monsters AI

Post by **linflas** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:21 am

of course everybody knows the fighting-dance in DM but there's a funny trick with the monsters AI in CSBwin.
if you move around monsters very fast -enough to get behind them- and you attack them with weapons, they won't be able to stay there, turn once, face you. in fact, they keep crawling in the direction they were if there's nothing to block them. but, if you attack them with fireballs, they will turn and face you immediately.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:15 pm

Are you talking about scorpions? They (and perhaps spiders) have a similar "fighting technique".
I think it was a tip on the encyclopaedia, to get behind a scorpion (or beowuuf wrote it), and then always follow it; you can this way, walk behind the monster and make continuous hits...
--
Well, maybe you mean sth. completely different....

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:33 pm

Scorpions have less sense...so if you are behind them, they are just as likely to walk off. I'm sure thye do react to damage normally though - so fireballs or hits hsould be the same.
Hmm
Unless it's a difference between fire and blows?

Antman · Post by **Antman** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:31 am

Its the same for all monsters, not just scorpions, you can continually chase them from behind attacking them with weapons untill you throw an object, throw a spell, or if you chase them into a deadend or a hallway where they can can only move foward or backwards, they usually turn and face you.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:12 pm

Wasps and munchers and gigglers could be different i think, because they are so fast!
No real chance to chase them... as far as i am concerned
Rockpiles and waterelementals are different, bcs no rear end there..???
fire elementals are special

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:34 pm

there is definitely two components - speed and alertness

Scorpions are fast, but not too alert, so their dithering means they can wander off
Wasps munchers are alert and fast, so they always manage to round on you

The dragon seems alert but slow, so that you can usually stay behind it and that seems to make it wander away occasionally

Antman · Post by **Antman** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:22 am

I think all monsters have a rear and front end even rockpiles and water elementals, because if you are facing one and it is attacking you, then you run behind it it and start attacking it, it takes quite awhile for it to start attacking again, like it is turning around, or it will move away.

I am not too sure about alertness, i think munchers are alert just because they are fast and you can't stay behind them without the boots of speed. I always thought speed and range of sensing were the only components. Paul was looking into monster AI a while ago, can't remember what he turned up though.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:12 pm

MAybe a rear side is kind of simulated; they have only 2 graphics associated with them.
so just for making it hard to stay behind the creature, not being sure whether it is the back you are facing or the front..
alertness and range of sensing is basically the same thing...seems to be one of the most complicated matters in the whole game, Monster AI....

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:34 pm

Maybe the scorpion/spiders do tell the difference between having a sword in your back or a fireball up their arse

wouldnt that prove their inteligence ?

Post by **linflas** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:12 pm

happy to come back from weekend and seeing so many answers

and yes this is for ALL monsters, speed differences between monsters can give you the impression of alertness, but there's none, imho. i especially like dancing wih the DDD super-strong dragon

by the way, i was thinking about the difference between CSBwin and RTC on this point.
RTC AI sounds like : "want to kill champions, run on them. if they are behind me, face them immediately", but -and that's why RTC is quite harder than CSBwin to me- "if i have allies, WE try to attack champions from several directions."

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:45 am

bunch of flankers : (

Post by **Zyx** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:16 am

Paul, i was wondering just how hard it would be to allow the following for monsters:
-use a bit to know (and design) wether the group is splittable or not. (By default monsters should not be splittable.)
-split the group when attacked/attacking.
-maybe allow regrouping (but not so important).

This would allow to reproduce some attitudes seen in RTC.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:01 am

Very hard. Too hard. Not DM-like, besides. You can always
use RTC for your next masterpiece to get some of these
additional 'effects' and make something a little different.
It has a lot of enhancements from the original DM engine.