About to play DM for first time since 88 - will need advice

[Sophia]

Just be glad you're not playing DSB.

In DSB, they're aware that they're non-material and spells will pass right through their own kind. So if you have two groups of them lined up, the back group will happily take potshots at you through the front group.

[lord soth 75]

Running for my life!! Master Key and The Fire staff Tomb.Marathon 4 hour session on DM.

Adventure Log#8

Level 12
The frustration continued.I spent the best part of an hour trying to explore the secret corridor that was seemingly infested by those Spell Vine creatures.
Eventually found my way to a door,and upon opening it was greeted by 2 freakin Death Knights!!! This is taking the piss!!
Managed to defeat the 2 knights in a lengthy battle (Was confused as to why Staam couldn't hit the knights,then i discovered that his icon was facing sideways )
Found a skeleton key on the floor. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT JUST FOR A SKELETON KEY???

Now i had to get back to the main area and pray that the corridor wasn't infested by Spell vines again.
Thankfully,i didnt encounter any in the secret area,but as soon as i entered the main corridor i was blasted in the back by 2 of the swines.Luckily i ran around the corner and healed my nearly dead party.The vines could not follow me around the corner so i was finally safe.

Headed back over to the other side of this dungeon level,and after awhile ran into more of the giant spiders,took a right turn and found myself in another large area,and my heart stopped dead as i noticed spell vines lurking at the end of this room.Ran around looking for an exit and found one (taking fireball damage from a spell vine in the process).
Ran for my life down a corridoor (praying that there wouldnt be any Vines in front of me), Found a Master Key in an alcove , then ran down another longish corridoor where i saw the comforting sight of a Skeleton key lock. Opened the skeletal staircase,retreated back up to my base on level 9. THANK GOD THAT DAMN LEVEL IS OVER.

Descended the skeleton stairs and tried the Master key on the red lock....No luck.

Tomb Of The Firestaff reprised
Back up to level 7.And things progressed quite nicely here.Ruby key opened one of the locked doors,which led me to a Turqoise key.Used the key on a locked door and found a new sword that fires lightning bolts.
Found another RA key,and shortly afterwards found another key in a secret area called 'Wing Key'
Battled against a Stone golem (Took it down using fireballs.It took ages) Found another new weapon,a sword called 'The Inquisitor'.
After a half hour or so of wandering around exploring,i found the Firestaff!! It was guarded by stone golems,but i managed to use the master key,swipe it,and escape without them even moving.

Phew!
So...im confused as to what to do from here.I guess i have to go back to level 12 and find the stairs down to level 13.

[beowuuf]

You found the winged key! If you haven't read the manual recently, you perhaps won't know that IR is supposed to represent the wings of a bird?

Hint - you can finally discover what Trantor was going on about, and relise the full potential of the firestaff


Edit: Knowing how much keys have been evil to you, you do still need one more key - it's on the floor of the place outside the door you need the key for. Evilly, it's a grey key, and there might be something on top of it.


So clsoe to the end now - good luck!

[lord soth 75]

You found the winged key! If you haven't read the manual recently, you perhaps won't know that IR is supposed to represent the wings of a bird?

Hint - you can finally discover what Trantor was going on about, and relise the full potential of the firestaff


Edit: Knowing how much keys have been evil to you, you do still need one more key - it's on the floor of the place outside the door you need the key for. Evilly, it's a grey key, and there might be something on top of it.


So clsoe to the end now - good luck!

Thanks beowuuf.
Do i go to level 13 now? I don't recall finding the stairs down to level 13.The thought of going back to level 12 to find stairs fills me with dread.
Are the stairs to level 13 on the east or southern side of level 12?

[beowuuf]

Levle 13 is whege you opened the skeleton key part. Or if you opened that on level 12, go back to where you found the master key and take the opposite junction of the t-junction.

And personally, I would go to the bottom of the skeleton key stairwell and open the lock on level 14, then come back to level 13.

[Jan]

Congratulations on that good progress!

Note that now you have two central Stairwells, one with the Skull locks and the second one leading from the place where you found the Winged key; the stairwells are interconnected on the ghost level. So you have three options of how to continue (two stairwells and the normal stairs down from the alcove where the Master key was found).

Personally, in accordance with BW, I'd suggest trying to finally open the "Red" lock.

[lord soth 75]

Levle 13 is whege you opened the skeleton key part. Or if you opened that on level 12, go back to where you found the master key and take the opposite junction of the t-junction.

And personally, I would go to the bottom of the skeleton key stairwell and open the lock on level 14, then come back to level 13.

Ahhh,yes.that explains why i missed the stairs to level 13.
It was when the spell vines were chasing me,I found the skeleton key lock and just escaped.

Im just about to begin playing,so i'll log back in later tonight and let you all know how iv gone on.

[Ameena]

Yaaay, you finally got the best sword - the Inquisitor is the one that's my favourite . And yaaaay you finally got the Firestaff . These days I keep that last Skeleton Key to unlock the stairs on Level 13, since I've no desire to get back to Level 12 and there are no more Skeleton keys now - there's one too few to open all the stairs. But it's okay - Level 13 isn't too big. Nor is Level 14.
There's a bunch of scrolls in alcoves on Level 7 giving you hints about how to finish the game. If you haven't read the backstory in the manual then you probably won't have any clue but you're pretty close now to finishing the game .

[lord soth 75]

Red Lock.Red Dragon.Red Mist

Adventure Log#9

Very,very frustrating session on DM tonight.

Took beowuff's advice and ignored the stairs to level 13.Headed for the skeleton stairwell,and went all the way down to the red keyhole at the bottom.
Finally,it was time to find out what was behind that thing.Used the winged key,and the wall behind me opened up.
After negotiating a winding corridor i discovered a switch,which opened the wall into a much larger chamber.
I soon discovered why the chamber was so big.

A Dragons lair!! I gotta say,the sight of that red dragon in the background lumbering towards my party was visually one of this fantastic games highlights.
Took me absolutely ages to defeat this red dragon.Used a side stepping technique to attack the beast mostly from behind.The great beast only managed to hit me once during the entire battle (A fireball attack).

With the Dragon slain,i searched the lair,and found a few gems and coins,along with a crown (But,i dont know if it was a magic item or not).
Found a key buried underneath a pile of ash on the floor.
Located the resting place of the power gem (But couldn't remember what i had to do to get the gem)

I ended up going back up to level 7 in order to re-read the scrolls in the wizards lab.Got it, Zo-kath-Ra.
Back down to level 14.Used the spell to free the gem and to complete the Firestaff.

Couldn't find any stairs down to level 15,so i went to level 13.
...And the frustration began. (Nearly 2 hours worth of frustration i should add)

Some questions.
1.What 'exactly' am i supposed to be doing on this level?
(Because there is Devil like creatures that keep destroying my party with fireballs,and im not sure if they re-spawn or not.Do i have to kill the Devils?)
2.There is another creature in this room.A grey wizard or something that keeps lobbing fireballs as well.
3.I tried using the firestaff,but all it did was shoot poison bolts,and yellow beams (like a cage)

Im not sure what is going on.
I retried this section about 30 times,and kept getting blown up by fireballs.
I saved my game on level 13,because the skeleton stairs arent there since i put the gem in the firestaff.

[beowuuf]

Ahhhh, forgot to warn you regarding the game locking you in to the end levels when you have the compelted firestaff.


The devils don't respawn (though the black flames around do), so if you can wipe them out you will have more room to move. The firestaff gives anyone who holds it two full levels in everything, so boosting spells and so on. The invoke gives a random spell infinitely, although the effects will take mana and be bigger if you have mana.


The main purpose is to trap Lord Chaos - the main wizard - in a flux cage and then fuse him. To do that, you need to build the flux cage using the fluxcage effects to form the four walls around him (or if you can trap him against a physical wall, then you will need less walls of the fluxcage). Then use the fuse option.

Despite being the end bad guy, Lord Chaos is susceptable to fear effects like calm and branish. However, he is immune to spells and melee weapons.

[lord soth 75]

@ beowuuf

Thanks man.
Im going to try and destroy the devils first.I think if i stay out of the main chamber,and fight them at range with fireballs i should be ok.

The speed of the devil fireballs is absurd,Much like the Beholders and Spell vines There seems ZERO way of escaping them,and the fire shields i have up dont seem to make much difference.

[Jan]

I always solve this level in a rather chaotic manner. Grab the Firestaff, save my game and then enter the room running around randomly, trying to find Lord Chaos, casting the cages all over the place frantically. Sooner or later Lord Chaos gets caught. I never bother defeating the Fires and the Demons, it's just a waste of time.

[beowuuf]

I usually hoverin the corridor, using fear effects to push Chaos away and then blast the demons. So much easier to not have them around. I suspect in RTC wit hthe ability to throw fireballs, it becomes mandatory to have that space. There is a small 2x2 room at ther top left of the hall as you look in to it from one of the corridors, so if you can make it there you can gain respit from the demons. Though Chaos can teleport in there so have something with calm/brandish available!

In the bottom right of the hall is a set of 1x1 alcoves. It's advantageous to get Chaos to tht area - no black flames/ pits around, space to move, and if you can push chaos in to one of the 1x1 areas, you only need one fluxcage wall!

[Jan]

There is a small 2x2 room at ther top left of the hall as you look in to it from one of the corridors, so if you can make it there you can gain respit from the demons. Though Chaos can teleport in there so have something with calm/brandish available!

I think that if he teleports in, he causes himself a lot of trouble.

Spoiler

Because it's 2x2 only, you should be able to cast only two cages in the two remaining tiles inside the room and then fuse him. So basically all you have to do is go into this room and have a nap. When LC appears, he wakes you up, you cast two cages and fuse him. I think.

It definitely worked to me in CSBWin, but perhaps he's able to do some miracles in RTC.

The speed of the devil fireballs is absurd,Much like the Beholders and Spell vines

The fireballs in RTC are really painful. That's also why I use CSBWin.

Took me absolutely ages to defeat this red dragon.Used a side stepping technique to attack the beast mostly from behind.

The Dragon is really strong but his problem is that he's so slow. So you can basically "dance" him to death without him being able to hit you. Poor old fellow.

Used the winged key,and the wall behind me opened up.
After negotiating a winding corridor i discovered a switch,which opened the wall into a much larger chamber.
I soon discovered why the chamber was so big.
A Dragons lair!!

Now you know what part of The Hobbit was in my mind when talking about the "Red" lock. If only there was a thrush around - and the scene would be complete.

[beowuuf]

Sadly for the 2x2 or 3x2 room, there is one tiny flaw - doors don't count Though still easier than an open room with flames around


And yeah, for the dragon, didn't want to spoil it and point out thigns like Fury, and all the later consumeable magical items are perfect to use against him to drain his healtyh. You can also use fear effects on the dragon, so at first I didn'#t realise the dragon was killable! I trapped him in the VI altar room for the longest time when I first played.

[Jan]

there is one tiny flaw

*hangs head*

[beowuuf]

But since you've completed it, it's not a huge flaw!

[Ameena]

Hehe, see why I suggested reading the backstory - it at least tells you a bit about Lord Chaos and stuff, plus the notes in the Grey Lord's lab give hints about what to do with him and the Firestaff and stuff .
The Dragon is probably the most fun fight for me - I just do the step-dane and he goes down pretty quickly from mass stabbings with the Inquisitor and Delta Blade, plus some quick-swapping to the Firestaff (I only play as a duo) to zap his arse with a random spell every now and then. I though the completed Firestaff only gave +2 Wizard levels, not +2 to all levels? Well, anyway, I don't use it much. And the Dragon is about the only mob in the whole game I get to use the Inquisitor on .
The Demons on level 13 are kind of annoying - if I have some of those wandering around close by when I'm trying to get Chaos, it can be annoying. A couple of Mon-Fireballs normally sorts 'em out though . Fire Elementals I can just ignore since I don't really step near them. Then I just find a space and hang around in it till Chaos comes along, putting up four Fluxcages around myself (didn't know I could use a wall until some time after joining this forum ) and waiting for him to wander along - if you step back out of the cage, he always seems to step in toward you. then just Fuse him before he has a chance to one-shot you with something .
And then you can move on to CSB, ohhh this will be much fun .

[lord soth 75]

24 Years in the making.I FINALLY beat DM!!!!


First of all.I gotta say a big THANK YOU!!! to all of you guys who have given me advice,hints,and tips over the last week or so.
beowuuf.jan and Ameena in particular. Cheers guys!!
This forum is a fantastic community,and i think im going to stick around here (even though i have completed this game)

I can honestly say,i haven't had as much fun playing a game for a loooong time,as i have over the last week playing this 25 year old video game.

I defeated Lord Chaos about an hour ago.Trapped him in an alcove,and used 1 fluxcage/fuse to banish him.I took out the devils before attempting to face Chaos.

Query's
I kinda felt sad as the credits rolled.I didnt want the game to end.And that leads to a query i have
I noticed a dungeon editor as part of the rtc version i have on my laptop.Is it possible to add more levels to the DM game (effectively moving levels 13 and 14 )
EG-Creating 10 more levels,and moving levels 13 and 14 underneath them. (i hope that makes sense)
Seems such a shame for the game to end right as you get your hands on those kick ass weapons.

[beowuuf]

Congratulations!

I'm not sure if you can insert levels, but you can certainly copy the levels lower and then remake the above levels to your liking.

[lord soth 75]

How do i play custom dungeons?

I have noticed something here on this RTC called 'The Zoo'

Do i have to download peoples custom dungeons to the rtc on my laptop?

Im completely clueless when it comes to computer matters

[beowuuf]

Yep, in the custom dungeons forum there are links to all the dungeons (there is a thread for it, the RTC dungeons are about 2/3s of the way down. You put the .rtc files in to the modules folder of the RTC folder. After that, click on the different titles to play. Simple as that!

The Zoo is just a sample dungeon in RTC showing off all the monsters,. There are also a few sample dungeons showing new effects and so on to start you off on editing if you so desire

[Jan]

Congratulations on finishing the game! Well done!

Now, before you venture into the realm of custom dungeons, you should go and play CSB (Chaos Strikes Back)! It uses basically the same system, engine and graphics, but is a zillion times harder! If you don't use any walkthroughs and maps, it should entertain you for a couple of years.

Re custom dungeons: There's a complete and up-to-date list (courtesy mostly of Beowuuf) at http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 31&t=23916 - you can download virtually dozens of them. For RTC: download the file, unzip it and put it into the Modules directory (under RTC). Run RTC, select the dungeon from the list (its name on the list might be slightly different than that of the file), and start playing. It's that easy!

Note that there's a "New!" symbol for the most recent dungeons, and you can always browse the Custom dungeon section of these forums (http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31) to find what dungeons are currently most popular. You can also create your own dungeons or manipulate the original ones (DM, CSB) with the RTC Editor.

EDIT: Damn, BW was faster again! I hope I wasn't too wrong this time in my reply.

[Ameena]

Yaaaay, gratz on finishing DM . Now you really have to play CSB, go on, you know you want to . I'm looking forward to seeing your progress reports as you slowly claw your way through it - I'm sure it's bound to be fun, based on how you did at DM . I can give you some encouragement - those nasty horrible Beholders, big yellow blobs with zillions of eyes? There's none of those in CSB. And no Spell Vines either . And no Purple Worms. But there are Screamers for you to chop up into little yummy slices .

[lord soth 75]

Which custom dungeon would you recommend i should try first? Bearing in mind that i prefer linear dungeons with lots of monsters rather than puzzles.


Re-Chaos Strikes Back
Its on this RTC on my laptop (along with DM2).Im not sure how to import my DM heroes into it though.
I remember reading reviews of CSB back in the day,and the game sounded brutally difficult.A friend of mine played it on Amiga,and told me that it seemed un-mappable,and that it didn't make any sense.He told me it was difficult for all the wrong reasons,and that he was disappointed in it.
I actually played a bit of DM2 on a friends computer during the mid 90's,and i absolutely hated the silly looking cartoon esque graphics.It looked more like Shining in the darkness than a sequel to DM.

Im intrigued by the dungeon editor thing.Im definitely going to have a play around with that (Even though i havent got a clue how to use it)

[Ameena]

To move your DM chars (or indeed, any others) into CSB (and I just loaded it up to check I was remembering it right )- all you do is load up CSB so you get the dungeon entrance, then click on the scroll in the bottom-right corner. This brings up a new menu - select "Make New Adventure" and you should be taken to a screen with all champions you've got saved (from any RTC dungeon, I believe, not just Original DM). Just select the ones you want to use from there - you can also change their portraits if you wish. Everything about the characters will be as it was the last time they were saved, I think, though obviously inventory gets wiped - imagine starting a new dungeon with the Firestaff equipped, lol .
You can also just start CSB by entering the dungeon via the main doors like you did with DM, and recruiting a new party. Personally, though, I prefer to use the team that got me through DM and that I've become attached to and all that .
Yes, CSB is hard. Yes, it seems confusing - it's Chaos, after all! But there is a structure to the dungeon - you just have to figure it out. And you've got the rest of us here to give hints and stuff, haven't you? We all got through it back in the day, when there was no handy Internet and half of us probably didn't even have any kind of guidebook (me and my dad certainly didn't ).
The RTC version of DM2 isn't really much like the original (no minion maps and I'm pretty sure stuff isn't smoothly animated as it was in the original version) so I prefer to play the "proper" version that I still have on disk. But nevermind DM2 for now - give CSB a go, at least. You might find you like it!
Dungeon editing, meanwhile (at least in RTC), is easy enough to get the basics. It's just some of the more complex mechanics can be a bit, erm...well, I found it really complicated and kept messing it up and stuff, but those people who can be arsed to figure it out properly and actually do stuff can put together some pretty good mechanics and stuff .

[lord soth 75]

@ Ameena

Re-Dungeon Editing tool on RTC.

Is there a thread on this forum that teaches the absolute basics of using the RTC dungeon editor? Kind of a "Complete idiots guide to using RTC dungeon Editor"
Iv just had a look at it (the Editor),and i didn't really know where to start.

Lets say for example,that i create a very simple test dungeon filled with a few monsters,How do i then PLAY or test what i have just created?
Should i create a thread asking these questions in the custom dungeons section of the forum?


Re-Chaos Strikes Back
I might give it a go.
Its notorious reputation kinda puts me off playing it tbh.

[Gambit37]

@Lord Soth: There's a whole section dedicated to RTC, go to the main forum page and scroll down. Mainly look in the Editing sub-forum. Also read the readme.txt file that comes with the game, and the editing.txt file for how to play your dungeons. RTC has been in dev for over 10 years and there's massive amounts of info here, but I think it's fair to say that the few regulars still here who used RTC no longer have the time to answer the same questions again. Sorry about that, but rest assured most basic questions are already answered in those forums -- you'll just need to do a fair bit of reading...

Also, read the thread called "RTC Editing Wiki" -- this will take you to an external Wiki page, with tons of editing info on it...

[Ameena]

You could always at least start CSB, and if you don't like it then you're not exactly obligated to continue . It's all good, chaotic, death-ridden fun .
As for editing, there is a text file somewhere that gives the basics about editing. To test your created dungeon, you need to open the Config file and add a line that's something like...

COMPILE RTC/Modules/Yourdungeonname.txt

...where the big space after "COMPILE" is a tab, not a load of spaces. And obviously replace "Yourdungeonname" with...well, your dungeon name . RTC will then attempt to compile the text file into a dungeon when you load it up, and give you a list of any errors it's found (which I think then get put into an automatically-generated text file for your reference). You should then find yourself at the entrance of your new dungeon - just open the doors to start playing it and after the door-opening animation has finished you'll find yourself in whatever spot you put the "Party Import" tile in the editor. As long as the "Compile" line remains in the Config file, RTC will error-check and auto-load your dungeon every time you boot it up. If there were no significant errors detected on compilation, RTC will also auto-create the .rtc version of your file, which is what you'd send to other people to put into their Modules folder in order to play it (since the .txt version is the one that can be edited, whereas the .rtc version can't).
I think there may be a few threads in the "RTC Editing" section of the forum with some info, however since GG stopped developing RTC, some stuff may still not work and stuff. But I think any basic stuff should be fine. If you can't find info on what you want, just ask .

[lord soth 75]

@ Ameena

Lol!! I dont even know what a Config File is Guess iv got a lot of research to do.
*Btw.Iv decided to have a crack at CSB. (Im going to start a thread)


@ Gambit37
Thanks for the info.
I'll have a look through those threads and see if i can make sense of it all.
What i really want to do is to add more levels to the original version of DM on RTC.
I want to add 5 or 6 new levels prior to the skeletal staircase thing on level 8.
Also want to add more hit points to the creatures on the earlier levels of the dungeon.