Dungeon Master Forum

It's actually not that hard to define wallsets using the graphical editor. I had a good reason for not doing this, actually, but I don't remember it.

I'll look into it, and either end up doing it, or remember my good reason, I'm sure.

Probably so the programme can remain independant of the version of RTC! We've had about two subtle changes to the wall definition, haven't we so far since WHACK came about?

I never said it was hard, I said I was lazy.

Anyways, WHACK has helped me TREMENDOUSLY! Is there a similar program for floor items and wall items? I guess 3D objects cannot be reliably distorted by a WHACK-like program, but flat ones (horizontal or vertical) should accomodate automation fairly readily. Just wondering.

you can try RTCWM, for pits/stairs/doorframes and other stuff but it's very buggy !
i don't have a lot of time to correct the bugs at the moment because i'm very busy with my own custom dungeon !

Thanks Linflas, I'll be sure to give it a try.

I have noticed that the side0 and side0_alt bitmaps cram the entire wallset bitmap in the picture, which they shouldn't. One should only be able to see the corner of the wall on side0, so I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of the wallset. Using a narrow wallset for the side view in the config file kind of fixes that (side0_alt is based on the wallset flipped horizontally, which, if you have a pattern on the wall, places the middle of the pattern on the away edge of side0_alt.) But then, one has to run whack 3 times: 0nce to get side0 right, once to get side0_alt right, and a third time with the full wallset picture to get all the other side views right.

Also, it appears to me that, with minor modifications, WHACK could easily generate bitmaps for flat flooritems. The main problem with flooritems is the tiling that does not have the same periodicity as the game grid. It may be possible to tile a square picture manually on a 512x256 floor base, if the correspondance was known, and cut the resulting image in tidbits, but it sounds like a pain, and wouldn't include directional views and so on.

Any plans for WHACK08?

Parallax wrote:I have noticed that the side0 and side0_alt bitmaps cram the entire wallset bitmap in the picture, which they shouldn't.

Well, they do display roughly 75% of the side bitmap, but that's how DM does it, too. Have a look at the individual bitmaps-- you'll see that the amount displayed is (as close as I can get to) equal to the amount that WHACK gives you. Remember, also, that due to a perspective anomaly in DM that WHACK can (but doesn't have to) emulate, the side bitmaps are only half as wide as the front ones, anyway.

Parallax wrote:Also, it appears to me that, with minor modifications, WHACK could easily generate bitmaps for flat flooritems.

It's a little harder than that, because WHACK is a sloppily coded hack-job (see, I say this kind of stuff about my own code, too!), so it makes some assumptions that wouldn't be true for flooritems, like that it doesn't matter where the bitmap tiles and that the resulting bitmaps are all going to be the same size. WHACK also requires that the flooritem base bitmap have powers of two as its dimensions, which may or may not work nicely with flooritems of all kinds of strange sizes.

Parallax wrote:Any plans for WHACK08?

Possibly, if something that needs to be added that wouldn't be a major pain to add comes up.

Sophia wrote:Well, they do display roughly 75% of the side bitmap, but that's how DM does it, too.

Actually, I have tried it again using a black bitmap with a one pixel colored border, and the border appears at the close edge of the side0 and side0_alt bitmaps, so I can affirm with confidence that these use the entire bitmap, minus the corners that perspective cuts off. I tried with both narrow and wide side wallsets.

Although that is fine when the side bitmap used is narrow, the effect is very bad when the side bitmap is wide, since roughly only half of it should be visible on each side view. I was indeed wrong earlier in affirming that only 1/3 to 1/2 of the front view should be visible. Calculations done, it is actually slightly more than 1/2 of the front view, although considering that wallitems do not show on the side0 views, less is more, really.

So, to summarize, I maintain that too much of a wide side wallset is shown on side0 and side0_alt. Narrow side wallsets are actually OK.

For flooritems, it's OK, I'll see if I can find the correspondance to tile the 512x256 bitmap so it comes out right. I'll post it here if I manage.

Parallax wrote:Although that is fine when the side bitmap used is narrow, the effect is very bad when the side bitmap is wide

I'd believe this. The perspective in DM is weird: the front views are twice as wide as the side views. Counting bricks tells the story very quickly. So, trying to make proper side views using the DM perspective is probably going to look a bit ugly.

Did you know you already can specify a half-wide bitmap as a base for rendering the side views while still using a full-wide bitmap as a base for the front views? (using SideWall= in the .ini file)

If it'd help, it'd be fairly quick and easy to add an option to specify an alternate bitmap for side0 only.

Well, more options are always nice.

How quick and easy would it be to add an option to use only the right-hand-side half of the wallset_side bitmap for side0, and only the left-hand side half flipped horizontally of wallset_side for side0_alt?

You'll have your own line in the credits when my custom dungeon is done regardless, I promise.

Edit: And yes, I know about using different bitmaps for front and side views. It's actually how I work around the problem right now, doing manually what I describe in my request above.

Unfortunately, WHACK development will most likely not continue.

Sorry for the late reply.

linflas wrote:you can try RTCWM, for pits/stairs/doorframes and other stuff but it's very buggy !
i don't have a lot of time to correct the bugs at the moment because i'm very busy with my own custom dungeon !

Thanks Linflas.

Just made a couple wall sets. Cool little program.

Dead Link:
http://www.ojnk.net/dm/whack07.zip

You should look at the rest of the forum concerning Whack, Sophia discontinued it for RTC quite some time ago.

Is WHACK 07 still available? Or could some kind soul send it me?!

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 53&t=27294

I stopped updating it for RTC a while ago, but an RTC wallset and a DSB ext wallset are essentially identical, so you should no problems using the output in whatever program. (Except CSBwin, that's not happening)

Cheers me dears, I can have a good whack tonight now.

I remember using an early version to make graphics for CSBWin - just had to resize, and cut and paste carefully. Worked well, neat programme!

Bizarre, or I am being thick - keeps saying 'can't find wall', even though it is there, as a BMP, in the directory and correctly sized.

PaulH wrote:Bizarre, or I am being thick

I'm not sure. By default, it looks for a "wallset.bmp" in the same directory as WHACK, but check your whack.ini to make sure it's looking for the right thing in the right place.

If it's actually there, the only other thing I can think of is that Allegro (the graphics library that I use for WHACK and DSB) reports a bitmap that it was unable to load the same as one that it can't find, so maybe you're using some sort of strange BMP format that it doesn't know what to do with. I've noticed it has trouble with OS/2 bitmaps, some 16 color bitmaps, and some other weirdness, so you could try re-saving it in MS Paint or something.

It was a strange bitmap lol. I had saved it has a 256 colour bmp, but somehow it got corrupted and then wouldn't load in Paint Shop. All sorted now, and working well! Many thanks!

Pity RTC has the flip bug, as the left walls don't alternate - need to tweak the results.

Flip bug? Never seen that.

As entered from Whack, the side walls do not alternate - front 2 does, and shouldn't.

Anyway, can get over it - currently wondering around the moon!

Oh right. I use Linflas's tool, dunno if that works the same, though you have to manually flip the FRONT ALTs in your graphics package as RTC expects both the standard and ALT image to be on the same side: the engine then does the flipping.

PaulH wrote:As entered from Whack, the side walls do not alternate - front 2 does, and shouldn't.

I still don't understand what you mean. If by "alternate" you mean the image is flipped, then none of the front images are flipped by WHACK. The perspective view walls are flipped in the "alt" views. This is exactly what DSB needs and it used to work fine in RTC as well, though I haven't tested it in RTC in years, so I don't know.

Can you show me what the program generates and what you expected to be generated?

Actually, yeah, the more I re-read paul's post, the more I'm confused. Sample please!

the whole "distance 2" view is flipped by the engine, which means that left2 and right2 must be exchanged to fit properly with the flipped front2 bitmap.
i don't remember if RTCWM do that internally or not..

All I do is take the front bitmaps output by RTCWM and flip the RIGHT HAND images ONLY. RTC is happy then.

Alternate download link HERE

It contain missing alleg42.dll file and two bitmaps of floor and wall with RTC walls size ready to convert, with correct name (wallset.bmp not wall.bmp like point readme) Graphic XY position:

[1 scaling medium]
floor 0x132 (size 448x140)
roof 0x0 (size 448x58)

(walls)

front1 64x18
front2 120x40
front3 148x50
left1 0x18
left2 0x40
left3 0x50
side0 0x0
side1 64x18
side2 120x40
side3 148x50
far 0x50

Just find texture, copy/paste to bmp files and run exe, my favourite wallmaker