maybe already asked..
remember dm2 ending movie showing a dark lord (chaos?) sitting on a throne. he transforms the bad guy to a worm and that's all... i guess the guy was dragoth..
this scene appears to me like a 'to be continued' thing just like they do in hollywood to suggest a sequel.
.. so what could happen next ?
...and after dm2 ?
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A few thoughts
1. What is the overlord who transforms dragoth?
is it a player character like you or me, just fighting for the dark side??
is it an unknown evil more powerful than anything yet seen?
is it a spawn of lord chaos´s essence?
is it a former friend/rival of dragoth?
how does he/it transform dragoth into the worm?
What role does the foodbowl have in this case?
By taking a worm and eating or dissolving it into his/its right hand he could overwhelm the exhausted dragoth.. and shapechange him, likely for ever.
Why does a such powerful creature not try to rule the world or conquer it on it´s own?
Is the black figure so strong?? i mean, does it have to eat? if so could one defeat it by locking it into it´s own world, killing everything, escaping through a dimesion gate seal all ways out and let it starve it to death?
likely it is so mighty that it wants to stay hidden, or his plans are a much more higher scale than expected: multiple universes
maybe?
He could have known that dragoth would fail...
If he just uses the worms in the bowl not for eating, instead of means for transformation, he has quite a many of them in stock, maybe for all his other dragoth´s out there???
A story has yet to come for the ´Official Dungeon Master 3´ ...with many worms!!!
1. What is the overlord who transforms dragoth?
is it a player character like you or me, just fighting for the dark side??
is it an unknown evil more powerful than anything yet seen?
is it a spawn of lord chaos´s essence?
is it a former friend/rival of dragoth?
how does he/it transform dragoth into the worm?
What role does the foodbowl have in this case?
By taking a worm and eating or dissolving it into his/its right hand he could overwhelm the exhausted dragoth.. and shapechange him, likely for ever.
Why does a such powerful creature not try to rule the world or conquer it on it´s own?
Is the black figure so strong?? i mean, does it have to eat? if so could one defeat it by locking it into it´s own world, killing everything, escaping through a dimesion gate seal all ways out and let it starve it to death?
likely it is so mighty that it wants to stay hidden, or his plans are a much more higher scale than expected: multiple universes
maybe?
He could have known that dragoth would fail...
If he just uses the worms in the bowl not for eating, instead of means for transformation, he has quite a many of them in stock, maybe for all his other dragoth´s out there???
A story has yet to come for the ´Official Dungeon Master 3´ ...with many worms!!!
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linflas
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of course i remember sucinum's stories but i was more thinking about the evil lord rather than dragoth..
but for what ? what are the real plans of this powerful evil force ?
(this question just came to my mind last night when i was coming back home from a cool roleplay party
)
that's the point ! so who's that overlord which strangely looks like chaos ? maybe dragoth was just a "test", don't you think ?zoooom wrote:He could have known that dragoth would fail...
but for what ? what are the real plans of this powerful evil force ?
(this question just came to my mind last night when i was coming back home from a cool roleplay party
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cowsmanaut
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Like a soul sewn with gossamer thread, the evil one broke free once again. It was not that he could not have broken free sooner. Their bond was a tenous one at most. Never full bonded. No, it was all timing. He knew the moment he broke free they "he" would snitch. They would then come for him. He needed time. Time to prepare. So he waited when the land slumbered in their dreams of peace. With their ideas of utopia swirling their heads. When old worriors are useless and young worriors untested, unready. Yes this was the time.
Tearing the tender threads of their soul he split apart in the dead of night. "He" would awaken soon. Confused, uncertain of what had happened. He would realise too late.
Slipping from shadow to shadow trying to keep quiet is cackles of glee. he slipped from the town and into the night and the great shadow of this lair. Mount Anias. There was work to be done. "things" unfinnished.
"yes" he thought to himself "they will be impatient after all this time. Perhaps I should bring just one for them to play with. Their skills still untested"
Out on the borders of the dark ones land. A land no one had dared to develop or live in since that dark time. The land they wanted to forget. Lived one man. An aged hero, now also forgotten. The towsfolk left him alone because again, he was a reminder.
He had tried to warn them once that it may not be over. That the dark one might one day return. However, the grey lord grew over confident in his control. The fool, and they were inclined to belive him. They would all be unprepared for the battle he knew was comming, but at least he would be here. He would be ready.
At just that moment. Cruel irony struck him in his moment of bitterness. A suddent force bounded into his head.. a great white light filled his eyes and then there the darness came. From within that darkness he could swear he heard a voice. He could hear laughter. He knew that voice.
"oh no" was all he could utter before complete blackness took him.
------------------------------------------------
So, what are these things Chaos wants to test? Who is this aged worrior? Will the lord of darkness stick to his mountain.. wait for them to come to him? Or will he bring his darkness and creations to them?
wooooo
Tearing the tender threads of their soul he split apart in the dead of night. "He" would awaken soon. Confused, uncertain of what had happened. He would realise too late.
Slipping from shadow to shadow trying to keep quiet is cackles of glee. he slipped from the town and into the night and the great shadow of this lair. Mount Anias. There was work to be done. "things" unfinnished.
"yes" he thought to himself "they will be impatient after all this time. Perhaps I should bring just one for them to play with. Their skills still untested"
Out on the borders of the dark ones land. A land no one had dared to develop or live in since that dark time. The land they wanted to forget. Lived one man. An aged hero, now also forgotten. The towsfolk left him alone because again, he was a reminder.
He had tried to warn them once that it may not be over. That the dark one might one day return. However, the grey lord grew over confident in his control. The fool, and they were inclined to belive him. They would all be unprepared for the battle he knew was comming, but at least he would be here. He would be ready.
At just that moment. Cruel irony struck him in his moment of bitterness. A suddent force bounded into his head.. a great white light filled his eyes and then there the darness came. From within that darkness he could swear he heard a voice. He could hear laughter. He knew that voice.
"oh no" was all he could utter before complete blackness took him.
------------------------------------------------
So, what are these things Chaos wants to test? Who is this aged worrior? Will the lord of darkness stick to his mountain.. wait for them to come to him? Or will he bring his darkness and creations to them?
wooooo
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Gambit37
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It's pretty obvious that the dark guy is Chaos. This game *is* called Dungeon Master 2 for a reason you know! Be little point using the trademark, if the story had no connection whatsoever.
Anyway, it even says so in the ending movie, and it also shows that the story must have been changed after these movies were made:
Chaos: "Dragoth, what news do you bring?"
Dragoth: "Theron's champions are more powerful than I expected, Lord Chaos."
Chaos: "Failure?"
Dragoth: "Yes"
Chaos: "You know my price.... for failure!"
Dragoth: "No! Please my Lord....."
Chaos: "Don't fear...." (turns him into a tiger worm)
Chaos: "So Theron, we are enemies again. How long will your champions survive this time?"
Note that Theron is used here, not Torham. I will have to find out why there is this inconsistency. But setting that aside, it's pretty clear about who was running the show...
(BTW, this in the Mac movies, can't remember if you get the full voiceover in the PC version. You definitely don't in the Sega/Amiga versions)
Anyway, it even says so in the ending movie, and it also shows that the story must have been changed after these movies were made:
Chaos: "Dragoth, what news do you bring?"
Dragoth: "Theron's champions are more powerful than I expected, Lord Chaos."
Chaos: "Failure?"
Dragoth: "Yes"
Chaos: "You know my price.... for failure!"
Dragoth: "No! Please my Lord....."
Chaos: "Don't fear...." (turns him into a tiger worm)
Chaos: "So Theron, we are enemies again. How long will your champions survive this time?"
Note that Theron is used here, not Torham. I will have to find out why there is this inconsistency. But setting that aside, it's pretty clear about who was running the show...
(BTW, this in the Mac movies, can't remember if you get the full voiceover in the PC version. You definitely don't in the Sega/Amiga versions)
Yes, the voiceover sounds just like that. Maybe they are still Theron's champions because Torham is fom the house of Zed, making him a descendent of Theron's champions.
(Mac DM2 Manual)
"He is coming. I see him in my dreams..."
"Who, Uncle?" Torham had asked. But his uncle had fallen silent, his eyes closed, a look of terror on his face. Torham had waited, but his uncle hadn't spoken again for a long time. Then he whispered, "Torham, I feel him in my frozen old bones. I can sense him inside my mind. He is watching us, and listeneing to us. He is waiting for the moment when we have grown complacent and ceased to worry about him. Then he will strike!"
Aparently, sometime between DM1 and DM2, his "person" tried to go through the Zo-Link before. The woman mentions the High Lords from DM1, but says nothing about the evil that is gathering. Dragoth is clearly a recently made-up minion, and the real question is who does he work for (we have esatblished this question)
In the only walkthrough I could find on DM2, the writer seems to think that he is saying Lord Delos (DAY-los) or something to that effect.
(Mac DM2 Manual)
"He is coming. I see him in my dreams..."
"Who, Uncle?" Torham had asked. But his uncle had fallen silent, his eyes closed, a look of terror on his face. Torham had waited, but his uncle hadn't spoken again for a long time. Then he whispered, "Torham, I feel him in my frozen old bones. I can sense him inside my mind. He is watching us, and listeneing to us. He is waiting for the moment when we have grown complacent and ceased to worry about him. Then he will strike!"
Aparently, sometime between DM1 and DM2, his "person" tried to go through the Zo-Link before. The woman mentions the High Lords from DM1, but says nothing about the evil that is gathering. Dragoth is clearly a recently made-up minion, and the real question is who does he work for (we have esatblished this question)
In the only walkthrough I could find on DM2, the writer seems to think that he is saying Lord Delos (DAY-los) or something to that effect.
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FallenSeraphin
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Guest
Interesting, i never knew about the mac outro dialogue...
I just checked the encyclopaedia:
Theron is the (former) apprentice of the grey lord.
He wanted to become archmaster of all classes, a very self confident plan. We all know, he eventually changed that plan and saved the world instead. To be true, for when the world was torn apart, he had no real alternative. -->" My Lord, what magick has caused us to be like ghosts? " dm manual, Page iX, read until page X or more..
Thorin is a GHOST that is still on the material plane, not like the two lords, that were thrown off of the material plane because of the explosion (same page in the manual and upper part of pageX).
Lord Order cannot enter the world(dungeon), whereas Lord chaos cannot leave the world(dungeon).
He/thorin/ has maybe no chance to regain his body.
You all know the two parts cannot come near to each other. So thorin has to go..
Lord chaos is a force, and even the grey lord has maybe never been on the normal world like humans have. The three cannot interact directly in the world but THorin is able to influence the leading champion.
Lord chaos, scheming like there is no tomorrow sends loyal servants who he can lend some power. Maybe with the help of the Zo machine he wanted to become more substantial/real ...
It is only logical that Lord chaos has to be challenged by some supernatural force/ghost and not by a human.
On contrary to thorin, Torham is just a "picture in a frame". Or is he?? WHo knows..
Anywayl, Thorin is eternal and he is a good coach (successful in dm1, csb and thorin´s quest(that being a quest accomplished in human form). and here we go....
I just checked the encyclopaedia:
Theron is the (former) apprentice of the grey lord.
He wanted to become archmaster of all classes, a very self confident plan. We all know, he eventually changed that plan and saved the world instead. To be true, for when the world was torn apart, he had no real alternative. -->" My Lord, what magick has caused us to be like ghosts? " dm manual, Page iX, read until page X or more..
Thorin is a GHOST that is still on the material plane, not like the two lords, that were thrown off of the material plane because of the explosion (same page in the manual and upper part of pageX).
Lord Order cannot enter the world(dungeon), whereas Lord chaos cannot leave the world(dungeon).
He/thorin/ has maybe no chance to regain his body.
You all know the two parts cannot come near to each other. So thorin has to go..
Lord chaos is a force, and even the grey lord has maybe never been on the normal world like humans have. The three cannot interact directly in the world but THorin is able to influence the leading champion.
Lord chaos, scheming like there is no tomorrow sends loyal servants who he can lend some power. Maybe with the help of the Zo machine he wanted to become more substantial/real ...
It is only logical that Lord chaos has to be challenged by some supernatural force/ghost and not by a human.
On contrary to thorin, Torham is just a "picture in a frame". Or is he?? WHo knows..
Anywayl, Thorin is eternal and he is a good coach (successful in dm1, csb and thorin´s quest(that being a quest accomplished in human form). and here we go....
I think you slightly misunderstand the story. Ttheron was always the grey lord's apprenice, learnign the arts, and was restored to normal status after the first DM game (the end of PC DM shows everything being restored, and in the CSB story we see that Theron managed to become his Archmaster self and was arestored along with the Grey Lord). There is no three parts - the grey lord is a normal, if surpemely powerful, being - he was ripped in two, personaility wise - one part was trapped outside the world unable to enter, the other trapped inside the dungeon, but was a part of the material plane still - you surely have the fireball and claw marks to prove it : )
Chaos and order were amalgamated back on fusing with the firestaff.
The CSB story makes it clrear that Chaos had a plan for pulling himself free of the Grey Lord again, actually I think it was to become the dominant personality this time, since he actually appeared in The grey lord's body. In that case, if he also laid some other plan, or had some faithful minion, that could again allow him sway in the grey lor'd body and miond, then he wouldn't have the same restriction to his power as during the accident of DM - he would be a normal, if insane, being free to roam wherever and be and an ultimately powerful, high lord - the grey lord without any limit to his power or sanity : )
Chaos and order were amalgamated back on fusing with the firestaff.
The CSB story makes it clrear that Chaos had a plan for pulling himself free of the Grey Lord again, actually I think it was to become the dominant personality this time, since he actually appeared in The grey lord's body. In that case, if he also laid some other plan, or had some faithful minion, that could again allow him sway in the grey lor'd body and miond, then he wouldn't have the same restriction to his power as during the accident of DM - he would be a normal, if insane, being free to roam wherever and be and an ultimately powerful, high lord - the grey lord without any limit to his power or sanity : )
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linflas
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looks like a priest quoting the holy bibleAnonymous wrote:"My Lord, what magick has caused us to be like ghosts? " dm manual, Page iX, read until page X...
do we create a new religion ? anyway, i like the idea of that ghosts story.. even if beowuuf is certainly right. but i still don't understand : in CSB, if Chaos -IS- the grey Lord who got crazy, then, that lord in DM2, where is he ? is lord grey's body still alive ? and what happened to theron ?
OH SH**T !! I mixed up a lot here! How embarrassing!(for i made sure the name was not thorham ..oh well)
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I did not read through the csb manual for ages...*runs and reads*
= )Canis Altus, of course you are right!
Question : WHere the heck is Lord Order??? Is he part of the new, materialized Lord Chaos from csb? If so is Librasulus succumbing to Chaos?
Was the dungeon located under mount doom, but in another plane than lake viborg?..
I cannot send THeron with you this time, my brave ones. He´s the only weapon i have to battle Chaos here on our plane
What plane does he mean?.Do the heros have to travel into another plane? Lord cHaos wants to destroy the world...
dm2: they build the "dread machine" and there is a Worldcouncil
THere are worlds within worlds, my nephew.- worlds of good and worlds of destruction. In the old days we sought to explore those worlds - and paid dearly for it.
Surely they met lord chaos there, who had already schemed an hideous plan...to use the machine for his own benefit.
So, Mylius says that worlds have been discovered with Zo-Links... And Lord Chaos has full form in another world- meaning that the Grey Lord must not be around, and Lord Order is lurking around somewhere. Presumably, Lord Chaos and Lord Order are in the original world of Theron and the Grey Lord, and Zalk is either a new explored world or a part of the original world, separated at great distance from the Grey Lord's keep.
As i said, in CSB and so maybe the end of DM 2,. it isn't that chaos and order have split, i think it is that chaos, the darker aspects of the grey lord, regain dominance and push down the rest (effectively librasulus) - so i thinkit is the grey lord's body
by the sound of it the high lords are immortal and very powerful, so i oculd easily see the grey lord still alive and studying even after theron passes away, but he would have no help nor even knowledge if chaos managed to emerge again...
Hmm, i'#ll need to reread the DM 2 story and the CSB for that part - i always thought DM 2 wasset in the further future but the same world, and as far as i know mount anias (doom) is right beside viborg and is in the same world
by the sound of it the high lords are immortal and very powerful, so i oculd easily see the grey lord still alive and studying even after theron passes away, but he would have no help nor even knowledge if chaos managed to emerge again...
Hmm, i'#ll need to reread the DM 2 story and the CSB for that part - i always thought DM 2 wasset in the further future but the same world, and as far as i know mount anias (doom) is right beside viborg and is in the same world