That I'm posting this here is a tribute to my desperation.
So, I have this problem, peculiar as it may be: when I'm alone, I have no difficulty speaking. I have quite literally held conversations with myself (or, rather, imaginary companions in the image of friends, family, and the occasional fabrication) for hours. So I know I'm quite perfectly capable of speaking, and I already know I can listen because it's what I do all the time.
In fact, therein lies the heart of the problem. When there are people around, even if it's just one person, or if I'm on the phone, my ability of speech disappears almost entirely. It's like that part of brain just shuts itself down, and I go into autistic listen mode. I can still speak, mind you; I can contribute to a conversation, but only to a far lesser capacity. My power of language seems to be purely in writing, not speech, and this bothers me greatly because I want to speak to people.
My question is, does anyone know of any books or techniques or resources, or do you have any advice that would allow me to overcome this problem? I had an idea once, that I could picture the words as I would write them, and then "read" them out of my mind's eye, as if I were having a verbal conversation on paper, but my brain doesn't have enough multi-tasking functionality — nor does it process quickly enough — to do this in a practical situation.
This is a serious issue for me. I don't expect much help on an Internet forum, but anything at all is greatly appreciated. A psychologist could probably help me out, but I can't afford the couch fee. I'm looking for something free or exceedingly inexpensive. And I don't have a lot of friends to practice on, unfortunately. Most of them are simply too busy with their lives.
Social/verbal impediment - breaking the ice
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Tom Hatfield
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Ouch.
Is it a problem with articulating flowing thoughts with the pressures of people around, or is it any speaking? If the former, perhaps tutoring (at any level you have the knowledge to pass on, even high schoolers), where the emphasis would be on you being asked and answering discrete questions, on knowledge that is already in your brian so easier to articulate.
Is it a problem with articulating flowing thoughts with the pressures of people around, or is it any speaking? If the former, perhaps tutoring (at any level you have the knowledge to pass on, even high schoolers), where the emphasis would be on you being asked and answering discrete questions, on knowledge that is already in your brian so easier to articulate.
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Sophia
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I question the effective use of time and money on the psychologist, anyway. They mostly alternate between telling you what you want to hear and telling you the opposite of what you want to hear in order to let you sort the problem out yourself.
Anyway, teenagers are a cruel, cynical lot, so I wouldn't start with high schoolers if you have any sort of social obstacles.
Anyway, teenagers are a cruel, cynical lot, so I wouldn't start with high schoolers if you have any sort of social obstacles.
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cowsmanaut
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interesting thing, I was exactly that kind of person who could not carry a conversation on if I wanted to. I would stutter a lot. That took me a few years to learn how to think a few words out before speaking. Wait a second before I started my mouth so my brain could find the files I was looking for. Later when I got over the stutter I still didn't really want to speak out of some odd fear that I might screw up or say something stupid. I always wanted to be a part of the conversation but just really had not idea how I could be "worthy" of it and it only got worse when it came to women.
My first step was making the decision to just say something I felt like. I felt my heart racing and I was on the verge of sweating. I found the moment where I could think of something to say and then just blurted it out.. and .. wow. The world didn't colapse.. people didn't suddenly look at me like I was growing a carrot out of my ear.. they just responded to my statement and continued to talk. I was in control of how much I wanted to contribute. So I said a few more things after that and started to build on it.
One on one is much more difficult. Absolute strangers.. that had been a big issue for me before. However, somehow.. now. I'm teaching a class to 20 new faces and carrying on through out the year.. and really it can be 20 new faces every few months as I have 3 different groups I teach that are on different timelines. I need to be able to not only teach them.. but keep them listening.. so I need to entertain them too. I'll make small and silly jokes, relate stories to them about horrible things that computers can do.. all sorts of related stories and unrelated even.. as long as there is something in them that can amuse.
So, I have a list of favorite stories in my head. I know them well and those are my tools. They are what I use to make conversations happen. It used to be that I would slowly and carefully steer the topic to one of those stories and then I would share the story. Once done, I had contributed to the conversation and it would be someone elses turn.. and I could move on. As a teacher now, I'm responsible for 90% of the conversation since they are there to listen to me. Though I will get them to fill in some blanks to make sure they are listening
but anyway, if you think about it.. I went from stuttering wall flower who was afraid of everyone. To a person who can talk to complete strangers and tell stories and go to parties and so on.. in a matter of a couple years.. each day a step closer.. no big rush.
you have the benefit many times of knowing about some interests the person you plan to talk to has. Prepare some statements, or stories related to the topic. Be prepared that they may have a similar story or are aware of the information you are relating to them. Just be sure to have an oppinion on it. That you can share. Think about that.. in advance. At first it seems like an interview.. but what you are doing is training your brain how to have conversations. Then it's the mental blocks you need to push down... and those.. I can't really tell you much about.. because I was freaking terrified of them.. I just decided to take the fear and speak anyway.. because if I didn't try.. then those mental blocks didn't matter.. because I NEVER WOULD be talking to people. So I mean.. it's not logical. I'm afraid to talk to people because I think I can't talk to people or people wouldn't want to talk to me.. how can I know... and really, if they don't want to talk to me.. why do I want to be there? There is someone for everyone.. people who share interests.. if you can't think of things to say right off.. think of questions, people often like to talk about themselves..
moo
My first step was making the decision to just say something I felt like. I felt my heart racing and I was on the verge of sweating. I found the moment where I could think of something to say and then just blurted it out.. and .. wow. The world didn't colapse.. people didn't suddenly look at me like I was growing a carrot out of my ear.. they just responded to my statement and continued to talk. I was in control of how much I wanted to contribute. So I said a few more things after that and started to build on it.
One on one is much more difficult. Absolute strangers.. that had been a big issue for me before. However, somehow.. now. I'm teaching a class to 20 new faces and carrying on through out the year.. and really it can be 20 new faces every few months as I have 3 different groups I teach that are on different timelines. I need to be able to not only teach them.. but keep them listening.. so I need to entertain them too. I'll make small and silly jokes, relate stories to them about horrible things that computers can do.. all sorts of related stories and unrelated even.. as long as there is something in them that can amuse.
So, I have a list of favorite stories in my head. I know them well and those are my tools. They are what I use to make conversations happen. It used to be that I would slowly and carefully steer the topic to one of those stories and then I would share the story. Once done, I had contributed to the conversation and it would be someone elses turn.. and I could move on. As a teacher now, I'm responsible for 90% of the conversation since they are there to listen to me. Though I will get them to fill in some blanks to make sure they are listening
but anyway, if you think about it.. I went from stuttering wall flower who was afraid of everyone. To a person who can talk to complete strangers and tell stories and go to parties and so on.. in a matter of a couple years.. each day a step closer.. no big rush.
you have the benefit many times of knowing about some interests the person you plan to talk to has. Prepare some statements, or stories related to the topic. Be prepared that they may have a similar story or are aware of the information you are relating to them. Just be sure to have an oppinion on it. That you can share. Think about that.. in advance. At first it seems like an interview.. but what you are doing is training your brain how to have conversations. Then it's the mental blocks you need to push down... and those.. I can't really tell you much about.. because I was freaking terrified of them.. I just decided to take the fear and speak anyway.. because if I didn't try.. then those mental blocks didn't matter.. because I NEVER WOULD be talking to people. So I mean.. it's not logical. I'm afraid to talk to people because I think I can't talk to people or people wouldn't want to talk to me.. how can I know... and really, if they don't want to talk to me.. why do I want to be there? There is someone for everyone.. people who share interests.. if you can't think of things to say right off.. think of questions, people often like to talk about themselves..
moo
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Ameena
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I don't normally start conversations with strangers due to the...umm well I won't call it "fear" as such but I can't find a decent word right now...but due to the thingy that they'll just tell me to bog off. However, if they start a conversation with me then I'm normally okay as long as I have some clue as to what to say in response. Once I'm okay with the person and no they're not some kind of errm "grown up" person, I just get going and talk like I am here - this is near enough how I talk in RL (hence all the times I say "umm" and "errm" and stuff), only I tend to make loads of spoonerisms and get words the wrong way round and stuff these days, lol. But I did used to be worse with people. I suppose it's just practice and having been in more situations where I talk to strangers, over the years, so I've kinda got the gist of it and can hold a conversation pretty well...as long as I've got something I can input to it lol. It's no good my being involved in a conversation about shopping or Football because I wouldn't have a clue. If it was about pets or about a film I've seen then no problem .
But that's like Cows said - it's easier if you share an interest with the person you're talking to. At least that way you know you've got something definite to input, as long as you have some kind of opinion on the subject really.
.But that's like Cows said - it's easier if you share an interest with the person you're talking to. At least that way you know you've got something definite to input, as long as you have some kind of opinion on the subject really
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Tom Hatfield
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Beo: that's a good question. The problem seems to lie in the thought process itself . . . that is, it shuts itself down when there are people around. And, also, I find that there are many things I don't want to talk about with certain people. For example, I am not comfortable discussing love interests with anyone because they are always extremely speculative, and volatile, and I'm afraid that if I say anything I will risk making a fool of myself.
Back to the point, I did tutor at the college I work at. It wasn't difficult. I can give formal and casual presentations without any difficulty. I perform well at job interviews. So it's not the act of speaking itself, but rather the informal articulation of words as it pertains to casual conversation. I consider this more important than presentations and interviews because it's where the groundwork for a developing a social life is formed. And without a social life . . . well, what's the point in living?
People seem to like me in person, though I honestly can't say why. Perhaps it has to do with my quiet nature. If they only knew.
I have started thrusting myself into social situations as often as possible, even going so far as to ask someone out to lunch recently, though sometimes responsibility takes the front, and that rather irritates me considering my social skills are highly underdeveloped given my age (I graduated high school ten years ago). Since December, I realized much what cows has said: that people don't think nearly as low of me as I do myself, and that I genuinely have some interesting things to say, if only I can find the time and words to say them.
Also, I've noticed there's not a lot of time to stop and think in conversations, particularly those involving several people. In that case, I pretty much step aside and let everyone else do the talking unless (a) I have a point that I feel is worth making, or (b) someone asks me a direct question. I do considerably better in one-on-one situations, provided I know the person well. If not, I do more listening than usual . . . which is not altogether bad, but it's no fun feeling locked out of the dialog by my own ineptitude.
The school term ends soon, and I may have time to practice these elusive social skills. One of my friends has been trying to help me, but he lives in Indianapolis now, and I don't hear from him often. We'll see what happens. I figure if I can beat this talking problem, I may be able to do something about this chronic depression.
Back to the point, I did tutor at the college I work at. It wasn't difficult. I can give formal and casual presentations without any difficulty. I perform well at job interviews. So it's not the act of speaking itself, but rather the informal articulation of words as it pertains to casual conversation. I consider this more important than presentations and interviews because it's where the groundwork for a developing a social life is formed. And without a social life . . . well, what's the point in living?
People seem to like me in person, though I honestly can't say why. Perhaps it has to do with my quiet nature. If they only knew.
I have started thrusting myself into social situations as often as possible, even going so far as to ask someone out to lunch recently, though sometimes responsibility takes the front, and that rather irritates me considering my social skills are highly underdeveloped given my age (I graduated high school ten years ago). Since December, I realized much what cows has said: that people don't think nearly as low of me as I do myself, and that I genuinely have some interesting things to say, if only I can find the time and words to say them.
Also, I've noticed there's not a lot of time to stop and think in conversations, particularly those involving several people. In that case, I pretty much step aside and let everyone else do the talking unless (a) I have a point that I feel is worth making, or (b) someone asks me a direct question. I do considerably better in one-on-one situations, provided I know the person well. If not, I do more listening than usual . . . which is not altogether bad, but it's no fun feeling locked out of the dialog by my own ineptitude.
The school term ends soon, and I may have time to practice these elusive social skills. One of my friends has been trying to help me, but he lives in Indianapolis now, and I don't hear from him often. We'll see what happens. I figure if I can beat this talking problem, I may be able to do something about this chronic depression.
Hmm, I guess part of the solution to the problem is to be confident that you are interesting enough to be able to slow or stop a conversation to make your point.
I must admit to the opposite problem, in that I will tend to speak too much and too fast, almost as if afraid of taking the time to let the thought mature and communicate it properly - as if the listener will get bored or make assumptions about what I'm saying if I don't communicate the whole thought process. And of cours,e talking fast and half formed will lead to boring someone anyway, so it's really self-defeating!
I must admit to the opposite problem, in that I will tend to speak too much and too fast, almost as if afraid of taking the time to let the thought mature and communicate it properly - as if the listener will get bored or make assumptions about what I'm saying if I don't communicate the whole thought process. And of cours,e talking fast and half formed will lead to boring someone anyway, so it's really self-defeating!
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Ameena
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Lol hey Beo I do that too - I just have to give the specific details about what I'm saying because I'd want to know that stuff if someone was talking to me, but I know I'm being boring but I just have to give all the details 'cause it'll annoy me if I don't. So I just waffle on for ages until the other person changes the subject lol.
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Lol, probably hence why when we type we type a mile a minute and it's badly typed Ameena! And hey, how can ratties ever be boring? : )
Anyway, I hope at the least Tom you see that there are lots of people with quirks, hence you may easily find a person or group that for free can help you face to face that wouldn't cost you - I guess it's maybe spotting adverts around, or even just seeing someone approachable with a hint of nervousness or speech impediment when they talk. I had a really good lecturer who nevertheless stuttered like foghorn leghorn sometimes...but he was interesting and fun and so no one cared nor took the piss
Anyway, I hope at the least Tom you see that there are lots of people with quirks, hence you may easily find a person or group that for free can help you face to face that wouldn't cost you - I guess it's maybe spotting adverts around, or even just seeing someone approachable with a hint of nervousness or speech impediment when they talk. I had a really good lecturer who nevertheless stuttered like foghorn leghorn sometimes...but he was interesting and fun and so no one cared nor took the piss
I had the same problem in elementary school and even later. That`s not because I had gaps in mind/memory (I have it, but NOW!), but just I was just quite afraid speaking with people, especially when arguing. You just don`t have to care about the other`s opinion (what would X or Y think, etc), it helps a lot in conversation. Now I don`t care about it and have less problems with speaking, EVEN with these #%&*#$# memory gaps! And if someone is malicious for you, or unpleasant, just dont speak with him. Books won`t help you a lot here, you just have to spend a lot of time with people, especially if they`re "wordy" !!! People like them usually doesn`t have great language abilities, but just doesn`t afraid at all of speaking.My question is, does anyone know of any books or techniques or resources, or do you have any advice that would allow me to overcome this problem? (...) A psychologist could probably help me out, but I can't afford the couch fee.
My advice for you: spend a lot of time with Italians, they have really long tongues and doesn`t afraid of speaking even if their known of english isn`t good and even if they doesn`t have a faintest idea of a subject they can speak hours non-stop of any topic 
oh, and a psychologist won`t help you with that problem, IMHO. They might help you, if you`re closed person, to open up. But I don`t know how big your problem is. If it`s TREMENDOUS, you should pay for a therapy, but if it`s not, you can easily handle with that IMHO without help. A basic thing: don`t worry to open up with people, and if someone doesn`t accept you, your opinions or your "style" of speaking etc, that`s his problem - not yours. Don`t let yourself to be terrorised by an opinion of other people.
now I`ve got that problem only if I have something to hide (secrets, etc.) or when I`m trying to lie...
If not, speaking with others is not a big problem. Well, there are a kind of people wchich I cannot speak with at all, but they`re really a minor minor minority - I`m trying to avoid them.
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oh, and maybe you`re just overworked? When I have not had enough sleep or VERY tired, there`s no chance to express myself 
Sophia said:
PS. I might be wrong, but I think that people from Poland, Germany oe Scandinavia has that problem quite often. I also noticed that Brits or Italians doesn`t have problem with speaking/talking at all...
strange, isn`t it ??? maybe because Brits don`t worry to express their feelings or even to to say stupid things (ESPECIALLY IF THEY`RE DRUNK hehe 
)*, in contrary to Germans for example.
* - no offence to Brits, I love to blahblah-ing too when I`m on the party etc
Sophia said:
why`s that? this sentence is not exectly thrue: psychologists are usefull, but in very serious situations - if your problems aren`t giant, or concocted, there`s really no need to go to them.I question the effective use of time and money on the psychologist, anyway.
Cow`s is right, don`t worry about what X or Y things, what`s the difference?Later when I got over the stutter I still didn't really want to speak out of some odd fear that I might screw up or say something stupid.
PS. I might be wrong, but I think that people from Poland, Germany oe Scandinavia has that problem quite often. I also noticed that Brits or Italians doesn`t have problem with speaking/talking at all...
strange, isn`t it ??? maybe because Brits don`t worry to express their feelings or even to to say stupid things (ESPECIALLY IF THEY`RE DRUNK hehe )*, in contrary to Germans for example.* - no offence to Brits, I love to blahblah-ing too when I`m on the party etc
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Tom, it sounds like a form of anxiety that has allowed itself to build up to the extent you feel you are not in control. Hence you shut down as an avoidance tactic. This stems from a lack of self confidence, and ultimately causes depression as you are constantly thinking about it. The key is to break this circle or chain of events. Once a breakthrough is achieved, you may find that your self belief and state of mind suddenly goes the other why, and spirals upwards. But it is making this breakthrough, and it seems you are well on the way by identifying key areas where this happens. You have to believe that YOU are in control. Basic therapy can help to some extent, as can maybe an anti-depressant.
I believe what PaulH has to say is true. You are in control of your thoughts and feelings. No one else can really change that.
It sounds like you don't want to say the wrong thing, but feel the fear and do it any way. That's your mind/body trying to keep you in your safe zone and only once you've broken the habbit of shutting down, it will come easier.
The bottom line is no matter what people think of you, it doesn't matter. It's what you think or feel of yourself that matters.
It sounds like you don't want to say the wrong thing, but feel the fear and do it any way. That's your mind/body trying to keep you in your safe zone and only once you've broken the habbit of shutting down, it will come easier.
The bottom line is no matter what people think of you, it doesn't matter. It's what you think or feel of yourself that matters.
I don't know if it's a useful first step but you have the flashchat programme here. There are usually a few of us on here like myself, paulH, sophia, cows etc. Might be the right medium between having to formulate thoughts real time and also havign the ability to take as long as you like and write - all with the added bonus of you can also pm individuals in flashchat too and have one to one conversation instead
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cowsmanaut
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here's one way to look at it.. which is the way I tried to look at it to make myself talk.
if you talk you MIGHT bore someone, you MIGHT not.. if you don't talk you WILL bore them. so, if you take the chance.. you're 50/50 if you don't then you're sure to fail..
most of the time I don't bore people, and the few times I do they often forgive me.. that's what friends are for.. and then they tease me about it.. and joke.. and all that... the bastards... Just kidding
Seriously though.. just try, as there really is nothing to lose.
I did this once with a girl. I went for a walk with her just talking.. and she was saying how she wasn't looking for a boyfriend and so on. I'm not sure how that came up, but perhaps she was trying to tell me that this wasn't a date.. or didn't want to put herself out there like she was trying.. who knows. However, I liked her and my first response was to back off and not say anything. I mean if I did she'd tell me to go #$%^ myself and so on etc.. right? hmm.. well, I thought to myself. She has no idea if I'm interested in her or not.. and her statement seemed like she wasn't even sure herself what she wanted.. so at the end of the night. I said "You know, it's a shame you don't want a boyfriend." I opened the car door to get out and she said "Why?" and I said "Because I'm interested. have a good night.. talk to you later" Closed the door and winked at her.. then went in my house. I think she sat there stunned for about 2-3 mins before leaving.. I got a call later (shortly after she got home I guess) asking if I wanted to go on a date. (oh if you are wondering where the car comes in on a walk.. she drove me out to this place along the water.. deserted.. just her and me... sounds just like the exact place you want to take someone you're NOT interested in..
)
It was again a case of .. if I don't ask her.. I don't get a date.. if I do ask her.. I might get a date... and I did.. so who knows. Nothing to lose.
moo
if you talk you MIGHT bore someone, you MIGHT not.. if you don't talk you WILL bore them. so, if you take the chance.. you're 50/50 if you don't then you're sure to fail..
most of the time I don't bore people, and the few times I do they often forgive me.. that's what friends are for.. and then they tease me about it.. and joke.. and all that... the bastards...
Just kidding Seriously though.. just try, as there really is nothing to lose.
I did this once with a girl. I went for a walk with her just talking.. and she was saying how she wasn't looking for a boyfriend and so on. I'm not sure how that came up, but perhaps she was trying to tell me that this wasn't a date.. or didn't want to put herself out there like she was trying.. who knows. However, I liked her and my first response was to back off and not say anything. I mean if I did she'd tell me to go #$%^ myself and so on etc.. right? hmm.. well, I thought to myself. She has no idea if I'm interested in her or not.. and her statement seemed like she wasn't even sure herself what she wanted.. so at the end of the night. I said "You know, it's a shame you don't want a boyfriend." I opened the car door to get out and she said "Why?" and I said "Because I'm interested. have a good night.. talk to you later" Closed the door and winked at her.. then went in my house. I think she sat there stunned for about 2-3 mins before leaving.. I got a call later (shortly after she got home I guess) asking if I wanted to go on a date. (oh if you are wondering where the car comes in on a walk.. she drove me out to this place along the water.. deserted.. just her and me... sounds just like the exact place you want to take someone you're NOT interested in..
)It was again a case of .. if I don't ask her.. I don't get a date.. if I do ask her.. I might get a date... and I did.. so who knows. Nothing to lose.
moo
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Trantor
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I know exactly what you feel like Tom. I have always been just like you, and in the last months, it has gotten worse for me - so far that I almost don't talk to my friends anymore because I am convinced that all I do is either bore them to death or make them shy away from me because I can't imagine why they would want to know someone like me. Unfortunately, I cannot really give you any advice how to get better, but maybe it is a little comfort to know that you are not the only one.
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Tom Hatfield
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Broken the habit of shutting down. . .
PaulH pretty much hit that one on the head. I don't know what else to say, except that knowing how to break this habit, or what caused it in the first place (undoubtedly over the course of a lifetime), would really help. I have been taking leaps of faith with certain people, but it's not nearly enough. I don't have the humility to set myself up for a fall, and the reason I'm not keen on asking women out is because I genuinely believe they'll be bored with me.
I suppose the only thing I can do is try, but I'm afraid of burning bridges. Looking at the 50-50 perspective would be easier if I had a couple successes under my belt. Right now it's more like 99.999-0.001. Or so it seems.
I probably should not have started this topic at all. It delves into a world of depression and anxiety that I simply don't want to share here. I'm afraid the roots are deeper than I'd like to believe, and it's going to take years before I find whatever it is I'm looking for. At any rate, thanks for the insight. I have the distinct feeling I'm completely on my own here, and 28 years have proven to me that I can't do anything on my own.
PaulH pretty much hit that one on the head. I don't know what else to say, except that knowing how to break this habit, or what caused it in the first place (undoubtedly over the course of a lifetime), would really help. I have been taking leaps of faith with certain people, but it's not nearly enough. I don't have the humility to set myself up for a fall, and the reason I'm not keen on asking women out is because I genuinely believe they'll be bored with me.
I suppose the only thing I can do is try, but I'm afraid of burning bridges. Looking at the 50-50 perspective would be easier if I had a couple successes under my belt. Right now it's more like 99.999-0.001. Or so it seems.
I probably should not have started this topic at all. It delves into a world of depression and anxiety that I simply don't want to share here. I'm afraid the roots are deeper than I'd like to believe, and it's going to take years before I find whatever it is I'm looking for. At any rate, thanks for the insight. I have the distinct feeling I'm completely on my own here, and 28 years have proven to me that I can't do anything on my own.
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Gambit37
- Should eat more pies
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Oh boy, you are NOT alone. Read my changing man thread for starters. I don't suffer from your exact problem, but I can relate.
You are already so far you don't even see it. The hardest part of changing is recognising you have a problem and WANTING to change it. You've done that. You've already made the biggest and most profound observation -- things can only get better from here.
I have been doing psychotherapy for four years. It's slow and often painful but in the last few months some quite significant breakthroughs have helped me. What you have to go through is a period of simply seeing when you are repeating the negative behaviours (and that's mostly what these issues are) you want to break. Simply noticing them is the first step. You have to get good at this before you can start to stop them. I'm still at the noticing stage, but have started to also change my behaviours.
You are right when you say that the roots are deeper than you believe. They likely are. It's also likely that it will take time for you to explore this, understand it and move on. You speak of fear -- and that is the only thing holding you (and everyone else in the world) back from moving forward. Fear can stop you loving, but love can stop your fear. You have to want to open up, let the world in -- however painful -- and see where it takes you. You have to feel the fear -- and do it anyway.
It's really tough, I know -- it still is for me very much so. I'm in quite a depression these last few weeks myself. And I'm aware what I've written above might be seen as cliches and buzz-words. They are, but they are also truths. The bottom line is, you CAN beat this. You just need the right support. If you can't afford therapies, see your local doctor to see what's available on social services -- you might be surprised.
Just a final note on one point someone mentioned about anti-depressants. I tried them, but found that although they helped initially, they ultimately made me sick and I took myself off them. They can be a good crutch to help you through a difficult time, but don't come to rely on them.
You are clearly an intelligent, lucid and interesting person. The world needs to see that. Show them. Sure, it's scary and you might not think people want to see, but show them anyway. You'll find most people really do want to look, and in the best way possible.
You are already so far you don't even see it. The hardest part of changing is recognising you have a problem and WANTING to change it. You've done that. You've already made the biggest and most profound observation -- things can only get better from here.
I have been doing psychotherapy for four years. It's slow and often painful but in the last few months some quite significant breakthroughs have helped me. What you have to go through is a period of simply seeing when you are repeating the negative behaviours (and that's mostly what these issues are) you want to break. Simply noticing them is the first step. You have to get good at this before you can start to stop them. I'm still at the noticing stage, but have started to also change my behaviours.
You are right when you say that the roots are deeper than you believe. They likely are. It's also likely that it will take time for you to explore this, understand it and move on. You speak of fear -- and that is the only thing holding you (and everyone else in the world) back from moving forward. Fear can stop you loving, but love can stop your fear. You have to want to open up, let the world in -- however painful -- and see where it takes you. You have to feel the fear -- and do it anyway.
It's really tough, I know -- it still is for me very much so. I'm in quite a depression these last few weeks myself. And I'm aware what I've written above might be seen as cliches and buzz-words. They are, but they are also truths. The bottom line is, you CAN beat this. You just need the right support. If you can't afford therapies, see your local doctor to see what's available on social services -- you might be surprised.
Just a final note on one point someone mentioned about anti-depressants. I tried them, but found that although they helped initially, they ultimately made me sick and I took myself off them. They can be a good crutch to help you through a difficult time, but don't come to rely on them.
You are clearly an intelligent, lucid and interesting person. The world needs to see that. Show them. Sure, it's scary and you might not think people want to see, but show them anyway. You'll find most people really do want to look, and in the best way possible.
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Tom Hatfield
- Ee Master
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Indiana, USA
- Contact:
Thank you, Gambit. What you say doesn't sound like buzzwords at all. Paul used a couple buzzwords himself, but in a context where they sounded quite perfectly reasonable and, more importantly, hopeful.
I have done a couple things over the last month that I never would have considered only six months ago. I gave myself a few social assignments, and I followed through with them, through my mind spun and my body sweat. I proved to myself that what I want is attainable, if I know where to look for it, and if I have the courage to pursue it.
Still, there's that mental lock. Beyond the fear and shroud I may be an amiable person, as I suspect — no, as I know a great many people are. I see people all the time that I would like to approach without any idea how I might approach them. I consider this my curse above all else. Some of my friends are familiar with it. I'll work on it.
Thank you for the kind words, and the inspiration. If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your post into my journal. (I ask because my journal is published online now, and I don't want to infringe on your copyright.)
I have done a couple things over the last month that I never would have considered only six months ago. I gave myself a few social assignments, and I followed through with them, through my mind spun and my body sweat. I proved to myself that what I want is attainable, if I know where to look for it, and if I have the courage to pursue it.
Still, there's that mental lock. Beyond the fear and shroud I may be an amiable person, as I suspect — no, as I know a great many people are. I see people all the time that I would like to approach without any idea how I might approach them. I consider this my curse above all else. Some of my friends are familiar with it. I'll work on it.
Thank you for the kind words, and the inspiration. If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your post into my journal. (I ask because my journal is published online now, and I don't want to infringe on your copyright.)
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cowsmanaut
- Moo Master
- Posts: 4378
- Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:53 am
- Location: canada
for me a lot of life has been like a cold lake. When I need to do something I'm afraid of or unsure of. I jump in and flop around like a crazed maniac, but eventually I adjust... and to be honest, the fear never really went away. I simply just am now more able to handle it.
I mean it may seem like I'm suggesting this in such a casual way, but in reality I get a knotted up stomach and completely on edge. Though I'm pretty good at hiding that mostly. But the concept of just opening your mouth and letting whatever slide out into the conversation is just a really simple concept. Upon which I can not say a lot which makes it sound so casual and unrealistic. I seriously would not have believed me either. It wasn't untill I was completely tired of how things were going that I made the change. As it has been with the rest of my life.. hit rock bottom.. make a change.. go for broke.
I woke up one morning hacking and coughing.. I quit smoking that day never went back.
I did bad job after bad job, every one leading to a dead end and no future. Then I said enough, went to school, with many struggles even after, and now I have a good job.
and every single person I want to talk to.. I need to jump in. I need to swallow the lump and tbe butterflies.. and just talk. The more I do it the less difficult it seems.. but the challenge is always there. And with my observation of life around me.. human interaction etc. I find that a LOT of people have the exact same issue.
often even the loud obnoxious ones have issues of their own. Nearly 98% of people are likley disfunctional in some way or annother. Just only a few brave souls like yourself who decided to speak out and say.. I'm tired of it.
be proud of yourself for that.. and recognise those around you are in much the same boat.
I mean it may seem like I'm suggesting this in such a casual way, but in reality I get a knotted up stomach and completely on edge. Though I'm pretty good at hiding that mostly. But the concept of just opening your mouth and letting whatever slide out into the conversation is just a really simple concept. Upon which I can not say a lot which makes it sound so casual and unrealistic. I seriously would not have believed me either. It wasn't untill I was completely tired of how things were going that I made the change. As it has been with the rest of my life.. hit rock bottom.. make a change.. go for broke.
I woke up one morning hacking and coughing.. I quit smoking that day never went back.
I did bad job after bad job, every one leading to a dead end and no future. Then I said enough, went to school, with many struggles even after, and now I have a good job.
and every single person I want to talk to.. I need to jump in. I need to swallow the lump and tbe butterflies.. and just talk. The more I do it the less difficult it seems.. but the challenge is always there. And with my observation of life around me.. human interaction etc. I find that a LOT of people have the exact same issue.
often even the loud obnoxious ones have issues of their own. Nearly 98% of people are likley disfunctional in some way or annother. Just only a few brave souls like yourself who decided to speak out and say.. I'm tired of it.
be proud of yourself for that.. and recognise those around you are in much the same boat.
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Gambit37
- Should eat more pies
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- Joined: Wed May 31, 2000 1:57 pm
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Yes, absolutely agree with everything there Cows. The fear never goes away, it's what makes us human. Anyone who says they are totally fearless is lying -- they have simply learned how to accept it and do whatever the thing is that they fear anyway. Fear is natural and no-one should be trying to get rid of fear, simply understand it and allow it to help you move forward.
I still have big problems with this. Some days I fear even simple things. Other days, it's not a problem. It's on-going. I can't offer much advice on how to 'conquer' it, but I sure know we're all capable of doing so...
I still have big problems with this. Some days I fear even simple things. Other days, it's not a problem. It's on-going. I can't offer much advice on how to 'conquer' it, but I sure know we're all capable of doing so...
Hehe, I'm like that too! >.<Ameena wrote:I don't normally start conversations with strangers due to the...umm well I won't call it "fear" as such but I can't find a decent word right now...but due to the thingy that they'll just tell me to bog off. However, if they start a conversation with me then I'm normally okay as long as I have some clue as to what to say in response.
I wouldn't call it a problem, though. Alot of people are like that.