A new challenge - or not...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:49 am

I was planning on finishing DM with just one character (Boris, of course) and then transporting him to CSB, since I never completed CSB with only one hero. But at the end of level 10, I got really bored going through DM yet again, so I decided I needed something else. Another challenge, greater than what I had planned... My idea was to go through CSB with only one reincarnated character. So I reincarnated Petal and sent her right into the dungeon, without training in the Prison. I was ready to face some serious problems. My first way would be KU, so I entered there, came out in level 8, and fought my way through some mummies to Mongor. Anyway, now I just arrived at the DDD, and look what a monster cute little Petal has become:

Health: 514
Stamina: 683 (!)
Mana: 231

Strength: 46
Dexterity: 75
Wisdom: 73
Vitality: 68
Anti-Magic: 93
Anti-Fire: 42

Expert Fighter
Artisan Ninja
Expert Priest
LO Master Wizard

I don't think I needed more than two hours for this from scratch. Why do I post this here? If only I knew that... Maybe I just wanted to let you know about my progress, or maybe I am just impressed how fast you can gain levels in CSB. I did expect more of a challenge though, but maybe I will die often once I reach level 1 (I HATE Zytazes!).[/img]

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:43 am

Little update on my game: I just went through level 1 on KU, getting the Dragon Fang (fighting through the Worms was quite exhausting), activating the Wrath of God and throwing the Corbum into the FulYa Pit. Stats are these:

Health: 603
Stamina: 842 (just sick)
Mana: 264

Strength: 57
Dexterity: 77
Wisdom: 75
Vitality: 69
Anti-Magic: 94
Anti-Fire: 43

LO Master Fighter
Adept Ninja
LO Master Priest
UM Master Wizard

Okay, I guess KU is the path where you gain the most experience, but I never would have thought of anything like this.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:53 pm

By using four characters, some of them(esp. the back row) are sometimes idle. It´s all about usage.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:05 pm

Very true Zoooom, but I was still surprised. I just finished my game and didn't have much trouble. But even though I finished the game multiple times before, there were two things I never experienced before. The first one was the Death Row. I always thought it would be impossible to enter, but I read in the forum how to do it. I liked it very much, especially the "water and bread" idea. Also a nice guardian patrolling in front of the cell. The second news to me was on the ROS way as well, in Level 5. After taking the Green Gem, I was ready to track the now fireball-infested corridor back when I found out a new way had opened that I had never seen before. I was even able to return to the starting point there! Just amazing how much stuff is in this game that you may or may not ever find out. And from looking into CSBuild, there are still lots of things in Level 1 that I will never really understand, I guess... Great design for a great game.

Petal turned out to be the most powerful character I have ever had, not level-wise, but stats-wise. This is how she was at the end:

Health: 697
Stamina: 999 (I never managed to get 999 in any stat before)
Mana: 315

Strength: 58
Dexterity: 80
Wisdom: 88
Vitality: 71
Anti-Magic: 98
Anti-Fire: 57

LO Master Fighter
LO Master Ninja
UM Master Priest
EE Master Wizard

Toni Y · Post by **Toni Y** » Wed May 18, 2005 3:36 pm

zoooom wrote:By using four characters, some of them(esp. the back row) are sometimes idle. It´s all about usage.

Yeah, and solo all the exp ends on one char, instead of spread over 2 fighters (for hitting) and 2 mages (for spells)...

Mindstone · Post by **Mindstone** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:04 pm

999 Stamina.........thats incredible man, nice one.
It seems as though CSB is just as easy with just one character. Is it?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:20 pm

As there is more interconnectivity, then carry capacity isn't as big a requirement - I did CSB with one charatcer and found it fine. You might miss the mana/potion casting and full attacks for some fights like against knights, but I odn't think it's a huge handicap

Post by **Ameena** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:08 am

Today I started my fist ever solo run of DM, using Fippy (that's reincarnated Wuuf to you who don't know me well enough

). I got to the start of level 11 before Dad kicked me off so I'll hopefully finish it tonight. That's HoC level 1 so level 11 is the one with the three paths and the Water Elementals.
I'll be taking him through to CSB of course, when I've finished Dm, but don't expect it to take anything less than...ooh...maybe 10 hours

.

Post by **Ameena** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:13 am

Whee, relating to the above post, I've just finished DM solo...was something like six hours 42 mins, therefore about an hour faster than my four-person group. He was something like an Um Fighter and Wizzy (would have been Expert but had Firestaff equipped, obviously), Artisan Priest, and Craftsman Ninja. And somehting like 303 hp, similar stamina, and errrmmm 117 mana or something. Was weird, I noticed when equipping the Firestaff it reduced my maximum mana from 119 to 117 /shrug.
Next up - CSB! But I bet I die about fifty billion times just in the first room

.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:52 am

Time to dig up this ancient thread. The reason is that I finished the game with a reincarnated Petal in RTC, while what I wrote above concerned CSBWin.

RTC is definitely harder, but the game was far from unsolvable. Here is my Petal at the end:

Health: 477
Stamina: 633
Mana: 246

Strength: 58
Dexterity: 70
Wisdom: 81
Vitality: 74
Anti-Magic: 78
Anti-Fire: 57

Expert Fighter
Artisan Ninja
Adept Priest
LO Master Wizard

I have to add that I haven't visited every single place this time. For example, I completely left the Rock Piles and Deth Knights in level 8 of ROS alone. The same is true for the Deth Knights that guard the Executioner on KU or the Screamers that are grown by the Oitus on NETA, so I might have gotten another level or two had I played the game thoroughly. Still, the difference between CSBWin and its experience multipliers and RTC is obvious, but not as extreme as I actually believed it to be before I started playing. Anyway, cool game, and I had a lot of fun this time as well.

ian_scho · Post by **ian_scho** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:10 am

No way, I was reading this very thread last night. Are you watching me Trantor?

What I was searching for was a comparison between the difficulty of CSB and DMII. Not too far from the end of the latter, and would like to know if CSB is going to be a shock to me (do I play DM first and then import the characters, as Lunever suggested?). I already know that its non linear and needs to be played about 5 times to discover all the hidden nooks and crannies.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:39 am

5 times isn't nearly enough to find out everything in CSB. I've played it about 12-15 times now, and there is still a lot of stuff in the final level that I just don't understand, even after looking at it in the editor.

The hard part of CSB is indeed its non-linearity. Sure, it has evil traps and very powerful monsters, but those aren't necessarily harder than those in DM2. The problem is finding your way around. The dungeon seems very chaotic and random when you first enter it, though it isn't. There are certain rules in it, but discovering these will take a lot of time.

Comparing DM2 to CSB, I remember DM2 to be a lot more annoying, at the least the old PC version, because of its respawning monsters. I played DM2 in RTC not too long ago and had the impression that the minions didn't respawn quite as quickly as they did in the PC version, though. But DM2 is still relatively linear. Most of the times, you know where you should go next, or the choices are at least limited. CSB will frustrate you because you will often get lost. Lots of parts of the dungeon are optional, and you usually won't see all of them in one game. Furthermore, it is possible to get from one "section" of the dungeon to another one without really noticing it! So, it is difficult to say. I think CSB can be more overwhelming, as you probably are more clueless about what exactly is going on. But believe me, it is still a very rewarding experience and well worth checking it out. Its design is incredible.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:51 pm

Concerning the high ending stamina:
Fighter characters (high stamina)suck in the end.
While it is a big help in the beginning to have much stamina, the
meagre characters all get very decent stamina values in the end.
It often happened that I wasted stamina points ,because I had 999 already and went up a level(all classes get you some health and stamina).Maxing out a characters in the end phase of a game seems to be done best with wimps.
Plague is a very good example. He/or she shines in all stats, except for stamina and maybe strength. In the end one of the best characters. imho.

RTC is a bit more restrictive on stamina it seems..

Post by **Sophia** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:16 pm

zoooom wrote:Plague is a very good example. He/or she

Plague is female according to the data files..

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:23 pm

And according to the story you started, or am I mis-remembering?

Post by **Sophia** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:43 pm

No, you're correct. I made Plague female in that story because that's what the CSB data said, though!

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:41 am

Sophia, thanks for clarifying the gender question
Well, I like her !