Hidden vs. Visible Skills

[Tom Hatfield]

Just curious what people prefer. DM and its ilk have quite a few "hidden" attributes that largely define each character in ways that only Paul S. can possibly understand (and I question even that). Do you like this? Would you rather be able to view these abilities in-game without having to hack the application's memory space (or save files)? Personally, I'm a fan of visible skills, but hidden qualities do provide a kind of mystique, like each character has secret powers that can be exposed only through action.

[beowuuf]

What you said in your last post - while it can be annoying, there is something very long lasting about thinking a character has a certain 'something' you can't define and having debates about it, then finding out years later there was a hidden skill thye possessed!

[PaulH]

Yes, I am very much in favour of the hidden skill. It adds yet a probable unidentifiable quantity... adds to the game

[Sera]

meh, i dunno, although i do favor hidden skills, i dont like the fact that it could be something that you have to just find out for and takes forever to, so, ill hit in for visible

[Suule]

Hidden skills affects the gameplay more than you could imagine (Available attacks are affted by this!). I managed to get their names (Thank you DM2 Hintbook) for DM2 and I will try to make them more 'visible' in DM2.5, since they give hints about what weapons the champion is skilled with.

[Sigi]

I found this feature always one of the most interesting concerning character development in DM. The 'dmweb' site has some info about the hidden skills, especially which amulets affect which hidden skills, but it doesn't explain them completely -- so the mystery remains to a certain extent, at least for me.

--Sigi

[Tom Hatfield]

Good responses. Okay, let me rephrase the question:

How much impact should hidden skills have? Because in DM it seems they pretty much define your character on a fairly low level. Considering that they are in fact pre-fab characters, this probably makes sense . . . but if you made the character yourself, would you rather be able to see all or most relevant skills? How far do you think hidden skills should go in defining a character?

[Suule]

They have a BIG impact! Hidden skills determine how powerful spells you can cast (from one of the 4 'schools' what kind of attacks you can have and AFAIR the hit probalitly.

[Tom Hatfield]

That's what I said: "define your character on a low level."

[Suule]

Actually... there's a lot of high-level special attacks that are very useful.

[zoom]

I mean it doesn´t make that much of a difference to have hidden skills character wise. Eventually, characters all get better, so they more or less all can brew potions reasonably well or make decent attacks.Hidden skills are great for some items, make you believe there is more in the game, and make for a overall change/evolve of each unique game session

Hidden skills keep the character sheet simple, you just see some stats and don´t need to bother with 30 stats and levels...

[Tom Hatfield]

You make a good point: "keep the character sheet simple." I suppose it's a tradeoff between people who like to crunch numbers, and people who like to play the game. In that case, it depends entirely on your audience. Still, one-third of voters so far said they prefer visible skills. Make of that what you will.

Suule: When I say low-level, I don't mean character level. It refers to the components that make up something; cells are a low-level component of an organism. Hidden skills define characters on a low-level because they have such a large impact and you can't see them. I hope we're on the same wavelength now. :)

[Suule]

>.< Must've been sleepy when I read your post. Yeah... it's all clear now.

[PaulH]

One reason why this game is so great is because we are only just discovering new things. Never underestimate these hidden numbers. I'm all for it. Is Stamm the best?

[Tom Hatfield]

That's what I thought after reading zoooom's last post. It's fun uncovering new secrets 15 years after you started playing. I haven't actually played DM or even DM2 in quite a while, but I still find myself interested in their underpinnings. I'm also interested in what makes a truly memorable game, hence this thread.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, I think hidden skills and mechanics are fun - they makes for threads and threads about that indefinable 'something' that made x such a good charatcer, or y such a good weapon. If you ever wanted to compromise, then you can include the hidden skills in the game so players won't know right off, but make all these mechanics visible in some form of editor (or clearly documented in the code) so that they can then be spotted and understood later by people...

[Sigi]

Good responses. Okay, let me rephrase the question:

How much impact should hidden skills have? Because in DM it seems they pretty much define your character on a fairly low level. Considering that they are in fact pre-fab characters, this probably makes sense . . . but if you made the character yourself, would you rather be able to see all or most relevant skills? How far do you think hidden skills should go in defining a character?

OK. Hidden skills should have a big impact, let's say at least 40% or so to the character potential/strength.

It would also be great if the hidden skills (or some of them) would be presented to the player in at least some way (not as numbers of course). Think of the way your character started to look when you entered the Dark Side in that Star Wars RPG (the one with the long name I'm just unable to recall). Maybe the character portrait could hint at the hidden potential or something else.

Eg. Mophus would definitely have a hidden convince-them-to-sell-their-souls-to-you-skill or something like that if that would be relevant to DM in any way .

--Sigi

[zoom]

there is a reason there are clothes. Not always it is best to "see" everything.