! For you say, you don't make out the monster generator triggers. They are all identified there including their triggers (Of course there are many players, who don't want to use them because they want the full challenge - but if you choose so, you chose the hard way willingly).
As for conflicting advice: Of course there is conflict in oppinion, because everyone of us has a different style of play, different tactics & strategy, different preferences on character selection or even the number of characters. I you want to know, I prefer 4 characters, 2 front-fighters like Hissssa and Halk, and 2 Magic-Users (and partly ninja) like Wuuf and Tiggy, I play them through DM first, then enter CSB, play each path fully in the order Dain-Neta-Ros-Ku, and I explore every corner of the dungeon, loot all treasure, kill all monsters (and avoid triggering generators as far as it is possible), but I am aware that there are other styles of play which are also very efficient, even if they follow a totally different approach than what I found to suite me best.
If you think the goal of CSB is "vague", read my earlier post, I described the core goal there very clearly. Or better, take a few minutes and read the walkthrough at the encyclopaedia (see quick links above), and use the darn maps! For you say, you don't make out the monster generator triggers. They are all identified there including their triggers (Of course there are many players, who don't want to use them because they want the full challenge - but if you choose so, you chose the hard way willingly).
As for conflicting advice: Of course there is conflict in oppinion, because everyone of us has a different style of play, different tactics & strategy, different preferences on character selection or even the number of characters. I you want to know, I prefer 4 characters, 2 front-fighters like Hissssa and Halk, and 2 Magic-Users (and partly ninja) like Wuuf and Tiggy, I play them through DM first, then enter CSB, play each path fully in the order Dain-Neta-Ros-Ku, and I explore every corner of the dungeon, loot all treasure, kill all monsters (and avoid triggering generators as far as it is possible), but I am aware that there are other styles of play which are also very efficient, even if they follow a totally different approach than what I found to suite me best.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.
You are comign to know the dungeon...circles is as good a way as any to think of it
And yes, each path has three starts, that lead to one 'pay-off- area with a key. You then, throguh the DDD (sometimes in weird ways) get to the right door to use your key, and then the second part of the path - at the end of each you will find a pit room to take a corbum from
You need to destroy all four corbums in the FULYA pit to thwart Lord Chaos, which is in the topmost level - it is reachable once you complete each path, but best to leave it til last! deeeeeeeeeemons, many deeemons
Yes, csb randomly seeds the dungeon once you go to the junction of ways, which DM didn't do
Also, you can view dungeons throuh the various editor programmes to see stats...i used DMute, there is also DMBuilder and CSBuild (different authors, both can see DM)
And yes, each path has three starts, that lead to one 'pay-off- area with a key. You then, throguh the DDD (sometimes in weird ways) get to the right door to use your key, and then the second part of the path - at the end of each you will find a pit room to take a corbum from
You need to destroy all four corbums in the FULYA pit to thwart Lord Chaos, which is in the topmost level - it is reachable once you complete each path, but best to leave it til last! deeeeeeeeeemons, many deeemons
Yes, csb randomly seeds the dungeon once you go to the junction of ways, which DM didn't do
Also, you can view dungeons throuh the various editor programmes to see stats...i used DMute, there is also DMBuilder and CSBuild (different authors, both can see DM)
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Paul Cassel
- Journeyman
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:04 am
- Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Lunever, Beowuuf,
I should have made clear that whilst I’ve been told the goal here, my personal experience so far doesn’t seem to be proceeding upon a line which will satisfy that goal. I did read Lunever’s earlier post and Beowuuf’s current one about the Corbum. What confused me is that the special keys I got from starting NETA to the DDD didn’t open anything interesting. I anticipated continuing beyond the DDD, but instead looped back to the Supplies for Quick room which surprised the heck out of me.
I am playing CSB for Windows which, AFAIK, doesn’t support in import from any game I can play such as RTC. I had a fairly powerful team from playing mid level RTC at one time, but saw no import possibilities so didn’t pursue that goal. I once owned DM for PC which I suppose may play on my current Athlon / Windows XP box, but I don’t have it any more. I never got the sound to work under Windows but didn’t have the VMSound program either which, I’m told, does the trick. I’m unclear if a DM for PC (or Atari?) team can be imported into CSBWin anyway.
Per my past messages, I’m somewhat reluctant to use maps or to pursue walk throughs or even hint books. I’ve gotten enough here to get a start and even make it in NETA at least to the DDD. I have no idea how much more there is to NETA as I looped back somehow. I feel that using maps unless really stuck or for that matter hints, takes something out of the game. For example, there was a puzzle in a room with mummies in NETA which I solved to some degree of satisfaction where I would have lost that satisfaction had I just read about it. I’m being vague so as not to create a spoiler for Denise or others who, like me, are just seeing this game newly.
I enjoy the surprises the game offers which also militates against my using maps or hint books. I asked for some advice earlier because I was more than surprised – I was overwhelmed. I am unsure if I’m going to try DAIN or KU this go around. Maybe I’ll sample both and see if one is too much for me at this point. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
I should have made clear that whilst I’ve been told the goal here, my personal experience so far doesn’t seem to be proceeding upon a line which will satisfy that goal. I did read Lunever’s earlier post and Beowuuf’s current one about the Corbum. What confused me is that the special keys I got from starting NETA to the DDD didn’t open anything interesting. I anticipated continuing beyond the DDD, but instead looped back to the Supplies for Quick room which surprised the heck out of me.
I am playing CSB for Windows which, AFAIK, doesn’t support in import from any game I can play such as RTC. I had a fairly powerful team from playing mid level RTC at one time, but saw no import possibilities so didn’t pursue that goal. I once owned DM for PC which I suppose may play on my current Athlon / Windows XP box, but I don’t have it any more. I never got the sound to work under Windows but didn’t have the VMSound program either which, I’m told, does the trick. I’m unclear if a DM for PC (or Atari?) team can be imported into CSBWin anyway.
Per my past messages, I’m somewhat reluctant to use maps or to pursue walk throughs or even hint books. I’ve gotten enough here to get a start and even make it in NETA at least to the DDD. I have no idea how much more there is to NETA as I looped back somehow. I feel that using maps unless really stuck or for that matter hints, takes something out of the game. For example, there was a puzzle in a room with mummies in NETA which I solved to some degree of satisfaction where I would have lost that satisfaction had I just read about it. I’m being vague so as not to create a spoiler for Denise or others who, like me, are just seeing this game newly.
I enjoy the surprises the game offers which also militates against my using maps or hint books. I asked for some advice earlier because I was more than surprised – I was overwhelmed. I am unsure if I’m going to try DAIN or KU this go around. Maybe I’ll sample both and see if one is too much for me at this point. –Paul Cassel, NM, USA
Indeed, I feel bad about giving hints, but then again if you think the game is unfair you won't play, so wanted to let you see it does have both thigns to solve and subtlety
last hint - at the DDD, don't limit yourself to thinking only you trigger pressure pads, and certainly don't limit yourself to thinking you and creatures influence them in the same way...
last hint - at the DDD, don't limit yourself to thinking only you trigger pressure pads, and certainly don't limit yourself to thinking you and creatures influence them in the same way...
Original CSB by FTL on Amiga and ST did allow to import an old DM party. I believe, CSBWin does too, but I haven't tried that in CSBWin, so I'm not sure about that. RTC goes even farther, you can make a new game importing any character from any other RTC-savegame, you can even compose a party of characters imported from different savegames.
Out of nostalgia, I always I did what I had been doing on good old Amiga: Playing DM until the fusion of Lord Chaos, saving a split second before His banishing, then importing that party into CSB.
Out of nostalgia, I always I did what I had been doing on good old Amiga: Playing DM until the fusion of Lord Chaos, saving a split second before His banishing, then importing that party into CSB.
Parting is all we know from Heaven, and all we need of hell.